IRC log of ag on 2019-09-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 23:22:22 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-irc
- 23:22:24 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 23:22:24 [Zakim]
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- 23:22:26 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
- 23:22:26 [trackbot]
- Date: 19 September 2019
- 23:22:36 [AWK]
- rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
- 23:26:24 [MichaelC]
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- 23:28:15 [nicaise]
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- 23:30:02 [Jennie]
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- 23:34:47 [kzms2]
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- 23:42:07 [KimD]
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- 23:42:33 [KimD]
- Present+
- 23:42:59 [Jennie]
- present+
- 23:45:55 [AWK]
- ZAkim, agenda?
- 23:45:55 [Zakim]
- I see nothing on the agenda
- 23:46:07 [AWK]
- Agenda+ scribe rotation
- 23:46:13 [AWK]
- agenda+ WCAG 2.2 SC work
- 23:48:05 [Chuck]
- Scribe: Chuck
- 23:48:43 [atai]
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- 23:49:40 [david-macdonald]
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- 23:49:52 [Jennie]
- * yes, thanks!
- 23:50:45 [AWK]
- We are going to scribe lightly as Andrew is documenting questions/issues/tasks for different SC at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.xiycc7mrk89l
- 23:52:14 [KimD]
- me/ I'm freaked
- 23:53:21 [Chuck]
- Andrew: Essential controls... next is custom interactions.
- 23:53:32 [Chuck]
- AWK: Where from?
- 23:53:43 [Chuck]
- TOPIC: Custom Interactions
- 23:53:52 [AWK]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouVFq4w-i0rchNHtTAG_JoRwHfYm9mN2MkxFBct1JSI/
- 23:55:51 [david-macdonald]
- I hear alastair fine
- 23:57:51 [david-macdonald]
- oops 2.2
- 23:58:03 [Chuck]
- David, I'll call attention to your request.
- 00:01:16 [Rachael]
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- 00:01:32 [Jemma_]
- present+
- 00:01:35 [Rachael]
- present+
- 00:02:02 [Rachael]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 00:02:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-minutes.html Rachael
- 00:02:04 [Nicaise]
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- 00:03:33 [david-macdonald]
- @alastair... thanks.
- 00:06:45 [romain]
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- 00:07:36 [Fazio]
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- 00:07:43 [Fazio]
- present+
- 00:08:28 [alastairc]
- Questions are being recorded here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#
- 00:11:39 [JohnRochford]
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- present+ JohnRochford
- 00:12:46 [alastairc]
- present+
- 00:14:18 [mbgower]
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- 00:14:39 [mbgower]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 00:14:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-minutes.html mbgower
- 00:15:40 [Makoto]
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- 00:16:45 [song_jaeil]
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- 00:16:57 [Jemma_]
- q?
- 00:17:52 [mbgower]
- q+ to say I've been having questions about gestures lately, and this raises them
- 00:18:17 [Jemma_]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 00:18:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-minutes.html Jemma_
- 00:19:34 [mbgower]
- present+
- 00:21:14 [Jemma_]
- +q
- 00:21:28 [AWK]
- ack m
- 00:21:28 [Zakim]
- mbgower, you wanted to say I've been having questions about gestures lately, and this raises them
- 00:21:37 [alastairc]
- noting our questions are recorded here: Seemshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#
- 00:22:21 [AWK]
- Questions/notes are recorded here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.xiycc7mrk89l
- 00:22:49 [AWK]
- s|noting our questions are recorded here: Seemshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#|
- 00:23:50 [Jemma_]
- +1 to mbgower's suggestion for documenting the keyboard, gesture actions.
- 00:24:20 [Chuck]
- q+ concerns regarding documenting keyboard and gestures.
- 00:24:43 [Chuck]
- q?
- 00:24:48 [alastairc]
- ack je
- 00:24:53 [Chuck]
- q+ concerns with documenting
- 00:25:03 [alastairc]
- q-
- 00:25:06 [AWK]
- rrsagrent, draft minutes
- 00:25:27 [Chuck]
- q+ to say concerns with documenting keyboard and gestures
- 00:25:27 [AWK]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 00:25:27 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-minutes.html AWK
- 00:26:30 [mbgower]
- My points were on three things: 1) this kind of guidance saying to document interaction is useful, but we don't have it for keyboard as an SC. So it seems a bit odd to have it only for gestures.
- 00:27:04 [Jemma_]
- thanks for your summary, mbgower
- 00:27:17 [alastairc]
- mbgower - this SC is aimed at both
- 00:28:01 [Jemma_]
- it was not clear to me that this SC is aimed at both at first hand.
- 00:28:49 [alastairc]
- we've focused on gestures as that's a key scenario, but it was changed to allow for both.
- 00:28:52 [Jemma_]
- thanks for your explanation.
- 00:28:59 [mbgower]
- 2) the history of keyboard interaction guidance in wcag seems based on an assumption that the OS supplies the means for a user to not need to use more than one 'finger' at a time (i.e., sticky keys). We don't provide an equivalent to the Pointer Gestures SC for keyboard, because the assumption is the OS handles it.
- 00:31:02 [mbgower]
- 3) I think it would be an idea to identify what gestures are made accessible at the OS level by the main mobile/touch platforms. That can help inform our decision on what constitutes custom (and poses a challenge to someone who is able to do gestures on a device via the OS a11y features)
- 00:31:47 [Jennie]
- * Jennie I'm here for find help, and can be here for about a half hour
- 00:32:05 [Chuck]
- RESOLUTION: More work will be required on this SC.
- 00:32:23 [Chuck]
- TOPIC: Find Help
- 00:32:23 [alastairc]
- Ordering: Find help, then epub SCs.
- 00:32:37 [david-macdonald]
- can u hear me
- 00:32:43 [AWK]
- Notes recorded at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.k2791lcrtdbb
- 00:32:44 [romain]
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- 00:32:47 [alastairc]
- Find help doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fX4Iw169OGUny5RTd70S8qAneYy5e0hr7zupE21gPBM/edit
- 00:33:03 [Jennie]
- q+
- 00:33:05 [romain]
- present+
- 00:33:27 [david-macdonald]
- ok I'l check it out... epub folks are interested... I'll let them know we're next (Aveneesh, etc..)
- 00:33:35 [alastairc]
- ack ch
- 00:33:35 [Zakim]
- Chuck, you wanted to say concerns with documenting keyboard and gestures
- 00:33:40 [alastairc]
- ack je
- 00:34:05 [Jennie]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fX4Iw169OGUny5RTd70S8qAneYy5e0hr7zupE21gPBM/edit#heading=h.c1ri43umkho0
- 00:36:06 [Ryladog]
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- Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 00:37:28 [DavidClarke]
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- 00:39:14 [alastairc]
- q?
- 00:40:34 [mbgower]
- q+ to say that I see this as an extension of Consistent Navigation
- 00:40:48 [KimD]
- q+ to ask whether a link to the info would meet this?
- 00:42:05 [alastairc]
- ack mb
- 00:42:05 [Zakim]
- mbgower, you wanted to say that I see this as an extension of Consistent Navigation
- 00:42:17 [JakeAbma]
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- 00:42:26 [AWK]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.k2791lcrtdbb
- 00:42:28 [JakeAbma]
- present+ JakeAbma
- 00:42:31 [mbgower]
- Navigational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple Web pages within a set of Web pages occur in the same relative order each time they are repeated, unless a change is initiated by the user.
- 00:42:37 [AWK]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#consistent-navigation
- 00:42:45 [AWK]
- s|https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.k2791lcrtdbb|
- 00:43:26 [Chuck]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.k2791lcrtdbb|
- 00:43:46 [alastairc]
- q?
- 00:43:48 [Jemma_]
- q+
- 00:44:05 [alastairc]
- ack kim
- 00:44:05 [Zakim]
- KimD, you wanted to ask whether a link to the info would meet this?
- 00:45:02 [mbgower]
- On another topic. we may want to think about adding that personalization consideration Katie mention as a conformance requirement?
- 00:45:03 [Jennie]
- q+
- 00:45:08 [Nicaise]
- q+
- 00:45:17 [alastairc]
- ack je
- 00:45:27 [Chuck]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#consistent-navigation
- 00:45:50 [Chuck]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fX4Iw169OGUny5RTd70S8qAneYy5e0hr7zupE21gPBM/edit#heading=h.c1ri43umkho0
- 00:47:12 [Jemma_]
- +q I agree with putting help info in a consistent location through navigation system(like that of mbgower's suggetion). however, requiring it to be "on every page" will be restricting the room for info architect and designers' expertise.
- 00:47:17 [alastairc]
- ack je
- 00:47:19 [AWK]
- ack j
- 00:48:36 [Jennie]
- q+
- 00:48:51 [alastairc]
- q+ to ask about very large and very small sites.
- 00:49:08 [alastairc]
- ack ni