IRC log of aria-apg on 2019-09-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:51:18 [RRSAgent]
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- 17:51:18 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/24-aria-apg-irc
- 17:51:20 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 17:51:20 [Zakim]
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- Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
- 17:51:22 [trackbot]
- Date: 24 September 2019
- 17:53:34 [carmacleod]
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- 17:55:50 [MarkMccarthy]
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- 17:58:23 [Dorothy]
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- 18:00:58 [Matt_King]
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- 18:01:02 [jongund]
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- 18:01:17 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make log public
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- 18:01:45 [Jemma_]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:01:45 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/24-aria-apg-minutes.html Jemma_
- 18:01:47 [Matt_King]
- MEETING: September 24, 2019 Authoring Practices Taskforce Meeting
- 18:01:57 [Matt_King]
- CHAIR: Matt King
- 18:02:04 [Matt_King]
- present+
- 18:02:04 [jongund]
- present+jongund
- 18:02:08 [jongund]
- present+ jongund
- 18:02:09 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:02:09 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/24-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
- 18:02:11 [MarkMccarthy]
- present+
- 18:02:41 [Sarah_Higley]
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- 18:03:27 [CurtBellew]
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- 18:04:15 [evan]
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- 18:04:16 [jamesn]
- Meeting: September 24, 2019 Authoring Practices Taskforce Meeting
- 18:04:26 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:04:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/24-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
- 18:05:04 [Matt_King]
- Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-24%2C-2019-Meeting
- 18:05:18 [carmacleod]
- scribe: carmacleod
- 18:05:30 [carmacleod]
- agenda?
- 18:06:47 [Jemma_]
- present+ Jemma
- 18:06:57 [ZoeBijl]
- present+
- 18:06:58 [CurtBellew]
- present +
- 18:06:59 [Jemma_]
- zakim, who is here?
- 18:06:59 [Zakim]
- Present: Matt_King, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Jemma, ZoeBijl
- 18:07:01 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see evan, CurtBellew, Sarah_Higley, siri, jongund, Matt_King, Dorothy, MarkMccarthy, carmacleod, Zakim, RRSAgent, Jemma_, MichaelC, github-bot, yatil, jamesn, ZoeBijl,
- 18:07:01 [Zakim]
- ... trackbot
- 18:07:08 [evan]
- present+
- 18:07:20 [carmacleod]
- present+
- 18:07:36 [carmacleod]
- TOPIC: Third Working Draft Milestone Review
- 18:07:58 [Sarah_Higley]
- present+
- 18:08:12 [jamesn]
- s/Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference/Meeting: September 24, 2019 Authoring Practices Taskforce Meeting/
- 18:08:15 [Jemma_]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/10
- 18:08:21 [jamesn]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:08:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/24-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
- 18:08:31 [carmacleod]
- mck: as of right now, it looks like we are only at 50%, but that will change in the next few hours
- 18:10:19 [carmacleod]
- Regarding https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/727 - don't link directly into spec for now
- 18:11:31 [carmacleod]
- mck: meter pattern, colindextext, rowindextext should have something to review next week
- 18:11:56 [carmacleod]
- TOPIC: TPAC review, including long term strategy and priorities
- 18:12:11 [carmacleod]
- mck: one part of TPAC agenda to review
- 18:12:33 [carmacleod]
- mck: long-term goals related to APG
- 18:13:23 [carmacleod]
- mck: first goal has always been to get full coverage of aria spec so that folks can get guidance
- 18:13:43 [zcorpan]
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- 18:13:47 [Jemma_]
- 1. Full coverage of ARIA spec
- 18:13:47 [Jemma_]
- 2. Integration of assistive technology support tables
- 18:13:47 [Jemma_]
- 3. Code quality and readability
- 18:13:47 [Jemma_]
- 4. APG Usability
- 18:13:47 [Jemma_]
- 5. Integration with other W3C accessibility educational resources
- 18:13:53 [carmacleod]
- mck: add info about which examples can be used "right now"
- 18:14:12 [carmacleod]
- mck: on track to deliver AT support tables next year
- 18:14:41 [carmacleod]
- mck: quality of code, i.e. contrast issues, etc
- 18:15:12 [carmacleod]
- mck: goal that by the end of next year that we have done an end to end audit
- 18:16:05 [carmacleod]
- mck: longer term: usability of the apg itself, convert APG from a monolithic note into a web site.
- 18:16:19 [carmacleod]
- mck: like WAI-ARIA Tutorials
- 18:17:30 [carmacleod]
- mck: every time we publish, new versions of examples are created, old ones live forever
- 18:18:10 [carmacleod]
- mck: need more educational/explanatory resources, all under one umbrella
- 18:19:05 [carmacleod]
- mck: would need support from other groups, might need joint task force to make it happen
- 18:19:47 [carmacleod]
- jon: what happened with combo box?
- 18:20:08 [carmacleod]
- mck: microsoft isn't willing to go along with proposal, so more discussion is necessary
- 18:21:05 [carmacleod]
- mck: nvda made fixes to support 1.1 model, so if we can get 1.1 pattern to work in AT, may be better not to introduce another new pattern
- 18:21:26 [Jemma_]
- http://a11y.pro/combobox-TPAC2019/
- 18:21:27 [carmacleod]
- mck: not sure all problems can be solved robustly with 1.1
- 18:21:40 [Jemma_]
- I copied Matt's presentation
- 18:21:58 [Jemma_]
- s/copied/copied the url of
- 18:23:10 [carmacleod]
- zoe: regarding code readability, I am drafting guidance in issue 1180 - please add comments
- 18:24:15 [Jemma_]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1180
- 18:25:09 [carmacleod]
- evan: I can do a PR for modernizing using build
- 18:26:17 [carmacleod]
- sarah: I can help with build processes so that we can use more ES6 code, etc, and update examples
- 18:27:09 [carmacleod]
- mck: how would this look for users?
- 18:27:36 [carmacleod]
- zoe: we would still link to our js files to show the javascript
- 18:29:14 [jamesn]
- q+
- 18:29:28 [carmacleod]
- evan: can separate the type of code we require authors to write from the deployed code
- 18:30:31 [carmacleod]
- james: debugging through code would not look the same as source code
- 18:30:39 [carmacleod]
- sarah: can use source maps
- 18:31:30 [jamesn]
- ack me
- 18:31:33 [carmacleod]
- jon: need to be careful that the code that you are seeing is not the code that is executing in the browser
- 18:31:53 [carmacleod]
- s/that/because
- 18:33:13 [carmacleod]
- mck: how much longer will we care about IE11
- 18:33:37 [Jemma_]
- q?
- 18:34:08 [carmacleod]
- mck: people might still be required to produce stuff that works in IE11, and possibly not our job to show them how to support it
- 18:34:33 [carmacleod]
- zoe: that boils down to "how many people use AT that only supports IE11"
- 18:34:51 [carmacleod]
- mck: I am not aware of any AT that only supports IE11
- 18:35:20 [Jemma_]
- https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/#browsers
- 18:35:30 [Jemma_]
- https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey7/#browsercombos
- 18:36:15 [Jemma_]
- the data is from Oct, 2017
- 18:36:25 [carmacleod]
- mck: we have said that our scope is modern and popular browsers, and we have historically included IE11
- 18:36:35 [MarkMccarthy]
- Maybe once the new WebAIM survey comes out we can get a little bit of a clearer picture, understanding its scope is limited
- 18:38:06 [carmacleod]
- sarah: many microsoft products no longer support IE
- 18:39:08 [carmacleod]
- mck: I would like to move on, but we will bring this up again at the beginning of the year, and we may decide to drop support for IE11 then
- 18:39:20 [carmacleod]
- mck: Next issue: spinbutton in Safari
- 18:39:41 [carmacleod]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1154
- 18:39:59 [carmacleod]
- mck: works with month and day, but not year?
- 18:40:16 [carmacleod]
- mck: is this a bug in the example, or a safari bug?
- 18:41:27 [carmacleod]
- jon: spinbutton doesn't work in vo
- 18:42:45 [carmacleod]
- mck: MacOS safari does work with VO - it just doesn't work with VO commands
- 18:45:07 [carmacleod]
- jon: could use aria-valuetext instead of aria-valuenow
- 18:45:25 [carmacleod]
- mck: need to report VO bug
- 18:45:36 [carmacleod]
- jon: I can look into this
- 18:45:57 [carmacleod]
- TOPIC: open examples in CodePen
- 18:46:21 [carmacleod]
- mck: need someone to do some css, then Jesse Beach will add to all of the examples
- 18:46:57 [carmacleod]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1110
- 18:47:54 [carmacleod]
- zoe: I will make the button pretty
- 18:48:35 [carmacleod]
- TOPIC: Issue 1150 - support warning
- 18:49:09 [MarkMccarthy]
- This widget may have support gaps that can only be filled by the development of new technologies. Authors should fully test this widget before using it for a production ready project. Likewise, it may be poorly supported by certain browsers or assistive technologies.
- 18:49:13 [carmacleod]
- github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1150
- 18:49:55 [carmacleod]
- mark: wrote it so it can be generically used
- 18:51:06 [carmacleod]
- mck: if it is so general that it doesn't give any idea about what the gaps are, then users won't know if it affects them
- 18:52:11 [carmacleod]
- mck: should we scope this warning to just be mobile, touch screen, or similar?
- 18:52:47 [carmacleod]
- mark: open to making that change if others agree
- 18:53:11 [carmacleod]
- mck: ... assistive technologies offered via touch interaction ... ?
- 18:53:56 [carmacleod]
- mck: do we want to use the word "widget" or "pattern" here? Or "widgets implemented using this pattern"?
- 18:54:22 [carmacleod]
- mck: might depend on context (i.e. does it appear of pattern page or example page)
- 18:55:20 [carmacleod]
- mck: do we need the "Likewise" part?
- 18:55:21 [Jemma_]
- "This widget may have support gaps that can only be filled by the development of new technologies. Authors should fully test this widget before using it for a production ready project. Likewise, it may be poorly supported by certain browsers or assistive technologies."
- 18:56:15 [Jemma_]
- +1 for Matt's comments on the first sentence
- 18:56:49 [carmacleod]
- mck: maybe first sentence and last sentence are redundant?
- 18:56:53 [Jemma_]
- other than this looks great, Mark
- 18:57:08 [carmacleod]
- mck: which examples need this, other than slider?
- 18:57:18 [Jemma_]
- s/than this/than that, this
- 18:57:56 [carmacleod]
- mck: add it to slider first, then duplicate as needed
- 18:59:00 [MarkMccarthy]
- Thanks Jemma
- 18:59:10 [carmacleod]
- mck: new technologies like AOM
- 19:00:19 [carmacleod]
- jemma: "new technologies" sounds vague - maybe we need to specifically include AOM?
- 19:01:47 [carmacleod]
- mck: don't want a dependency on AOM in wording
- 19:02:10 [Matt_King]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 19:02:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/24-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King
- 19:02:42 [carmacleod]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 19:02:42 [Zakim]
- Present: Matt_King, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Jemma, ZoeBijl, evan, carmacleod, Sarah_Higley
- 19:03:16 [Jemma_]
- present+ curtbellew
- 19:03:22 [carmacleod]
- present+ jamesn
- 19:04:05 [carmacleod]
- present+ CurtBellew
- 19:04:27 [carmacleod]
- zakim, bye
- 19:04:27 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria-apg
- 19:04:28 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Jemma, ZoeBijl, evan, carmacleod, Sarah_Higley, curtbellew, jamesn
- 19:04:36 [carmacleod]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 19:04:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/24-aria-apg-minutes.html carmacleod
- 19:05:56 [carmacleod]
- you're welcome jemma!
- 19:06:04 [carmacleod]
- bye for now
- 19:06:18 [Jemma_]
- bye
- 21:18:02 [MichaelC]
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