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01:47:38 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-irc
01:47:39 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs public
01:47:41 <koalie> koalie has changed the topic to: https://w3c.github.io/tpac-breakouts/sessions.html
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06:22:57 <tantek> RRSAgent, make logs public
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07:25:18 <dauwhe> present+
07:25:21 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is here?
07:25:21 <Zakim> Present: dauwhe
07:25:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see dauwhe, Zakim, sanketj, RRSAgent, dbaron
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07:34:10 <hober> RRSAgent, generate minutes
07:34:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html hober
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07:34:16 <chrishtr> present+
07:34:20 <kinuko> present+
07:34:31 <drousso> present+
07:34:31 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make minutes world-readable
07:34:31 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-readable', zcorpan.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
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07:34:45 <jeffh> jyasskin (jy): wants to describe web packaging and get feedback...
07:35:02 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make minutes world-visible
07:35:02 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-visible', zcorpan.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
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07:35:05 <horo> present+
07:35:19 <jeffh> [ see slides ]
07:35:25 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make logs world-visible
07:35:30 <wendyreid> RRSagent, make logs public
07:35:34 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make minutes
07:35:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
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07:35:50 <zcorpan> Title: Web Packaging
07:35:54 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make minutes
07:35:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
07:35:56 <jeffh> ...<goes thru wpack basics, terminology>
07:36:05 <hober> Chair: jyasskin
07:36:16 <zcorpan> Meeting: Web Packaging
07:36:25 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make minutes
07:36:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
07:36:43 <jeffh> ...<goes into relatoinship with signed exchanges>
07:36:48 <tantek> RRSAgent, make logs public
07:37:09 <wendyreid> scribe+ jeffh
07:37:09 <skk> skk has joined #wpack
07:37:39 <jeffh> ...<goes into unsigned package use cases...>
07:37:53 <jeffh> ...<video demo...>
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07:39:48 <jeffh> ...the demo shows how bundled unsigned exchanges can be utilized
07:40:12 <jeffh> ...<goes into signed eschange use cases>
07:40:43 <jeffh> ...<goes into impl and deployment state...>
07:41:57 <jeffh> ...<currently impl'g navigation to bundles...>
07:42:37 <jeffh> ...<spec is in WICG, proposing WG in IETF in Nov>
07:42:50 <jeffh> ....open quesiions:
07:43:33 <jeffh> ....what's best way to prevent Distributor from handing its user ID to Publisher? Uncredentialed navigation?  add attrs to <A> tag?
07:43:39 <kinuko> navigation to bundle fetch/navigation design: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KFmtiE3DHgKfQH5-nKtLiacMrXsoKIXQZ-VIMGHMje0/view
07:43:47 <jeffh> ...how dies storage work for unsigned bundles?
07:44:02 <jeffh> s/dies/does/
07:44:18 <jeffh> ...Discussion? (floor open)
07:44:26 <hober> q?
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07:44:51 <jeffh> ?:how does navig to signed bundles work?
07:45:10 <jeffh> jy: we'll attach bundle to settings object, can trust it cuz it is signed....
07:45:28 <jeffh> bundle is a resource with a URL, load URL
07:45:41 <jeffh> s/bundle/...bundle/
07:45:42 <zcorpan> s/?/reymes/
07:45:56 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make minutes
07:45:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
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07:46:25 <jeffh> jy: you're asking which resource within bundle you load?
07:46:42 <jeffh> jy: yes, there's a manifest in bundle identifying what to load first
07:46:47 <dauwhe> q+
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07:46:57 <zcorpan> s/?:how does navig to signed bundles workreymes/reymes: how does navig to signed bundles work/
07:47:10 <jeffh> ?: can publishers still get atalinux (??)
07:47:15 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make minutes
07:47:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
07:47:15 <KenjiBaheux> analytics
07:47:21 <wendyreid> s/atalinux/analytics/
07:47:22 <dauwhe> s/atalinux/analytics/
07:47:23 <jeffh> s/atalinux/analyitics/
07:47:28 <KenjiBaheux> we got this
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07:48:20 <KenjiBaheux> q+
07:48:33 <jeffh> jy: <describes how it works...>  they do not get http reqs for the url they signed, but if their JS reports back to their servers then they get analytics...
07:48:43 <KenjiBaheux> q-
07:48:54 <hober> ack
07:49:03 <hober> ack dauwhe
07:50:04 <jeffh> dauwhe: <somehting about bundle navigation details>  I can load the bundle from my local file system? will UA be able to "save a bundle" ?
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07:50:17 <jeffh> kuniko: we are thinking of that
07:50:53 <jeffh> dauwhe: what about signed exchanges, it's controversial, are other UAs going to impl ?
07:50:56 <zcorpan> q+
07:51:10 <jeffh> kinuko: cant say now, we'll see
07:51:11 <hober> ack zcorpan
07:51:24 <wendyreid> scribe+ wendyreid
07:51:29 <jeffh> zcorpan: any WPTs?
07:51:49 <jeffh> kinuko: we r definitely planning to supply WPTs
07:52:27 <hober> q?
07:52:51 <jeffh> zcorpan: please submit issue on WPT wrt signed exchanges
07:53:01 <jeffh> q?
07:53:02 <dauwhe> q+
07:53:16 <jeffh> annevk: curious about the origin handling?
07:53:35 <KenjiBaheux> ACTION: please submit issue on WPT wrt signed exchanges
07:53:35 <jeffh> jy: the origin has to contain the pkg url and the claimed url inside the pkg
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07:54:45 <jeffh> ...this will perhaps intoduce vulns in some non-compliant parsers. have ideas to combine and hash the two URLs... have ideas wrt storage and the the origin(s), but that is not good long-term...
07:54:56 <hober> ack dauwhe
07:55:46 <hober> ack Ralph_
07:55:47 <jeffh> dauwhe: sees usecase from book world where want to have chunks of books that are bundled
07:55:57 <jeffh> ...will submit issue re this
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07:56:44 <romain> s/to have chunks of books that are bundled/to have data storage for books that are bundled/
07:56:58 <jeffh> ?: origin named in the pkg will have assurances wrt security/priv, how will the distributor also p;rovide same priv assurances...
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07:57:28 <KenjiBaheux> ACTION: dauwhe to file an issue regarding use case from book world where want to have data storage for books that are bundled
07:58:38 <hober> q?
07:58:39 <jeffh> jy: dunno how to constrain distributor's priv practices. whoever links u to pkg already knows provided that to you, how you got to the distributor is visible in the way loading things on the web is today.  want to make the distirbutor request uncred'd which will help....
07:58:47 <jeffh> ...but may not be sufficient
07:59:20 <jeffh> annevk: origin question: if u wan to use an unsigned bundle on your own site, can it have the same origin as your site....?
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08:00:04 <bdekoz> official mozilla position is that SxG is considered harmful. See: https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/
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08:00:54 <jeffh> jy: <yes> if start url is same-origin can treat it that way, but in some cases it might ought to be cross-orig untrusted bundle, might need a flag (where?) to indicate that. a 2nd flag is if we have a signed bundle and the sig expires, do you need to re-fectch bundle over the network, bundle source should erhaps help here....
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08:01:13 <jeffh> jy: how do other UA vendors feel about the unsigned bits of this?
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08:01:25 <hober> q?
08:01:27 <jeffh> ?: they are less controversial than the signed bits  of this...
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08:02:05 <jeffh> ?: are we treating this as a redirect (in the context of web perf WG)
08:02:55 <zcorpan> s/?: /bdekoz: /
08:03:12 <zcorpan> RRSAgent, make minutes
08:03:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html zcorpan
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08:03:20 <jeffh> jy: as a redirect, if it causes probs with inter nal redirect count have to figure something out -- this wud be in fetch... (bdekoz is the questioner)
08:03:40 <jeffh> raymes: <something about cachcing>
08:03:53 <jeffh> jy: <missed>
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08:04:15 <jeffh> raymes: is bundle cached in <some special way?>
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08:04:50 <jeffh> kinuko: bundled resource is cached as usual. individual contained resources are not cached.
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08:05:20 <annevk> RRSAgent, minutes?
08:05:20 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'minutes'
08:05:25 <jeffh> jy: if u expose to svc wkr it is up to svc wkr (?)  -- this not spec'd yet
08:06:04 <jeffh> jy: slides URL:
08:06:14 <jyasskin> slides: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1NZeUbnZqtoOfPMG-V8K5ntj_9snhwfFekLVQoEk9MsM/edit#slide=id.p
08:06:29 <zcorpan> s/?: /bdekoz: /
08:06:32 <zcorpan> s/?: /bdekoz: /
08:06:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html Ralph
08:06:35 <jeffh> rrsagent, generate minutes
08:06:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-minutes.html jeffh
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08:58:28 <dauwhe> zakim, bye
08:58:28 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, wendyreid, zcorpan, Ralph_, jeffh, MasakazuKitahara, duga, hober, domfarolino, chrishtr, kinuko, drousso, romain, horo
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09:03:43 <tantek> RRSAgent, pointer?
09:03:43 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wpack-irc#T09-03-43
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09:16:46 <jeffh> q?
09:17:12 <tantek> jeffh, Zakim (who manages q) was dismissed by dauwhe above
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