IRC log of wot on 2019-09-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wot-irc
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rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
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present+
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meeting: Web of Things F2F, TPAC 2019
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23:51:31 [dsr]
chair: McCool
23:52:08 [dsr]
present+
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scribenick: dsr
00:04:36 [sebastian]
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00:05:05 [dsr]
Michael does some agenda bashing including ideas fo future F2F locations.
00:05:38 [dsr]
Topic: Use cases and requirements
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00:06:29 [hirata]
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00:06:31 [dsr]
McCool: The TAG were looking for the WG’s use cases and requirements work, this doesn’t existing in a formal way at present. We should rectify that.
00:07:24 [dsr]
Shows the next steps slide for the Munich WoT workshop
00:07:41 [dsr]
This has 3 columns: update, next and new
00:08:10 [dsr]
The WG Charter proposal relates to the Workshop results
00:09:18 [dsr]
One change is that following input from the Decentralised Identifier WG, McCool has renamed the corresponding work item from Identity to Identifier management.
00:10:05 [dsr]
McCool: any other ideas for the charter?
00:10:27 [dsr]
sebastian: we heard some comments about our approach to eventing …
00:10:29 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2019/Talks/TPAC/2019-09_WoT-AC.pdf McCool's slides
00:11:04 [kaz]
q+
00:11:06 [dsr]
… some thoughts about testing in respect to eventing
00:11:35 [dsr]
McCool: do we do testing or just interoperability
00:12:01 [dsr]
We have some testing gaps, including eventing
00:12:50 [dsr]
… some discussion about testing toolis
00:13:02 [dsr]
s/toolis/tools
00:13:28 [dsr]
ack kaz
00:14:16 [dsr]
Kaz: one question is how we report the output of the plugfests
00:15:07 [dsr]
Kaz: yesterday’s voice assistant breakout touched upon relation to WoT
00:15:29 [dsr]
McCool: we don’t yet have a work item on accessibility
00:15:42 [kaz]
s/one question is/2 points. first,/
00:15:53 [kaz]
s/yesterday's/2nd, yesterday's/
00:16:41 [dsr]
dsr: this is an opportunity to bring in some accessibility experts into the WG
00:16:54 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Toru_Kawaguchi, Kunihiko_Toumura, Ryuichi_Matsukura, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Takahisa_Suzuki, Dave_Raggett, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan
00:17:49 [dsr]
Topic: Ideation
00:18:59 [kaz]
present+ David_Ezell, Arnaud_LeHors, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Yoshiaki_Fukami, Suguru_Washio, Taki_Kamiya, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Hayato_Shinmachi
00:19:16 [dsr]
Slides on possible use cases for 2nd generation of WoT standard
00:19:34 [dsr]
Presented by NRI
00:20:26 [dsr]
(slides to be archived later)
00:20:33 [inamori_]
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00:21:07 [dsr]
Japanese Web community have been thinking about ideas for future WoT standards
00:21:19 [kaz]
present+ Minobu_Abe, Takuki_Nankou, Shinjiro_Urata, Kaname_Takano, Diego_Ferreiro, Keisuke_Minami, Hiroki_Endo, Nonoka_Jinushi, Hiroshi_Fujisawa, Takeshi_Yamada, Tetsuhiko_Hirata, Shinya_Abe
00:21:40 [kaz]
s/Ideation/Ideathon/
00:21:56 [dsr]
(NRI = Nomura Research Institute)
00:22:28 [kaz]
@@@slides tbd
00:22:49 [kaz]
rrsagetn, make log public
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rrsagent, make log public
00:22:55 [dsr]
An “Ideathon” took place on 23-24 August 2019 with 22 participants
00:23:02 [kaz]
s/rrsagetn, make log public//
00:23:07 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
00:23:43 [dsr]
Slides full of detailed content (very small print)
00:24:52 [dsr]
One example is a “Poop checker”
00:25:32 [kaz]
s/fo future/for future/
00:25:38 [dsr]
This is a medical diagnosis application
00:26:11 [kaz]
i/Michael does some/topic: Logistics and Agenda discussion/
00:26:48 [dsr]
and comes with a list of potential devices, e.g. toilet with sensors, smart speaker etc.
00:27:21 [dsr]
and some requirements related to the WoT WG charter
00:29:02 [dsr]
Michael: that reminds me that we have yet to address orchestration across multiple devices
00:29:32 [dsr]
2nd use case involving a camping car
00:30:03 [dsr]
(mobile home)
00:31:02 [kaz]
present+ Ken_Ebert, Phil_Archer
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00:36:19 [kaz]
q?
00:36:39 [dsr]
3rd use case is a security robot, e.g. to inform people when someone is breaking into their home
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00:36:44 [sebastian]
q+
00:36:49 [dsr]
This is an autonomous vehicle …
00:36:56 [dsr]
the use case also includes wearable devices
00:37:01 [dsr]
the use case also includes wearable devices
00:37:04 [kaz]
ack seb
00:37:11 [dsr]
3rd use case is a security robot, e.g. to inform people when someone is breaking into their home
00:37:16 [McCool]
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00:38:19 [dsr]
This use case has requirements in respect to: link relation types, interoperability profile, complex interactions, discovery, privacy and security
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00:39:13 [sebastian]
q?
00:39:35 [dsr]
Dave: I am involved in a new European research project (GATEKEEPER) on applying WoT to healthcare, including early diagnosis of medical conditions
00:40:14 [dsr]
McCool: we are especially interested in new requirements
00:40:41 [dsr]
some discussion on linking types
00:41:39 [dsr]
McCool: is there a way to ask the workshop participants in case we have questions?
00:41:48 [dsr]
Answer: yes
00:41:52 [dsr]
(via email)
00:42:48 [dsr]
McCool: I will shortly talk about a template for use case descriptions for our work item on use cases and requirements
00:43:48 [dsr]
In the context of these slides - what columns we expect
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The slides have idea (title), overview (short description), devices involved and data (what data is involved)
00:45:18 [dsr]
sebastian: I like this general approach, but also like preconditions, the goal to be reached and the expected outcome for each use case
00:47:25 [dsr]
Are we describing a problem only or a problem and a solution to that problem
00:48:18 [dsr]
slides providing a summary of the ideathon
00:49:04 [shouqun]
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00:49:23 [dsr]
(text too small to see from back of room)
00:53:29 [dsr]
One challenge is who will pay for sensors in public spaces
00:53:49 [dsr]
The method of trading data, …
00:54:15 [dsr]
An issue of how we can set up databases
00:54:57 [dsr]
Role of local government and secure management of data
00:55:35 [dsr]
Any questions? [no]
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[round of applause in thanks for the NRI input]
00:56:45 [dsr]
Michael shows slides on use cases and requirements
00:57:04 [kaz]
@@@slides tbd
00:57:51 [dsr]
The TAG asked us to prepare more formal use cases and requirements. Alan Bird further suggested we should note the business justification for use cases.
00:58:18 [dsr]
We also need to ensure that the use cases have the consensus of the WG
00:58:40 [dape_]
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We further need to do this before starting significant work
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00:59:27 [dsr]
Where work has already started, we need to go back and document the use cases that justify the work
00:59:48 [dsr]
Michael proposes some ideas for templates for use cases
01:00:51 [dsr]
The suggestion that we start with a concise user story - as a type of user, I want to achieve some goal so that some thing is realised
01:01:36 [dsr]
e.g. as a developer I want ease of use so that I can develop WoT apps faster
01:01:59 [dsr]
We need to define categories of users
01:02:44 [dsr]
We should classify the use cases into those that are accepted, those that are proposed and awaiting a decision, and those that are rejected
01:02:53 [dezell]
q+
01:03:16 [dsr]
We can start by brain storming some some possible requirements
01:03:28 [dsr]
and then decide which ones are crucial
01:04:04 [dsr]
We should try to define the problem but not the technical solution
01:04:42 [kaz]
q?
01:04:45 [dsr]
ack dezell
01:05:24 [dsr]
dezell: rejected is a little harsh as a term, use cases should be archived even if not deemed important
01:06:10 [dsr]
Michael: some use cases could be out of scope
01:06:26 [dsr]
Similar approach is needed for the WG’s design decisions
01:06:41 [dsr]
We need a clear process and record of decisions
01:07:29 [dsr]
Which decisions were accepted and which were rejected
01:07:44 [kaz]
q+
01:07:46 [dsr]
sebastian: what kind of use cases would we want?
01:08:24 [dsr]
Michael: my view is that use cases should be user oriented, e.g. as a businessman, I want to …
01:09:09 [dsr]
Dave: we should emphasise use cases that motivate companies to adopt and exploit the web of things
01:09:43 [kaz]
-> https://w3c.github.io/mmi/usecases/Overview.html mmi use cases
01:10:09 [dsr]
Michael: the issue tracker tends to be a little free form, and we need to extract and formalise our descriptions of use cases, requirements and design decisions
01:10:28 [kaz]
ack k
01:11:03 [kaz]
kaz: agree it would be nicer to have a compiled document (and provides an example above)
01:11:26 [dsr]
Michael slows his ideas for how we could apply this to WoT profiles as an example of a template structure
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01:12:03 [dsr]
[link?]
01:12:36 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-profile/blob/master/REQUIREMENTS.md Michael's initial proposal
01:13:22 [dsr]
Michael talks us through the proposed structure
01:13:59 [kaz]
s|/w3c/|/mmcool/|
01:14:51 [dsr]
Michael: for example as a home user, I want to know that a given device will work in my home environment
01:16:23 [dsr]
The next step is to turn this into an actual template
01:16:50 [dsr]
Kaz: we could start with this and use github issues for managing use cases
01:17:41 [dsr]
Any comments on this template? [no]
01:17:43 [kaz]
s/managing use cases/managing use cases, but we need to generate a compiled use cases document in the end./
01:17:52 [dsr]
sebastian: what is the timeline for this work?
01:19:01 [dezell]
q+ to ask about process and reference
01:19:31 [dsr]
Michael: I think by March, we should have this in a good shape
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01:20:28 [dsr]
Dave:do you expect to have both use cases and requirements and design decisions by March?
01:20:41 [dsr]
Michael: there’s actually four things …
01:21:25 [dsr]
Dave: another point is how we can relate this to our horizontal review plan
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01:21:47 [dsr]
Michael: we need to get such review early and often
01:22:36 [dezell]
q-
01:22:48 [dsr]
Dave: we need to ask for review when we have work in a good enough state for reviewers to justify their time
01:23:36 [kaz]
-> https://w3c.github.io/mmi/usecases/Overview.html MMI use case document as another example
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01:23:59 [kaz]
-> https://w3c.github.io/mmi/usecases/Overview.html MMI use case document as another example
01:24:37 [dsr]
Michael shows the MMI WG’s WG Note for their use cases
01:25:15 [dsr]
These seem to lack a clear structure
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01:26:35 [dsr]
The motivation has some questions in italics from a template
01:27:02 [dsr]
s/These seem to lack a clear structure//
01:27:07 [dape]
q+
01:27:33 [dsr]
Michael: the use case needs to clarify the time sequencing in the story
01:27:56 [dsr]
dezell: how do you differentiate a use case from a use story?
01:28:12 [dsr]
s/use story/user story
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01:29:00 [dsr]
Michael: a use case is more formal
01:29:23 [dsr]
dezell: I am happy whichever way you go, but please be consistent
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01:30:27 [dape]
http://w3c.github.io/wot/ucr-doc/
01:30:43 [dsr]
Dave: we could talk to the TAG, and ask in the chairs list for comments and input on the process and templates for use cases
01:31:35 [dsr]
Michael: we should allocate further time for this in future calls
01:32:05 [dsr]
Kaz: do we want to set up a task force to guide this?
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01:32:36 [dsr]
Michael: let’s discuss that in the next call as we’re out of time now
01:33:05 [kaz]
[break till 10:45]
01:33:11 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:33:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
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01:52:04 [dezell]
scribenick: dezell
01:52:16 [dsr]
Topic: WoT Testing Framework
01:52:28 [dezell]
Topic: WoT Testing Framework
01:52:42 [dezell]
presenter: Ege Korkan, Siemens AG
01:53:24 [Shinya]
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01:53:30 [dezell]
ege: working move the playground to the JSON-LD model
01:54:17 [minobu]
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01:54:47 [dezell]
See: https://github.com/thingweb/thingweb-playground
01:54:55 [kaz]
@@@ slides tbd
01:55:02 [dezell]
(Note: presentation will be linked from the agenda.
01:55:29 [Mizushima]
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01:56:07 [dezell]
ege: new features - live validation, saving TD as a gist online, filling the editor with an example TD
01:56:15 [dezell]
...: a gist must always be valid.
01:56:26 [dape]
q+
01:57:00 [McCool]
q?
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01:57:25 [dezell]
kaz: thought there would be some automatic saving.
01:57:50 [dezell]
xyzzy: there is some confusion on this point, it's more of the capability to share.
01:58:09 [dezell]
McCool: we also need to "feed" some repository.
01:58:52 [kaz]
s/xyzzy:/daniel:/
01:59:22 [dezell]
ege: the idea is to make creating a new TD simple and quick.
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01:59:54 [dezell]
McCool: a selection of templates might be a good idea.
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02:00:33 [dezell]
ege: more new features - optional assertion testing on front-end, importing a TD, better error messages.
02:01:18 [dezell]
McCool: error could link back to TD to explain what failed.
02:01:40 [dezell]
ege: (demo of the page for Thing Description Playground)
02:01:48 [dape]
http://plugfest.thingweb.io/playground/
02:02:05 [kaz]
present+ Eric_Siow, Yefeng_Xia
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02:02:46 [dezell]
...: there is the ability to enter an example invalid TD to check operations.
02:03:19 [dezell]
McCool: we need to see all the errors, not just the most recent.
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02:04:10 [dezell]
ege: the tool will automatically validate the TD, with line/column.
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02:05:02 [dezell]
...: "gistify" allows you to name and save the contents. But you must be logged in to save.
02:06:04 [dape]
https://gist.github.com/
02:07:07 [dezell]
...: so you can save these TDs without resorting to external storage.
02:07:43 [dezell]
McCool: It would be great to have this automatic checking available for people to use with their own repos (on checkin).
02:08:10 [dezell]
...: "integrated tooling for git."
02:08:43 [dezell]
ege: question - do we want to make the set of "gists" somehow official?
02:09:13 [kaz]
s/thought there would be some automatic saving./do you mean all the TD submission would be automatically validated every time using some plugin (like pr-preview)?/
02:10:15 [dezell]
McCool: we should talk about whether we want TD integrated into regular W3C git repositories.
02:11:09 [kaz]
present+ Shouqun_Liu
02:11:10 [dezell]
dsr: there's a lot of complexity about using W3C logos or making broad claims about compatibility.
02:11:27 [dezell]
...: reports of compliance are always based on trust (today).
02:11:53 [dezell]
McCool: but it would be helpful to know that trust is backed up with tests.
02:12:18 [dezell]
sebastian: can you query all tests related to a TD (gist).
02:12:33 [dezell]
s/)\./)\?/
02:13:12 [dezell]
ege: you can explore your gists, but there's no direct query - github doesn't know a gist from other things that you put in there.
02:14:10 [dezell]
...: we could improve things by allowing >only< gists.
02:15:29 [dezell]
...: future work - should we have ... 1) script based validation as an npm package, 2) a server to send TDs and get validation results.
02:16:31 [dezell]
McCool: a separate server would be helpful for those who don't want to install Node.
02:16:58 [dezell]
ege: behavior testing:
02:17:20 [dezell]
...: - tool to fuzz test all interactions of the TD
02:17:42 [dezell]
...: - test bench is being updated to generate .csv
02:18:47 [dezell]
...: Also ability to test external things against TD (e.g., messages are schema valid)
02:19:58 [dezell]
McCool: this discussion raises the issue "are properties static"?
02:20:56 [dezell]
ege: deployment options - need opinions:
02:21:04 [dezell]
...: - as an online server
02:21:17 [dezell]
...: - installing locally (own machine)
02:21:31 [dezell]
...: - testing from own browser (limited to HTTP)
02:22:18 [dezell]
s/server/server, allows only online exposed things/
02:22:54 [dezell]
s/machine/machine, installation overhead/
02:23:58 [dezell]
McCool: seems there are two cases - testing real devices and testing simulated devices.
02:24:02 [dezell]
...: need to do both.
02:24:22 [dezell]
...: "browser" option is a convenience for getting started.
02:25:37 [dezell]
daniel: first and third are the same in terms of the UI, whereas the second is potentially different.
02:26:40 [dezell]
ege: consumer testing (consumes messages)
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02:27:36 [dezell]
...: clinet-data-schema, client-data-schema-accept-extras, client-data-schema-no-extras, client-uri-template
02:28:24 [dezell]
...: given a TD, npm can create a Virtual Thing: can generate a report, or be hosted online on Thingweb.
02:29:18 [dezell]
...: important to identify TDs that cover many features, making sure of a thorough client test.
02:30:27 [dezell]
McCool: would like to use virtual things for testing, but also monitor traffic between a real thing and real client and diagnose the health.
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02:32:29 [dezell]
ege: behavior testing: break them
02:32:52 [dezell]
...: - safety testing (invalid inputs to exposed thing, returning invalid data to consumers)
02:33:34 [dezell]
...: - security testing (pen-testing based on security information, invalid security information on ETs)
02:33:45 [dezell]
s/exposed thing/Exposed Thing/
02:34:43 [dezell]
McCool: any questions?
02:34:50 [dezell]
Answer [no].
02:35:05 [taki]
scribe: TK
02:35:10 [taki]
scribenick: taki
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02:36:36 [taki]
Sebastian: wants to discuss WoT Web Presence.
02:36:58 [taki]
Sebastian: first set of deliverables are ready soon.
02:37:16 [taki]
Sebastian: I met lots of poeple who are interested.
02:37:44 [taki]
Sebastian: It is difficult to provide something for them to read and learn, such as introduction.
02:38:01 [kaz]
i/wants to discuss WoT Web Presence/topic: Marketing/
02:38:08 [taki]
Sebastian: I am contributing to other consortia. OPC-UA, eClass, etc.
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02:38:38 [taki]
Sebastian: easiest way is first to fix our web page.
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02:38:48 [taki]
Sebastian: we have plenty of web pages now on W3C site.
02:39:05 [taki]
Sebastian: Not very helpful for newcomes.
02:39:14 [taki]
Sebastian: they do not care IG/WG etc.
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02:39:27 [taki]
McCool: entry point is important.
02:39:43 [taki]
McCool: other pages can be elsewhere.
02:40:12 [taki]
Eric: WoT is messed up, complicated multiple IoT/
02:40:23 [kaz]
s/entry point/the WoT landing page as the entry point/
02:40:42 [taki]
Eric: people not engineer want to deploy smart city, etc.
02:40:59 [taki]
Eric: will hire consultant.
02:41:13 [taki]
Eric: They look at W3C WoT side. it does not resonate now.
02:41:23 [taki]
Eric: business people control budget.
02:41:33 [taki]
Eric: cannot only cater engineer.
02:41:46 [taki]
Eric: have to communicate to business people who control budget.
02:42:03 [taki]
Eric: need to think abuot customer base.
02:42:56 [taki]
Eric: slide show / video show that describes problem statement (e.g. smart city). Up-level it, script it so that business people can understand.
02:43:15 [taki]
McCool: up-level does not necessarily mean abstract. still needs to be concrete.
02:43:26 [taki]
McCool: we need concrete examples.
02:43:40 [taki]
Eric: up-level means speaking to architect.
02:44:06 [taki]
Sebastian: Next question. where are pain points now?
02:44:14 [taki]
Sebastian: three different web pages.
02:44:34 [taki]
Sebastian: newcomers think what are the relationship?
02:44:45 [taki]
McCool: entry point should describe that.
02:44:55 [taki]
Daniel: the pages should look the same.
02:45:12 [taki]
McCool: they can search and get to sub-page.
02:45:26 [taki]
McCool: we can re-design URI
02:45:31 [taki]
s/URI/UI/
02:45:50 [taki]
Daniel: home button etc. UI needs to be consistent.
02:45:56 [taki]
McCool: normalization.
02:46:07 [taki]
McCool: and there is structure issue.
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02:46:49 [taki]
McCool: navigation issue is one.
02:47:07 [Suguru]
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02:47:37 [taki]
McCool: we need volunteers.
02:47:42 [hiata]
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02:47:51 [taki]
McCool: to fix navigation problem immediately.
02:47:51 [dezell]
q+
02:48:06 [taki]
Daniel: three different pages now.
02:48:24 [taki]
McCool: longer term, we need to clean up.
02:48:36 [dape]
ack dape
02:49:00 [taki]
Dave: there are short-time and long-time issues.
02:49:30 [taki]
Daniel: current status, goals and how to get there. we need to think about this.
02:50:03 [taki]
Sebastian: we are staring a new charter. need to think about branding.
02:50:26 [taki]
Eric: How do you explain DID to laymen.
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02:51:06 [taki]
Eric: I have my own "close line".
02:51:24 [taki]
Eric: to explain complex thing to laymen.
02:51:35 [taki]
Eric: I can help in this effort.
02:52:02 [taki]
David: domains are important.
02:52:33 [taki]
Dave: top-level entry page is up to us.
02:52:52 [taki]
David: It used to be cleverer before.
02:53:27 [taki]
McCool: what resource does W3C have for help?
02:53:32 [taki]
Dave: very little.
02:54:15 [taki]
Dave: use cases is more important than navigation issue.
02:54:32 [taki]
McCool: Do we want to create marketing TF?
02:54:46 [taki]
Sebastian: We used to have marketing TF before.
02:55:08 [taki]
McCool: It is a short-time focused project.
02:55:24 [taki]
McCool: Dave and Kaz can initially help on landing page issue.
02:55:52 [taki]
Daniel: we tried before, but there were lots of restrictions by W3C.
02:56:01 [taki]
Dave: I can help on getting permission.
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02:56:12 [taki]
Dave: W3C has flat structure.
02:56:24 [taki]
Dave: each group has independence.
02:56:29 [kaz]
q+
02:56:53 [taki]
Dave: we first need to think about function.
02:57:15 [taki]
Dave: then think about what do we want to say.
02:57:57 [taki]
McCool: let's separate short-term and long-term tasks.
02:58:07 [taki]
McCool: Landing page content is long-term.
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02:59:03 [taki]
McCool: there are also medium term tasks such as launching landing pages.
02:59:25 [taki]
Kaz: we need to think about concrete use cases and requirements about this.
02:59:46 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2019/html/ html wg page
03:00:04 [taki]
Kaz: HTML WG has automatically generated page, for example. I am not proposing anything.
03:00:31 [taki]
Kaz: Our WG page and IG page can be automatic.
03:00:41 [taki]
Daniel: we should reduce complexity.
03:00:53 [taki]
Daniel: from business people's perspective.
03:01:00 [taki]
Kaz: I am not suggeting anything.
03:01:08 [taki]
Kaz: We need to clarify issues.
03:01:38 [taki]
McCool: we can incrementally change instead of radical big change.
03:01:51 [kaz]
s/issues/issues and requirements, i.e., what kind of information should be included in which page/
03:01:58 [taki]
Dave: we need to regularly invest time.
03:02:11 [taki]
McCool: let's think about action items.
03:02:28 [taki]
McCool: marketing TF sill the end of year.
03:02:35 [taki]
McCool: we need a repo.
03:02:39 [kaz]
s/Our WG page and IG page can be automatic/possibly our WG pae and IG page can be automatically generated like that./
03:02:43 [taki]
McCool: we need to discuss in main call.
03:02:54 [taki]
McCool: somebody needs to make strawman proposal.
03:03:15 [taki]
McCool: we need to define concrete action items.
03:03:29 [taki]
Dave: we need to invest time.
03:03:33 [kaz]
s/I am not suggesting anything./please note that I'm not suggesting we should use this automatic generation mechanism for WoT. This is just one of the possible options/
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03:03:57 [taki]
McCool: I am also going to joint marketing TF.
03:03:59 [kaz]
s/We need to/My point is that we need to/
03:04:12 [taki]
Sebastian: at least fix the short-time tasks by the next F2F.
03:04:14 [kaz]
s/going to joint/going to join the/
03:04:30 [taki]
McCool: obviously wrong things.
03:04:43 [taki]
McCool: eg. delete ancient content.
03:05:01 [taki]
Dave: procedure?
03:05:19 [taki]
McCool: Sebastian to create strawman.
03:05:33 [taki]
Ege: twitter account can be considered.
03:05:43 [taki]
McCool: it is a long term task.
03:06:01 [taki]
McCool: let's create a wikipage for marketing TF.
03:06:12 [taki]
Kaz: and GitHub right?
03:06:21 [taki]
McCool: yes and doodle poll.
03:06:41 [taki]
McCool: task list should be discussed using email.
03:07:11 [taki]
McCool: 2 weeks from now we have a main call and have strawman discussed.
03:08:33 [kaz]
[lunch till 1pm; room locked till 12:50]
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04:04:26 [azaroth]
present+ Rob_Sanderson
04:04:31 [gkellogg_]
present+ Gregg_Kellogg
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04:04:43 [azaroth]
present+ ivan
04:04:47 [azaroth]
present+ bigbluehat
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04:07:18 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
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04:07:28 [dezell]
present+
04:07:39 [kaz]
topic: Joint Meeting with JSON-LD WG
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04:08:03 [kaz]
sk: we had good discussion during TPAC 2018
04:08:07 [dape]
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04:08:15 [kaz]
... helpful to clarify issues
04:08:45 [kaz]
... would talk about the current status and issues closed
04:08:56 [kaz]
... unfortunately, Victor is not here
04:09:14 [inamori_]
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04:09:14 [kaz]
... he takes care of the mapping, etc.
04:09:23 [kaz]
@@@slides tbd
04:09:29 [kaz]
sk: 2 topics here
04:09:39 [kaz]
... container object for TD security definition
04:09:49 [kaz]
... and
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04:10:17 [kaz]
... note on the difference between a JSON-LD context and an RDF vocab
04:10:28 [kaz]
ih: magic source :)
04:10:44 [kaz]
sk: what are the LD features, etc.
04:10:52 [kaz]
mm: one more thing about JSON vs JSON-LD
04:11:04 [kaz]
... maybe would add a new feature?
04:11:22 [kaz]
sk: wot architecture issue?
04:11:24 [kaz]
mm: right
04:11:36 [kaz]
... nice to consider that issue as well
04:11:54 [kaz]
ih: for the last one, we'll have a session about that
04:12:09 [kaz]
... at 2pm during the JSON-LD meeting
04:12:14 [ege]
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04:12:59 [kaz]
ms: how to address who wants to use JSON vs JSON-LD?
04:13:02 [ege]
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04:13:08 [kaz]
... if we have time, let's chat about that
04:13:31 [kaz]
sk: let's start with the first issue
04:13:36 [kaz]
... [Container Objects]
04:13:55 [kaz]
... use case: a WoT developer writes a TD for a "Thing" ...
04:14:05 [kaz]
... [Container Objects (example TD)]
04:14:12 [zkis]
present+ Zoltan_Kis
04:14:22 [kaz]
... left side: the current TD
04:14:27 [kaz]
... right side: new proposal
04:14:38 [kaz]
... (enlarge the example TD)
04:15:17 [kaz]
... security scheme is mandatory
04:15:29 [kaz]
... then you can assign some interactions here
04:15:38 [kaz]
... which scheme to be applied
04:15:46 [kaz]
... basic, basic and psk
04:15:49 [kaz]
... on the right hand
04:16:04 [kaz]
s/new proposal/no container/
04:16:16 [kaz]
... equivalent TD with no container
04:16:42 [kaz]
... unexpected repetition of "basic" here and there
04:16:59 [kaz]
... w3c/json-ld-syntax
04:17:13 [sebastian]
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04:17:15 [sebastian]
https://github.com/w3c/json-ld-syntax/issues/19
04:17:29 [kaz]
s/syntax/syntax issue 19/
04:17:38 [kaz]
... Indexing without a predicate
04:17:42 [azaroth]
The resolution for api#19 resulted in this section of the current spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld11/#included-nodes
04:17:49 [kaz]
... (shows the example data)
04:18:02 [kaz]
s/.../sk: /
04:18:14 [kaz]
sk: maybe you can comment on this
04:18:41 [kaz]
azaroth: issue 19 resolution above
04:18:53 [kaz]
... (shows 4.7 Included Nodes)
04:19:01 [kaz]
... there are 2 nodes
04:19:19 [kaz]
... minor change here
04:19:28 [kaz]
... id was a key for match
04:19:41 [kaz]
... (enum#c6 and enum#s2)
04:20:06 [kaz]
... classification for the same URI
04:20:36 [kaz]
... this could be a solution for your issue
04:20:52 [kaz]
... here is the definition (Example 104)
04:21:38 [kaz]
gk: inline or embed
04:21:48 [kaz]
mm: question is normalization
04:21:59 [kaz]
... normalized version may be clean
04:22:18 [kaz]
sk: update context by included nodes
04:22:23 [kaz]
... sounds good
04:23:44 [kaz]
gk: note that not included in the context any more
04:24:22 [kaz]
azaroth: options to offer inline or embed
04:24:31 [kaz]
sk: sounds very good
04:24:43 [kaz]
... next
04:24:49 [kaz]
... Context vs Vocabulary
04:25:06 [kaz]
... how to make this clearer?
04:25:28 [kaz]
... many people have a look at context
04:25:34 [kaz]
... class definition here
04:25:38 [kaz]
... but based on RDF
04:26:12 [kaz]
azaroth: one of the non-REC track document about primer
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04:26:20 [kaz]
... nice to describe this point
04:26:32 [kaz]
... we expect to work on a primer
04:26:48 [kaz]
... explain JSON-LD to more developers
04:27:30 [kaz]
gk: in JSON-LD 1.0, we didn't really talked about the issue
04:27:49 [kaz]
... similar to other RDF notation
04:28:25 [azaroth]
q?
04:28:59 [kaz]
ack dezell
04:29:01 [kaz]
ack kaz
04:29:04 [kaz]
ack ...
04:29:04 [Zakim]
..., you wanted to comment on the right
04:29:36 [kaz]
sk: there is discussion on automotive vocabulary
04:29:42 [kaz]
... could be reused for WoT purposes
04:30:18 [azaroth]
q+
04:30:30 [kaz]
ms: here is a real problem
04:30:55 [hEndo]
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04:32:27 [kaz]
... we need to think about a tool so that people don't need to understand the detail of RDF
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04:33:10 [kaz]
mm: good idea to have a simple framework for that
04:35:02 [kaz]
mm: naive people don't care RDF at all
04:35:14 [azaroth]
ack azaroth
04:35:33 [kaz]
azaroth: confusion about what "mapping" means
04:35:49 [kaz]
... RDF class to resource
04:35:55 [kaz]
... only for mapping existing terms
04:36:02 [kaz]
... not creating new data
04:36:17 [bigbluehat]
q+ ssstolk
04:36:39 [kaz]
ih: you define constraint
04:36:59 [bigbluehat]
q+ bigbluehat
04:37:00 [kaz]
... it's a super version of abbreviation
04:37:04 [minobu]
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04:37:18 [kaz]
... not only listing but describing
04:37:33 [azaroth]
ack ssstolk
04:37:36 [kaz]
mm: maybe related to another issue on validation too
04:37:38 [yoshiaki]
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04:38:01 [kaz]
ssstolk: there is a construction infrastructure
04:38:13 [kaz]
... help create semantic definitions
04:38:22 [kaz]
... magic terms as linked data
04:38:27 [kaz]
... want to share
04:39:11 [azaroth]
ack bigbluehat
04:39:19 [kaz]
... need to consider what is relevant to users
04:39:30 [kaz]
q+ mccool
04:39:56 [kaz]
bigbluehat: not going to the context but another resource
04:40:03 [kaz]
ack mc
04:40:11 [azaroth]
q+ manu
04:40:12 [kaz]
mm: good example is security vocabulary
04:40:38 [kaz]
... now we're using JSON Schema
04:40:49 [kaz]
... problem with additional features
04:40:54 [gkellogg_]
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04:41:08 [kaz]
... how to validate the extensiosn
04:41:15 [kaz]
s/extensiosn/extensions/
04:41:17 [manu-wot]
Q+
04:41:22 [bigbluehat]
q+
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04:41:26 [azaroth]
q- manu
04:41:29 [kaz]
ih: another WG working on JSON-LD vocabulary
04:41:41 [kaz]
... we can normatively refer it
04:41:52 [kaz]
... SHACL is probably a machine gun
04:42:01 [kaz]
... become complicated
04:42:06 [kaz]
... it depends what you need
04:42:18 [kaz]
... JSON Schema may be alright
04:42:24 [kaz]
q+ mccool
04:42:27 [azaroth]
ack manu-wot
04:42:42 [kaz]
ms: in VCWG, we have the same issue
04:42:43 [azaroth]
q+ to ask if extensions live in a particular property, or can be anywhere
04:42:52 [kaz]
... variety of different languages
04:43:03 [kaz]
... we can say this object conforms to this schema
04:43:11 [kaz]
... whatever schema to be included
04:43:17 [kaz]
... that said
04:43:24 [kaz]
... very strong preference for JSON Schema
04:43:41 [kaz]
q?
04:44:02 [kaz]
... a lot of APIs would take data in the auth of wire
04:44:14 [kaz]
... most implementations force you to give JSON in a certain form
04:44:31 [yoshiaki_]
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04:44:40 [kaz]
... use of JSON Schema help us enforce semantics
04:44:42 [kaz]
q?
04:44:46 [azaroth]
ack bigbluehat
04:45:22 [yoshiaki_]
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04:46:08 [azaroth]
q-
04:46:08 [kaz]
bigbluehat: you can still validate before processing context
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04:46:23 [manu-wot]
q+ for no jsonld processing
04:46:24 [kaz]
sk: another question on JSON vs JSON-LD?
04:46:33 [kaz]
mm: yes, that's our priority
04:47:02 [kaz]
sk: shows issue 371
04:47:10 [kaz]
... TAG interoperability concerns
04:47:38 [kaz]
... do you have the same problem?
04:47:59 [kaz]
bigbluehat: you can use any names for your local vocabulary
04:48:02 [kaz]
q?
04:48:18 [kaz]
mm: original point is JSON within JSON-LD
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04:48:21 [azaroth]
q+
04:48:32 [azaroth]
ack McCool
04:48:40 [azaroth]
ack manu-wot
04:48:40 [Zakim]
manu-wot, you wanted to discuss no jsonld processing
04:48:40 [bigbluehat]
q+
04:48:52 [azaroth]
ack azaroth
04:49:12 [kaz]
rob: wanted to say "don't do that"
04:49:26 [kaz]
gk: core usage of JSON-LD is you take the data
04:49:31 [manu-wot]
q+ to say CBOR-LD
04:49:55 [kaz]
mm: the spec doesn't allow to rename things
04:50:04 [manu-wot]
Q-
04:50:11 [azaroth]
ack bigbluehat
04:50:31 [kaz]
by: if there is another community working on different vocabulary
04:50:40 [azaroth]
q+ to talk about gateways
04:50:52 [azaroth]
ack azaroth
04:50:52 [Zakim]
azaroth, you wanted to talk about gateways
04:50:53 [kaz]
... the question is when do you want to check it (before/after the conversion)
04:51:04 [kaz]
gk: reframe the data
04:51:11 [kaz]
rob: data passes transformations
04:51:21 [kaz]
... a very easy gateway
04:51:30 [manu-wot]
q+ to note always support no jsonld processing.
04:51:33 [kaz]
... to convert input context to output context
04:51:56 [kaz]
... not interoperability concern but implementation concern
04:52:06 [dape]
+q
04:52:21 [kaz]
q+
04:53:47 [kaz]
sk: we're responsible how it should be done
04:53:55 [azaroth]
ack kaz
04:54:21 [dape]
ack dape
04:54:26 [kaz]
kaz: do we want to explain that to David?
04:54:34 [kaz]
mm: make response on GH?
04:55:09 [kaz]
ih: btw, 2 more weeks for CR :)
04:55:17 [kaz]
s/CR/JSON-LD CR/
04:55:28 [kaz]
gk: at least by the end of October
04:55:50 [mlagally]
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04:55:53 [kaz]
ms: the WG basically ended up that JSON-LD is the normative stuff
04:56:02 [kaz]
... that's the right answer
04:56:15 [kaz]
.. we say in our spec you must add @context and everybody has to process it
04:56:26 [kaz]
... WoT context should be located at the top
04:56:38 [kaz]
... you can specify another file
04:56:59 [azaroth]
Timeline for CR has the following switches: 2 weeks to process existing editorial issues (mostly typos) ; + 2 weeks if we need to deal with text direction ; + 2 weeks if we need to revise the version announcement
04:56:59 [kaz]
... overlay comes second
04:57:12 [kaz]
sk: do you have an example?
04:58:03 [kaz]
ms: Verifiable Credentials Data Model
04:58:12 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2019/PR-vc-data-model-20190905/ Verifiable Credentials Data Model
04:58:51 [kaz]
ih: if people want to use the basic capability don't need to use JSON-LD
04:59:57 [dape]
scribe: dape
05:00:15 [dape]
TOPIC: Discovery
05:00:44 [dape]
MMQ: Presentation is checked in already
05:01:00 [McCool]
https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/PRESENTATIONS/2019-09_WoT-Discovery.pdf
05:01:17 [kaz]
i|Discovery|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/REC-annotation-model-20170223/ Web Annotation Data Model as another example|
05:01:22 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
05:01:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
05:01:25 [dape]
s/MMQ/MCC
05:01:53 [ssstolk]
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05:01:56 [dape]
MCC: "Disovery" part of charter
05:02:09 [dape]
... Requirements
05:02:12 [dlehn]
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05:02:44 [dape]
... distribution mechanism of TDs
05:02:45 [Mizushima_]
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05:02:49 [mlagally]
Good afternoon - can you hear our audio?
05:03:28 [mlagally]
Yes, it works one way. Zoltan and I can also hear each other
05:03:37 [dape]
... Capabilities: local/global discovery, semantic queries, directories, peer-to-peer
05:05:07 [dape]
... Privacy-Preserve Architecture: Device & Information Lifecyle, authorized users
05:06:13 [mlagally]
@kaz: seems not to work
05:07:06 [mlagally]
now with echo
05:07:35 [mlagally]
echo got crazy
05:07:45 [mlagally]
n oaudio at all
05:07:51 [mlagally]
no audio at all
05:09:02 [dape]
... Alignment with existing standards
05:09:32 [dape]
... get others on board, e.g., IETF core resource directories
05:09:45 [dape]
... core link format
05:10:04 [kaz]
remote+ Elena, Lagally, Zoltan
05:10:54 [dape]
... Singapur meeting is a change to get in contact
05:11:28 [dape]
... Optional: support for scripting API
05:12:01 [dape]
... Proposal: Two Phase Discovery
05:12:16 [dape]
... find out adress to next step
05:12:31 [dape]
... adress has no information per se
05:12:43 [dape]
s/adress/address
05:13:11 [dape]
... afterwards, I authenticate service
05:13:39 [dape]
... with authorization I can do queries et cetera
05:14:14 [dape]
... simple queries vs full semantic power
05:14:53 [dape]
... directory can run in cloud, gateway, ...
05:15:51 [dape]
... registration might need to be refrehsed
05:16:22 [dsr]
q+
05:16:36 [kaz]
q+
05:16:39 [kaz]
ack manu
05:16:39 [Zakim]
manu-wot, you wanted to note always support no jsonld processing.
05:16:40 [dape]
... well-known/td could be used as a "known" entry point
05:16:58 [zkis]
q+
05:17:40 [mlagally]
q+
05:17:43 [dape]
DSR: how can I advertise a service that can be tight to a device?
05:18:36 [dape]
MCC: discussion with Zoltan about management API
05:19:17 [dape]
q?
05:20:10 [dape]
DSR: we need to look at this broader aspect.. incubation is good with that regard
05:21:04 [NJ]
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05:21:39 [dape]
MCC: I do think this is not prevented
05:21:50 [taki]
+q
05:22:04 [dape]
ack dape
05:22:08 [dape]
ack dsr
05:22:10 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-mmi-discovery-20120705/ MMI registration&discovery UCR Note
05:22:24 [dsr]
There will be a market for applications for managing and exploiting devices, and the need for integrating this with the discovery model described bt McCool
05:22:37 [dsr]
s/bt/by
05:22:39 [dape]
Kaz: Agree, we should generate use-cases for discovery
05:22:47 [dape]
q?
05:22:51 [kaz]
ack kaz
05:23:13 [kaz]
s/Kaz: Agree, we should generate use-cases for discovery//
05:23:14 [dape]
ML: where are these requirements coming from?
05:23:25 [dape]
MCC: first draft I came up with
05:23:44 [dape]
... need to work on strawpan ... till we have solid set
05:23:52 [kaz]
i/There will be/kaz: Agree, we should generate use-cases/requirements document for discovery topic as well. an example document above./
05:23:53 [dape]
q?
05:24:29 [dape]
ZK: 2-phase discovery: same rules apply for any other service
05:24:53 [dape]
MCC: useful to define TD for discovery/directory
05:25:10 [dsr]
Devices could register with a directory in the cloud, enabling users to determine which applications are compatible with their devices. This can be done in ways that protect the user’s privacy
05:25:47 [dape]
ZK: pressure on OCF to realize certain discovery service?
05:26:12 [kaz]
q?
05:26:16 [kaz]
ack zk
05:27:29 [dape]
ZK: client API in scripting provides way to identify the type: local, directroy etc...
05:27:42 [dape]
.... authentication part of wot runtime
05:28:12 [dape]
MCC: It is ok to have diversity
05:28:31 [dape]
... directory should be strict about authentication
05:28:36 [zkis]
q?
05:28:57 [dape]
... will write up requirements document to discuss
05:29:46 [dape]
Takano: possible to hide id?
05:30:02 [kaz]
s/Takano:/Matsuda:/
05:30:22 [kaz]
q?
05:30:24 [kaz]
q+
05:30:49 [dape]
MCC: just an idea.... long discussion about alternatives
05:31:50 [dape]
ML: Discovery is just one aspect
05:32:00 [yoshiaki_]
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05:32:06 [dape]
... need to look into industrial use cases for example
05:32:35 [dape]
... there are more aspects of lifecycle
05:32:49 [dape]
... e.g., on boarding, off boarding
05:33:06 [dape]
... suggest to call the activity "lifecycle"
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05:33:26 [dape]
MCC: different work item in charter
05:35:13 [dape]
... w.r.t. to discovery and industrial... there might be areas where needed but others where not needed
05:35:43 [dape]
... discovery is entry point for on-boarding
05:35:51 [dape]
q?
05:35:57 [horiuchi_]
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05:36:44 [kaz]
ack ml
05:36:44 [dape]
ML: let's handle lifycyle in architecture
05:36:48 [kaz]
ack taki
05:37:12 [dape]
Taki: home use-case.... we gonna have profile
05:37:23 [dape]
... we have to think about discovery in smart home
05:37:58 [dape]
MCC: profile should specify consumer setup
05:38:17 [zkis]
q+
05:38:44 [dape]
ML: guidelines for implementations
05:39:39 [zkis]
ack zk
05:39:48 [dape]
ZK: on-boarding depends on underlying protocol
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05:40:57 [dape]
MCC: specification for discovery is actually a TD describing the service
05:41:36 [dape]
Kaz: discussion reminds me about discussion in DID
05:41:55 [dape]
... should keep up the discussion
05:41:55 [kaz]
s/about/of/
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05:42:40 [kaz]
q?
05:42:44 [kaz]
ack kaz
05:42:55 [dape]
MCC: Actions
05:43:22 [dape]
... create discovery repo (even though charter has not been approved yet)
05:43:55 [dape]
... start with use cases and requirements
05:44:36 [dape]
... like to see firm status for Singapur IETF
05:46:39 [dape]
... November 16-17
05:47:19 [zkis]
q?
05:47:43 [horiuchi]
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05:47:44 [dape]
SK: being open to multiple query languages besides SPARQL
05:48:54 [dape]
... or keyword searches
05:51:11 [kaz]
[break till 3:05]
05:51:16 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
05:51:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-wot-minutes.html kaz
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06:16:11 [ege]
Topic: Architecture, Presenter: Michael Lagally
06:17:30 [kaz]
scribenick: ege
06:17:42 [ege]
mm: work items ?
06:18:02 [Kris]
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06:18:38 [kaz]
present+ Kris_McGlinn
06:18:48 [ege]
ml: introduction to the architecture document for the observers
06:19:50 [ege]
... (showing the issues page)
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06:19:57 [ege]
... no new issues since the last call of last week
06:20:41 [ege]
... anybody thinking of an issue?
06:21:02 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues WoT Architecture issues
06:21:09 [ege]
mm: we are talking about the PR release candidate
06:21:25 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pulls Pullrequests
06:21:34 [kaz]
s/PR/Proposed Recommendation/
06:21:37 [ege]
... looking at a PR request, number #385
06:21:59 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/385 PR 385
06:22:42 [ege]
mm: does security and privacy have any figures
06:24:02 [kaz]
-> w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#toc WoT Architecture Editor's Draft
06:25:04 [ege]
mm: we have an issue about security metadata being ambiguous
06:25:44 [inamori_]
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06:26:25 [ege]
... so the difference between the description/metadata so the securityDefinitions in the TD and the security data such as the keys/tokens
06:26:26 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/385/files Changes
06:26:39 [kaz]
-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/385.html Preview
06:26:58 [ege]
... figure 25 was also not consistent with the text
06:27:29 [ege]
ml: we can fix this quickly
06:27:50 [ege]
... (creates an issue about this)
06:27:53 [ege]
mm: I can work on thi
06:28:00 [horiuchi_]
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06:28:13 [ege]
s/ thi/this
06:28:18 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/386 Issue 386
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06:30:43 [ege]
ml: shall I merge this PR?
06:31:30 [dezell]
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06:33:40 [mlagally]
https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/380
06:33:52 [ege]
mm: we have a meeting with privacy group tomorrow
06:34:24 [ege]
... tomorrow 11am
06:35:07 [kaz]
s/11am/1pm/
06:35:09 [ege]
ml: if there are any outcomes from the discussion, please put into the issue
06:35:15 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_16-20_September_2019,_Fukuoka,_Japan#13:00-18:00_Group_Meetings agenda for PING joint session
06:35:57 [kaz]
[Kaz notes that the meeting room for PING joint discussion will be this room, Koh on 3F.]
06:37:23 [ege]
mm: consider that there are not blocking issues for the PR transition
06:38:27 [mlagally]
resolution: The WoT WG does not have any blocking issues for PR transition of the architecture document
06:39:23 [kaz]
action: McCool to update the figure 25, 27-29 tonight
06:39:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-181 - Update the figure 25, 27-29 tonight [on Michael McCool - due 2019-09-26].
06:39:35 [ege]
now is the last day to decide to make change proposals for the specs before going to PR
06:40:16 [ege]
ml: recapping from the last session to build the use cases
06:42:25 [ege]
... (looking at the PRs of the w3c/wot repo)
06:42:52 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/862 PR 862
06:43:00 [simonstey]
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06:43:09 [kaz]
-> https://cdn.statically.io/gh/mmccool/wot/wg-charter-draft/charters/wot-wg-charter-draft-2019.html?env=dev Rendered version
06:43:29 [ege]
... (looking at the work charter draft to fill the architecture use cases)
06:43:45 [zkis_]
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06:45:22 [ege]
ml: we should be cautious to not prescribe too many things
06:46:39 [Mizushima]
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06:47:39 [ege]
... any additional work items proposed by anyone?
06:47:42 [ege]
q?
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06:51:04 [ege]
mm: we need user categories, such as developer, device owner etc.
06:51:40 [ege]
... we want to remove and revise some use cases
06:52:03 [inamori_]
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06:52:07 [kaz]
q+
06:53:18 [kaz]
ack kaz
06:53:18 [ege]
mm: once we fix the template I have mentioned in the previous talk, we can start using it to structure the use cases, user categories etc.
06:53:35 [ege]
kaz: we should consider using workshop results
06:53:53 [kaz]
s/results/results and also maybe Shimmachi-san's input/
06:57:11 [ege]
mm: we need to be clear where we are prescriptive and where descriptive
06:58:25 [ege]
kaz: don't forget the ideathon results
06:58:56 [ege]
mm: I would have like to be invited, actually we should do it another time where some members of the working group join and explain some things we need
07:00:16 [ege]
... using other STO for the terminology when possible
07:02:00 [ege]
ml: (looking at issue 208 of architecture)
07:03:50 [ege]
... (now issue 25, WoT in a browser)
07:04:26 [kaz]
i|now|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/208 Issue 208|
07:04:55 [ege]
mm: we need one browser vendor on board to do demo
07:05:07 [kaz]
i|we need|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/25 Issue 25|
07:05:24 [kaz]
q+
07:05:28 [tksuzuki]
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07:09:29 [kaz]
ack k
07:09:50 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/issues/8 Issue 8
07:10:02 [kaz]
q+
07:11:28 [ege]
kaz: invite more people from nyig (?), like X from BBC
07:11:40 [kaz]
s/nyig (?)/MEIG/
07:11:46 [kaz]
s/X from/Chris Needham/
07:12:00 [kaz]
s/invite/would suggest we invite/
07:12:13 [ege]
mm: capturing RTSP cameras as Things
07:13:27 [kaz]
s/would suggest/on Monday, there was a meeting of MEIG, and NHK made a presentation (and they're participating in WoT PlugFest too :), so I'd suggest/
07:14:18 [ege]
ml: there are already some specs out there who are about streaming
07:15:06 [ege]
mm: making it sure to say that we are not defining our own media streaming protocol
07:15:29 [NJ]
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