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05:31:22 <koalie> meeting: Web Stories
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05:32:01 <amy_> present+
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05:32:09 <wendyreid> present+
05:32:13 <amy> present+
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05:32:15 <YoshiroYoneya> present+
05:32:16 <koalie> present+ Coralie
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05:32:43 <Helen> Present+
05:32:59 <Bert> present+ Bert Bos
05:33:06 <koalie> koalie has changed the topic to: https://w3c.github.io/tpac-breakouts/sessions.html
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05:36:05 <koalie> present+ Karl_Dubost
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05:36:24 <Rachel> present+
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05:36:57 <tantek> present+
05:37:02 <tantek> present+ Rachel
05:37:04 <koalie> topic: round the table
05:37:09 <tantek> present+ wendyreid
05:37:15 <tantek> present+ koalie
05:37:17 <tantek> present+ amy
05:37:18 <koalie> [let's tell each other how we came to the web]
05:37:24 <tantek> present+ Bert
05:37:34 <koalie> Peng: 1987: testbed for the Web
05:37:37 <tantek> RRSAgent, make logs public
05:37:40 <koalie> ... then @@
05:37:52 <Ralph> Ralph has joined #webstories
05:37:57 <koalie> ... now I represent my perception of the new web
05:38:04 <koalie> ... WeChat is like the Web in China
05:38:25 <koalie> ... drawback is that it's controled by one
05:38:35 <koalie> ... we're proposing a decentralized WeChat
05:38:36 <Ralph> present+
05:39:22 <koalie> ... from WWW to the new Web
05:39:38 <koalie> s/Peng/Rong/
05:39:57 <koalie> Yoshira: 30 years ago in Japan, no internet
05:40:11 <koalie> ... when the Web appeared, several services like ftp, fogher
05:40:27 <koalie> s/fog/gop/
05:40:34 <koalie> ... history of service, platforms
05:40:49 <koalie> ... I have a long experience in internet
05:40:55 <koalie> ... changes of the internet
05:41:12 <yoshiaki> yoshiaki has joined #webstories
05:41:19 <koalie> ... how will the changes to the internet affect services
05:41:51 <mchampion> mchampion has joined #webstories
05:41:51 <koalie> ... my hope for the future: communication with large @@
05:42:04 <koalie> ... e.g. between astronauts, to the moon, mars
05:42:10 <koalie> s/large @@/large distance/
05:42:20 <koalie> Karl: Hi, I'm Karl, I'm a webaholic
05:42:35 <koalie> ... I started using the internet before the Web
05:42:43 <koalie> ... why?
05:42:46 <koalie> ... I was using usenet
05:42:54 <koalie> ... I saw Tim's message announcing the Web
05:43:06 <koalie> ... I started to compile the server at Montreal University
05:43:22 <koalie> ... I put a link to page B on Page A and the other way around... and... MAGIC!
05:43:28 <yoshiaki_> yoshiaki_ has joined #webstories
05:43:28 <koalie> ... I saw the potential right away
05:43:43 <koalie> ... I bored my friends to death
05:43:45 <koalie> ... today?
05:43:50 <koalie> ... I'm still amazed
05:43:58 <koalie> ... 30 years after, I find it still mind-blowing
05:44:32 <koalie> ... for those who don't know me: I worked 10 yaers at W3C, then Opera, than a web agency, now Mozilla
05:44:35 <koalie> ... my fear?
05:44:54 <koalie> ... hyper-centralization of services, all the things that are needed to put things online
05:45:03 <koalie> ... threats to individuals
05:45:13 <koalie> ... it enables searching, control, mass surveillance
05:45:20 <koalie> ... my hope?
05:45:28 <koalie> ... finding solutions in the protocols, the formats
05:45:34 <koalie> ... that allow something more distributed
05:46:04 <koalie> Tom: I'm with Mozilla
05:46:18 <koalie> ... I've started very young when I started to "be on the Web"
05:46:23 <koalie> ... I was into old computer
05:46:33 <koalie> ... in Ontario Canada, access to internet was a challenge
05:46:49 <koalie> ... as soon as the internet was available I read everything I could on it
05:47:01 <koalie> ... then I got education and a job
05:47:08 <koalie> ... I returned quickly to it
05:47:13 <koalie> ... became a web developer
05:47:18 <koalie> ... it blew my mind to return to it
05:47:37 <koalie> ... how the web was forming
05:47:42 <koalie> ... I started to feel empowered
05:47:50 <koalie> ... I joined Mozilla to follow my conscience
05:47:57 <koalie> ... this has inspired me to do better
05:48:05 <koalie> ... make the Web a safer place for people
05:48:31 <koalie> ... I want to be part of the wave that makes that renaissance happen
05:48:40 <koalie> Helen: I'm with the Sovrin Foundation
05:48:47 <koalie> ... we're a non-profit
05:48:55 <koalie> ... deentralized network for the exchange of VCs
05:49:05 <koalie> ... I am here for the DID WG
05:49:18 <koalie> ... I was a recipient of one of the Diversity Fund
05:49:23 <koalie> ... my background is journalism
05:49:33 <koalie> ... I covered capitol hill for a while
05:50:01 <koalie> ... facilititad the coverage by all of the journalist
05:50:05 <yoshiaki> yoshiaki has joined #webstories
05:50:07 <koalie> ... coming here? that's very similar
05:50:35 <koalie> ... then I worked in children's books with the privacy and security angle
05:50:51 <koalie> ... my husband works at the NSA
05:51:02 <koalie> [people laugh at the contrast]
05:51:16 <koalie> Helen: I really enjoy talking about decentralization, priv-sec
05:51:25 <koalie> ... I want my children to have safer interactiosn on the internet
05:51:35 <koalie> Wendy_Reid: Kobo
05:51:38 <koalie> ... fellow Ontario kid
05:51:45 <koalie> ... I'm younger than the Web
05:51:56 <koalie> [Tanya too!]
05:52:14 <koalie> Wendy: my early days on the Internet were games and messenger
05:52:26 <koalie> ... my intro to W3C was through neopets
05:52:36 <koalie> ... looking at "how do I?" pages
05:52:44 <koalie> Ralph: wait! are you younger than CSS?
05:52:51 <koalie> Wendy: not that young :)
05:53:03 <koalie> ... I searhed html tags
05:53:08 <koalie> ... ended up on the html specs
05:53:13 <koalie> ... I created my own web page
05:53:23 <koalie> ... friends and I would spend hours on table layouts
05:53:33 <dezell> s/searhed/searched/
05:54:17 <koalie> Wendy: my journey with EPUB brought me back right at the W3C
05:54:56 <koalie> ... I told my childhood best friend I was going to TPAC --she's the only person who understands
05:55:00 <koalie> [laugh]
05:55:11 <koalie> Wendy: there are amazing things coming out of the Web
05:55:45 <koalie> ... I would love the Web to return to a place that was safe, not controlled by big corp run by a man who looks a bit like an alien
05:56:09 <koalie> Rachel_Comerford: McMillan Learning
05:56:36 <koalie> ... I had no interest in the Web as a kid
05:56:42 <koalie> ... but was raised by someone who was
05:56:45 <koalie> ... my Dad
05:56:52 <koalie> ... he forced the Web on me at every turn
05:56:59 <koalie> ... I was given logo to play with
05:57:12 <koalie> ... and basic and c++
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05:57:45 <koalie> ... because of that I rebelled and went into creative writing
05:57:57 <koalie> ... I can't avoid the Web under any circumstances apparently
05:58:06 <koalie> ... so I went into Digital Publishing
05:58:14 <koalie> ... in standardization
05:58:41 <koalie> ... when IDPF merged with W3C, MAcMillan decidd that I would become the representative for them at the W3C
05:58:52 <koalie> ... I'm making my father very happy and proud
05:58:58 <koalie> [laughs]
05:59:36 <koalie> Tantek_Çelik: back when I was working at Microsoft in 1998,
05:59:41 <koalie> ... I was told to implement CSS
05:59:49 <koalie> ... I asked a lot of questions
06:00:10 <koalie> ... Chris Wilson, whom as was asking all my questions, told me to just go ask the working group in e-mail
06:00:14 <yoshiaki> yoshiaki has joined #webstories
06:00:26 <koalie> ... the group after a while said "you should join our meeting. It's in paris"
06:00:40 <koalie> ... and this is where I met Bert and started to be a member of the group
06:00:49 <koalie> ... we have a high bar of where things were
06:00:56 <koalie> ... since then, I'm in a community I love
06:01:02 <koalie> ... doing work in the open
06:01:12 <koalie> ... contribute to other people's work
06:01:17 <koalie> ... fast-forward 2000s
06:01:29 <koalie> ... I worked at a startup indexing blogs at Technorati
06:01:32 <koalie> ... social media happen
06:01:48 <koalie> ... a bunch of us wanted something decentralized
06:01:50 <koalie> ... 2010
06:02:02 <koalie> ... a bunch of us started IndieWeb
06:02:20 <koalie> ... to reclaim our identities, and content on the Web --with a modern approach
06:02:28 <koalie> ... fast-forward a few more year: work at Mozilla
06:02:35 <koalie> ... who paid me to work on the things I liked
06:02:44 <koalie> ... I was asked to chair the social web working group
06:02:57 <koalie> ... and people heard my ideas and I was invited to an AB meeting
06:03:13 <koalie> ... was elected and spent 5 years on the W3C AB
06:03:26 <koalie> ... despite all the positive impact of the Web I want to ground it in reality
06:03:36 <koalie> ... in the last few years, there's been very bad impact
06:04:03 <koalie> ... having worked on some of the fundamental technologies, I feel we could have done a better job
06:04:10 <koalie> ... the web has brought us societal needs
06:04:37 <koalie> s/needs/ills
06:04:57 <koalie> ... people are impacted even those not involved in moving the web forward
06:05:13 <koalie> ... I'd like to recognise this and @@
06:05:49 <koalie> Ralph_Swick: I'm Ralph
06:05:55 <tantek> s/@@/focus on how can we address the ills especially those that disproportionately impact marginalized communities and individuals/
06:06:04 <koalie> ... I have been around longer than the Web
06:06:33 <koalie> ... the machine I kept running still had Mozilla [first version?]
06:06:40 <tantek> RRSAgent, make logs public
06:06:44 <koalie> ... my goals were tools for humans
06:06:54 <koalie> ... shared with our contemporaries
06:07:07 <koalie> ... near time, but also that could persist for those who come after us
06:07:16 <koalie> ... so they understand
06:07:23 <Bert> s/Mozilla [first version?]/Netscape Navigator
06:07:28 <koalie> ... "cool URIs don't change" for me is meaningful
06:07:45 <yoshiaki> yoshiaki has joined #webstories
06:08:02 <koalie> ... that's how I got here
06:08:06 <koalie> ... why I stay here?
06:08:13 <koalie> ... how to fix those problems
06:08:23 <koalie> Bartek: google Tokyo
06:08:29 <koalie> ... recently joined
06:08:40 <koalie> ... trying to find my place here, and in the universe
06:08:51 <koalie> ... I was introduced to the Web by pure accident
06:08:55 <Ralph> s/Mozilla [/Netscape Navigator
06:09:00 <koalie> ... I work on the chrome architecture
06:09:35 <koalie> ... a big chunck of my team was going to TPAC so I decided to tag along
06:10:15 <koalie> ... I didn't do a lot of web dev myself except in my school days
06:10:24 <koalie> ... now I'm part of the Chrome team
06:10:31 <koalie> ... interesting to see where this is going
06:10:41 <koalie> ... social media are very interesting place
06:10:48 <koalie> present+ Bartek_Google
06:11:06 <koalie> Bert_Bos: I've also been working on the Internet before the Web
06:11:13 <koalie> ... ftp, usenet, e-mail
06:11:17 <koalie> ... I didn't like the Web at first
06:11:21 <koalie> ... Gopher I liked
06:11:25 <koalie> ... but not long
06:11:41 <koalie> ... I saw the possibilities to create something
06:11:51 <koalie> ... very useful for researchers at university
06:11:59 <koalie> ... documentation,
06:12:09 <koalie> ... URLs, mimetypes
06:12:15 <koalie> ... I created a web browser
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06:12:46 <koalie> ... I installed the first web server of my university, too
06:13:41 <koalie> ... I want my information and my creation to be useful to others
06:13:57 <koalie> ... as others here mentioned, people something do things unexpected
06:14:01 <koalie> ... with things we create
06:14:07 <koalie> ... in my case, no bad example
06:14:27 <koalie> Amy_van_der_Hiel: I don't have a tech background
06:14:33 <koalie> ... mine is art history
06:14:39 <koalie> ... used the Web to do research
06:14:49 <koalie> ... I came at the W3C to become PA to Tim Berners-Lee
06:15:03 <koalie> ... I stay because of what we do and what the Web does
06:15:10 <koalie> ... I didn't intend to stay that long
06:15:45 <koalie> ... I can say simply how the web is misused to my friends
06:16:11 <koalie> ... I'm happy and grateful for all of you doing all you're doing to keep us safe
06:16:31 <koalie> David_Ezell: I got out of school with a master in performance and musical @@
06:16:37 <koalie> ... I thought I'd do that the rest of my life
06:16:42 <koalie> ... but I found computers
06:16:53 <koalie> ... at a company that believed in web standards
06:16:59 <Bert> s/documentation/documentation, ways to combine information of different types from different sources/
06:17:08 <koalie> ... fueling convenience stores
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06:17:54 <tantek> RRSAgent, pointer?
06:17:54 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webstories-irc#T06-17-54
06:18:07 <koalie> ... this was before 1999 and I was told "XML? don't worry, it's a buzz word"
06:18:26 <koalie> ... then 1999, POS (point of sales) <-> back offices
06:18:39 <koalie> ... XML structured data
06:18:53 <koalie> ... Tim talked at our 10th anniv
06:19:08 <koalie> ... he was our keynote speaker, this was 2007
06:19:23 <koalie> ... let's talk about gas pumps
06:19:40 <koalie> ... all of what they do is described by SML
06:19:46 <koalie> s/SM/XM/
06:19:52 <koalie> ... Tim gave us this talk on gas pumps
06:20:19 <koalie> ... we were looking for unicorns
06:20:32 <koalie> ... what are today's unicorns?
06:20:37 <koalie> ... answer: web of things
06:20:56 <koalie> ... that can help monitor a store as a unit factory
06:20:59 <koalie> ... answer: DID
06:21:42 <koalie> ... which could help buying a product without engaging with a brand
06:22:04 <koalie> Tanya_Mandal: I'm also younger than the Web
06:22:08 <koalie> ... heard about it in school
06:22:16 <koalie> ... thought it was the coolest thing ever
06:22:24 <koalie> ... my friends were impressed when I made my first web page
06:22:35 <koalie> ... I wanted to make my careerd out of it
06:22:48 <koalie> s/eerd/eer
06:22:59 <koalie> ...and work in education
06:23:20 <koalie> ... I work at Internet Acedemy
06:23:31 <koalie> ... who offered me to become a fellow at the W3C
06:23:35 <koalie> ... within the comm team
06:23:49 <koalie> ... what I'm doing comes under the bucket of UX
06:24:10 <koalie> ... how do we make solutions that empower people, enable them, etc.
06:24:16 <koalie> ... that's why I love doing what I do
06:24:43 <koalie> Hadley_Beeman: My story was when I was 9yo in Ohia
06:24:48 <koalie> s/hia/hio/
06:24:55 <koalie> ... at my school
06:25:04 <koalie> ... our computer teacher showed me a modem
06:25:48 <koalie> ... we had a limited access
06:26:05 <koalie> ... what blew my mind was scientific data: the weather forecast
06:26:10 <koalie> ... fast-forward 2010
06:26:17 <koalie> ... I was out of job after a contract finished
06:26:33 <koalie> ... job open at Open Data Institude
06:26:37 <koalie> ... linkgov
06:26:48 <koalie> ... founded with friends
06:26:56 <koalie> ... Tantek came to our of our meetings
06:27:03 <koalie> ... one question was licensing
06:27:32 <koalie> ... this is when Tantek, whom I continue to blame for it, said "you should join the HTML WG"
06:27:42 <koalie> ... they accepted anyone as Invited Expert at the time
06:28:00 <koalie> ... once I done that and voted in the whatwg / w3c survey
06:28:04 <koalie> ... I started to pay attention
06:28:18 <koalie> ... microformat/rdfa conversation interested me
06:28:25 <koalie> ... I jumped in, and in another one
06:28:36 <koalie> ... one thing leading to another...
06:28:57 <koalie> ... what gets me going is doing stuff that's really important
06:29:05 <koalie> ... the plumbing and architecture for users
06:29:13 <koalie> ... affects all kinds of people
06:29:22 <koalie> ... that's why I'm hear
06:29:29 <koalie> ... I love to be part of this community
06:29:34 <koalie> ... we're all sharing that same passion
06:29:37 <Bert> s/hear/here/
06:29:42 <koalie> ... It's pretty amazing
06:30:22 <hadleybeeman> s/linkgov/linkedgov
06:30:40 <amy> Coralie: i've been at w3c for 20 years. it's my first serious job. my background is secretarial/executive assistant. my diploma was english as foriegn langague
06:31:18 <amy> .. I went to ERCIM, I didn't know the web. i  used it once because i i bought a Celine Delon CD to find out what this wwww. was. there was no google
06:31:55 <koalie> https://www.w3.org/2019/Talks/TPAC/ac-coralie-fundraising/Overview.html#
06:31:56 <amy> ... they mentioned something, and i figured out what it was. fast forward to ERCIM
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06:32:34 <hadleybeeman> tantek: RRS Agent?
06:32:50 <hadleybeeman> ralph: I wanted this tool so our meetings could persist. we were using IRC, but it was emphemeral
06:32:50 <koalie> Ralph: as I said, I wanted tools to persist our conversation
06:32:52 <tantek> who is RRSAgent?
06:32:55 <koalie> s/tion/tions/
06:33:04 <koalie> ... I learned syntax
06:33:08 <YoshiroYoneya> https://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
06:33:16 <koalie> ... invited my tools to where we recorded the conversations
06:33:25 <koalie> ... and my bot, rrsagent records this
06:33:35 <koalie> David: you were also the voice of Zakim
06:33:43 <koalie> Ralph: RRS are my initials
06:33:50 <koalie> ... so RRSagent was my agent
06:34:16 <hadleybeeman> coralie: I don't know if I told you, but when RSS came, I kept typing RSSAgent.
06:34:29 <hadleybeeman> ralph: everybody new to W3C makes that mistake. I apologise for that!
06:34:53 <hadleybeeman> coralie: I'd like to get in conversation with you so we can use your stories.
06:35:02 <hadleybeeman> ...You can write to me at coralie@w3.org.
06:35:06 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
06:35:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webstories-minutes.html koalie
06:35:07 <tantek> My business card / contact info is https://tantek.com/contact
06:35:12 <tantek> :)
06:35:20 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
06:35:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webstories-minutes.html koalie
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09:13:14 <koalie> s/Tom:/Thomas_Wisniewski:/
09:13:42 <koalie> s/Rong:/Rong_Chen:/
09:17:03 <koalie> s/Karl:/Karl_Dubost:/
09:17:20 <koalie> s/Helen:/Helen_Garneau:/
09:17:41 <koalie> s/Tantek_Çelik:/Tantek_Celik:/
09:18:35 <tantek> :)
09:22:47 <koalie> s/Bartek:/Bartek_Nowierski:/
09:22:52 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
09:22:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webstories-minutes.html koalie
09:22:59 <koalie> chair: Coralie_Mercier
09:23:04 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'learn UTF8 :)', tantek.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
09:23:48 <koalie> s/web]/Web, our hopes and fears, etc.]/
09:24:02 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
09:24:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webstories-minutes.html koalie
09:27:32 <koalie> s/Helen: I'm/Helen_Garneau: I'm/
09:27:37 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
09:27:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webstories-minutes.html koalie
09:28:42 <koalie> s/went to ERCIM/applied for a job at Inria; it was for W3C/
09:28:49 <koalie> s/langague/language/
09:29:05 <koalie> i|Coralie: i've|scribenick: amy|
09:29:23 <koalie> s/i i/as I/
09:30:07 <koalie> s/CD/CD showing the sony URI at the back, and I was not able/
09:32:49 <koalie> s/they mentioned/friends of mine mentioned/
09:33:08 <koalie> i|Ralph: as I said|scribenick: koalie|
09:33:45 <koalie> s/Yoshira:/Yoshiro_Yoneya:/
09:34:22 <koalie> i|coralie: I don't|scribenick: hadleybeeman|
09:34:28 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
09:34:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webstories-minutes.html koalie
09:34:48 <yoshiaki> yoshiaki has joined #webstories
09:36:47 <koalie> i|[let's tell|scribenick: koalie|
09:37:24 <koalie> s/Topic: round the table/Topic: How we came to the Web, our hopes, fears, etc./
09:37:40 <koalie> s/[let's tell each other how we came to the Web, our hopes and fears, etc.]//
09:37:43 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
09:37:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webstories-minutes.html koalie
09:38:54 <yoshiaki_> yoshiaki_ has joined #webstories