<jeanne> scribe: jeanne
<Rachael> scribe: Rachael
<jeanne> Chuck: We didn't get to all we wanted to. We addressed some content, but didn't get to tests or techniques
<scribe> scribe: jeanne
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: we had a robust
discussion on Motivate and Reward.
... strong opinions that were divergent.
... what does it mean to motivate and what does it mean to
reward?
... what does reward mean, and how could Silver offer rewards
to organizations
<CharlesHall> The Guidelines motivate organizations to go beyond minimal accessibility requirements by providing a scoring system that rewards organizations which demonstrate a greater effort to improve accessibility.
<CharlesHall> we need to modify this requirement
Charles: We have to work on the requirement itself in order to write the measurement
LInks to MInutes and summaries <- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/2019_September_16-20_in_Fukuoka,_Japan#Minutes
<Rachael> scribe: Rachael
Cyborg: Impressed with how much
was done with the template. I think that part is doable.
... in terms of the tests and methods, since we haven't had a
chance to test out what we are developing. 1.1.1 is doable but
color has a different series of challenges.
... hopefully Chuck can talk to whether we can have color ready
by the end of November.
Chuck: I am unfamiliar with this
process having not gone through the chartering as a participant
of W3C. Is it possible to make a correction? Or is it too
arduous? To Cyborg, There is one milestone whihc we haven't hit
which is bugging me. I'd like to get more of Andrew's math in
the methods before committing to geting Color contrast in
there.
... I think there will be a lot of review and conversation in
the group. It may not be the best candidate.
... because of feedback.
Jeanne: I'd like to clarify that
the first public working draft. If you look at the first public
working draft of WCAG, it isn't even a page long. Boilerplate,
a few goals, and the title Conformance.
... strategically it is better to publish something drafty on
time than it is to change the date.
... from my point of view, I'd like to get color contrast in,
as much as is done, becuase it takes the existing guidance nad
moves it forward.
... getting Andy's math in is a high priority. Then we get
valuable feedback.
Chuck: I speculate there will be much
Jeanne: Some of it may be really good.
<Zakim> CharlesHall, you wanted to discuss a comment on user / functional needs in content migration
<Chuck> ach Chu
<CharlesHall> People may have [with/without/who can/cannot] [action or function] due to: human factors (like [example of disability]); technical factors (like [example]); or contextual factors (like [example]).
Charles: How do we handle content migrationg wiht regards to functional needs?
<CharlesHall> sounds like my mic is failing
<CharlesHall> will type
<CharlesHall> there was a lot of hesitation around using the EN functional needs wording
Jeanne: I do like the idea of content migration in regards to functional needs. Maybe what we put in this draft is just the functional needs and don't try to kill ourselves with the methods
<CharlesHall> there was also a lot of interest in naming specific disabilities within the human factors parenthetical examples
<CharlesHall> so we need to finalize the editorial format while we continue the migration
Rachael: I like the idea of focusing on functional needs but would like to see a few methods for examples. Can we put something for COGA in to demonstrate how they fit?
Jeanne: Set up a time to discuss.
Cyborg: Few thoughts: That conversation with Rachael and yourself to pull out some functional needs based on an SC, I would like to participate.
<jeanne> Cyborg: 1) pull out functional needs for a COGA sample SC
<jeanne> ... 2) It makes sense to put functional needs in the FPWD
Cyborg: Focusing on the functional needs for the first working draft makes sense to me. You mentioned methods but I think we are looking at tests first.
<jeanne> ... 3) Tests: What are the list of potential tests to meet user needs, what are their pros and cons? Do they still allow flexibility of opportunity?
<CharlesHall> note on tests: there are 2 fundamental types: testing the method (implementation); and testing having met the human functional need
Jeanne: I agree. Tests are a part
of methods. When I say methods, I include tests. I agree with
Rachael that we should have 1 or 2 in at least draft
form.
... it may not be as comprehensive as you and Chuck are
proposing but we'd at least have some to show where we are
going
KimD: I think at TPAC I heard
Michael say if we had 3-4 SC equivilents ready to go that would
be enough. We could focus on 1 that is similar, 1 that is
familiar but expanded, and 1 that is completely new.
... that will show an example of each. It can be drafty so that
may be helpful to focus down to 3. and maybe an extra.
+1
<CharlesHall> +1 for draftiness
Jeanne: We have heading which Jan
and I worked on. Its gone through the earliest version of hte
process. We'd need to update the functional needs to where we
are currently. It has tests, methods and a guideline.
... color contrast is in progress and if it could get to 1-2
methods that would be illustrative, especially if 1 method was
current and 1 was Andy's.
... then we could do either COGA or low vision proposal as a
new one.
<Cyborg> and 1.1.1 also possible
<Cyborg> (Makoto, Jenn and me)
Jeanne: Pause, stop, hide is also in darft form.
Kim: It would be helpful to know what we are aiming to put in first draft.
<Cyborg> what was Bruce Bailey working on again?
Jeanne: That was the universe of
what is in progress that is fairly well along.
... Bruce was working on audio description but didn't get past
hte needs. I'm not sure they match up with the way we're doing
functional needs now.
<Cyborg> 1.1.1
Jeanne: are there any others?
<Jan> I think we should target one COGA and one LV in addition to at least 2 that we are currently working on.
<CharlesHall> again, any of those that are far along are still in need of editorial review for how needs are written
<Cyborg> sorry, i should add that with 1.1.1, we are expanding to look at cognitive needs
<Zakim> KimD, you wanted to ask if we should do 3 - one that is largely the same, one that is color, one that is new?
<CharlesHall> +1 to beyond true/false. we need a type of test for the human need in addition to the test for implementation method
Chuck: Cyborg inspired me regarding the tests. My questions are meant to broad but they are going to be color contrast centric. In the case of Andrew's new math, it lends itself to true/false testing. Can we include some tests that are beyond true/false since WCAG's current is true/false to demonstrate what Silver is about?
Jeanne: I wouldn't worry about
that for color contrast. I think you're demonstrating a lot of
other new things.
... Language of page has some of the new tests.
<Cyborg> comment on what Jeanne is saying now...
<CharlesHall> i don’t agree with color being simply a math test.
Cyborg: I've had the opportunity to talk with Andy about this concept. Andy was super keen at looking at other test and felt limited by pass/fail. He was immediately liking the idea of scale testing. Can you hold conclusion on that? I don't think that his tests will be true/false so much as he felt he was required to do true/false for 2.x
Jeanne: I was just trying to help
you prioritize, not restrict you. If you have a test and you
can get it done in 6 weeks, great. But I think we have some
simple things that can be done in 6 weeks that could be a
higher priority.
... after we publish, we update every 2 months so if you don't
make the 6 weeks, we have regular opportunity to add to what is
there.
Cyborg: I think that Andy's is already working this for 2.x and so he can bring it over for the first draft of Silver.
Chuck: Yay
<Jan> I can work on one for Low Vision
Jeanne: Jan made an earlier comment about thinking 2 new ones would be ideal. 1 COGA and 1 Low Vision. Rachael, Jeanne and Cyborg will work on COGA. Who can work on one for low vision?
Cyborg: In terms of low vision, are we talking about something new or an exisitng criteria that doesn't adequately scope? My impression is that there is a number of current that don't adequately scope.
Jeanne: We asked each of the
taskforces to give us 2 proposals that didn't get into WCAG. We
have 2 from COGA and 2 from low vision. We need to take what
they wrote and translate it into our info archecture,
functional needs, and process. That is a fair amount of
work.
... I think we should honor their work by doing the ones they
gave us.
... just for this one.
Cyborg: In 1.1.1 we've been trying to expand to COGA and somewhat low vision. With color we've been looking at many vision perception issues. What are the 4?
Jeanne: They are in the folder in the google drive. Draft silver content
<jeanne> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1uU3_rH7hwHm01OM8GTluz4tn0ed1V2Gm
<jeanne> Clear Words https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pqh2BYGS_7banTivDvuagU9F6-xfd2QaJc0Q3g1TkxE
<jeanne> Enable APIs https://drive.google.com/open?id=1imkVmNUXwzs1ZbfCnuraWOyR8cZ3GaPXFHfAmzRzwwg
Jeanne: Will add Low vision items.
Jan: Clear words will be more difficult.
Jeanne: COGA can guide.
Rachael: I will circle back with Lisa and group.
Jeanne: Lets hold off on picking new ones. We need to do some research. I will send an email to the group with links. Please take time to read and think about them and we can discuss on Friday. What two or three exisiting that we have do we want to focus on?
Cyborg: Options are color, headings, 1.1.1, Pause stop hide, and Language in Page
<KimD> +1 to including browsers and others
<Cyborg> and audio description
Jeanne: Browsers and audio description is important to many groups. What others? I would like to include color. Cyborg and Chuck - do you agree to put in whatever you have done?
<KimD> +1 to color because it's great to have a more comprehensive approach
Chuck: I feel better about being able to deliver knowing Andy and Cyborg have been working on it. Lets do it.
Jeanne: I think this shows well
what Silver can do
... any thoughts on another one? I think we should do one more.
Language of page is so simple people won't take it
seriously.
Cyborg: What was the ones we were looking at when we were talking earlier? Timing was one of them. Headers?
<Cyborg> timing?
Jeanne: Timing.
Cyborg: There was another one. What was it?
<Cyborg> sensory characteristics
Cyborg: what about name, role, value?
<Cyborg> name, role, value
Jeanne: That is a really hard
one.
... I think that will just be a method
... is that one you worked on last week?
<Cyborg> and any other come out of conversation with Shawn re: migration?
Jeanne: that came from original
prototyping.
... That was an example of a really hard one. We've since
decided that it will be a method.
Cyborg: Are there any others that came out of the Shawn conversation as being a priority?
Chuck: I don't remember any others that would be a good candidate.
Jeanne: Lets look at the functional needs that are done and see if there are any there that would be better candidates.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Present: jeanne Cyborg Rachael Chuck CharlesHall KimD Jan Regrets: Shawn Bruce Found Scribe: jeanne Found Scribe: Rachael Inferring ScribeNick: Rachael Found Scribe: jeanne Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne Found Scribe: Rachael Inferring ScribeNick: Rachael Scribes: jeanne, Rachael ScribeNicks: Rachael, jeanne Found Date: 24 Sep 2019 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]