IRC log of webapps on 2019-09-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:01:14 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-webapps-irc
- 00:01:41 [tink]
- TOPIC: WebApps WG TPAC 19 Sep
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- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 00:02:24 [SteveBecker]
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- 00:02:48 [marcosc]
- Meeting structure https://github.com/w3c/webappswg/issues/10
- 00:03:00 [Yves]
- Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/webappswg/issues/10
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- 00:04:48 [mustaq]
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- 00:05:08 [xiaoqian]
- meeting: WebApps WG TPAC Meeting
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- 00:08:57 [Yves]
- present+
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- 00:09:01 [Mek]
- present+
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- present+
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- present+
- 00:09:04 [cmp]
- present+
- 00:09:05 [aarongu]
- present+
- 00:09:05 [mustaq]
- present+ Mustaq Ahmed
- 00:09:08 [SteveBecker]
- present+
- 00:09:10 [dlibby]
- present+
- 00:09:11 [msw_]
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- 00:09:13 [smaug]
- present+ Olli_Pettay
- 00:09:16 [tink]
- `present+ Léonie (tink)
- 00:09:17 [lgombos]
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- 00:09:27 [NavidZ_]
- present+ NavidZ
- 00:09:35 [msw_]
- present+ Mike_Wasserman (Google)
- 00:09:38 [joemedley]
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- 00:10:01 [lgombos]
- Present+ Laszlo_Gombos
- 00:10:04 [wanderview]
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- present+
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- present+
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- present+
- 00:10:37 [dmurph]
- present+
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- 00:10:39 [ella]
- present +
- 00:10:49 [Kangchan]
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- 00:10:53 [szager]
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- 00:10:55 [oriol]
- present+ Oriol Brufau (Igalia)
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- 00:11:26 [Kangchan]
- present+ Kangchan Lee (ETRI)
- 00:11:29 [asa_]
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- 00:11:30 [dmurph]
- present-
- 00:11:45 [dmurph]
- present+ Daniel Murphy (Google)
- 00:11:52 [christianliebel]
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- 00:11:58 [tink]
- Code of conduct: https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/cepc-20141022/Overview.html
- 00:12:00 [szager]
- present
- 00:12:05 [asa_]
- present
- 00:12:15 [christianliebel]
- present+
- 00:12:23 [garykac]
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- 00:12:32 [beverloo]
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- +garykac
- 00:12:57 [odejesush]
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- present+
- 00:13:58 [harrisjay]
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- 00:14:01 [Yves]
- code of conduct: https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/cepc-20151007/
- 00:14:45 [annevk]
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- 00:14:58 [Yves]
- webapps charter: https://www.w3.org/2019/05/webapps-charter.html
- 00:16:11 [Dongwoo]
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- 00:16:46 [jay]
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- 00:17:04 [thomas_the_fish]
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- 00:19:21 [tink]
- https://www.w3.org/Consortium/cepc/cepc-20141022/Overview.html
- 00:19:25 [marcosc]
- https://github.com/w3c/webappswg/issues/10
- 00:19:37 [GameMaker]
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- 00:22:58 [marcosc]
- Mek: not much progress, but we added new promisy methods. Don't expect to see many more changes but we need cleanup
- 00:23:14 [marcosc]
- https://github.com/w3c/FileAPI/issues/138
- 00:23:46 [hober]
- present+
- 00:23:55 [GameMaker]
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- 00:23:55 [marcosc]
- Mek: some mostly need to talk to annevk
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- present+
- 00:24:07 [garykac]
- present+
- 00:24:19 [ricea]
- present+
- 00:24:23 [annevk]
- present+
- 00:24:27 [beverloo]
- present+
- 00:24:47 [marcosc]
- MC: anything blocking?
- 00:24:51 [marcosc]
- Mek: just time
- 00:25:24 [darwin]
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- 00:25:25 [marcosc]
- Let's move onto Gamepad API
- 00:25:51 [marcosc]
- https://github.com/w3c/gamepad/issues/99
- 00:25:52 [JohnJansen]
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- 00:26:24 [marcosc]
- steve: we are trying to get to CR. We have a privacy issue and a proposal.
- 00:27:05 [marcosc]
- steve: we have some tests in WPT.
- 00:27:05 [sagoston]
- present+
- 00:27:26 [marcosc]
- MC: it would good to see how much test coverage we have .
- 00:27:49 [GameMaker]
- present+
- 00:28:03 [marcosc]
- Indexed Database API
- 00:28:15 [kelvin]
- present+
- 00:28:17 [szager]
- IndexDB
- 00:28:28 [marcosc]
- https://github.com/w3c/IndexedDB/issues/290
- 00:28:33 [szager]
- dmurph: three major changes
- 00:28:49 [szager]
- dmurph: 1) IDBFactory databases
- 00:29:09 [szager]
- 2) IDBTransaction commit() -- explicit transaction commit
- 00:29:23 [szager]
- dmurph: 3) IDBCursor request attribute (?)
- 00:29:32 [oyiptong]
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- 00:29:32 [Darwin_Huang]
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- 00:29:42 [szager]
- dmurph: Better controls over transaction lifetime and status
- 00:30:01 [Darwin_Huang]
- present+
- 00:30:11 [szager]
- dmurph: Maybe not enough support to move to CR due to lack of adoption
- 00:30:39 [szager]
- dmurph: Need to chat with Mozilla people
- 00:30:43 [Darwin_Huang]
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- 00:31:17 [GameMake_]
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- 00:31:20 [szager]
- dmurph: Seeking opinions from Apple; Brady/Apple is the person, but not present
- 00:32:37 [takumif]
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- 00:33:08 [Yves]
- https://github.com/w3c/IntersectionObserver/issues/380
- 00:33:33 [horo]
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- 00:35:12 [saschanaz]
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- 00:37:58 [szager]
- IntersectionObserver tl;dr -- basically ready for CR, implemented in all major browsers
- 00:38:18 [szager]
- szager evangelizing for IntersectionObserver V2 (occlusion detection)
- 00:38:36 [szager]
- PointerLock
- 00:39:19 [szager]
- Issues due to OS display scaling affecting cursor location
- 00:39:47 [szager]
- There's a path forward on Windows, looking for Apple people to collaborate
- 00:40:17 [szager]
- Looking for usability feedback prior to CR
- 00:40:53 [oyiptong]
- present+
- 00:41:55 [szager]
- Push API
- 00:42:04 [szager]
- Concern about testability
- 00:42:25 [jay]
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- 00:43:02 [szager]
- Improvements in interop over last 12 months
- 00:43:46 [szager]
- Editor(s) unsure whether it's worthwhile to move to CR
- 00:44:26 [szager]
- API may undergo additional churn, so CR may be premature
- 00:44:46 [szager]
- Screen Orientation API
- 00:44:58 [sanketj]
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- 00:45:37 [szager]
- Spec overhauled over last 12 months
- 00:45:51 [szager]
- Added lots of WPT
- 00:46:04 [szager]
- Testing on mobile is tedious
- 00:46:51 [szager]
- Fun issues around lock() reentry
- 00:47:23 [jay]
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- 00:47:35 [szager]
- Still lots of work to do
- 00:47:43 [szager]
- Seeking input from WebKIt
- 00:48:06 [whsieh]
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- 00:48:36 [raymes]
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- 00:49:07 [szager]
- Web Manifest spec
- 00:49:18 [torgo]
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- 00:49:22 [szager]
- Limited progress; wanting for feedback from browsers
- 00:49:28 [torgo]
- present+ Dan Appelquist
- 00:50:04 [szager]
- Testing the feature is hard
- 00:50:26 [aarongu]
- Shout out to Maximiliano Firtman (@firt)
- 00:50:42 [szager]
- Just got into Firefox preview, waiting for issues/feedback
- 00:51:25 [szager]
- concerns around BeforeInstallPrompt()
- 00:52:10 [szager]
- aarongu: Want to add "shortcuts" to manifest, to enable long-press type shortcuts for install
- 00:52:36 [szager]
- aarongu: Initial feedback is positive, more discussion necessary
- 00:52:48 [aarongu]
- shortcuts = context menu like capability
- 00:53:06 [szager]
- Web Share API
- 00:53:31 [aarongu]
- shortcuts background/discussion https://github.com/w3c/manifest/issues/582
- 00:54:29 [szager]
- This is an example of the standards process working well
- 00:54:39 [szager]
- shipped in chromium and webkit, being implemented in firefox
- 00:55:06 [szager]
- CR process should be smooth sailing
- 00:55:31 [szager]
- Do we want to support sharing files? Security concerns.
- 00:56:12 [szager]
- How to do feature detection for level-2 features?
- 00:56:32 [tantek]
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- 00:56:52 [szager]
- Here come the editing specs..
- 00:57:19 [szager]
- UIEvents
- 00:57:19 [tantek]
- present+
- 00:57:36 [tantek]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 00:57:39 [szager]
- Long crufty history of this spec
- 00:58:19 [szager]
- tantek: Need significant rewrites of old spec prior to CR
- 00:58:36 [tantek]
- s/tantek/???
- 00:59:09 [szager]
- Anybody: who is the speaker?
- 00:59:41 [dharani]
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- 01:00:01 [pwnall]
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- 01:00:21 [szager]
- garykac: This is grungy unglamorous work, but the current state is limiting other API's
- 01:00:29 [aarongu]
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- 01:00:35 [szager]
- Clipboard API
- 01:00:35 [aarongu]
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- 01:00:47 [garykac]
- hello
- 01:00:56 [whsieh]
- present+
- 01:01:25 [szager]
- garykac: implemented text and image support, spec work to follow
- 01:01:42 [szager]
- garykac: Long list of desired features
- 01:02:19 [szager]
- garykac: Async text clipboard API was first step; step two adds image support
- 01:02:27 [szager]
- garykac: Seeking feedback
- 01:04:34 [grisha]
- present+
- 01:04:36 [sanketj]
- present+
- 01:04:38 [szager]
- jsbell will talk about IndexDB cursor requests
- 01:04:53 [marcosc_]
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- 01:05:16 [szager]
- jsbell: cursor->request bookkeeping was hard, now it's easy
- 01:05:23 [karl]
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- 01:05:26 [szager]
- jsbell: \o/
- 01:05:43 [wonsuk___]
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- 01:05:48 [szager]
- Input Events API
- 01:06:01 [garykac]
- Johannes Wil,
- 01:06:03 [garykac]
- Wilm
- 01:06:04 [marcosc_]
- jw
- 01:06:11 [christianliebel]
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- 01:06:11 [szager]
- Johannes Will: Two levels of API
- 01:06:14 [jsbell]
- present+
- 01:06:23 [szager]
- Level 1 implemented in chromium and WK
- 01:06:27 [szager]
- Level 2 only in @K
- 01:06:28 [szager]
- WK
- 01:06:29 [wonsuk___]
- present+
- 01:06:37 [szager]
- Seeking feedback from chromium
- 01:07:07 [joemedley]
- present+
- 01:07:28 [xiaoqian]
- Input Events and Contenteditable -> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/199
- 01:07:49 [szager]
- marcosc_: Maybe time to revisit two-implementor policy for spec progress
- 01:07:50 [dlibby_]
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- 01:08:42 [szager]
- Johanness Will (JW): Level 2 was original proposal, but chromium discovered problems and backed off original proposal, leading to schism
- 01:09:02 [szager]
- JW: Onus on chromium to suggest path forward
- 01:09:12 [szager]
- Selection API
- 01:09:55 [szager]
- Postpone Selection API pending rniwa
- 01:10:02 [szager]
- ContentEditable
- 01:10:24 [szager]
- JW: All browsers have legacy implementations without formal spec
- 01:10:44 [szager]
- JW: Intention is to revisit after Input Events API
- 01:11:22 [szager]
- JW: execCommand is buggiest part
- 01:11:39 [jsbell]
- IDBCursor request video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1TEPQz02iU
- 01:13:14 [szager]
- jsbell: Please subscribe to my YT channel!
- 01:13:43 [jsbell]
- Pthbbbbt
- 01:14:04 [szager]
- Accessibility specs...
- 01:14:12 [szager]
- Editors not present, can anyone speak?
- 01:14:51 [szager]
- Leonie Watson (LW): Lack of tests is primary impediment
- 01:15:04 [pwnall]
- present+ Victor Costan (Google)
- 01:15:54 [szager]
- LW: Extracting old accessibility from HTML5 spec created lack of implementors
- 01:16:34 [szager]
- LW: There are active participants from Apple and Mozilla
- 01:17:43 [torgo]
- q+ to ask about the things that have come over from WICG?
- 01:17:58 [karl]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 01:17:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-webapps-minutes.html karl
- 01:18:16 [karl]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
- 01:20:17 [NavidZ_]
- https://github.com/w3c/editing/blob/gh-pages/TPAC/2019/Agenda.md
- 01:21:08 [xiaoqian]
- Editing Meeting -> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/198
- 01:24:04 [msw_]
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- 01:27:11 [tantek]
- I'd like to discuss text range references with anyone interested, e.g. https://indieweb.org/fragmentions
- 01:29:48 [szager]
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- 01:35:48 [kimwooglae]
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- 01:50:43 [aarongu]
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- 01:52:55 [tantek]
- aarongu here's one pointer https://github.com/w3c/payment-method-manifest/issues/27
- 01:54:46 [torgo]
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- 02:38:05 [kinuko]
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- 02:45:53 [staphany]
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- 02:45:55 [staphany]
- https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/143w70xtfqculs5x-bPgTOwu6GZO6uTOYeBjnN63pzs8/edit?usp=sharing
- 02:46:33 [staphany]
- present+
- 02:46:42 [staphany]
- present+ Staphany Park (Google)
- 02:47:20 [pwnall]
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- 02:47:33 [pwnall]
- present+ Victor Costan (Google)
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- 04:04:02 [Mek]
- can people announce what and when they are going to talk about in the web apps room in this IRC channel?
- 04:04:08 [torgo]
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- 04:41:10 [jsbell]
- Going to try and talk about IndexedDB in the next few minutes
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- 04:59:51 [jay]
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- 05:00:16 [jay]
- topic: Image Resource
- 05:00:56 [jay]
- marcos: Things to be careful of: purpose, things that are weird in different contexts, overly specific
- 05:01:16 [jay]
- webmanifest we're going to convert into info types
- 05:01:28 [jay]
- we can redefine the whole manifest spec in terms of that.
- 05:01:33 [whsieh]
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- 05:02:01 [jay]
- aaron: Does that make it so that image resource would be extensible within webappmanifest
- 05:02:10 [jay]
- marcos: yes, where possible we'd try and share
- 05:02:35 [jay]
- rayan: We're using the image resource in background fetch and content indexing
- 05:03:03 [jay]
- beverloo: Matt just raised an issue on the image spec adding 50 new purposes
- 05:03:07 [Zakim]
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- 05:03:43 [jay]
- marcos: Other things to keep in mind are that it isn't just the members, its the processing model: needs to be generalized correctly.
- 05:03:59 [jay]
- Would the maskable stuff stay in here?
- 05:04:19 [jay]
- rayan: Maskable is very specific to manifest
- 05:04:29 [jay]
- aaron: Usable in the context of the icon and shortcut icon
- 05:04:42 [jay]
- beverloo: About to ship on Android for WebAPKs
- 05:04:55 [jay]
- rayan: platform and purpose are very manifest specific.
- 05:05:06 [jay]
- marcos: Probably need to talk to jake
- 05:05:53 [jay]
- aaron: If we migrate it to a new repo, do we migrate issues?
- 05:05:56 [jay]
- marcos: yes.
- 05:06:09 [jay]
- aaron: Wanted to bring up color scheme: Image is for a specific theme
- 05:07:00 [jay]
- ??: 3D image resources
- 05:07:43 [jay]
- marcos: question in my mind is is it just an image type?
- 05:08:11 [jay]
- ??: Want a new mimetype
- 05:08:23 [jay]
- s/??/hernicus
- 05:08:36 [jay]
- aaron: Favicon is separate from this spec
- 05:08:44 [jay]
- user agent can determine if it wants to use it
- 05:08:59 [jay]
- hernicus: Only new thing then would be size (we have 3 dimensions)
- 05:09:56 [jay]
- marcos: If there are 2 x's then we could assume it's a 3D size.
- 05:10:41 [jay]
- marcos: Probably needs to go through the html spec
- 05:11:17 [jay]
- we will pick it up automatically afterwards.
- 05:11:48 [jay]
- aaron: Good in our book.
- 05:12:11 [christianliebel]
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- 05:18:10 [jay]
- topic: Color Schemes
- 05:18:21 [jay]
- aaron: Different icons for different color schemes
- 05:18:30 [jay]
- maybe works with highncontrast?
- 05:18:37 [jay]
- some colors don't look good in darkmode
- 05:18:52 [jay]
- the vscode nightly icon looks bad in night mode --> Nice to have options
- 05:19:05 [jay]
- raymes: What is exposed to the website
- 05:19:20 [jay]
- aaron: The say in the manifest what scheme the icon is for (by default all)
- 05:19:48 [jay]
- beverloo: I like it. It's probably hard to support on Android, but I'm for it.
- 05:20:26 [jay]
- aaron: Wouldn't dynamically switch on Android
- 05:20:44 [jay]
- beverloo: This is tricky, we can maybe do something about it?
- 05:21:05 [jay]
- might be hard on Firefox, because you use shortcuts, which can't be updated.
- 05:21:20 [sam_]
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- 05:22:34 [jay]
- beverloo: I'm a bit concerned, we're worried about the default case working well
- 05:22:46 [jay]
- Devs will have to test, probably not top of mind
- 05:22:59 [jay]
- too easy to just set it to light mode and forget.
- 05:23:22 [jay]
- aaron: No preference would be the default, so it would probably work okayish
- 05:23:35 [jay]
- we should copy what the color scheme folks are doing.
- 05:24:06 [jay]
- leaves it open to the OS to convert the icon (if that's the kind of thing it wants to do)
- 05:24:22 [scheib]
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- 05:25:29 [jay]
- marcos: Who wants to do the work
- 05:25:34 [jay]
- aaron: I'll do it.
- 05:26:06 [soju]
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- 12:47:45 [smaug]
- I wish agendas wouldn't link to non-open Google docs
- 12:48:46 [smaug]
- garykac: is raw clipboard stuff in https://github.com/w3c/editing/blob/gh-pages/TPAC/2019/Agenda.md perhaps something you have access to?
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- 14:03:52 [Mek]
- smaug: I pinged the author to make it publi
- 14:04:06 [smaug]
- thanks
- 14:05:32 [Mek]
- smaug: should be fixed