<inserted> scribenick: jeff_
<dauwhe> we need a scribe
<George> Remote people can hear well.
<dauwhe> we still need a scribe
<MURATA> Hi!
<scribe> scribenick: jeff
<inserted> scribenick: jeff_
<laudrain> Thanks Jeff
<laudrain> we need scribing particularly on questions/answers after presentations
Daihei: Coffee break is very
short because we have so much material to cover.
... introducing Murai-sensei
JM: Good morning everyone
... representing W3C Keio
... also Host of TPAC meeting in Japan
... welcome to Fukuoka
... nice venue
... G20 financial ministers also met here
... their optical fiber is still here
... talk about publishing
... I am known as an Internet engineer
... but also a UNIX engineer (originally) working on
internationalization
... much POSIX work is my work
<dauwhe> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun_Murai
JM: Japan cares about text and
language
... most of computer science design started in English
... I accepted proposals in many languages
... POSIX (UNIX OS) and Internet
... RFC 822 said English ASCII only
... but I said to accommodate other lanugages
... History started by proposing change in standard for
internationalization
... accepting multiple languages
... implementing diversity of languages
... LONG history
... Japan uses different languages and culture
... we contribute to internationalization, accessibility, and
diversity
... in 94-96 W3C worked on Olympic/Paralympic
... Olympic website
... started Web Accessibility
... Tokyo Olympics in 2020
... Florian and Elika will explain to the AC this
afternoon
... Vertical writing progress
... demonstrates diversity
... not only for Japan
Florian: CSS Writing Modes
progress
... from the CSS WG
... reaching the level of W3C Proposed Recommendation
... on its way to the W3C Director
... will get AC review
... this powers Vertical text in Japanese
... many others did the work
... bugs have been fixed
... after AC review it will be a formal W3C
Recommendation
... complete at the spec level
... Japan has been major driver
... more work to do
... thanks to the broad Japan team
JM: I appreciate efforts
... and your (Florian) efforts)
... also in publishing
... important
... users on internet is almost everyone
... big change in 30 years
... our contribution goes to everyone
... publishing work for everyone
... really appreciate your efforts
... Thank you
... enjoy Fukuoka
DS: Good work in CSS
... thanks to Jun Murai
... thanks to APA for their support
... also Kodansha, Shueisha
Luc: Thanks to APL
... I hand it to Dave Cramer (Hachette) for the EPUB update
DC: I co-chair EPUB CG with
Rachel Comerford
... working on EPUB since 2001
... in 2017 IDPF merged into W3C, starting the publishing work
in W3C
... 2 big problems
... noone was using EPUB 3.1
... no support from EPUBCheck
... The CG wants to make things better
... so we looked at these problems
... preserve EPUB 3 content
... Makoto-san and Garth Convoy (Google) recommended that we
take 3.1, but make it backwards compatible with 3.01 - widely
used in the world
... so Matt Garish and I rewrote the spec
... what to keep from 3.1
... what to roll back for compatibility
... bug fix
... The CG was open to all interested parties
... anyone in the world
... not only members
... 61 people participated
... a community effort
... In May we published EPUB 3.2 as a W3C CG spec
... approved by Publishing BG
... EPUB check needed to support EPUB 3.2
... formal validation required by retailers
... EPUBcheck had been dormant - relied on volunteers
... but we ran out of volunteers
... Rachel, Luc, on behalf of W3C wrote an RFP to fund the
work
... Much money raised
... Daisy funded to actually revise EPUBcheck
... released in April; same time we finished EPUB 3.2
... Avneesh here from Daisy
... great accomplishment of whole community
... work together to find problems, do the work, get feedback,
achieve the results
... What is different about EPUB 3.2?
... strict backward compatibility (with EPUB 3.0.1)
... but core web platform (e.g. CSS) is evolving
... instead of writing profiles, we are pointing to HTML spec,
CSS snapshot
... widely available components
... so EPUB has evolved with the underlying technologies
... Web Fonts external to package, WOFF 2.0
... What does this mean?
... If you are creating EPUB 2, you need to move to EPUB
3
... accessibility benefits
... If you are using EPUB 3, you don't need to change
anything
... please use EPUB check
... use progressive enhancement
... If you can't use EPUB 3, come talk to us
... we want to fix that.
... Thank you
Luc: Thank you Dave
... slides will be available
... running late
... skip to Romain
... hope to be short
RD: Brief update on EPUB
check
... what's done, what's next
... I work for Daisy
... mandated to take over development and maintenance of EPUB
check, by the BG
... we needed to make up for 2 years lost time
... dealt with pending issues and bug fixes
... most important was implementation of EPUB 3.2.
... synchronized release
... January to April was testing phase
... released in April; ready for spec
... A community effort
... many comments, feature requests
<naomi> presentt+ tomikura, ryosuke
RD: discussions in CG
... Japanese publishing community noticed a new rule
... created errors for Japanese content
... pushed issue to CG
... made "error" into "warning"
... here are main objectives
... foundational work to make more maintainable and
reliable
<Avneesh> congratulations Romain for driving EPUBCheck to its current state!
RD: improved system for GH issue
tracker
... revamping test suites (>1000 tests)
... more readable
... Next: carry on cleaning and refactoring
... API interface
... simplify for 3rd party tools and workflows
... clean up 10 years of work
... then add new checks
... text and audio
... not historically done by EPUB check
... public website for project
... landing page
... download the latest
... Thanks
Luc: Introduce Takami-sam from
Kadokawa
... I am Shinya Takami
... two questions
... EPUB 3.2 and EPUB check; situation in Japan
... second is future requirements
<Rachel> scribe+
<scribe> scribenick: Rachel
Shinya: existing epub files had errors due to a TOC violation
<romain> the EPUBCheck issue mentioned by Takami-san: https://github.com/w3c/epubcheck/issues/1036
Shinya: we requested a change to
the behavior of epubcheck and the publishing groups
cooperated
... we do need to say that the Japanese epub files are wrong
and there are many many wrong epub files in Japan
<Yanni> This TOC issues happened in Taiwan, too. Thanks for the EPUBCheck community.
Shinya: in 4.2.2 this issue is
now marked as a warning instead of an error
... making this good for the Japanese market
... the next question was a feature request for the future of
epub3
... order specificifcations of the nav doc; fallback spec of
image elements in OPF (manga contents would be packaged more
simply); Attribute spec of "linear=no" in OPF (capability
extension for dynamic advertisement)
Luc: slides will be made
available
... thank you to the companies that have donated to
epubcheck
... this is ongoing development
... fixing existing bugs
... updating to 3.2
... and making it an easier to use tool for future
generations
... wear your tshirts with pride!
... we will switch now to the work of PWG
... and future standards
... I'd like to introduce Wendy Reid, co-chair of the PWG
wendyreid: Thank you
... today I'll speak about the audiobook specification
<inserted> scribenick: Rachel
wendyreid: this work began 2
years ago
... as a part of the conversations around publishing on the
web
... last year we formed a task force around the use cases about
where they differ from ebooks
... we focused on listening, portability, navigation,
accessibility
... when we talk about lsitening we talk about it consistently
without interuption
... potability means downloading, streaming, offline
... navigation means knowing where you are
... and accessibility means enjoying content no matter
ability
... in the process of developing the spec we looked at 4 new
use cases
... they are supplemental content, table of contents,
synchronized media, and packaging
... supplemental content is content outside of the audio
recording that creates a more full experience (ie images)
... table of contents is rich html which gives people the
ability to know where they are
... synch media synchronizes audio and text or tex tand rich
media for the purpose of accessibility
... packaging would allow for simplified exchange for B2B
... and user downloads
... this summer we're reaching out to more stakeholders to find
additional needs and use cases
... and soon we will be moving to candidate recommendation and
looking for implementors
... questions?
... the target date is the summer of 2020
luc: and now Laurent lemeur from EDR Lab
laurent: Thank you
... EDR is a consortium of publishers, accessibility
organizations, technical orgs, etc
... we are working on many things open source, including the
Readium software
... on accessibility, we are working on bringing more
accessibility to reading tools
<laudrain> yes i’ll ask for, thank you!
laurent: Readium is totally open
source and a native toolkit for developers of reading
applications
... we want to support ebooks, comic books, manga, and audio
books the same way
... we want to support more than epubs
... pdfs, wpubs, and anything else
... we also want to mobile (ios, android)
... and on the web
... readium has a client and server part
... which can be the same system or separate
... this is how we can process epub files or web
publications
... we have dedicated some time to implement audio books on our
platform
... we can demo it from our platform outside of the
presentation time
... we are using the "readium web publication"
... our own standard
... we think it will be easy to create a W3C candidate
recommendation from the readium standard
... we would like to port to web publications as soon as next
month
... and are seeking a partnership
... this would start with mobile/ios
... and then be on desktop and the thorium reader
... and then finally be support by readium web (online
only)
<romain> scribenick: romain
<scribe> scribenick: romain
hiroshi_kawamura: I'd like to
show a presentation of an actual Japanese textbook
... then present the situation of ebook accessibility in
Japan
[demo, in japanese]
hiroshi_kawamura: the narration
is associated with the text hilighted on the screen
... the narration here is normal speed, can be increased
x3
... or lowered to 80%, e.g. for learners of new languages
... it also supports vertical writing
... in Japanese-language textbooks, vertical writing
(right-to-left) is a standard practice
... we can also change the color combinations, for instance for
low-vision users or dyslexic sudents
... the idea is to adapt to the users' needs
... the text font size can be adjusted
... and the content reflows
... someone said it's very difficult to narrate maths
expressions [cue demo of maths content]
... there are both a text description and an audio
description
... the EPUB Media Overlays allow us to associate human
narration to the text
... or the text can be read by TTS
... this is a very important feature to support scientific
content, relying on MathML
... about Born Accessible Publishing in Japan
... the overal legislation situation: ratification of the CRPD
and the Marrakesh Treaty
... they are in place in Japan
... but what about actual content?
... reasonable accomodation: there is always a solution to
read, readily available solutions
... now that we are hearing that EPUB 3.2 is ready, and
EPUBCheck is available, and the ISO standard for EPUB
Accessibility will soon be in place
... I would like to point out that ~400 million USD are spent
every year for public procurement of text books in Japan
... accessibility of textbooks is a basic human right
issue
... it's a top runner of accessible publishing in Japan
... conclusion: there are challenges, but policy development is
the key
... technical development is no longer a barrier
... we need a change of attitude (copiright holders &
publishers), fixing holes in the copyright law, and
standardization of accessible and open affortable protection
measures (like LCP)
... thank you!
[up next: Avneesh Singh, DAISY Consortium]
Avneesh: my presentation is about
born accessible publications, what are the global regulations
for accessibility, and are born accessible publications a
reality?
... my presentation is based on information from DAISY
members
... DAISY members are organizations around the world, committed
to accessibility
... mainly 2 bodies: UN Convention for People with Disability
and Marrakesh treay
... in the US, section 508 applies both to web sites and
publications
... all the agencies must ensure that published content is
accessible to people with disabilities
... applies to publishers, but also to universities
... they need to ensure their publications are born accessible,
or provide alternative content
... in Canada, there is the Accessible Canada Act (2019), and
the government allocated 22 million CAD to help organizations
and publishers to implement the regulation
... in the UK, public sector bodies regulation (2018), say that
web sites and mobile applications need to follow the WCAG
principle (operable, understandable, perceivable, robust)
... in the EU, the groundbreaking Eureopean Accessibility Act
is in place (2019)
... must be implemented in 2022
... it not only requires publishers to release born accessible
content, but the entire chain to provide accessible products
(including e.g. reading systems, retailers, etc)
... in Australia an inclusive publishing initiative was
created
... in the developing countries, Brazil has a regulation
... if a print-disabled user requires a publication, the
publisher must provide an accessible version
... in India, People with Disabilities Act (2016), ebooks for
everyday use must be following a universal design
... specifically about EPUB 3, a community of experts for the
government identified EPUB 3 as the recommended format
... these are the views of the regulations. Are our efforts for
Born Accessible giving the expected results?
... in the US, born accessible is a reality in higher
education
... they are in fact competing around the accessibility
features
... in Italy, the LIA Foundazione is established with the
publishing industry, over 24,000 titles are available
... in Brazil, born accessible is a reality in K-12, more than
6,000 title are available in Braille
... in the UK, it is a reality for simple publications like
novels
... in India, the government publishers have started providing
textbooks in accessible EPUB 3
... in Canada, funding is in place for born accessible to
become a reality soon
... in France, Hachette has taken the iniative for born
accessible publishing, following the roadmap of the
government
... these are countries were it is working
... EPUB 3 released in 2012 intialized this movement for Born
Accessible publications; good progress over the past 7
years
... it was thanks to a collective effort
... I'm confident that in the next decade, we'll born
accessible publications in many other parts of the World
... thank you!
[up next: Makoto Murata, for JEPA]
MURATA_makoto: hi, I'm Makoto
from Keio University
... going to talk about standardization of EPUB
Accessibility
... it started in IDPF, then moved to W3C, and now we're trying
to standardize it at ISO
... the goal is to make it clear if the publication is friendly
to visually impaired persones, dyslexic persones, and so
forth
... if we can properly identify which publications are
accessible, readers can choose what they can read
... for instance, last year a blind colleague of mind bought
ebooks made of rasterized images, without knowing
... what is the current status in ISO?
... we're working on a Draft International Standard
... we just finished the comment disposition
... we just need one more ballot
... the goal is to have an International Standard
... a Draft International Standard is somewhat in between CR
and PR for W3C
... the ballot requires 6 months, then 2 months of comments.
We're hopeful we'll have an International Standards in approx 9
months.
... we received a number of interesting comments from Japanese
publishers and content providers
... one such comment was about external vs. embedded
metadata
... some prefer embedded metadata as it cannot be detached from
the publication, some say that external metadata is better as
it is easier to maintain
Murai: Why not use both?
MURATA_makoto: we think both
appraoches are feasible
... we're investigating this in the EPUB 3 CG
... Kawamura-san presented a diagram with higlighted text and
synchronized audio
... this is a difficult use case, and shows limitations of SVG
and CSS
... Prof ?? required an extension of SVG, we can also count on
Florian's input
... we're working on solutions
... thank you!
<laurent> yoshii: publishing is not just books; magazine ... are in scope, we can expand content
<laurent> ...in the world of publishers, we need to take attention on who created content and for whom.
<laurent> ...in the future we'd like to demonstrate what web publishing can do
<laurent> ...important to have know who publishes info because it's ok in this case to publish stories about Loch Ness etc.
<laurent> ...such info carried by NYT would be a problem.
<laurent> ...there are maybe lots of techno that can be adapted for our needs. This is why we participate to the W3C.
<laurent> ...important for us to maintain what we have built as publishers, also important to look at new markets and technologies. Provide a service that can bring joy to users, and be a trusted publisher. For that superb technology needed.
<laurent> ...I encourage publishers to be more interested in new technologies. The print media industry should be more connected to other domains to transform our industry
<laurent> ...i the past the print publishing industry made a product, no way to transform is later. Changes are already happening in other medias (news, magazines), it it the trend of the industry.
<laurent> this perspective is important.
<laurent> ...thanks.
<laurent> next presenter, Shin Mizushima, Kadokawa
<laurent> shin: I'm the responsible for product management division. raw material, printing, ebook also.
<laurent> ...next generation is there via paper + digital content.
<laurent> ...kadokawa has catched up with trends, 30 to 40.000 books transforms to ebook form.
<laurent> ...4.000 new books per year, ebook put immediately on the market also.
<laurent> ...we way package many times, packages are important.
<laurent> ...the user chooses btw paper or ebook; he chooses the package.
<laurent> ...before users has to choose btw Vinyl and CD (2 packages), now digital distribution (new package)
<laurent> ...many input received for speakers already.
<laurent> ...there are some limitations; some contents can only be expressed in ebook, other in paper only.
<laurent> ...a publishing company must find new values and present that to the readership.
<laurent> ...the business has to be sustained for quite a long time.
<laurent> ...therefore we have to balance production cost and selling price.
<laurent> ...most present people come from IT sector. The cost structure is specific in the publishing sector.
<laurent> ...viable business -> the product must be offered at a reasonable price -> reduce cost of reading material -> build huge inventory.
<laurent> ...if we're selling physical, printing & transport is a cost. Not true in digital form.
<laurent> ...we first produce the paper book then transform to ebook -> lots of work.
<laurent> ...to convert books to disability friendly ebooks is difficult.
<laurent> ...it's an issue of processing technology.
<laurent> ...we need to progress on the processing technology.
<laurent> ...as a publisher we must continue to make efforts for better methods and techno. We already sell book and ebook at the same time.
<laurent> ...both forms have advantages. ebooks -> many in the same device; but without battery, no reading. publishers will continue producing both.
<laurent> ...but the readership will not increase.
<laurent> ...I'm an exception: when I buy a book I buy it in 2 forms, paper and digital.
<laurent> ...thanks.
<laurent> dahei: next presenter is Tatsuya Igarashi, from Sony Corp, chair of w3c media entertainment IG
<laurent> igarashi: there are similarities btw digital publishing and media entertainment.
<laurent> ...delivery; both are networked media, thanks to the raise of internet
<laurent> ...more print media is going online; we see a shift from download to streaming.
<laurent> ...in media entertainment at least; it may hit publishing also.
<laurent> ...in the past there was a need for dedicated devices for media and publications, now shift to mobile devices.
<laurent> ...we also see a move from mono-media (text, audio or video) to rich media (interactive, immersive). Even with a bluray.
<laurent> ...w3c is now working on new techno, expression of media is evolving, this will change the way entertainment is delivered.
<laurent> ...let's study common aspects of business
<laurent> ...open standard will make possible to deliver content to different users, they free us from older industry standardss.
<laurent> ...more content is enjoyed through browsers, thanks to w3c technologies.
<laurent> ...many IT giants are starting services similar to publishers' services.
<laurent> ...thanks to their dominance of advanced technologies
<laurent> ...the limited number of giants, with their delivery platforms, makes so that publishers must build on techno also.
<laurent> Ex. Disney goes directly to consumers, with new platforms.
<laurent> ...thanks
<laurent> luc: last speaker is Florian Rivoal
<laurent> dahei: Florian is involved in the CSS process, also consultant for japanese publishers.
<laurent> ...florian: EPUB 3.2 and EPUBCheck are great achievement, now what?
<laurent> ...epub concentrates on the document. When the spec say "the document must be like" we need a document validator.
<laurent> ...on the web is was the same not long ago. the html4 spec was like epub3 -> how the doc must be.
<laurent> ...the web has changed, now the spec style is focusing on the software.
<laurent> ...in html5 we don't use a document validator, we test the browser.
<laurent> ...when we updated EPUBCheck we discovered that some content previously sold was in error.
<laurent> ...if we focus on the software, we can know if the user can read the content, which is more useful.
<laurent> ...s/was/were
<laurent> ...if we want to use epub for the long term, we'll have better interop if we focus on what the software needs to do rather than what the content needs to be.
<laurent> ...after EPUB (not after EPUB 3.2)?
<laurent> ...epub is separate from the web because the browser does not read it natively.
<laurent> ...the web is the convergent point of many industries
<laurent> ...but the web must learn from publishing, it is not good enough for presenting books and magazines.
<laurent> ...when we work on web publications, we don't improve the web.
<laurent> ...therefore we don't really need a Publishing WG, but we need publishing people in all sorts of groups.
<laurent> ...CSS writing mode was pushed by the publishing industry. Most web (browser) engineers are from the west but with common work with experts from the east we can achieve that.
<laurent> ...by participating to groups about typography, packaging, media, accessibility we'll make the web better.
<laurent> ...thanks
<laurent> JunMurai: do you think browsers may replace reading systems?
<laurent> florian: DVD player became VoD applications, and now VoD services are in browsers.
<laurent> makoto: in the past I was tempted to create a variation of CSS for intl, experts of the W3C said "we'll deal with it". It was a success.
<laurent> wendy: we should be more involved in CSS etc. However I also think there is a place for the Publishing WG.
<laurent> ...we are not that far away from the browsers, we can move a little bit closer.
<laurent> florian: my take is that the publishing people must be careful discussing with other folks.
<dauwhe> RRSAgent: draft minutes
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