IRC log of ag on 2019-09-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

23:22:22 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-irc
23:22:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
23:22:24 [Zakim]
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23:22:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
23:22:26 [trackbot]
Date: 19 September 2019
23:22:36 [AWK]
rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
23:26:24 [MichaelC]
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23:28:15 [nicaise]
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23:30:02 [Jennie]
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23:34:47 [kzms2]
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23:42:07 [KimD]
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23:42:33 [KimD]
Present+
23:42:59 [Jennie]
present+
23:45:55 [AWK]
ZAkim, agenda?
23:45:55 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
23:46:07 [AWK]
Agenda+ scribe rotation
23:46:13 [AWK]
agenda+ WCAG 2.2 SC work
23:48:05 [Chuck]
Scribe: Chuck
23:48:43 [atai]
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23:49:40 [david-macdonald]
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23:49:52 [Jennie]
* yes, thanks!
23:50:45 [AWK]
We are going to scribe lightly as Andrew is documenting questions/issues/tasks for different SC at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.xiycc7mrk89l
23:52:14 [KimD]
me/ I'm freaked
23:53:21 [Chuck]
Andrew: Essential controls... next is custom interactions.
23:53:32 [Chuck]
AWK: Where from?
23:53:43 [Chuck]
TOPIC: Custom Interactions
23:53:52 [AWK]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ouVFq4w-i0rchNHtTAG_JoRwHfYm9mN2MkxFBct1JSI/
23:55:51 [david-macdonald]
I hear alastair fine
23:57:51 [david-macdonald]
oops 2.2
23:58:03 [Chuck]
David, I'll call attention to your request.
00:01:16 [Rachael]
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00:01:32 [Jemma_]
present+
00:01:35 [Rachael]
present+
00:02:02 [Rachael]
rrsagent, make minutes
00:02:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-minutes.html Rachael
00:02:04 [Nicaise]
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00:03:33 [david-macdonald]
@alastair... thanks.
00:06:45 [romain]
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00:07:36 [Fazio]
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00:07:43 [Fazio]
present+
00:08:28 [alastairc]
Questions are being recorded here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#
00:11:39 [JohnRochford]
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present+ JohnRochford
00:12:46 [alastairc]
present+
00:14:18 [mbgower]
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00:14:39 [mbgower]
rrsagent, make minutes
00:14:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-minutes.html mbgower
00:15:40 [Makoto]
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00:16:45 [song_jaeil]
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00:16:57 [Jemma_]
q?
00:17:52 [mbgower]
q+ to say I've been having questions about gestures lately, and this raises them
00:18:17 [Jemma_]
rrsagent, make minutes
00:18:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-minutes.html Jemma_
00:19:34 [mbgower]
present+
00:21:14 [Jemma_]
+q
00:21:28 [AWK]
ack m
00:21:28 [Zakim]
mbgower, you wanted to say I've been having questions about gestures lately, and this raises them
00:21:37 [alastairc]
noting our questions are recorded here: Seemshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#
00:22:21 [AWK]
Questions/notes are recorded here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.xiycc7mrk89l
00:22:49 [AWK]
s|noting our questions are recorded here: Seemshttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#|
00:23:50 [Jemma_]
+1 to mbgower's suggestion for documenting the keyboard, gesture actions.
00:24:20 [Chuck]
q+ concerns regarding documenting keyboard and gestures.
00:24:43 [Chuck]
q?
00:24:48 [alastairc]
ack je
00:24:53 [Chuck]
q+ concerns with documenting
00:25:03 [alastairc]
q-
00:25:06 [AWK]
rrsagrent, draft minutes
00:25:27 [Chuck]
q+ to say concerns with documenting keyboard and gestures
00:25:27 [AWK]
rrsagent, draft minutes
00:25:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/19-ag-minutes.html AWK
00:26:30 [mbgower]
My points were on three things: 1) this kind of guidance saying to document interaction is useful, but we don't have it for keyboard as an SC. So it seems a bit odd to have it only for gestures.
00:27:04 [Jemma_]
thanks for your summary, mbgower
00:27:17 [alastairc]
mbgower - this SC is aimed at both
00:28:01 [Jemma_]
it was not clear to me that this SC is aimed at both at first hand.
00:28:49 [alastairc]
we've focused on gestures as that's a key scenario, but it was changed to allow for both.
00:28:52 [Jemma_]
thanks for your explanation.
00:28:59 [mbgower]
2) the history of keyboard interaction guidance in wcag seems based on an assumption that the OS supplies the means for a user to not need to use more than one 'finger' at a time (i.e., sticky keys). We don't provide an equivalent to the Pointer Gestures SC for keyboard, because the assumption is the OS handles it.
00:31:02 [mbgower]
3) I think it would be an idea to identify what gestures are made accessible at the OS level by the main mobile/touch platforms. That can help inform our decision on what constitutes custom (and poses a challenge to someone who is able to do gestures on a device via the OS a11y features)
00:31:47 [Jennie]
* Jennie I'm here for find help, and can be here for about a half hour
00:32:05 [Chuck]
RESOLUTION: More work will be required on this SC.
00:32:23 [Chuck]
TOPIC: Find Help
00:32:23 [alastairc]
Ordering: Find help, then epub SCs.
00:32:37 [david-macdonald]
can u hear me
00:32:43 [AWK]
Notes recorded at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.k2791lcrtdbb
00:32:44 [romain]
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00:32:47 [alastairc]
Find help doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fX4Iw169OGUny5RTd70S8qAneYy5e0hr7zupE21gPBM/edit
00:33:03 [Jennie]
q+
00:33:05 [romain]
present+
00:33:27 [david-macdonald]
ok I'l check it out... epub folks are interested... I'll let them know we're next (Aveneesh, etc..)
00:33:35 [alastairc]
ack ch
00:33:35 [Zakim]
Chuck, you wanted to say concerns with documenting keyboard and gestures
00:33:40 [alastairc]
ack je
00:34:05 [Jennie]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fX4Iw169OGUny5RTd70S8qAneYy5e0hr7zupE21gPBM/edit#heading=h.c1ri43umkho0
00:36:06 [Ryladog]
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00:37:11 [Ryladog]
Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
00:37:28 [DavidClarke]
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00:39:14 [alastairc]
q?
00:40:34 [mbgower]
q+ to say that I see this as an extension of Consistent Navigation
00:40:48 [KimD]
q+ to ask whether a link to the info would meet this?
00:42:05 [alastairc]
ack mb
00:42:05 [Zakim]
mbgower, you wanted to say that I see this as an extension of Consistent Navigation
00:42:17 [JakeAbma]
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00:42:26 [AWK]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.k2791lcrtdbb
00:42:28 [JakeAbma]
present+ JakeAbma
00:42:31 [mbgower]
Navigational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple Web pages within a set of Web pages occur in the same relative order each time they are repeated, unless a change is initiated by the user.
00:42:37 [AWK]
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#consistent-navigation
00:42:45 [AWK]
s|https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.k2791lcrtdbb|
00:43:26 [Chuck]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HqI19P0LUzdpbm1IM2PPhloXjXWHFC9Fo3QjoVQ4Irc/edit#heading=h.k2791lcrtdbb|
00:43:46 [alastairc]
q?
00:43:48 [Jemma_]
q+
00:44:05 [alastairc]
ack kim
00:44:05 [Zakim]
KimD, you wanted to ask whether a link to the info would meet this?
00:45:02 [mbgower]
On another topic. we may want to think about adding that personalization consideration Katie mention as a conformance requirement?
00:45:03 [Jennie]
q+
00:45:08 [Nicaise]
q+
00:45:17 [alastairc]
ack je
00:45:27 [Chuck]
https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#consistent-navigation
00:45:50 [Chuck]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fX4Iw169OGUny5RTd70S8qAneYy5e0hr7zupE21gPBM/edit#heading=h.c1ri43umkho0
00:47:12 [Jemma_]
+q I agree with putting help info in a consistent location through navigation system(like that of mbgower's suggetion). however, requiring it to be "on every page" will be restricting the room for info architect and designers' expertise.
00:47:17 [alastairc]
ack je
00:47:19 [AWK]
ack j
00:48:36 [Jennie]
q+
00:48:51 [alastairc]
q+ to ask about very large and very small sites.
00:49:08 [alastairc]
ack ni