IRC log of virtual-scroller on 2019-09-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 05:34:21 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #virtual-scroller
- 05:34:21 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-virtual-scroller-irc
- 05:34:49 [zcorpan__]
- ScribeNick: zcorpan
- 05:34:52 [dauwhe_]
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- 05:34:57 [AmeliaBR]
- present+
- 05:35:00 [Kiyoshi]
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- 05:35:06 [zcorpan__]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-readable
- 05:35:14 [zcorpan__]
- RRSAgent, make logs
- 05:35:14 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'make logs', zcorpan__. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 05:35:16 [Zakim]
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- 05:35:22 [stantonm]
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- 05:35:22 [zcorpan__]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 05:35:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-virtual-scroller-minutes.html zcorpan__
- 05:35:24 [dauwhe_]
- present+
- 05:35:28 [romain_]
- present+
- 05:35:30 [zcorpan__]
- present+
- 05:35:39 [mstange]
- present+
- 05:35:40 [spectranaut]
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- 05:35:43 [zcorpan__]
- Topic: Virtual scroller
- 05:35:54 [zcorpan__]
- [presentation]
- 05:35:59 [spectranaut]
- note taking reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bor78BuB-bnb_m-5JSWziMirgUivI00197l3QqdGNgU/edit?usp=sharing
- 05:36:16 [marisa]
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- 05:36:31 [marisa]
- present+
- 05:37:03 [rniwa]
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- 05:37:14 [rniwa]
- present+
- 05:37:18 [JuanCorona]
- present+
- 05:38:05 [rakina]
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- 05:38:12 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: behaves mostly as an empty div
- 05:38:21 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: contains style and layout at the moment
- 05:38:59 [spectranaut]
- present+ Valerie Young, Bocoup
- 05:39:08 [drousso]
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- 05:39:10 [drousso]
- present_
- 05:39:12 [drousso]
- present+
- 05:39:12 [zcorpan__]
- present- Bocoup
- 05:39:35 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: the contents are not in the DOM...
- 05:39:40 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: like display: none
- 05:39:51 [krit]
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- 05:40:13 [smfr]
- present+
- 05:40:28 [rbyers]
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- 05:40:35 [mattwoodrow]
- present+
- 05:40:52 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: WICG/display-locking
- 05:41:06 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: activatable
- 05:41:19 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: has same perf characteristics
- 05:41:21 [JakeA]
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- 05:41:29 [JakeA]
- I made the DOM comment before
- 05:41:30 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: behave as if it's visible
- 05:42:02 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: focus() scrollIntoView(), find in page, can reveal content
- 05:42:07 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: deferred cost
- 05:42:13 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: tab navigation
- 05:42:21 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: anchor navigation, selection
- 05:42:41 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: a11y purposes
- 05:42:54 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: idea is that you build a scroller using this
- 05:43:05 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: previously you would delete DOM objects
- 05:43:15 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: instead you can build a scroller where things are invisible activatable
- 05:43:22 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: things inside are visible as normal
- 05:43:31 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: the browser will activate and scroll into view
- 05:43:39 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: make the things around it visible as well
- 05:43:59 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: are you relying on intersectionobserver?
- 05:44:02 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: yes
- 05:44:10 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: debate on when things are activated
- 05:44:27 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: type cntr+f
- 05:44:39 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: activate the first one
- 05:44:46 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: have to figure out what to do with the tick parts
- 05:44:47 [cbiesinger]
- q=
- 05:44:49 [cbiesinger]
- q+
- 05:45:14 [smfr]
- q+
- 05:45:25 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: all the elements above will push down
- 05:45:53 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: accuracy of scrollbars vs performance
- 05:46:03 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: tickmarks will be "pretty good"
- 05:46:11 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: yeah, tradeoff
- 05:46:13 [koji]
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- 05:46:34 [smaug]
- mstange
- 05:46:37 [Domenic]
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- 05:46:46 [sanketj]
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- 05:46:48 [zcorpan__]
- mstange: if the user presses the first letter of the find bar ???
- 05:46:59 [zcorpan__]
- X???: something something
- 05:47:08 [zcorpan__]
- q?
- 05:47:19 [zcorpan__]
- cbiesinger: does it require javacsript to activate?
- 05:47:21 [drousso]
- q?
- 05:47:22 [mstange]
- s/find bar ???/find bar, does the entire page need to be styled?/
- 05:47:24 [drousso]
- q+
- 05:47:27 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: yes
- 05:47:31 [xiaochengh]
- q+ for selection activation
- 05:47:43 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: should scrolling activate or not?
- 05:47:43 [mstange]
- s/X???: something something/fergal_daly: Yes, but you can do it in chunks./
- 05:48:04 [zcorpan__]
- Chris: I'll go with consensus
- 05:48:06 [chrishtr]
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- 05:48:13 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: find a bunch of things containing A's
- 05:48:21 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: first thing will be activated
- 05:48:33 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: it's now always going to paint, unless JS makes it invisible again?
- 05:48:45 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: ctrl+a can make all things visible?
- 05:48:55 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: only the first thing that is found
- 05:49:06 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it will reveal the one with "a"
- 05:49:10 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it will scroll to that
- 05:49:17 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it should reveal everything around it
- 05:49:31 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: something
- 05:50:01 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: have to do layout in order to find anything at all
- 05:50:12 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: innerText workings
- 05:50:16 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: which requires layout
- 05:50:22 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: in browsers and spec
- 05:50:29 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: that's not how you'd implement it
- 05:50:48 [zcorpan__]
- koji: (something)
- 05:51:02 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: the UA part of that is UA-dependent how to find stuff
- 05:51:15 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: thjere's nothing in the spec about find
- 05:51:16 [smfr]
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- 05:51:21 [chrishtr]
- q?
- 05:51:22 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: anchor navigation is specified
- 05:51:27 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: it's observable
- 05:51:33 [JakeA]
- q+ interested to hear the order of events on anchor navigation
- 05:51:36 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: how would you find out what's there
- 05:51:43 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: image doesn't load, use alt text
- 05:51:43 [smfr]
- q-
- 05:51:46 [cbiesinger]
- ack cbiesinger
- 05:51:57 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: sounds like a terrible user experience
- 05:52:12 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: currently user doesn't find anything at all because it's not in th eDOM
- 05:52:21 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: if you choose to implement your website that way
- 05:52:27 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: people do
- 05:52:39 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: for a largely text site it should just work
- 05:52:40 [zcorpan__]
- q?
- 05:52:49 [zcorpan__]
- ack drousso
- 05:52:56 [zcorpan__]
- drousso: if you're dealing with custom elements
- 05:52:58 [smaug]
- q+
- 05:53:04 [zcorpan__]
- drousso: have to delay until custom element finishes its upgrade
- 05:53:05 [JakeA]
- q+
- 05:53:16 [zcorpan__]
- drousso: delaying until script is done
- 05:53:18 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: yes
- 05:53:40 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: can imagine things in the DOM where things are done nicely first before the user scrolls
- 05:53:48 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: take control of sequencing
- 05:54:03 [zcorpan__]
- drousso: (something)
- 05:54:05 [jackbsteinberg]
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- 05:54:22 [zcorpan__]
- q?
- 05:54:46 [zcorpan__]
- Chris: if you remove those values from the list of things in the render subtree
- 05:55:03 [zcorpan__]
- Chris: elements not defined in the subtree will be run in the next microtask subtask
- 05:55:11 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: spec is not finilized
- 05:55:22 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: will be kicked off in the usual order
- 05:55:27 [zcorpan__]
- q?
- 05:55:48 [zcorpan__]
- ack xiaochengh
- 05:55:48 [Zakim]
- xiaochengh, you wanted to discuss selection activation
- 05:56:01 [zcorpan__]
- xiaochengh: interaction , can't activate the subtree
- 05:56:09 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: all we can do is better than what we do now
- 05:56:12 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it's not magic
- 05:56:20 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: we need to have things formatted and pasted
- 05:56:30 [zcorpan__]
- xiaochengh: can we delay that until Cntrl+c
- 05:56:48 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: we can do it sync when we want, just like ctrl+f
- 05:57:05 [heycam]
- q+
- 05:57:05 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: making it more UA-dependent when this content becomes real instead of virtual
- 05:57:16 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: the UA can decide how to interact with these in a useful way
- 05:57:17 [zcorpan__]
- q?
- 05:57:25 [heycam]
- ack interested
- 05:57:25 [Zakim]
- interested, you wanted to hear the order of events on anchor navigation
- 05:57:36 [zcorpan__]
- smaug: breaks microtask model
- 05:57:49 [zcorpan__]
- smaug: calls (something) at random times
- 05:57:55 [zcorpan__]
- smaug: extra microtask checkpoints
- 05:58:02 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: let's cue a task to do a thing
- 05:58:03 [zcorpan__]
- smaug: ok
- 05:58:08 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: point well taken
- 05:58:18 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: if there's a sudden movement in scroll pos
- 05:58:28 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: anchor is visible but jumping to 500'th
- 05:58:35 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: virtual scroller problem
- 05:58:42 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: if it's "scroll by this many pixels"
- 05:58:54 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: we need an API for author or external user for size hinting or something
- 05:59:13 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: absolute size, relative to things you've seen so far...
- 05:59:15 [chrishtr]
- q?
- 05:59:19 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: tradeoff of do you want to render or not
- 05:59:29 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: the invisible ones, or they all come into view at once
- 05:59:30 [zcorpan__]
- q?
- 05:59:38 [heycam]
- ack heycam
- 05:59:39 [smaug]
- q-
- 05:59:43 [JakeA]
- q-
- 05:59:51 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: in this model of virtual scroller
- 06:00:02 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: would be pretty common to style the entire page
- 06:00:08 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: when you find in page
- 06:00:20 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: a box for those things, potentially very large DOM
- 06:00:23 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: large box tree
- 06:00:28 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: many things in a row
- 06:00:38 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: yea. not be able to avoid styling the entire doc
- 06:00:48 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: reflow and frame construction for rthings not displayed
- 06:00:57 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: hwo perf gonna be when you still need to do those things
- 06:01:05 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it's a problem, will come to it later
- 06:01:15 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: demos show how fast this makes things
- 06:01:25 [zcorpan__]
- Topic: Scroller API
- 06:01:41 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: JSON<-> DOM
- 06:01:48 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: unusual API but I think it's nice
- 06:02:05 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: API is <virtual-scroller>, put yoru content inside, it works
- 06:02:13 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it knows when to hide stuff
- 06:02:24 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: you're proposing a new element?
- 06:02:30 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it's a custom element
- 06:02:33 [zcorpan__]
- LOL
- 06:02:41 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it's very nice!
- 06:02:47 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: you can delete divs,
- 06:02:52 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: scrollbars require an API
- 06:03:10 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it's a container that knows when to hide its children
- 06:03:23 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: how gonna do it? not machine learning...
- 06:03:28 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: observe visible content
- 06:03:35 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: tradeoffs, can't have everything
- 06:03:47 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: assumes visible order == DOM order
- 06:03:54 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: latency issue, no timing guarantees
- 06:03:59 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: hasn't been a problem yet
- 06:04:09 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: interserction observer looks like. it's observing these elements
- 06:04:12 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: also mutation observer
- 06:04:29 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: just moving things around, all we need to do is observe things visible, one above, one below
- 06:04:40 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: will trigger at least one of the observers and we'll react
- 06:04:48 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: if anyone can think of other cases...
- 06:05:09 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: interserction observer uses position after transformations?
- 06:05:10 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: yes
- 06:05:17 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: don't need to observe the whole world
- 06:05:41 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: mutation observer, lets us know when content has changed
- 06:05:55 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: slots everything into one big slot
- 06:06:07 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: later prototype with 1 slot per child
- 06:06:20 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: can baloon the number of slots, but seems to work ok
- 06:06:37 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: this would actually scroll. a div, overflow:scroll, virtual-scroller inside
- 06:06:37 [JuanCorona]
- q?
- 06:06:42 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: we don't know about scrollbars
- 06:06:48 [zcorpan__]
- Topic: Demos
- 06:07:01 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: simple infinite scroller
- 06:07:10 [JakeA]
- q+
- 06:07:30 [zcorpan__]
- (shows demo that scrolls and stuff is fetched on scroll)
- 06:07:40 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: can't observe thing being locked, but it is
- 06:07:52 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: just replace div with virtual-scroller
- 06:08:05 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: another demo. this is more interesting because this is just content
- 06:08:13 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: addresss book
- 06:08:17 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: sticky position
- 06:08:23 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: B pops up as you go
- 06:08:27 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: done the same way
- 06:08:38 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: all it does is replace virtual-scroller with div
- 06:08:48 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: some virtual scroller have ???
- 06:08:58 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: do things as you would normally
- 06:09:15 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: (demo resizing doing relayout) 60fps
- 06:09:20 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: with div, 30fps
- 06:10:07 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: how many elements?
- 06:10:10 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: 500
- 06:10:16 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: wanted to add more
- 06:10:24 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: hwo are you handling fling scrolling?
- 06:10:38 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it does unlock a region above and below
- 06:10:43 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: can't do in this demo
- 06:10:46 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it's an issue
- 06:10:52 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: fling can jump very far
- 06:11:00 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: it takes a frame or so to catch up
- 06:11:15 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: hit intersection observer... layout trashing?
- 06:11:21 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: happens once a frame
- 06:11:29 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: fling takes half a second. 30 frames
- 06:11:46 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: how much does JS need to catch up
- 06:11:50 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: (missed)
- 06:12:03 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: don't have a demo
- 06:12:10 [smfr]
- s/(missed)/it depends on how your IO works. you can add margins too
- 06:12:13 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: intersectionobserver would tell something is onscreen
- 06:12:27 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: figuring out what should be onscreen takes JS to figure out
- 06:12:34 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it gets new stuff on screen in the same frame
- 06:12:39 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: fixed height?
- 06:12:53 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it won't be the same stuff that comes on screen. will be different stuff
- 06:13:09 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it'll go down 60% and determine based on placeholder heights
- 06:13:18 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: so for display:none, things are at the top
- 06:13:23 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: JS has to take a guess
- 06:13:25 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: yes
- 06:13:47 [JakeA]
- q-
- 06:14:13 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: can resize font
- 06:14:18 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: can restlye things
- 06:14:26 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: lower fps with the div
- 06:14:38 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: ok so the HTML standard...
- 06:14:47 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: it's a pretty heavy doc. 11MB with a lot of stuff
- 06:14:54 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: not as bad as it used to be
- 06:15:07 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: (showing waterfall of page load)
- 06:15:23 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: happily it's a doc with 11000 elements that are siblings
- 06:15:32 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: using virtual-scroller is easy
- 06:15:36 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: far fewer red frames
- 06:16:12 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: doc got better at some point
- 06:16:20 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: cntrl+f works!
- 06:16:31 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: user experience when loading page is much smoother
- 06:16:49 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: there was a problem with ctrl+f... took 5 minutes with 100% cpu
- 06:16:53 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: few more days!
- 06:17:12 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: perf issue of HTML spec can have to do with custom element upgrading
- 06:17:43 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: 1000 divs is still pretty heavy
- 06:17:53 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: more proof of concept than a prototype
- 06:18:13 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: loading the HTML standard again, loading into a thing
- 06:18:18 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: many many slots
- 06:18:22 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: takes a while to load
- 06:18:46 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: resizing the HTML standard, 20-30 fps
- 06:19:06 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: what content size property?
- 06:19:14 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: this is a different implementation. tree impl
- 06:19:27 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: tree impl builds a 16 way tree of elements
- 06:19:31 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: leaves are slots
- 06:19:43 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: leaves are grouped together in 16, in 16, etc
- 06:19:51 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: slots and all of their ancestors
- 06:19:58 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: no long runs of divs of what is unlocked
- 06:20:08 [zcorpan__]
- koji: (missed question)
- 06:20:19 [zcorpan__]
- heycam: may be relevant for scrollbar thumb size
- 06:20:25 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: sets a fixed content sizes
- 06:20:31 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: sums them and makes them bigger
- 06:20:43 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: tree one has more complex implementation
- 06:21:05 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: 10,000 pagagraphs, works fine
- 06:21:08 [chrishtr]
- present+
- 06:21:11 [chrishtr]
- q?
- 06:21:15 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: sibling can go down to 2fps
- 06:21:18 [Domenic]
- s/10,000/100,000
- 06:21:29 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: rendersubtree is very scalable
- 06:21:41 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: (something)
- 06:22:04 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: in initial intro, virtual scrolelr is about content loading. also as you scroll down, removing content
- 06:22:09 [smfr]
- s/(something)/this is a different virtual-scroller impl, right? yes. so you can nest them? yes
- 06:22:12 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: that side doesn't seem to be part of the proposal
- 06:22:20 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: accumulate
- 06:22:26 [smfr]
- q+
- 06:22:29 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: invisible things at the top
- 06:22:36 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: small window of visible things
- 06:22:42 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: browser CAN discard
- 06:22:50 [mattwoodrow]
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- 06:22:57 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: ok, 2 things that are tangled
- 06:23:01 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: custom element
- 06:23:11 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: browser would be able to address things based on user interaction
- 06:23:16 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: removing the attribute
- 06:23:27 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: i don't know how it would know how to put the attribute back on
- 06:23:31 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: the browser wouldn't
- 06:23:44 [zcorpan__]
- koji: doing subtree?
- 06:23:53 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: rendersubtree is more readily standardizable thing
- 06:24:16 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: interest in ??? need primitive first.
- 06:24:26 [zcorpan__]
- koji: rendersubtree is what we want to standardize
- 06:24:34 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: no proposal to standardize virtual-scroller
- 06:24:49 [zcorpan__]
- Majid: (missed)
- 06:24:57 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: tab set.. details element
- 06:25:11 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: cant' currently recreate the details element, can with this
- 06:25:17 [rniwa]
- q?
- 06:25:20 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: optimizing page load generally
- 06:25:39 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: do the details element , or not actually close the details element and stil have good perf
- 06:26:06 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: google style guides, all collapsed, ctrl+f... need to uncollapse before searching
- 06:26:20 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: invisible content is still in the DOM, still has layout conceptually
- 06:26:32 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: if script wanted to it could read that layout without displaying content
- 06:26:44 [zcorpan__]
- Majid: accessibility
- 06:26:50 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: the content is there
- 06:27:05 [zcorpan__]
- AmeliaBR: hope there's an area for virtual content
- 06:27:25 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: hwo much of the proposal can you remove but keep optimization in the browser
- 06:27:34 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: you can remove complexity
- 06:27:41 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: is there a reduced version of this?
- 06:27:45 [kiyoshi]
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- 06:27:48 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: can we not need this attribute?
- 06:28:02 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: containment plus content-size plsu something custom elements
- 06:28:03 [kiyoshi]
- present+
- 06:28:16 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: need an opt-in fo rthe perf tradeoff
- 06:28:35 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: CSSWG wanted to maek it usable for visible content
- 06:28:42 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: if we had a thing like that...
- 06:28:55 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: browser could notice that it doesn't need to render
- 06:29:01 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: remove the size containment
- 06:29:08 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: it would have to remove the inviisble thing
- 06:29:15 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: would result in something like this
- 06:29:28 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: if yo ucan think of another way to do it, would be amazing
- 06:29:42 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: tabs case compelling... not something yo uscroll to
- 06:29:49 [zcorpan__]
- smfr: background tab, events
- 06:30:04 [zcorpan__]
- rniwa: (missed) not for us
- 06:30:16 [zcorpan__]
- chrishtr: it's technically not required
- 06:30:19 [duga]
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- 06:30:22 [zcorpan__]
- fergal_daly: filtering with mutation observer
- 06:30:28 [rniwa]
- q?
- 06:30:32 [zcorpan__]
- JakeA: do we have other APIs where browser changes attributes?
- 06:30:35 [zcorpan__]
- Domenic: details
- 06:30:44 [zcorpan__]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 06:30:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-virtual-scroller-minutes.html zcorpan__
- 06:31:10 [zcorpan__]
- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bor78BuB-bnb_m-5JSWziMirgUivI00197l3QqdGNgU/edit#gid=0
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- 07:49:54 [AmeliaBR]
- s/hope there's an area for virtual content/hope you're coordinating with the aria-virtualcontent proposal/
- 07:50:13 [AmeliaBR]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 07:50:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-virtual-scroller-minutes.html AmeliaBR
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