IRC log of pbg on 2019-09-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 23:59:50 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-irc
- 23:59:56 [Zakim]
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- 00:00:05 [dauwhe]
- Meeting: Publishing Business Group at TPAC
- 00:00:42 [dauwhe]
- present+
- 00:00:48 [dauwhe]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 00:00:48 [Zakim]
- Present: dauwhe
- 00:00:49 [George]
- present+
- 00:00:50 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, toshiakikoike, Rachel, George, gpellegrino, ivan, dauwhe, mateus, bigbluehat
- 00:00:57 [gpellegrino]
- present+
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- 00:01:01 [Rachel]
- present+
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- present+
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- 00:04:33 [jkamata]
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- 00:05:09 [Yanni]
- present+
- 00:05:26 [jkamata]
- present+
- 00:05:33 [Ralph]
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- 00:05:43 [jeff_]
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- 00:06:20 [dauwhe]
- we need a scribe
- 00:07:54 [laudrain]
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- 00:08:05 [laudrain]
- present+
- 00:09:25 [George]
- Remote people can hear well.
- 00:09:41 [dauwhe]
- we still need a scribe
- 00:10:13 [jyoshii]
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- present+
- 00:10:24 [romain]
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- 00:10:35 [Avneesh]
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- 00:10:39 [romain]
- present+
- 00:10:47 [MURATA]
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- 00:11:06 [shu]
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- 00:11:07 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 00:11:25 [MURATA]
- Hi!
- 00:11:26 [wendyreid]
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- 00:12:43 [jeff_]
- scribenick: jeff
- 00:12:57 [laudrain]
- Thanks Jeff
- 00:13:41 [laudrain]
- we need scribing particularly on questions/answers after presentations
- 00:13:47 [jeff_]
- Daihei: Coffee break is very short because we have so much material to cover.
- 00:13:48 [florian]
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- 00:14:10 [laurent]
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- 00:14:12 [Alan]
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- 00:14:15 [jeff_]
- ... introducing Murai-sensei
- 00:14:16 [Avneesh]
- present+
- 00:14:19 [jeff_]
- JM: Good morning everyone
- 00:14:21 [laurent]
- present+
- 00:14:24 [Alan]
- present+
- 00:14:29 [jeff_]
- ... representing W3C Keio
- 00:14:42 [jeff_]
- ... also Host of TPAC meeting in Japan
- 00:14:47 [jeff_]
- ... welcome to Fukuoka
- 00:14:51 [jeff_]
- ... nice venue
- 00:15:07 [jeff_]
- ... G20 financial ministers also met here
- 00:15:18 [jeff_]
- ... their optical fiber is still here
- 00:15:38 [jeff_]
- ... talk about publishing
- 00:15:50 [jeff_]
- ... I am known as an Internet engineer
- 00:16:04 [jeff_]
- ... but also a UNIX engineer (originally) working on internationalization
- 00:16:12 [jeff_]
- ... much POSIX work is my work
- 00:16:19 [dauwhe]
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun_Murai
- 00:16:40 [jeff_]
- ... Japan cares about text and language
- 00:16:52 [jeff_]
- ... most of computer science design started in English
- 00:17:08 [jeff_]
- ... I accepted proposals in many languages
- 00:17:17 [jeff_]
- ... POSIX (UNIX OS) and Internet
- 00:17:28 [jeff_]
- ... RFC 822 said English ASCII only
- 00:17:41 [jeff_]
- ... but I said to accommodate other lanugages
- 00:18:23 [jeff_]
- ... History started by proposing change in standard for internationalization
- 00:18:31 [jeff_]
- ... accepting multiple languages
- 00:18:38 [jeff_]
- ... implementing diversity of languages
- 00:18:41 [jeff_]
- ... LONG history
- 00:18:51 [jeff_]
- ... Japan uses different languages and culture
- 00:19:09 [jeff_]
- ... we contribute to internationalization, accessibility, and diversity
- 00:19:48 [jeff_]
- ... in 94-96 W3C worked on Olympic/Paralympic
- 00:20:00 [jeff_]
- ... Olympic website
- 00:20:05 [jeff_]
- ... started Web Accessibility
- 00:20:17 [jeff_]
- ... Tokyo Olympics in 2020
- 00:20:33 [jeff_]
- ... Florian and Elika will explain to the AC this afternoon
- 00:20:41 [jeff_]
- ... Vertical writing progress
- 00:20:47 [jeff_]
- ... demonstrates diversity
- 00:20:53 [jeff_]
- ... not only for Japan
- 00:21:54 [jeff_]
- Florian: CSS Writing Modes progress
- 00:22:01 [jeff_]
- ... from the CSS WG
- 00:22:14 [jeff_]
- ... reaching the level of W3C Proposed Recommendation
- 00:22:23 [jeff_]
- ... on its way to the W3C Director
- 00:22:25 [jeff_]
- ... will get AC review
- 00:22:55 [jeff_]
- ... this powers Vertical text in Japanese
- 00:23:04 [jeff_]
- ... many others did the work
- 00:23:13 [jeff_]
- ... bugs have been fixed
- 00:23:32 [jeff_]
- ... after AC review it will be a formal W3C Recommendation
- 00:23:37 [jeff_]
- ... complete at the spec level
- 00:23:43 [jeff_]
- ... Japan has been major driver
- 00:23:46 [jeff_]
- ... more work to do
- 00:23:53 [jeff_]
- ... thanks to the broad Japan team
- 00:24:10 [jeff_]
- JM: I appreciate efforts
- 00:24:16 [jeff_]
- ... and your (Florian) efforts)
- 00:24:21 [jeff_]
- ... also in publishing
- 00:24:31 [jeff_]
- ... important
- 00:24:43 [jeff_]
- ... users on internet is almost everyone
- 00:24:50 [jeff_]
- ... big change in 30 years
- 00:24:57 [jeff_]
- ... our contribution goes to everyone
- 00:25:02 [jeff_]
- ... publishing work for everyone
- 00:25:10 [jeff_]
- ... really appreciate your efforts
- 00:25:13 [jeff_]
- ... Thank you
- 00:25:18 [naomi]
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- 00:25:25 [jeff_]
- ... enjoy Fukuoka
- 00:25:34 [naomi]
- present+
- 00:26:31 [jeff_]
- DS: Good work in CSS
- 00:26:37 [jeff_]
- ... thanks to Jun Murai
- 00:26:42 [jeff_]
- ... thanks to APA for their support
- 00:26:51 [jeff_]
- ... also Kodansha, Shueisha
- 00:26:59 [jeff_]
- Luc: Thanks to APA
- 00:27:13 [jeff_]
- ... I hand it to Dave Cramer (Hachette) for the EPUB update
- 00:27:18 [bobbytung]
- s/APA/APL
- 00:27:29 [jeff_]
- DC: I co-chair EPUB CG with Rachel Comerford
- 00:27:38 [jeff_]
- ... working on EPUB since 2001
- 00:27:51 [jeff_]
- ... in 2017 IDPF merged into W3C, starting the publishing work in W3C
- 00:27:55 [jeff_]
- ... 2 big problems
- 00:28:09 [jeff_]
- ... noone was using EPUB 3.1
- 00:28:09 [Yanni]
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- 00:28:16 [jeff_]
- ... no support from EPUBCheck
- 00:28:26 [tomikura]
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- 00:28:35 [jeff_]
- ... The CG wants to make things better
- 00:28:49 [jeff_]
- ... so we looked at these problems
- 00:28:56 [jeff_]
- ... preserve EPUB 3 content
- 00:29:45 [jeff_]
- ... Makoto-san and Garth Convoy (Google) recommended that we take 3.1, but make it backwards compatible with 3.01 - widely used in the world
- 00:29:53 [Ralph_]
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- 00:30:04 [jeff_]
- ... so Matt Garish and I rewrote the spec
- 00:30:09 [jeff_]
- ... what to keep from 3.1
- 00:30:18 [jeff_]
- ... what to roll back for compatibility
- 00:30:23 [jeff_]
- ... bug fix
- 00:30:27 [skk]
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- 00:30:36 [ryosuke]
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- 00:30:51 [jeff_]
- ... The CG was open to all interested parties
- 00:30:55 [jeff_]
- ... anyone in the world
- 00:30:59 [jeff_]
- ... not only members
- 00:31:08 [jeff_]
- ... 61 people participated
- 00:31:15 [jeff_]
- ... a community effort
- 00:31:43 [jeff_]
- ... In May we published EPUB 3.2 as a W3C CG spec
- 00:31:52 [jeff_]
- ... approved by Publishing BG
- 00:32:01 [jeff_]
- ... EPUB check needed to support EPUB 3.2
- 00:32:10 [jeff_]
- ... formal validation required by retailers
- 00:32:11 [ryosuke_]
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- 00:33:01 [jeff_]
- ... EPUBcheck had been dormant - relied on volunteers
- 00:33:11 [jeff_]
- ... but we ran out of volunteers
- 00:33:38 [jeff_]
- ... Rachel, Luc, on behalf of W3C wrote an RFP to fund the work
- 00:33:42 [jeff_]
- ... Much money raised
- 00:33:52 [naoto]
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- 00:33:56 [jeff_]
- ... Daisy funded to actually revise EPUBcheck
- 00:34:09 [jeff_]
- ... released in April; same time we finished EPUB 3.2
- 00:34:12 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 00:34:12 [naomi]
- present+ nakao
- 00:34:29 [naomi]
- present
- 00:34:36 [jeff_]
- ... Avneesh here from Daisy
- 00:34:36 [naomi]
- s/present/ /
- 00:34:43 [ryosuke_]
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- 00:34:46 [skk]
- present+
- 00:34:48 [naomi]
- present+ naoto
- 00:34:48 [jeff_]
- ... great accomplishment of whole community
- 00:35:06 [jeff_]
- ... work together to find problems, do the work, get feedback, achieve the results
- 00:35:29 [jeff_]
- ... What is different about EPUB 3.2?
- 00:35:31 [ryosuke__]
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- 00:35:47 [jeff_]
- ... strict backward compatibility (with EPUB 3.0.1)
- 00:35:58 [jeff_]
- ... but core web platform (e.g. CSS) is evolving
- 00:36:13 [jeff_]
- ... instead of writing profiles, we are pointing to HTML spec, CSS snapshot
- 00:36:20 [jeff_]
- ... widely available components
- 00:36:25 [Kinpachi]
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- 00:36:35 [jeff_]
- ... so EPUB has evolved with the underlying technologies
- 00:36:59 [Yoshiba]
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- 00:37:01 [jeff_]
- ... Web Fonts external to package, WOFF 2.0
- 00:37:07 [naomi]
- present+ Yoshiba
- 00:37:11 [jeff_]
- ... What does this mean?
- 00:37:14 [ShinyaTa_]
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- 00:37:25 [jeff_]
- ... If you are creating EPUB 2, you need to move to EPUB 3
- 00:37:32 [jeff_]
- ... accessibility benefits
- 00:37:43 [jeff_]
- ... If you are using EPUB 3, you don't need to change anything
- 00:37:49 [jeff_]
- ... please use EPUB check
- 00:37:55 [jeff_]
- ... use progressive enhancement
- 00:37:57 [kiyoto]
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- 00:38:06 [jeff_]
- ... If you can't use EPUB 3, come talk to us
- 00:38:12 [jeff_]
- ... we want to fix that.
- 00:38:37 [horiuchi_]
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- 00:38:49 [jeff_]
- ... Thank you
- 00:38:52 [Yoshiba_]
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- 00:38:58 [jeff_]
- Luc: Thank you Dave
- 00:39:03 [jeff_]
- ... slides will be available
- 00:39:06 [jeff_]
- ... running late
- 00:39:15 [jeff_]
- ... skip to Romain
- 00:39:19 [jeff_]
- ... hope to be short
- 00:39:39 [jeff_]
- RD: Brief update on EPUB check
- 00:39:42 [kiyoto]
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- 00:39:47 [jeff_]
- ... what's done, what's next
- 00:39:50 [naomi]
- present+ kiyoto
- 00:39:54 [jeff_]
- ... I work for Daisy
- 00:40:11 [jeff_]
- ... mandated to take over development and maintenance of EPUB check, by the BG
- 00:40:40 [jeff_]
- ... we needed to make up for 2 years lost time
- 00:40:58 [jeff_]
- ... dealt with pending issues and bug fixes
- 00:41:10 [jeff_]
- ... most important was implementation of EPUB 3.2.
- 00:41:15 [jeff_]
- ... synchronized release
- 00:41:44 [jeff_]
- ... January to April was testing phase
- 00:41:50 [jeff_]
- ... released in April; ready for spec
- 00:42:05 [jeff_]
- ... A community effort
- 00:42:13 [jeff_]
- ... many comments, feature requests
- 00:42:16 [naomi]
- presentt+ tomikura, ryosuke
- 00:42:18 [jeff_]
- ... discussions in CG
- 00:42:43 [jeff_]
- ... Japanese publishing community noticed a new rule
- 00:42:52 [jeff_]
- ... created errors for Japanese content
- 00:42:59 [jeff_]
- ... pushed issue to CG
- 00:43:14 [jeff_]
- ... made "error" into "warning"
- 00:43:39 [jeff_]
- ... here are main objectives
- 00:43:50 [jeff_]
- ... foundational work to make more maintainable and reliable
- 00:44:14 [Avneesh]
- congratulations Romain for driving EPUBCheck to its current state!
- 00:44:24 [jeff_]
- ... improved system for GH issue tracker
- 00:44:39 [Hoshino]
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- 00:44:41 [yoshi_shueisha]
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- 00:44:48 [jeff_]
- ... revamping test suites (>1000 tests)
- 00:44:53 [jeff_]
- ... more readable
- 00:45:13 [jeff_]
- ... Next: carry on cleaning and refactoring
- 00:45:17 [jeff_]
- ... API interface
- 00:45:40 [jeff_]
- ... simplify for 3rd party tools and workflows
- 00:45:49 [jeff_]
- ... clean up 10 years of work
- 00:46:10 [jeff_]
- ... then add new checks
- 00:46:17 [jeff_]
- ... text and audio
- 00:46:26 [jeff_]
- ... not historically done by EPUB check
- 00:46:41 [jeff_]
- ... public website for project
- 00:46:45 [jeff_]
- ... landing page
- 00:46:50 [jeff_]
- ... download the latest
- 00:47:07 [jeff_]
- ... Thanks
- 00:47:26 [jeff_]
- Luc: Introduce Takami-sam from Kadokawa
- 00:47:29 [motoi]
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- 00:47:40 [jeff_]
- ... I am Shinya Takami
- 00:47:49 [jeff_]
- ... two questions
- 00:48:15 [jeff_]
- ... EPUB 3.2 and EPUB check; situation in Japan
- 00:48:27 [jeff_]
- ... second is future requirements
- 00:48:33 [Rachel]
- scribe+
- 00:48:48 [jeff_]
- scribenick: Rachel
- 00:49:11 [Rachel]
- Shinya: existing epub files had errors due to a TOC violation
- 00:49:32 [romain]
- the EPUBCheck issue mentioned by Takami-san: https://github.com/w3c/epubcheck/issues/1036
- 00:49:39 [Rachel]
- ...we requested a change to the behavior of epubcheck and the publishing groups cooperated
- 00:50:20 [Rachel]
- ...we do need to say that the Japanese epub files are wrong and there are many many wrong epub files in Japan
- 00:50:45 [Yanni]
- This TOC issues happened in Taiwan, too. Thanks for the EPUBCheck community.
- 00:50:55 [Rachel]
- ...in 4.2.2 this issue is now marked as a warning instead of an error
- 00:51:09 [Rachel]
- ...making this good for the Japanese market
- 00:51:33 [Rachel]
- ...the next question was a feature request for the future of epub3
- 00:53:55 [Rachel]
- ...order specificifcations of the nav doc; fallback spec of image elements in OPF (manga contents would be packaged more simply); Attribute spec of "linear=no" in OPF (capability extension for dynamic advertisement)
- 00:54:15 [naomi]
- present+ Hoshino, motoi, Kinpachi, tomikura
- 00:55:59 [Rachel]
- q?
- 00:56:38 [Rachel]
- Luc: slides will be made available
- 00:56:52 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 00:57:03 [Kinpachi]
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- 00:57:06 [Rachel]
- ...thank you to the companies that have donated to epubcheck
- 00:57:12 [Rachel]
- ...this is ongoing development
- 00:57:17 [Rachel]
- ...fixing existing bugs
- 00:57:21 [Rachel]
- ...updating to 3.2
- 00:57:36 [suzukim]
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- 00:57:38 [Rachel]
- ...and making it an easier to use tool for future generations
- 00:58:06 [Rachel]
- ...wear your tshirts with pride!
- 00:59:15 [Rachel]
- ...we will switch now to the work of PBG
- 00:59:26 [Rachel]
- s/PBG/PWG
- 00:59:34 [Rachel]
- ...and future standards
- 00:59:58 [Rachel]
- ...I'd like to introduce Wendy Reid, co-chair of the PWG
- 01:00:05 [Rachel]
- wendyreid: Thank you
- 01:00:18 [Rachel]
- ...today I'll speak about the audiobook specification
- 01:00:22 [Alan]
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- 01:00:35 [Rachel]
- ...this work began 2 years ago
- 01:00:48 [Rachel]
- ...as a part of the conversations around publishing on the web
- 01:01:14 [Rachel]
- ...last year we formed a task force around the use cases about where they differ from ebooks
- 01:01:22 [Alan]
- i/this work began/scribenick: Rachel/
- 01:01:38 [Rachel]
- ...we focused on listening, portability, navigation, accessibility
- 01:02:05 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html Alan
- 01:02:18 [Alan]
- rrsagent, set log public
- 01:02:24 [Rachel]
- ...when we talk about lsitening we talk about it consistently without interuption
- 01:02:56 [Rachel]
- ... potability means downloading, streaming, offline
- 01:03:07 [Rachel]
- ....navigation means knowing where you are
- 01:03:23 [Rachel]
- ...and accessibility means enjoying content no matter ability
- 01:03:28 [hoshino_]
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- 01:03:32 [Alan]
- rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
- 01:03:51 [Rachel]
- ...in the process of developing the spec we looked at 4 new use cases
- 01:04:13 [Rachel]
- ...they are supplemental content, table of contents, synchronized media, and packaging
- 01:04:46 [Rachel]
- ...supplemental content is content outside of the audio recording that creates a more full experience (ie images)
- 01:05:22 [Rachel]
- ...table of contents is rich html which gives people the ability to know where they are
- 01:06:06 [Rachel]
- ...synch media synchronizes audio and text or tex tand rich media for the purpose of accessibility
- 01:06:46 [Rachel]
- ...packaging would allow for simplified exchange for B2B
- 01:07:00 [Rachel]
- ...and user downloads
- 01:07:31 [Rachel]
- ...this summer we're reaching out to more stakeholders to find additional needs and use cases
- 01:08:00 [ryosuke]
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- 01:08:15 [Rachel]
- ...and soon we will be moving to candidate recommendation and looking for implementors
- 01:08:41 [Rachel]
- ...questions?
- 01:08:44 [Rachel]
- q?
- 01:08:47 [laudrain]
- q?
- 01:09:03 [Rachel]
- ...the target date is the summer of 2020
- 01:09:05 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 01:09:24 [Rachel]
- luc: and now Laurent lemeur from EDR Lab
- 01:09:35 [Rachel]
- laurent: Thank you
- 01:10:10 [Rachel]
- ... EDR is a consortium of publishers, accessibility organizations, technical orgs, etc
- 01:10:34 [Rachel]
- ...we are working on many things open source, including the Readium software
- 01:10:38 [Ralph]
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- 01:11:33 [Rachel]
- ...on accessibility, we are working on bringing more accessibility to reading tools
- 01:11:48 [laudrain]
- yes i’ll ask for, thank you!
- 01:12:42 [Rachel]
- ...Readium is totally open source and a native toolkit for developers of reading applications
- 01:13:05 [Rachel]
- ...we want to support ebooks, comic books, manga, and audio books the same way
- 01:13:12 [Rachel]
- ...we want to support more than epubs
- 01:13:22 [Rachel]
- ...pdfs, wpubs, and anything else
- 01:13:38 [Rachel]
- ...we also want to mobile (ios, android)
- 01:13:46 [Rachel]
- ...and on the web
- 01:14:22 [Rachel]
- ...readium has a client and server part
- 01:14:32 [Rachel]
- ...which can be the same system or separate
- 01:14:58 [Rachel]
- ...this is how we can process epub files or web publications
- 01:15:21 [Rachel]
- ...we have dedicated some time to implement audio books on our platform
- 01:15:42 [Rachel]
- ...we can demo it from our platform outside of the presentation time
- 01:15:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html Ralph
- 01:16:04 [Rachel]
- ...we are using the "readium web publication"
- 01:16:13 [Rachel]
- ...our own standard
- 01:17:02 [Rachel]
- ...we think it will be easy to create a W3C candidate recommendation from the readium standard
- 01:17:24 [naomi]
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- 01:17:46 [Rachel]
- ...we would like to port to web publications as soon as next month
- 01:18:00 [Alan]
- Chair: Luc, Daihei
- 01:18:08 [Rachel]
- ... and are seeking a partnership
- 01:18:19 [Rachel]
- ...this would start with mobile/ios
- 01:18:25 [laudrain]
- q?
- 01:18:42 [Rachel]
- ...and then be on desktop and the thorium reader
- 01:19:03 [Alan]
- i/we need a scribe/scribenick: jeff_/
- 01:19:11 [Alan]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 01:19:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html Alan
- 01:19:13 [Rachel]
- ...and then finally be support by readium web (online only)
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- 01:42:06 [romain]
- scribenick: romain
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- 01:42:09 [Alan]
- i/Thanks Jeff/scribenick: jeff_/
- 01:42:18 [Alan]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 01:42:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html Alan
- 01:42:32 [jkamata]
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- 01:42:40 [romain]
- scribenick: romain
- 01:43:06 [romain]
- topic: Accessibility/DAISY Japan
- 01:43:07 [JunGamo]
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- 01:43:07 [naomi]
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- 01:43:27 [naomi_]
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- 01:44:06 [naomi_]
- present+ JunGamo ShinyaTakami, Shu, toshiakikoike
- 01:44:22 [romain]
- hiroshi_kawamura: I'd like to show a presentation of an actual Japanese textbook
- 01:44:39 [naoto]
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- 01:44:42 [romain]
- … then present the situation of ebook accessibility in Japan
- 01:45:02 [romain]
- [demo, in japanese]
- 01:45:11 [Alan]
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- 01:45:21 [romain]
- hiroshi_kawamura: the narration is associated with the text hilighted on the screen
- 01:46:24 [romain]
- … the narration here is normal speed, can be increased x3
- 01:46:47 [romain]
- … or lowered to 80%, e.g. for learners of new languages
- 01:47:15 [romain]
- … it also supports vertical writing
- 01:48:06 [romain]
- … in Japanese-language textbooks, vertical writing (right-to-left) is a standard practice
- 01:48:47 [romain]
- … we can also change the color combinations, for instance for low-vision users or dyslexic sudents
- 01:49:04 [romain]
- … the idea is to adapt to the users' needs
- 01:49:22 [romain]
- … the text font size can be adjusted
- 01:49:38 [romain]
- … and the content reflows
- 01:49:46 [skk]
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- 01:50:27 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 01:50:55 [romain]
- … someone said it's very difficult to narrate maths expressions [cue demo of maths content]
- 01:51:10 [romain]
- … there are both a text description and an audio description
- 01:51:24 [romain]
- … the EPUB Media Overlays allow us to associate human narration to the text
- 01:51:37 [romain]
- … or the text can be read by TTS
- 01:52:21 [jroque]
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- 01:52:23 [romain]
- … this is a very important feature to support scientific content, relying on MathML
- 01:53:30 [romain]
- … about Born Accessible Publishing in Japan
- 01:53:57 [romain]
- … the overal legislation situation: ratification of the CRPD and the Marrakesh Treaty
- 01:54:10 [romain]
- … they are in place in Japan
- 01:55:04 [romain]
- … but what about actual content?
- 01:55:36 [romain]
- … reasonable accomodation: there is always a solution to read, readily available solutions
- 01:56:37 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 01:56:49 [romain]
- … now that we are hearing that EPUB 3.2 is ready, and EPUBCheck is available, and the ISO standard for EPUB Accessibility will soon be in place
- 01:57:08 [horiuchi]
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- 01:58:25 [romain]
- … I would like to point out that ~400 million USD are spent every year for public procurement of text books in Japan
- 01:58:36 [romain]
- … accessibility of textbooks is a basic human right issue
- 01:58:47 [romain]
- … it's a top runner of accessible publishing in Japan
- 01:59:07 [romain]
- … conclusion: there are challenges, but policy development is the key
- 01:59:29 [romain]
- … technical development is no longer a barrier
- 02:00:15 [ryosuke]
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- 02:00:29 [romain]
- … we need a change of attitude (copiright holders & publishers), fixing holes in the copyright law, and standardization of accessible and open affortable protection measures (like LCP)
- 02:00:46 [ivan]
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- 02:01:03 [dauwhe]
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- 02:01:17 [jeff]
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- 02:01:32 [romain]
- … thank you!
- 02:02:35 [Avneesh]
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- 02:02:42 [horiuchi_]
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- 02:02:47 [romain]
- [up next: Avneesh Singh, DAISY Consortium]
- 02:04:09 [naomi]
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- 02:04:12 [naomi]
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- 02:04:24 [romain]
- Avneesh: my presentation is about born accessible publications, what are the global regulations for accessibility, and are born accessible publications a reality?
- 02:04:35 [romain]
- … my presentation is based on information from DAISY members
- 02:04:51 [romain]
- … DAISY members are organizations around the world, committed to accessibility
- 02:04:53 [ryokuroda]
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- 02:05:36 [romain]
- … mainly 2 bodies: UN Convention for People with Disability and Marrakesh treay
- 02:06:01 [romain]
- … in the US, section 508 applies both to web sites and publications
- 02:06:31 [romain]
- … all the agencies must ensure that published content is accessible to people with diabilities
- 02:06:42 [romain]
- s/diabilities/disabilities
- 02:06:52 [romain]
- … applies to publishers, but also to universities
- 02:06:53 [ryosuke_]
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- 02:07:11 [romain]
- … they need to ensure their publications are born accessible, or provide alternative content
- 02:07:53 [romain]
- … in Canada, there is the Accessible Canada Act (2019), and the government allocated 22 million CAD to help organizations and publishers to implement the regulation
- 02:08:50 [romain]
- … in the UK, public sector bodies regulation (2018), say that web sites and mobile applications need to follow the WCAG principle (operable, understandable, perceivable, robust)
- 02:09:10 [romain]
- … in the EU, the groundbreaking Eureopean Accessibility Act is in place (2019)
- 02:09:19 [romain]
- … must be in place in 2022
- 02:09:36 [romain]
- s/must be in place/must be implemented/
- 02:10:15 [jkamata]
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- 02:10:17 [romain]
- … it not only requires publishers to release born accessible content, but the entire chain to provide accessible products (including e.g. reading systems, retailers, etc)
- 02:10:44 [romain]
- … in Australia an inclusive publishing initiative was created
- 02:11:20 [romain]
- … in the developing countries, Brazil has a regulation
- 02:11:41 [romain]
- … if a print-disabled user requires a publication, the publisher must provide an accessible version
- 02:12:12 [romain]
- … in India, People with Disabilities Act (2016), ebooks for everyday use must be following a universal design
- 02:12:48 [romain]
- … specifically about EPUB 3, a community of experts for the government identified EPUB 3 as the recommended format
- 02:13:14 [kiyoto]
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- 02:13:24 [romain]
- … these are the views of the regulations. Are our efforts for Born Accessible giving the expected results?
- 02:13:36 [romain]
- … in the US, born accessible is a reality in higher education
- 02:13:49 [romain]
- … they are in fact competing around the accessibility features
- 02:14:16 [romain]
- … in Italy, the LIA Foundazione is established with the publishing industry, over 24,000 titles are available
- 02:14:45 [romain]
- … in Brazil, born accessible is a reality in K-12, more than 6,000 title are available in Braille
- 02:15:18 [romain]
- … in the UK, it is a reality for simple publications like novels
- 02:15:19 [ivan]
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- 02:15:40 [romain]
- … in India, the government publishers have started providing textbooks in accessible EPUB 3
- 02:16:06 [romain]
- … in Canada, funding is in place for born accessible to become a reality soon
- 02:16:43 [romain]
- … in France, Hachette has taken the iniative for born accessible publishing, following the roadmap of the government
- 02:17:06 [romain]
- … these are countries were it is working
- 02:17:45 [romain]
- … EPUB 3 released in 2012 intialized this movement for Born Accessible publications; good progress over the past 7 years
- 02:17:57 [romain]
- … it was thanks to a collective effort
- 02:18:14 [romain]
- … I'm confident that in the next decade, we'll born accessible publications in many other parts of the World
- 02:18:21 [romain]
- … thank you!
- 02:19:01 [bobbytung]
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- 02:19:27 [romain]
- [up next: Makoto Murata, for JEPA]
- 02:20:27 [romain]
- MURATA_makoto: hi, I'm Makoto from Keio University
- 02:20:44 [romain]
- … going to talk about standardization of EPUB Accessibility
- 02:21:00 [romain]
- … it started in IDPF, then moved to W3C, and now we're trying to standardize it at ISO
- 02:21:38 [romain]
- … the goal is to make it clear if the publication is friendly to visually impaired persones, dyslexic persones, and so forth
- 02:22:23 [romain]
- … if we can properly identify which publications are accessible, readers can choose what they can read
- 02:23:11 [romain]
- … for instance, last year a blind colleague of mind bought ebooks made of rasterized images, without knowing
- 02:23:28 [romain]
- … what is the current status in ISO?
- 02:24:00 [romain]
- … we're working on a Draft International Standard
- 02:24:18 [romain]
- … we just finished the comment disposition
- 02:24:28 [romain]
- … we just need one more ballot
- 02:24:39 [romain]
- … the goal is to have an International Standard
- 02:25:05 [romain]
- … a Draft International Standard is somewhat in between CR and PR for W3C
- 02:25:19 [laudrain]
- q?
- 02:26:00 [romain]
- … the ballot requires 6 months, then 2 months of comments. We're hopeful we'll have an International Standards in approx 9 months.
- 02:26:26 [romain]
- … we received a number of interesting comments from Japanese publishers and content providers
- 02:26:45 [romain]
- … one such comment was about external vs. internal metadata
- 02:27:03 [romain]
- s/internal/embedded/
- 02:27:46 [romain]
- … some prefer embedded metadata as it cannot be detached from the publication, some say that external metadata is better as it is easier to maintain
- 02:28:26 [romain]
- Murai: ???
- 02:28:38 [romain]
- MURATA_makoto: we think both appraoches are feasible
- 02:28:52 [romain]
- … we're investigating this in the EPUB 3 CG
- 02:29:39 [romain]
- … Kawamura-san presented a diagram with higlighted text and synchronized audio
- 02:29:52 [romain]
- … this is a difficult use case, and shows limitations of SVG and CSS
- 02:30:33 [romain]
- … Prof ?? required an extension of SVG, we can also count on Florian's input
- 02:30:39 [romain]
- … we're working on solutions
- 02:30:40 [sh_]
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- 02:31:11 [romain]
- … thank you!
- 02:31:33 [laudrain]
- q?
- 02:31:42 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 02:31:55 [JunGamo]
- s/???/Why not use both?
- 02:34:34 [romain]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 02:34:34 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html romain
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- 02:40:47 [laurent]
- yoshii: publishing is not just books; magazine ... are in scope, we can expand content
- 02:41:53 [laurent]
- ...in the world of publishers, we need to take attention on who created content and for whom.
- 02:42:18 [laurent]
- ...in the future we'd like to demonstrate what web publishing can do
- 02:43:52 [laurent]
- ...important to have know who publishes info because it's ok in this case to publish stories about Loch Ness etc.
- 02:44:53 [laurent]
- ...such info carried by NYT would be a problem.
- 02:45:32 [laurent]
- ...there are maybe lots of techno that can be adapted for our needs. This is why we participate to the W3C.
- 02:48:08 [laurent]
- ...important for us to maintain what we have built as publishers, also important to look at new markets and technologies. Provide a service that can bring joy to users, and be a trusted publisher. For that superb technology needed.
- 02:48:40 [laurent]
- ...I encourage publishers to be more interested in new technologies. The print media industry should be more connected to other domains to transform ou industry
- 02:48:48 [laurent]
- s/ou/our
- 02:50:09 [laurent]
- ...i the past the print publishing industry made a product, no way to transform is later. Changes are already happening in other medias (news, magazines), it it the trend of the industry.
- 02:50:15 [jkamata]
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- 02:50:19 [laurent]
- this perspective is important.
- 02:50:33 [laurent]
- ...thanks.
- 02:50:58 [horiuchi]
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- 02:51:12 [laurent]
- next presenter, Shin Mizushima, Kadokawa
- 02:51:45 [laurent]
- shin: I'm the responsible for product management division. raw material, printing, ebook also.
- 02:52:22 [laurent]
- ...next generation is there via paper + digital content.
- 02:53:00 [laurent]
- ...kadokawa has catched up with trends, 30 to 40.000 books transforms to ebook form.
- 02:53:06 [Hoshino]
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- 02:53:21 [laurent]
- ...4.000 new books per year, ebook put immediately on the market also.
- 02:53:44 [laurent]
- ...we way package many times, packages are important.
- 02:54:09 [laurent]
- ...the user chooses btw paper or ebook; he chooses the package.
- 02:54:44 [jyoshii]
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- 02:54:55 [laurent]
- ...before users has to choose btw Vinyl and CD (2 packages), now digital distribution (new package)
- 02:54:59 [jyoshii]
- present+
- 02:55:44 [laurent]
- ...many input received for speakers already.
- 02:56:14 [laurent]
- ...there are some limitations; some contents can only be expressed in ebook, other in paper only.
- 02:56:48 [laurent]
- ...a publishing company must find new values and present that to the readership.
- 02:57:01 [laurent]
- ...the business has to be sustained for quite a long time.
- 02:57:17 [laurent]
- ...therefore we have to balance production cost and selling price.
- 02:57:17 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 02:57:35 [naomi_]
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- 02:58:07 [laurent]
- ...most present people come from IT sector. The cost structure is specific in the publishing sector.
- 02:58:43 [naomi]
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- 02:59:01 [laurent]
- ...viable business -> the product must be offered at a reasonable price -> reduce cost of reading material -> build huge inventory.
- 02:59:58 [laurent]
- ...if we're selling physical, printing & transport is a cost. Not true in digital form.
- 03:00:33 [laurent]
- ...we first produce the paper book then transform to ebook -> lots of work.
- 03:01:18 [laurent]
- ...to convert books to disability friendly ebooks is difficult.
- 03:01:31 [laurent]
- ...it's an issue of processing technology.
- 03:01:57 [jeff_]
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- 03:02:49 [laurent]
- ...we need to progress on the processing technology.
- 03:03:46 [laurent]
- ...as a publisher we must continue to make efforts for better methods and techno. We already sell book and ebook at the same time.
- 03:05:54 [laurent]
- ...both forms have advantages. ebooks -> many in the same device; but without battery, no reading. publishers will continue producing both.
- 03:06:14 [laurent]
- ...but the readership will not increase.
- 03:06:18 [laudrain]
- q?
- 03:06:49 [laurent]
- ...I'm an exception: when I buy a book I buy it in 2 forms, paper and digital.
- 03:06:52 [laurent]
- ...thanks.
- 03:09:51 [laurent]
- dahei: next presenter is Tatsuya Igarashi, from Sony Corp, chair of w3c media entertainment IG
- 03:10:29 [laurent]
- igarashi: there are similarities btw digital publishing and media entertainment.
- 03:11:35 [laudrain_]
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- 03:11:41 [laurent]
- ...delivery; both are networked media, thanks to the raise of internet
- 03:12:50 [laurent]
- ...more print media is going online; we see a shift from download to streaming.
- 03:13:21 [naomi]
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- 03:13:30 [laurent]
- ...in media entertainment at least; it may hit publishing also.
- 03:13:52 [horiuchi]
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- 03:14:07 [laurent]
- ...in the past there was a need for dedicated devices for media and publications, now shift to mobile devices.
- 03:15:17 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 03:15:22 [horiuchi_]
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- 03:15:27 [laurent]
- ...we also see a move from mono-media (text, audio or video) to rich media (interactive, immersive). Even with a bluray.
- 03:16:24 [laurent]
- ...w3c is now working on new techno, expression of media is evolving, this will change the way entertainment is delivered.
- 03:16:56 [laurent]
- ...let's study common aspects of business
- 03:18:29 [laurent]
- ...open standard will make possible to deliver content to different users, they free us from older industry standards.
- 03:18:44 [laurent]
- s/standard/standards
- 03:19:26 [laurent]
- ...more content is enjoyed through browsers, thanks to w3c technologies.
- 03:19:42 [dauwhe]
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- 03:20:51 [laurent]
- ...many IT giants are starting services similar to publishers' services.
- 03:21:21 [laurent]
- ...thanks to their dominance of advanced technologies
- 03:22:08 [laurent]
- ...the limited number of giants, with their delivery platforms, makes so that publishers must build on techno also.
- 03:22:22 [laurent]
- Ex. Disney goes directly to consumers, with new platforms.
- 03:22:29 [laurent]
- ...thanks
- 03:22:56 [laurent]
- luc: last speaker is Florian Rivoal
- 03:24:15 [naomi]
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- 03:24:16 [laurent]
- dahei: Florian is involved in the CSS process, also consultant for japanese publishers.
- 03:27:31 [laurent]
- ...florian: EPUB 3.2 and EPUBCheck are great achievement, now what?
- 03:28:26 [laurent]
- ...epub concentrates on the document. When the spec say "the document must be like" we need a document validator.
- 03:28:49 [laurent]
- ...on the web is was the same not long ago. the html spec was like epub3 -> how the doc must be.
- 03:29:14 [laudrain]
- s/html spec/html4 spec/
- 03:29:41 [jkamata]
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- 03:29:54 [laurent]
- ...the web has changed, now the spec style is focusing on the software.
- 03:30:23 [laurent]
- ...in html5 we don't use a document validator, we test the browser.
- 03:31:25 [horiuchi]
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- 03:31:25 [laurent]
- ...when we updated EPUBCheck we discovered that some content previously sold was in error.
- 03:31:53 [laurent]
- ...if we focus on the software, we can know if the user can read the content, which is more useful.
- 03:32:15 [laurent]
- ...s/was/were
- 03:33:24 [laurent]
- ...if we want to use epub for the long term, we'll have better interop if we focus on what the software needs to do rather than what the content needs to be.
- 03:33:59 [laurent]
- ...after EPUB (not after EPUB 3.2)?
- 03:34:17 [naomi]
- あり
- 03:34:23 [naomi]
- s/あり/ /
- 03:34:24 [laurent]
- ...epub is separate from the web because the browser does not read it natively.
- 03:35:00 [laurent]
- ...the web is the convergent point of many industries
- 03:35:58 [laurent]
- ...but the web must learn from publishing, it is not good enough for presenting books and magazines.
- 03:36:43 [laurent]
- ...when we work on web publications, we don't improve the web.
- 03:37:07 [ShinyaTakami]
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- 03:37:29 [laurent]
- ...therefore we don't really need a Publishing WG, but we need publishing people in all sorts of groups.
- 03:39:18 [laurent]
- ...CSS writing mode was pushed by the publishing industry. Most web (browser) engineers are from the west but with common work with experts from the east we can achieve that.
- 03:39:51 [horiuchi]
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- 03:40:52 [laudrain]
- q?
- 03:41:57 [laurent]
- ...by participating to groups about typography, packaging, media, accessibility we'll make the web better.
- 03:42:00 [laurent]
- ...thanks
- 03:44:05 [wendyreid]
- Present+
- 03:44:06 [horiuchi_]
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- 03:44:34 [laurent]
- igarashi: do you think browsers may replace reading systems?
- 03:44:48 [wendyreid]
- q+
- 03:45:11 [laurent]
- florian: DVD player became VoD applications, and now VoD services are in browsers.
- 03:45:19 [JunGamo]
- s/igarashi/JunMurai/
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- 03:47:04 [laurent]
- makoto: in the past I was tempted to create a variation of CSS for intl, experts of the W3C said "we'll deal with it". It was a success.
- 03:47:29 [laudrain]
- ack wendyreid
- 03:47:31 [laudrain]
- q?
- 03:48:17 [laurent]
- wendy: we should be more involved in CSS etc. However I also think there is a place for the Publishing WG.
- 03:48:46 [laurent]
- ...we are not that far away from the browsers, we can move a little bit closer.
- 03:49:59 [naoto]
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- 03:50:17 [laurent]
- florian: my take is that the publishing people must be careful discussing with other folks.
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- RRSAgent: draft minutes
- 06:02:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html dauwhe
- 06:02:51 [dauwhe]
- rrsagent, make logs public
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- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 07:30:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html laurent
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- rrsagent, bye
- 21:55:54 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items