IRC log of wpack on 2019-09-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 01:47:38 [RRSAgent]
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- 01:47:38 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-irc
- 01:47:39 [koalie]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 01:47:41 [koalie]
- koalie has changed the topic to: https://w3c.github.io/tpac-breakouts/sessions.html
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- 06:22:51 [Zakim]
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- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 07:25:08 [dauwhe]
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- 07:25:18 [dauwhe]
- present+
- 07:25:21 [dauwhe]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 07:25:21 [Zakim]
- Present: dauwhe
- 07:25:23 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see dauwhe, Zakim, sanketj, RRSAgent, dbaron
- 07:27:38 [kzms2]
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- 07:31:53 [drousso]
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- 07:31:54 [jyasskin]
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- 07:31:56 [wendyreid]
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- 07:31:58 [horo]
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- 07:32:02 [wendyreid]
- present+
- 07:32:14 [MasakazuKitahara]
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- 07:32:29 [romain]
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- 07:32:33 [takayud]
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- 07:33:22 [Ralph_]
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- 07:33:23 [zcorpan]
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- 07:33:24 [jeffh]
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- 07:33:25 [domfarolino]
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- 07:33:33 [zcorpan]
- present+
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- 07:33:40 [Ralph_]
- present+
- 07:33:41 [jeffh]
- present+
- 07:33:42 [MasakazuKitahara]
- present+
- 07:33:44 [hober]
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- 07:33:46 [kinuko]
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- 07:33:50 [duga]
- present+
- 07:34:02 [hober]
- present+
- 07:34:04 [JunGamo_]
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- 07:34:05 [domfarolino]
- present+
- 07:34:08 [chrishtr]
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- 07:34:10 [hober]
- RRSAgent, generate minutes
- 07:34:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html hober
- 07:34:13 [toshiakikoike]
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- 07:34:16 [chrishtr]
- present+
- 07:34:20 [kinuko]
- present+
- 07:34:31 [drousso]
- present+
- 07:34:31 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes world-readable
- 07:34:31 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-readable', zcorpan. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 07:34:36 [romain]
- present+
- 07:34:45 [marisa]
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- 07:34:45 [masonfreed]
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- 07:34:45 [jeffh]
- jyasskin (jy): wants to describe web packaging and get feedback...
- 07:35:02 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes world-visible
- 07:35:02 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-visible', zcorpan. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 07:35:04 [alex_christensen]
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- 07:35:05 [horo]
- present+
- 07:35:19 [jeffh]
- [ see slides ]
- 07:35:25 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
- 07:35:30 [wendyreid]
- RRSagent, make logs public
- 07:35:34 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 07:35:34 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
- 07:35:44 [tantek]
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- 07:35:50 [zcorpan]
- Title: Web Packaging
- 07:35:54 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 07:35:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
- 07:35:56 [jeffh]
- ...<goes thru wpack basics, terminology>
- 07:36:05 [hober]
- Chair: jyasskin
- 07:36:16 [zcorpan]
- Meeting: Web Packaging
- 07:36:25 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 07:36:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
- 07:36:43 [jeffh]
- ...<goes into relatoinship with signed exchanges>
- 07:36:48 [tantek]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 07:37:09 [wendyreid]
- scribe+ jeffh
- 07:37:09 [skk]
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- 07:37:39 [jeffh]
- ...<goes into unsigned package use cases...>
- 07:37:53 [jeffh]
- ...<video demo...>
- 07:39:20 [sura]
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- 07:39:47 [KenjiBaheux]
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- 07:39:48 [jeffh]
- ...the demo shows how bundled unsigned exchanges can be utilized
- 07:40:12 [jeffh]
- ...<goes into signed eschange use cases>
- 07:40:43 [jeffh]
- ...<goes into impl and deployment state...>
- 07:41:57 [jeffh]
- ...<currently impl'g navigation to bundles...>
- 07:42:37 [jeffh]
- ...<spec is in WICG, proposing WG in IETF in Nov>
- 07:42:50 [jeffh]
- ....open quesiions:
- 07:43:33 [jeffh]
- ....what's best way to prevent Distributor from handing its user ID to Publisher? Uncredentialed navigation? add attrs to <A> tag?
- 07:43:39 [kinuko]
- navigation to bundle fetch/navigation design: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KFmtiE3DHgKfQH5-nKtLiacMrXsoKIXQZ-VIMGHMje0/view
- 07:43:47 [jeffh]
- ...how dies storage work for unsigned bundles?
- 07:44:02 [jeffh]
- s/dies/does/
- 07:44:18 [jeffh]
- ...Discussion? (floor open)
- 07:44:26 [hober]
- q?
- 07:44:49 [alex_christensen]
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- 07:44:51 [jeffh]
- ?:how does navig to signed bundles work?
- 07:45:10 [jeffh]
- jy: we'll attach bundle to settings object, can trust it cuz it is signed....
- 07:45:28 [jeffh]
- bundle is a resource with a URL, load URL
- 07:45:41 [jeffh]
- s/bundle/...bundle/
- 07:45:42 [zcorpan]
- s/?/reymes/
- 07:45:56 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 07:45:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
- 07:45:57 [Mizushima]
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- 07:46:04 [stantonm]
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- 07:46:25 [jeffh]
- jy: you're asking which resource within bundle you load?
- 07:46:42 [jeffh]
- jy: yes, there's a manifest in bundle identifying what to load first
- 07:46:47 [dauwhe]
- q+
- 07:46:50 [KenjiBaheux]
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- 07:46:57 [zcorpan]
- s/?:how does navig to signed bundles workreymes/reymes: how does navig to signed bundles work/
- 07:47:10 [jeffh]
- ?: can publishers still get atalinux (??)
- 07:47:15 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 07:47:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
- 07:47:15 [KenjiBaheux]
- analytics
- 07:47:21 [wendyreid]
- s/atalinux/analytics/
- 07:47:22 [dauwhe]
- s/atalinux/analytics/
- 07:47:23 [jeffh]
- s/atalinux/analyitics/
- 07:47:28 [KenjiBaheux]
- we got this
- 07:48:12 [Yanni]
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- 07:48:20 [KenjiBaheux]
- q+
- 07:48:33 [jeffh]
- jy: <describes how it works...> they do not get http reqs for the url they signed, but if their JS reports back to their servers then they get analytics...
- 07:48:43 [KenjiBaheux]
- q-
- 07:48:54 [hober]
- ack
- 07:49:03 [hober]
- ack dauwhe
- 07:50:04 [jeffh]
- dauwhe: <somehting about bundle navigation details> I can load the bundle from my local file system? will UA be able to "save a bundle" ?
- 07:50:05 [cmp]
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- 07:50:17 [jeffh]
- kuniko: we are thinking of that
- 07:50:53 [jeffh]
- dauwhe: what about signed exchanges, it's controversial, are other UAs going to impl ?
- 07:50:56 [zcorpan]
- q+
- 07:51:10 [jeffh]
- kinuko: cant say now, we'll see
- 07:51:11 [hober]
- ack zcorpan
- 07:51:24 [wendyreid]
- scribe+ wendyreid
- 07:51:29 [jeffh]
- zcorpan: any WPTs?
- 07:51:49 [jeffh]
- kinuko: we r definitely planning to supply WPTs
- 07:52:27 [hober]
- q?
- 07:52:51 [jeffh]
- zcorpan: please submit issue on WPT wrt signed exchanges
- 07:53:01 [jeffh]
- q?
- 07:53:02 [dauwhe]
- q+
- 07:53:16 [jeffh]
- annevk: curious about the origin handling?
- 07:53:35 [KenjiBaheux]
- ACTION: please submit issue on WPT wrt signed exchanges
- 07:53:35 [jeffh]
- jy: the origin has to contain the pkg url and the claimed url inside the pkg
- 07:53:54 [Yanni]
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- 07:54:45 [jeffh]
- ...this will perhaps intoduce vulns in some non-compliant parsers. have ideas to combine and hash the two URLs... have ideas wrt storage and the the origin(s), but that is not good long-term...
- 07:54:56 [hober]
- ack dauwhe
- 07:55:46 [hober]
- ack Ralph_
- 07:55:47 [jeffh]
- dauwhe: sees usecase from book world where want to have chunks of books that are bundled
- 07:55:57 [jeffh]
- ...will submit issue re this
- 07:56:24 [sura_]
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- 07:56:44 [romain]
- s/to have chunks of books that are bundled/to have data storage for books that are bundled/
- 07:56:58 [jeffh]
- ?: origin named in the pkg will have assurances wrt security/priv, how will the distributor also p;rovide same priv assurances...
- 07:57:13 [bdekoz]
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- 07:57:28 [KenjiBaheux]
- ACTION: dauwhe to file an issue regarding use case from book world where want to have data storage for books that are bundled
- 07:58:38 [hober]
- q?
- 07:58:39 [jeffh]
- jy: dunno how to constrain distributor's priv practices. whoever links u to pkg already knows provided that to you, how you got to the distributor is visible in the way loading things on the web is today. want to make the distirbutor request uncred'd which will help....
- 07:58:47 [jeffh]
- ...but may not be sufficient
- 07:59:20 [jeffh]
- annevk: origin question: if u wan to use an unsigned bundle on your own site, can it have the same origin as your site....?
- 08:00:01 [Yanni_]
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- 08:00:04 [bdekoz]
- official mozilla position is that SxG is considered harmful. See: https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/
- 08:00:08 [Ralph]
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- 08:00:23 [skk_]
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- 08:00:54 [jeffh]
- jy: <yes> if start url is same-origin can treat it that way, but in some cases it might ought to be cross-orig untrusted bundle, might need a flag (where?) to indicate that. a 2nd flag is if we have a signed bundle and the sig expires, do you need to re-fectch bundle over the network, bundle source should erhaps help here....
- 08:00:55 [ksakamoto]
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- 08:01:13 [jeffh]
- jy: how do other UA vendors feel about the unsigned bits of this?
- 08:01:19 [birtles]
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- 08:01:25 [KenjiBaheux]
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- 08:01:25 [hober]
- q?
- 08:01:27 [jeffh]
- ?: they are less controversial than the signed bits of this...
- 08:01:54 [dxie_]
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- 08:02:05 [jeffh]
- ?: are we treating this as a redirect (in the context of web perf WG)
- 08:02:55 [zcorpan]
- s/?: /bdekoz: /
- 08:03:12 [zcorpan]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 08:03:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
- 08:03:18 [MasakazuKitahara_]
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- 08:03:20 [jeffh]
- jy: as a redirect, if it causes probs with inter nal redirect count have to figure something out -- this wud be in fetch... (bdekoz is the questioner)
- 08:03:40 [jeffh]
- raymes: <something about cachcing>
- 08:03:53 [jeffh]
- jy: <missed>
- 08:03:58 [marisa]
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- 08:04:15 [jeffh]
- raymes: is bundle cached in <some special way?>
- 08:04:31 [annevk]
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- 08:04:50 [jeffh]
- kinuko: bundled resource is cached as usual. individual contained resources are not cached.
- 08:04:55 [JunGamo_]
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- 08:05:20 [annevk]
- RRSAgent, minutes?
- 08:05:20 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'minutes'
- 08:05:25 [jeffh]
- jy: if u expose to svc wkr it is up to svc wkr (?) -- this not spec'd yet
- 08:06:04 [jeffh]
- jy: slides URL:
- 08:06:14 [jyasskin]
- slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1NZeUbnZqtoOfPMG-V8K5ntj_9snhwfFekLVQoEk9MsM/edit#slide=id.p
- 08:06:29 [zcorpan]
- s/?: /bdekoz: /
- 08:06:32 [zcorpan]
- s/?: /bdekoz: /
- 08:06:34 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html Ralph
- 08:06:35 [jeffh]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 08:06:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html jeffh
- 08:08:10 [KenjiBaheux]
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- 08:58:28 [dauwhe]
- zakim, bye
- 08:58:28 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, wendyreid, zcorpan, Ralph_, jeffh, MasakazuKitahara, duga, hober, domfarolino, chrishtr, kinuko, drousso, romain, horo
- 08:58:28 [Zakim]
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- 09:03:43 [tantek]
- RRSAgent, pointer?
- 09:03:43 [RRSAgent]
- See https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-irc#T09-03-43
- 09:07:43 [dauwhe]
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- 09:16:46 [jeffh]
- q?
- 09:17:12 [tantek]
- jeffh, Zakim (who manages q) was dismissed by dauwhe above
- 09:31:36 [drousso]
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