IRC log of webrtc on 2019-09-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 23:34:30 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webrtc-irc
- 23:34:35 [dom]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 23:34:41 [dom]
- Meeting: WebRTC TPAC F2F Day 1
- 23:34:46 [dom]
- RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight
- 23:34:53 [dom]
- Chair: Bernard, Jan-Ivar, Harald
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- Present+
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- Present+ jeff
- 23:36:42 [ericc]
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- 23:38:25 [dom]
- Present+ Youenn, EricC, Harald, Orphis, Bernard, Jan-Ivar, Henrik, Armando, Emad
- 23:40:00 [dom]
- -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Xprz0ElNTUWRDdX6kyp11cZ4ItTvUFUmzoXsKZdXxuU/edit#slide=id.p Meeting slides
- 23:40:09 [jib]
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- 23:40:48 [youenn]
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- 23:40:51 [dom]
- ScribeNick: youenn
- 23:40:56 [youenn]
- WebRTC F2F Thursday morning
- 23:40:59 [dom]
- Topic: Agenda review
- 23:42:41 [hhan__]
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- 23:42:48 [dom]
- Topic: State of the WebRTC WG
- 23:44:20 [youenn]
- Slight difference between charter ending March 2020 and list of deliverables.
- 23:44:30 [youenn]
- Probably not able to deliver everything
- 23:44:53 [youenn]
- Web developers want interop, it should just work
- 23:46:53 [youenn]
- media capture main spec: 26 issues, 21 of them sticking around, probably harder to fix.
- 23:48:20 [youenn]
- community sense is that it works.
- 23:48:35 [Jared]
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- 23:49:50 [youenn]
- Going to PR requires closing bugs and validating testing.
- 23:50:10 [youenn]
- screen capture spec
- 23:50:44 [youenn]
- developer use it and sense is that it works.
- 23:51:05 [youenn]
- We should get it to CR.
- 23:51:23 [youenn]
- 13 open bugs.
- 23:51:36 [youenn]
- dom: need full horizontal review
- 23:51:54 [youenn]
- Goal is to fix all CR blocking issues by ending of F2F
- 23:52:20 [youenn]
- Need also to fill out TAG review.
- 23:53:29 [youenn]
- Need an explainer for the TAG review
- 23:53:44 [youenn]
- webrtc-pc!
- 23:54:34 [youenn]
- 32 open issues, still new ones coming in at a good pace
- 23:55:12 [youenn]
- Bugs are smaller and smaller
- 23:57:14 [youenn]
- New PR target at the end of F2F
- 23:57:25 [youenn]
- WebRTC-identity
- 23:57:55 [youenn]
- Not much progress there
- 23:59:26 [dom]
- Present+ Jared
- 00:02:02 [jeff_]
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- 00:04:11 [youenn]
- Other documents
- 00:04:22 [youenn]
- Capture from DOM
- 00:04:54 [youenn]
- Needs editor.
- 00:05:00 [dom]
- https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-fromelement/
- 00:05:22 [youenn]
- 19 open issues, fairly old but heavy use.
- 00:06:17 [youenn]
- Need TAG/privacy/security review and check open bugs whether blocker or not
- 00:06:32 [youenn]
- media recorder API
- 00:06:49 [youenn]
- Need an editor and TAG review.
- 00:07:42 [youenn]
- stat-identifier
- 00:07:54 [youenn]
- ... spec: fairly active
- 00:09:22 [youenn]
- depth spec: no more progress, shipped in chromium under a pref.
- 00:10:12 [youenn]
- audio output devices: shipped in Chrome, Mozilla under a pref.
- 00:10:31 [youenn]
- ... in CR
- 00:10:33 [anssik]
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- 00:11:00 [youenn]
- content hints: released in Chrome, works, WD
- 00:12:33 [youenn]
- DSCP: origin trial showed mixed results, especially in private networks
- 00:13:25 [youenn]
- WebRTC-SVC: active interest, early in development cycle
- 00:14:13 [youenn]
- WebRTC-ICE: Implemented in Chrome as part of QUIC experiment. Basic stuff working.
- 00:14:20 [youenn]
- No first WD yet.
- 00:15:59 [youenn]
- Other W3C activity: media wg activity is relevant to WebRTC WG
- 00:17:51 [youenn]
- TOPIC: WebRTC 1.0 Testing
- 00:20:33 [inamori_]
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- 00:23:28 [hta1]
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- 00:24:48 [youenn]
- Specs have links to tests, should allow to compute spec coverage.
- 00:27:10 [youenn]
- A lot of progress in tests passing in all 4 browsers.
- 00:32:33 [youenn]
- DrAlex presenting the WPT and KITE dashboards
- 00:35:24 [inamori_]
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- 00:35:45 [youenn]
- Simulcast testing big progress with IETF 104 and 105 hackathons.
- 00:47:16 [youenn]
- Topic: Next steps to PR for WebRTC-pc
- 00:51:10 [youenn]
- Chrome has mid and rid header extensions, Firefox supports rid header extension.
- 00:52:30 [youenn]
- Florent implemented the simulcast playground for unified plan.
- 00:52:38 [youenn]
- Could be used as a basis for WPT.
- 00:53:32 [youenn]
- ACTION: Florent to investigate upstreaming his page as WPT test
- 00:53:32 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-124 - Investigate upstreaming his page as wpt test [on Florent Castelli - due 2019-09-26].
- 00:55:05 [dom]
- -> https://dontcallmedom.github.io/webrtc-impl-tracker/?webrtc Confluence-based WebRTC Implementation tracker
- 00:59:51 [Max_]
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- 01:02:38 [youenn]
- Plan: do a final CR containing all new changes, then no substantive changes. Then validate testing is sufficient to go in PR.
- 01:03:17 [youenn]
- Goal is to go to PR by end of the year.
- 01:05:59 [jianjunz]
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- 01:39:01 [hhan]
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- 01:40:58 [jib]
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- 01:41:10 [youenn]
- Topic: Issue 1764
- 01:41:21 [youenn]
- Bernard summarizing the issue
- 01:42:10 [Gooroomee]
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- 01:42:32 [youenn]
- Discussing Nils proposal.
- 01:42:49 [youenn]
- Harald: are all codecs ok with sending, then not sending and resending audio packets?
- 01:43:24 [youenn]
- Opus: you need to process a few packets before outputting sounds?
- 01:43:30 [youenn]
- s/sounds?/sound/
- 01:43:47 [jeff]
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- 01:44:34 [youenn]
- Varun: what about doing like in mute case?
- 01:45:07 [youenn]
- Bernard: send silence is not very clear, might change according the negotiated parameters.
- 01:48:17 [youenn]
- RESOLUTION: Accept Nils proposal for Issue 1764
- 01:48:37 [youenn]
- Topic: Issue 2121
- 01:57:08 [horiuchi]
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- 01:59:15 [youenn]
- RESOLUTION: Proposal C: define retrieval of constraint properties for getSettings but make them not modifiable
- 01:59:48 [jib]
- for width, height and frameRate, and aspectRatio
- 02:00:13 [youenn]
- Issue 2230
- 02:00:21 [dom]
- trackbot, bye
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- 02:00:39 [dom]
- Youenn: the host field in the ice error event exposes private ip addresses
- 02:01:05 [dom]
- ... in theory it could expose private information; in practice, it's exposing addresses that in general would have already been exposed to the page
- 02:01:17 [jeff]
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- 02:01:19 [dom]
- ... the spec opens up the possibility to use 0.0.0.0:0 if filtering is needed
- 02:01:28 [dom]
- ... there is an odd case when you ask only for relay candidates
- 02:01:39 [dom]
- ... we could maybe filter the host address in that case
- 02:01:52 [dom]
- ... returning 0.0.0.0:0 instead of null is a bit strange
- 02:02:01 [dom]
- ... and why is port and address in a single field?
- 02:02:42 [horiuchi_]
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- 02:02:43 [nakakura]
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- 02:03:40 [dom]
- jan-ivar: maybe either than null, an empty string?
- 02:03:56 [dom]
- harald: the advantage of 0.0.0.0:0 is that it is parseable by an IP address parser
- 02:04:15 [dom]
- ... e.g. if you log the errors
- 02:06:28 [ericc]
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- 02:07:37 [dom]
- dom: since it has been very recently deployed, this is purely a cosmetic design decision at this point
- 02:07:47 [dom]
- jan-ivar: empty string sounds good to me
- 02:08:37 [dom]
- henrik: we should be consistent with what we have in RTCIceCandidate
- 02:09:12 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: empty string for null value, split port separately
- 02:10:59 [dom]
- (make port nullable, find name for host)
- 02:11:08 [dom]
- ISSUE 2257
- 02:14:01 [youenn]
- Same certificate for workers so postMessage is potentially useful.
- 02:14:37 [youenn]
- Bernard: for forking, same certificate for different endpoints, potentially in a worker thread.
- 02:19:41 [youenn]
- RESOLUTION: Keep the existing ability and put a note about the security issue.
- 02:21:08 [Zakim]
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- 02:21:24 [youenn]
- postMessaging a certificate might be useful in a data channel context so it might be a useful feature.
- 02:24:40 [youenn]
- Topic: Screen capture
- 02:25:34 [youenn]
- Jan-Ivar is listing the list of improvements done in the past year.
- 02:26:15 [youenn]
- Issue 60: Define Tab Capture
- 02:27:36 [Riju]
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- 02:27:53 [youenn]
- RESOLUTION: Use 'browsing context' as tab capture
- 02:29:48 [youenn]
- Need horizontal review, fill out privacy and security questionnaire. Need explainer.
- 02:31:15 [youenn]
- Discussion about tab capture. Mozilla might want to capture the active tab (without the other tabs like a window would leak).
- 02:32:48 [youenn]
- Potential clarification: make it clear that tab capture might change the the tab dynamically.
- 02:35:20 [horiuchi]
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- 02:36:08 [youenn]
- Topic: Media capture and streams
- 02:36:12 [youenn]
- Issue 554
- 02:41:42 [youenn]
- Harald: lack of spec actually makes it harder to implement. Definitely interested and would like to push implementation when there is a spec.
- 02:41:55 [youenn]
- Jan-Ivar: Would be good to have for our own testing.
- 02:42:11 [dom]
- Issue 565
- 02:45:13 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: allow browsers not to fire devicechange event if the list of device is actually the same
- 02:46:21 [dom]
- make this mandatory behavior unless this can be privacy-neutral
- 02:46:25 [youenn]
- Issue 584
- 02:46:50 [Max_]
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- 02:50:58 [horiuchi]
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- 02:53:05 [youenn]
- Safari has potential issues with downscale restriction in multiple apps accessing to camera.
- 02:53:58 [youenn]
- RESOLUTION: Remove upscale from the proposed sentence and merge
- 02:56:18 [youenn]
- Issue 608
- 02:58:29 [jianjunz]
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- 03:01:57 [jeff_]
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- 03:02:08 [Riju]
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- 03:02:42 [ericc]
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- 03:02:57 [youenn]
- Topic: Media Recording
- 03:03:01 [youenn]
- ISSUE 139
- 03:06:39 [youenn]
- Proposal is to always re-encode when mimeType is set and not reencode otherwise.
- 03:09:36 [yuj]
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- 03:10:19 [youenn]
- RESOLUTION: Consensus from Proposal B
- 03:10:25 [youenn]
- s/from/for/
- 03:10:48 [nakakura]
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- 03:11:28 [youenn]
- Issue 167
- 03:13:52 [horiuchi]
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- 03:19:50 [dom]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
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- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webrtc-minutes.html dom
- 03:19:55 [youenn]
- RESOLUTION: Start with proposal B, Jan-Ivar to create a PR, promise based.
- 03:20:14 [youenn]
- Need to discuss multiple track change cases.
- 03:20:19 [dom]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 03:20:19 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webrtc-minutes.html dom
- 03:31:25 [horiuchi]
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- 04:21:28 [jeff_]
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- 04:23:55 [hta]
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- 04:29:43 [dom]
- Topic: WebRTC Stats
- 04:30:20 [dom]
- henrik: [implementation status] - the gaps in implementation reflects more structural changes in where the stats are exposed rather than the lack of available metrics
- 04:30:46 [jib]
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- 04:31:11 [steveanton]
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- ScribeNick: steveanton
- 04:32:50 [horiuchi]
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- 04:33:12 [steveanton]
- youenn: wpt should be enough for simple counters
- 04:33:37 [steveanton]
- youenn: WebKit has some basic wpt validation that can be upstreamed
- 04:33:56 [steveanton]
- hbos: chrome does not have detailed tests at the integration level
- 04:34:28 [dom]
- ACTION: Youenn to upload simple validation tests from webkit to WPT
- 04:34:33 [steveanton]
- vr000m: explore simple tests in wpt then go forward from there
- 04:34:59 [ericc]
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- 04:36:04 [hhan]
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- 04:37:17 [horiuchi]
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- 04:38:39 [steveanton]
- bernard: new model better supports SVC
- 04:38:53 [jeff]
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- 04:39:23 [steveanton]
- topic: issues 361/452
- 04:40:12 [steveanton]
- general agreement to proceed
- 04:40:20 [steveanton]
- topic: issues 478/396
- 04:41:06 [steveanton]
- youenn: can already get this information from the api
- 04:41:16 [steveanton]
- jib: opposed for stats reporting things that the app already knows
- 04:41:42 [steveanton]
- hbos: need mid to correlate stats objects with the m= section (proposal 2)
- 04:42:44 [steveanton]
- jib: adding transceiver stats requires adding transceiver id
- 04:43:37 [steveanton]
- bernard: snapshotting state would help correlate stats with changes in signaling
- 04:44:39 [steveanton]
- jib: worried about bloat in stats objects
- 04:46:03 [steveanton]
- vr000m: two issues (1) do we need a transceiver dictionary (2) once we have that do we need additional data e.g. direction
- 04:46:44 [steveanton]
- jib: could also just put a mid on sender/receiver
- 04:48:38 [steveanton]
- vr000m: stats are used largely for debugging
- 04:52:59 [steveanton]
- agreement that mid should be mti
- 04:54:41 [steveanton]
- jib: opposed to direction/currentDirection more than opposed to transceiver stats
- 04:55:17 [steveanton]
- general agreement to add transceiver stats to with mid/sender id/receiver id only
- 04:55:42 [vr000m]
- also codecIds?
- 04:55:56 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: issue-480/issue-472
- 04:59:00 [steveanton]
- bernard and jib sold on proposal 1
- 05:01:02 [Riju_]
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- 05:01:21 [steveanton]
- vr000m: like events since we then we don't have to shim peerconnection
- 05:02:24 [steveanton]
- youenn: prefer that stats expose replace track info directly rather than through events
- 05:02:41 [Amit]
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- 05:06:01 [steveanton]
- jib: see that shimming replacetrack is not ideal, but does work
- 05:09:12 [steveanton]
- vr000m: not providing something like onstatsended leaves a gap with replacetrack that has been known for 2 years
- 05:09:49 [steveanton]
- youenn: onreplacetrack should be a follow up and not in 1.0
- 05:11:37 [jeff]
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- 05:12:44 [jianjunz]
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- 05:13:40 [steveanton]
- RESOLUTION: remove onstatsended and continue discussion about an event to notify when significant stats change
- 05:13:47 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: issue-479
- 05:18:15 [steveanton]
- RESOLUTION: consensus to remove track stats (moving it to obsolete section)
- 05:18:36 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: Content-Hints
- 05:23:02 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: issue-2248
- 05:28:41 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: issue-28
- 05:33:08 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: issue-28 & issue-30
- 05:33:11 [horiuchi]
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- 05:35:57 [horiuchi_]
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- 05:36:23 [steveanton]
- hta: more sympathetic to normative action than before
- 05:36:55 [steveanton]
- hbos: agree that we should only ship APIs that are well defined
- 05:38:08 [Gooroomee]
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- 05:38:09 [steveanton]
- jib: trying to be agnostic about what to do next, just want to provide feedback
- 05:38:55 [steveanton]
- bernard: where to specify normative hints for content hints?
- 05:39:59 [steveanton]
- jib/hta/bernard: content hints should be a follow up spec that covers the integrations with other specs
- 05:40:34 [steveanton]
- youenn: is a high level api that influences control knobs the right design?
- 05:43:26 [Riju]
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- 05:43:33 [steveanton]
- youenn: if hints are crucial for an application then we should specify the behavior
- 05:44:17 [steveanton]
- jib: hints can be useful since they are simpler than turning all the knobs
- 05:45:46 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: disposing of content-hint
- 05:46:53 [steveanton]
- bernard: some advanced codecs have content capture tools (hevc, av1)
- 05:47:02 [steveanton]
- bernard: useful to expose this for e.g. screensharing
- 05:47:29 [steveanton]
- RESOLUTION: advance but not at high priority
- 05:47:43 [horiuchi]
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- 05:48:03 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: DSCP API
- 05:53:03 [steveanton]
- RESOLUTION: proposal 1
- 05:53:22 [steveanton]
- (Move Priority to DSCP document, harmonize, keep experimenting)
- 05:53:33 [steveanton]
- TOPIC: WebRTC-ICE
- 05:53:58 [horiuchi_]
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- 05:56:37 [steveanton]
- youenn: not as opposed to adopt as last year, but not sure if it's the right time (don't want to delay from finishing 1.0)
- 05:57:06 [steveanton]
- dom: shouldn't be a high cost to the working group
- 05:58:22 [steveanton]
- generally no opposition to adopting the spec
- 06:07:18 [horiuchi]
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- 06:10:25 [steveanton]
- bernard: do the p2p mesh folks want datachannels in workers?
- 06:12:12 [steveanton]
- dom: does this expose new security & privacy risks?
- 06:12:23 [steveanton]
- peter: need to think through the risks more
- 06:12:43 [steveanton]
- bernard: forking has been thought through, but not in the context of p2p mesh
- 06:17:57 [steveanton]
- bernard: who is asking for ICE forking? just dht people?
- 06:18:02 [steveanton]
- hbos: why is ice forking hard?
- 06:20:00 [steveanton]
- bernard: each transport has different candidate pair statuses, API changes (dtls transport) to facilitate forking, more ICE optimizations that are more important for forking
- 06:20:44 [steveanton]
- bernard: might not be that complex if you started from scratch and knew what you wanted to do
- 06:21:35 [steveanton]
- peter: two code bases which would need to implement forking
- 06:21:39 [steveanton]
- no current plans for either to do it
- 06:22:35 [steveanton]
- hta: not hearing much enthusiasm in the room
- 06:22:36 [jianjunz]
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- 06:22:51 [steveanton]
- jib: more use cases could motivate implementors
- 06:23:42 [steveanton]
- bernard: p2p mesh is an issue in the use cases repo
- 06:25:44 [inamori_]
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- 06:37:20 [ericc]
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- 06:43:38 [dom]
- Topic: Features at risk
- 06:43:41 [dom]
- ScribeNick: dom
- 06:50:58 [dom]
- JIB: Overview of feature at risks: there are about 12 features marked at risk
- 06:51:07 [sugi]
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- 06:51:15 [dom]
- ... I'll present some of our options to manage features at risks
- 06:51:28 [dom]
- .. if no implementation and no dev interest, we remove the feature
- 06:51:47 [dom]
- ... if no implementation but dev interest, we can leave the spec if we expect imminent implementation
- 06:51:53 [dom]
- ... if not, we can move to an extension
- 06:52:03 [inamori_]
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- 06:52:31 [dom]
- ... We conducted an analysis of what was implemented where to identify which features should be at risk
- 06:52:42 [dom]
- ... focusing on things with fewer than 2 implementations and no clear implementation commitment
- 06:53:11 [dom]
- ... for instance, rollback has only 1 implementation, but there is one ongoing
- 06:53:25 [dom]
- ... [reviewing the list to check for possible mistakes]
- 06:55:16 [dom]
- ... VoiceActivityDetection is at risk - only one (buggy) implementation
- 06:55:22 [dom]
- Bernard: does it negotiate CN?
- 06:55:26 [steveanton]
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- 06:55:28 [dom]
- Henrik: checking it now
- 06:55:41 [Amit]
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- 06:56:13 [dom]
- JIB: OauthCredential is not implemented anywhere
- 06:56:42 [dom]
- Henrik: re VoiceActivityDetection, what Chrome ships can be done via setParameters
- 06:56:55 [dom]
- JIB: pranswer - 2 impl
- 06:57:12 [dom]
- Youenn: not sure our implementation should really count; this may need to be marked at risk
- 06:57:20 [dom]
- JIB: we're interested in implementing, but it hasn't been a priority
- 06:57:34 [dom]
- ... QoS priority is at risk
- 06:57:49 [dom]
- ... icecandidateerror?
- 06:58:12 [dom]
- Henrik: it's shipped in Chrome and old-Edge
- 06:58:28 [dom]
- Youenn: will need to be tested
- 06:59:03 [dom]
- JIB: RTCError isn't shipped yet anywhere
- 06:59:40 [dom]
- Henrik: we have the basic plumbing, but finalizing it is more work than you would expect
- 07:02:12 [dom]
- Dom: how confident are we about this landing any time? any risk of later interop?
- 07:02:26 [dom]
- Youenn: pages could break if they've started relying on existing error names
- 07:02:53 [dom]
- ... Should we instead specify what currently ships (if interoperable)
- 07:03:22 [dom]
- Bernard: we designed RTCError to provide more details
- 07:04:17 [dom]
- ... Errors in operational services occur at a very high rate
- 07:06:10 [dom]
- Dom: let's plan on discussing this tomorrow
- 07:06:37 [dom]
- JIB: simulcast-aware stats?
- 07:06:41 [dom]
- Henrik: spec is ready
- 07:06:50 [dom]
- JIB: commitment from Edge and Firefox to implement
- 07:08:59 [dom]
- ... Are they MTI?
- 07:09:22 [dom]
- Henrik: adopting them means changing the behavior in a backwards incompatible way
- 07:10:02 [dom]
- JIB: statsended we decided to remove
- 07:10:12 [dom]
- ... setStreams?
- 07:10:20 [dom]
- Orphis: in Chrome
- 07:10:29 [dom]
- Youenn: planned for us
- 07:10:37 [dom]
- JIB: us too, by the end of the year
- 07:11:19 [dom]
- ... RTCPeerConnectionIceEvent.url is only in Safari - any other implementation commitment?
- 07:11:36 [dom]
- Bernard: I think we would want to do this for Edge/Chrome
- 07:11:51 [dom]
- JIB: planned for us, but probably not by EOY
- 07:12:26 [dom]
- JIB: Identity - in Stockholm, we reached a compromise to split identity into a separate spec
- 07:12:37 [dom]
- ... there are still a few normative ref from -pc to -identity
- 07:12:42 [dom]
- ... but still only one implementation
- 07:13:03 [dom]
- ... are we ok with that situation?
- 07:13:18 [dom]
- Youenn: I think it should be marked at risk
- 07:13:35 [dom]
- JIB: getDefaultIceServices - not implemented should be marked at risk
- 07:13:57 [dom]
- ... we have 28 MTI stats that show as not implemented in WPT, but probably just because they've moved recently and the tests need to be updated
- 07:14:16 [dom]
- Youenn: Firefox and Chrome are the two main implementor for stats
- 07:14:25 [dom]
- Armanda: does the tests need an update?
- 07:14:31 [dom]
- s/a:/o:/
- 07:14:48 [dom]
- JIB: no, but implementations need to catch up with stats
- 07:15:12 [dom]
- ... I don't think they should be in jeopardy because they moved
- 07:15:23 [dom]
- ... Firefox doesn't have track-stats yet
- 07:16:43 [dom]
- Dom: is the list of MTI stats in -pc correct?
- 07:17:59 [dom]
- Henrik: it will have to be updated to match the results of our stats discussion tomorrow
- 07:18:13 [dom]
- JIB: OAuthCredentials?
- 07:18:37 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: move OAuthCredential to extension
- 07:20:06 [dom]
- JIB: negotiate for rtcpTransport? (issue 3 in spec)
- 07:20:32 [dom]
- Harald: impl got nuked, too confusing
- 07:20:48 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: negotiate for rtcpTransport to be removed
- 07:21:00 [dom]
- JIB: VoiceActivityDetection?
- 07:21:08 [dom]
- Henrik: over taken by events, let's remove
- 07:21:16 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: remove VoiceActivityDetection
- 07:21:48 [dom]
- JIB: getDefaultIceServers()?
- 07:22:05 [dom]
- Youenn: move to an extension and wait for a proponent to push for an improved proposal
- 07:22:18 [dom]
- JIB: getSUpportedAlgorithms?
- 07:22:26 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: remove getSupportedAlgorithms
- 07:22:43 [dom]
- JIB: SendParameters.priority?
- 07:22:49 [dom]
- Orphis: remove
- 07:23:13 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: remove SendParameters.priority and prioritytype enum
- 07:23:25 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: remove ReceiveParameters.encodings
- 07:23:30 [dom]
- Orphis: (they're pointless)
- 07:23:40 [dom]
- JIB: EncodingParameters.dtx?
- 07:23:51 [dom]
- Bernard: nobody implements
- 07:24:00 [dom]
- Orphis: available via SDP munging for OPUS in Chrome
- 07:24:15 [dom]
- Harald: let's drop it
- 07:24:49 [dom]
- Orphis: this applies to ptime and codecpayloadtype should also be at risk
- 07:25:27 [dom]
- Henrik: a large discussion: there would be a need to control the codecs you sent beyond what to do with negotiation today
- 07:25:34 [dom]
- Orphis: right now, it's read-only
- 07:26:04 [dom]
- Henrik: codecpayloadtype could be removed and brought back later if there is demand in an extension
- 07:26:15 [dom]
- Orphis: ptime isn't implemented, not clear demand
- 07:26:40 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: Remove .dtx, .ptime, .codecpayloadtype from EncodingParameters
- 07:26:49 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: datachannel priority to be removed
- 07:28:36 [dom]
- Dom: Identity - mozilla sole implementor?
- 07:28:44 [dom]
- JIB: we want to see it adopted
- 07:29:32 [dom]
- ... the peerIdentity steps could perhaps be moved to -identity
- 07:29:58 [dom]
- Henrik: moving out is an editorial question
- 07:30:08 [dom]
- ... but the real question is whether identity is part of 1.0
- 07:30:22 [dom]
- Youenn: no plan to implement in 1.0; interested in the field, but not sure this is the right solution
- 07:30:37 [dom]
- ... there may be other issues that need to be addressed with higher priority
- 07:31:10 [dom]
- ... we don't want to be tied to that particular solution at this time
- 07:32:14 [dom]
- RESOLUTION: migrate the remaining identity steps to -identity
- 07:33:20 [dom]
- Dom: we also need to figure out how to re-integrate isolated media streams into our normative sphere
- 07:34:18 [dom]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 07:34:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webrtc-minutes.html dom
- 07:35:14 [dom]
- Topic: Developer feedback
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- 08:43:43 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Topic: Mészáros Mihály’s Developer Feedback
- 08:43:43 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Mészáros: TURN for NRENs, Higher education & research.
- 08:43:43 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Global turn server, the goal is to keep media traffic in their network.
- 08:43:43 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Multi-tenant TURN is not possible without Long Term Credential.
- 08:43:43 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Working on co-located TURN, working on implementation in Firefox and possibly Chrome.
- 08:43:44 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Why not just add these three attributes, it would require little changes to mechanisms. Should be little effort.
- 08:43:47 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... We should consider keeping OAuth until we have alternatives for TURN.
- 08:43:49 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Dom: Pressure to reach 1.0. Moving this out of the spec does not mean it is not going to happen, but we will need people to get involved to make sure spec and implementations are maintained. And write tests. We will likely reach out to you about future involvement.
- 08:43:53 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Youenn: You say the existing API is not great, but is the current API working as a hack?
- 08:43:55 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Mészáros: We use short term credentials and the behave TURN REST draft but I am not happy with this, there is a better way. We rely on the non-standard.
- 08:43:58 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Harald: Do any of the browsers implement the behave TURN REST? How do you do this with current implementations of browsers?
- 08:44:01 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Mészáros: It would be nice to have one authentication server anywhere.
- 08:44:05 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Topic: Sean’s Developer Feedback
- 08:44:07 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Sean: I work on a go implementation of WebRTC. A lot of people come with complaints about how they want their ICE to work. There’s so much going on.
- 08:44:10 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Small businesses want to use WebRTC but they have to use other things because they have restricted port ranges.
- 08:44:13 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Once a week someone complains about addIceCandidate before setRemoteDescription. Can we catch them or throw them in a queue? Re-order operations? It would save new developers a lot of time.
- 08:44:16 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Jan-Ivar: The reason you can’t do addIceCandidate in a different order they could end up in the first offer.
- 08:44:19 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Sean: That’s only an issue for the first offer.
- 08:44:21 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Jan-Ivar: There’s no limitation you can only negotiate once. There’s a race potential: If you get a remote offer you have to set it before you await other operations.
- 08:44:24 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Sean: In the real world this is a problem. People cache candidates for example. Jan-Ivar: You shouldn’t cache.
- 08:44:27 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Sean: Closing (message+code) can be done by sending a final message
- 08:44:29 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Ability to deny a data channel based on data channel name. Not sure if enough value.
- 08:44:31 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Media via DataChannels is being more and more popular. Lack of HW acceleration.
- 08:44:35 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Some people would be happy with more latency for less packet loss? Both reliable and unreliable data channels. People want more flexibility than they can get with the current APIs.
- 08:44:38 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... People want setCodecPreferences; SDP munging is painful. I’m tired of seeing people munge SDP and it blows up in their face.
- 08:44:41 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Lack of CipherSuite choices: people want HW acceleration.
- 08:44:43 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... addStream vs addTrack vs addTransceiver. Causes headaches, people don’t understand what’s going on.
- 08:44:45 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Provisional offers/answer: Do we need them? I have to answer questions about it all the time.
- 08:44:47 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Can we make API simpler for porting to other languages like not having to use strings?
- 08:44:49 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Tor Snowflake uses DataChannels and spend a lot of time removing the ability to fingerprint. Can we set ciphers?
- 08:44:52 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Topic: Silvia’s Developer Feedback
- 08:44:54 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Silvia: Mostly complaining about things from a WebRTC Telemedicine developer’s point of view. We have to jump through hoops to make things interoperable! Chrome, Firefox, Safari.
- 08:44:57 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... We have to recommend people not to use Firefox due to worse media quality. High-level report; don’t know why this is the case.
- 08:45:00 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... We use the new API, using multiple streams works well in Chrome but not in Firefox. Interop problems.
- 08:45:02 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... We sometimes hit decoding problems.
- 08:45:06 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Stats is a pain point: new getStats has much less information than the old one. Plus different browsers have different implementations of the standard getStats API as well.
- 08:45:09 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... The API doesn’t really tell you whether or not media is flowing. We look at time of the media elements, usually it works but not always. It’s hard to detect playback issues. Any suggestions on finding out if media disappeared? The browser thinks the connection is there but we’re not receiving any frames.
- 08:45:13 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Data channels for video: You don’t have to deal with a lot of complexities. Interoperability is combinatorially more complicated when you have to deal with all the different versions of the specs.
- 08:45:16 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Topic: Emil’s Developer Feedback
- 08:45:18 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Emil: Will put in slides after the meeting. I have three items:
- 08:45:20 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... One of the pain points: messiness around switching “plans” (Plan B vs Unified Plan). This does not solve any problems for us; it would be good to ensure this could be done gradually. Like SSRCs vs RIDs: it would be good to have SSRCs in the meantime while SFUs upgrade to RID support.
- 08:45:24 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... We keep hearing not all windows are sharable on windows.
- 08:45:26 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... As an SFU provider we want to assist call quality. Take audio quality for example, there’s really no way for us to improve audio quality. For video it’s simpler but limited. We would like to be able to add our own FEC to PeerConnection. Those hooks discussed a few years ago by Justin would be really nice. We would like to do End-to-End Encryption. Harald’s proposal is compatible with our goals. We would like hooks on the client side at diff
- 08:45:31 [dontcallmeDOM]
- erent points in the pipeline to add our own logic.
- 08:45:35 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Topic: “Others on the Line”: Max
- 08:45:37 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Max: Lack of granular port ranges.
- 08:45:39 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... How do we add hooks on different parts of the stack. We are excited about these things becoming part of the standard and
- 08:45:42 [dontcallmeDOM]
- ... Currently stuck on Plan B and is experiencing difficulties shipping Unified Plan, especially around SSRCs vs RIDs, but plan is to move to MID/RID multiplexing architecture.
- 08:45:45 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Harald: Do you think we should revive SSRC signaling? Should we revive the draft that I wrote?
- 08:45:47 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Max: Yes. Loudly adding a plus one!
- 08:45:49 [dontcallmeDOM]
- i/Topic: Mészáros/ScribeNick: dontcallmeDOM
- 08:45:51 [dontcallmeDOM]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 08:45:51 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webrtc-minutes.html dontcallmeDOM
- 08:47:13 [dontcallmeDOM]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2011/04/webrtc/wiki/September_19-20_2019#F2F_during_W3C_TPAC_2019
- 08:47:19 [dontcallmeDOM]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 08:47:19 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-webrtc-minutes.html dontcallmeDOM
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