IRC log of pbg on 2019-09-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-irc
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00:00:05 [dauwhe]
Meeting: Publishing Business Group at TPAC
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present+
00:00:48 [dauwhe]
Zakim, who is here?
00:00:48 [Zakim]
Present: dauwhe
00:00:49 [George]
present+
00:00:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, toshiakikoike, Rachel, George, gpellegrino, ivan, dauwhe, mateus, bigbluehat
00:00:57 [gpellegrino]
present+
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present+
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present+
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present+
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present+
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00:06:20 [dauwhe]
we need a scribe
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present+
00:09:25 [George]
Remote people can hear well.
00:09:41 [dauwhe]
we still need a scribe
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present+
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present+
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00:11:25 [MURATA]
Hi!
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00:12:43 [jeff_]
scribenick: jeff
00:12:57 [laudrain]
Thanks Jeff
00:13:41 [laudrain]
we need scribing particularly on questions/answers after presentations
00:13:47 [jeff_]
Daihei: Coffee break is very short because we have so much material to cover.
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00:14:15 [jeff_]
... introducing Murai-sensei
00:14:16 [Avneesh]
present+
00:14:19 [jeff_]
JM: Good morning everyone
00:14:21 [laurent]
present+
00:14:24 [Alan]
present+
00:14:29 [jeff_]
... representing W3C Keio
00:14:42 [jeff_]
... also Host of TPAC meeting in Japan
00:14:47 [jeff_]
... welcome to Fukuoka
00:14:51 [jeff_]
... nice venue
00:15:07 [jeff_]
... G20 financial ministers also met here
00:15:18 [jeff_]
... their optical fiber is still here
00:15:38 [jeff_]
... talk about publishing
00:15:50 [jeff_]
... I am known as an Internet engineer
00:16:04 [jeff_]
... but also a UNIX engineer (originally) working on internationalization
00:16:12 [jeff_]
... much POSIX work is my work
00:16:19 [dauwhe]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun_Murai
00:16:40 [jeff_]
... Japan cares about text and language
00:16:52 [jeff_]
... most of computer science design started in English
00:17:08 [jeff_]
... I accepted proposals in many languages
00:17:17 [jeff_]
... POSIX (UNIX OS) and Internet
00:17:28 [jeff_]
... RFC 822 said English ASCII only
00:17:41 [jeff_]
... but I said to accommodate other lanugages
00:18:23 [jeff_]
... History started by proposing change in standard for internationalization
00:18:31 [jeff_]
... accepting multiple languages
00:18:38 [jeff_]
... implementing diversity of languages
00:18:41 [jeff_]
... LONG history
00:18:51 [jeff_]
... Japan uses different languages and culture
00:19:09 [jeff_]
... we contribute to internationalization, accessibility, and diversity
00:19:48 [jeff_]
... in 94-96 W3C worked on Olympic/Paralympic
00:20:00 [jeff_]
... Olympic website
00:20:05 [jeff_]
... started Web Accessibility
00:20:17 [jeff_]
... Tokyo Olympics in 2020
00:20:33 [jeff_]
... Florian and Elika will explain to the AC this afternoon
00:20:41 [jeff_]
... Vertical writing progress
00:20:47 [jeff_]
... demonstrates diversity
00:20:53 [jeff_]
... not only for Japan
00:21:54 [jeff_]
Florian: CSS Writing Modes progress
00:22:01 [jeff_]
... from the CSS WG
00:22:14 [jeff_]
... reaching the level of W3C Proposed Recommendation
00:22:23 [jeff_]
... on its way to the W3C Director
00:22:25 [jeff_]
... will get AC review
00:22:55 [jeff_]
... this powers Vertical text in Japanese
00:23:04 [jeff_]
... many others did the work
00:23:13 [jeff_]
... bugs have been fixed
00:23:32 [jeff_]
... after AC review it will be a formal W3C Recommendation
00:23:37 [jeff_]
... complete at the spec level
00:23:43 [jeff_]
... Japan has been major driver
00:23:46 [jeff_]
... more work to do
00:23:53 [jeff_]
... thanks to the broad Japan team
00:24:10 [jeff_]
JM: I appreciate efforts
00:24:16 [jeff_]
... and your (Florian) efforts)
00:24:21 [jeff_]
... also in publishing
00:24:31 [jeff_]
... important
00:24:43 [jeff_]
... users on internet is almost everyone
00:24:50 [jeff_]
... big change in 30 years
00:24:57 [jeff_]
... our contribution goes to everyone
00:25:02 [jeff_]
... publishing work for everyone
00:25:10 [jeff_]
... really appreciate your efforts
00:25:13 [jeff_]
... Thank you
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00:25:25 [jeff_]
... enjoy Fukuoka
00:25:34 [naomi]
present+
00:26:31 [jeff_]
DS: Good work in CSS
00:26:37 [jeff_]
... thanks to Jun Murai
00:26:42 [jeff_]
... thanks to APA for their support
00:26:51 [jeff_]
... also Kodansha, Shueisha
00:26:59 [jeff_]
Luc: Thanks to APA
00:27:13 [jeff_]
... I hand it to Dave Cramer (Hachette) for the EPUB update
00:27:18 [bobbytung]
s/APA/APL
00:27:29 [jeff_]
DC: I co-chair EPUB CG with Rachel Comerford
00:27:38 [jeff_]
... working on EPUB since 2001
00:27:51 [jeff_]
... in 2017 IDPF merged into W3C, starting the publishing work in W3C
00:27:55 [jeff_]
... 2 big problems
00:28:09 [jeff_]
... noone was using EPUB 3.1
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... no support from EPUBCheck
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00:28:35 [jeff_]
... The CG wants to make things better
00:28:49 [jeff_]
... so we looked at these problems
00:28:56 [jeff_]
... preserve EPUB 3 content
00:29:45 [jeff_]
... Makoto-san and Garth Convoy (Google) recommended that we take 3.1, but make it backwards compatible with 3.01 - widely used in the world
00:29:53 [Ralph_]
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00:30:04 [jeff_]
... so Matt Garish and I rewrote the spec
00:30:09 [jeff_]
... what to keep from 3.1
00:30:18 [jeff_]
... what to roll back for compatibility
00:30:23 [jeff_]
... bug fix
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00:30:51 [jeff_]
... The CG was open to all interested parties
00:30:55 [jeff_]
... anyone in the world
00:30:59 [jeff_]
... not only members
00:31:08 [jeff_]
... 61 people participated
00:31:15 [jeff_]
... a community effort
00:31:43 [jeff_]
... In May we published EPUB 3.2 as a W3C CG spec
00:31:52 [jeff_]
... approved by Publishing BG
00:32:01 [jeff_]
... EPUB check needed to support EPUB 3.2
00:32:10 [jeff_]
... formal validation required by retailers
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00:33:01 [jeff_]
... EPUBcheck had been dormant - relied on volunteers
00:33:11 [jeff_]
... but we ran out of volunteers
00:33:38 [jeff_]
... Rachel, Luc, on behalf of W3C wrote an RFP to fund the work
00:33:42 [jeff_]
... Much money raised
00:33:52 [naoto]
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... Daisy funded to actually revise EPUBcheck
00:34:09 [jeff_]
... released in April; same time we finished EPUB 3.2
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00:34:12 [naomi]
present+ nakao
00:34:29 [naomi]
present
00:34:36 [jeff_]
... Avneesh here from Daisy
00:34:36 [naomi]
s/present/ /
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00:34:46 [skk]
present+
00:34:48 [naomi]
present+ naoto
00:34:48 [jeff_]
... great accomplishment of whole community
00:35:06 [jeff_]
... work together to find problems, do the work, get feedback, achieve the results
00:35:29 [jeff_]
... What is different about EPUB 3.2?
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00:35:47 [jeff_]
... strict backward compatibility (with EPUB 3.0.1)
00:35:58 [jeff_]
... but core web platform (e.g. CSS) is evolving
00:36:13 [jeff_]
... instead of writing profiles, we are pointing to HTML spec, CSS snapshot
00:36:20 [jeff_]
... widely available components
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00:36:35 [jeff_]
... so EPUB has evolved with the underlying technologies
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00:37:01 [jeff_]
... Web Fonts external to package, WOFF 2.0
00:37:07 [naomi]
present+ Yoshiba
00:37:11 [jeff_]
... What does this mean?
00:37:14 [ShinyaTa_]
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00:37:25 [jeff_]
... If you are creating EPUB 2, you need to move to EPUB 3
00:37:32 [jeff_]
... accessibility benefits
00:37:43 [jeff_]
... If you are using EPUB 3, you don't need to change anything
00:37:49 [jeff_]
... please use EPUB check
00:37:55 [jeff_]
... use progressive enhancement
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00:38:06 [jeff_]
... If you can't use EPUB 3, come talk to us
00:38:12 [jeff_]
... we want to fix that.
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00:38:49 [jeff_]
... Thank you
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00:38:58 [jeff_]
Luc: Thank you Dave
00:39:03 [jeff_]
... slides will be available
00:39:06 [jeff_]
... running late
00:39:15 [jeff_]
... skip to Romain
00:39:19 [jeff_]
... hope to be short
00:39:39 [jeff_]
RD: Brief update on EPUB check
00:39:42 [kiyoto]
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00:39:47 [jeff_]
... what's done, what's next
00:39:50 [naomi]
present+ kiyoto
00:39:54 [jeff_]
... I work for Daisy
00:40:11 [jeff_]
... mandated to take over development and maintenance of EPUB check, by the BG
00:40:40 [jeff_]
... we needed to make up for 2 years lost time
00:40:58 [jeff_]
... dealt with pending issues and bug fixes
00:41:10 [jeff_]
... most important was implementation of EPUB 3.2.
00:41:15 [jeff_]
... synchronized release
00:41:44 [jeff_]
... January to April was testing phase
00:41:50 [jeff_]
... released in April; ready for spec
00:42:05 [jeff_]
... A community effort
00:42:13 [jeff_]
... many comments, feature requests
00:42:16 [naomi]
presentt+ tomikura, ryosuke
00:42:18 [jeff_]
... discussions in CG
00:42:43 [jeff_]
... Japanese publishing community noticed a new rule
00:42:52 [jeff_]
... created errors for Japanese content
00:42:59 [jeff_]
... pushed issue to CG
00:43:14 [jeff_]
... made "error" into "warning"
00:43:39 [jeff_]
... here are main objectives
00:43:50 [jeff_]
... foundational work to make more maintainable and reliable
00:44:14 [Avneesh]
congratulations Romain for driving EPUBCheck to its current state!
00:44:24 [jeff_]
... improved system for GH issue tracker
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00:44:48 [jeff_]
... revamping test suites (>1000 tests)
00:44:53 [jeff_]
... more readable
00:45:13 [jeff_]
... Next: carry on cleaning and refactoring
00:45:17 [jeff_]
... API interface
00:45:40 [jeff_]
... simplify for 3rd party tools and workflows
00:45:49 [jeff_]
... clean up 10 years of work
00:46:10 [jeff_]
... then add new checks
00:46:17 [jeff_]
... text and audio
00:46:26 [jeff_]
... not historically done by EPUB check
00:46:41 [jeff_]
... public website for project
00:46:45 [jeff_]
... landing page
00:46:50 [jeff_]
... download the latest
00:47:07 [jeff_]
... Thanks
00:47:26 [jeff_]
Luc: Introduce Takami-sam from Kadokawa
00:47:29 [motoi]
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00:47:40 [jeff_]
... I am Shinya Takami
00:47:49 [jeff_]
... two questions
00:48:15 [jeff_]
... EPUB 3.2 and EPUB check; situation in Japan
00:48:27 [jeff_]
... second is future requirements
00:48:33 [Rachel]
scribe+
00:48:48 [jeff_]
scribenick: Rachel
00:49:11 [Rachel]
Shinya: existing epub files had errors due to a TOC violation
00:49:32 [romain]
the EPUBCheck issue mentioned by Takami-san: https://github.com/w3c/epubcheck/issues/1036
00:49:39 [Rachel]
...we requested a change to the behavior of epubcheck and the publishing groups cooperated
00:50:20 [Rachel]
...we do need to say that the Japanese epub files are wrong and there are many many wrong epub files in Japan
00:50:45 [Yanni]
This TOC issues happened in Taiwan, too. Thanks for the EPUBCheck community.
00:50:55 [Rachel]
...in 4.2.2 this issue is now marked as a warning instead of an error
00:51:09 [Rachel]
...making this good for the Japanese market
00:51:33 [Rachel]
...the next question was a feature request for the future of epub3
00:53:55 [Rachel]
...order specificifcations of the nav doc; fallback spec of image elements in OPF (manga contents would be packaged more simply); Attribute spec of "linear=no" in OPF (capability extension for dynamic advertisement)
00:54:15 [naomi]
present+ Hoshino, motoi, Kinpachi, tomikura
00:55:59 [Rachel]
q?
00:56:38 [Rachel]
Luc: slides will be made available
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00:57:06 [Rachel]
...thank you to the companies that have donated to epubcheck
00:57:12 [Rachel]
...this is ongoing development
00:57:17 [Rachel]
...fixing existing bugs
00:57:21 [Rachel]
...updating to 3.2
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00:57:38 [Rachel]
...and making it an easier to use tool for future generations
00:58:06 [Rachel]
...wear your tshirts with pride!
00:59:15 [Rachel]
...we will switch now to the work of PBG
00:59:26 [Rachel]
s/PBG/PWG
00:59:34 [Rachel]
...and future standards
00:59:58 [Rachel]
...I'd like to introduce Wendy Reid, co-chair of the PWG
01:00:05 [Rachel]
wendyreid: Thank you
01:00:18 [Rachel]
...today I'll speak about the audiobook specification
01:00:22 [Alan]
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01:00:35 [Rachel]
...this work began 2 years ago
01:00:48 [Rachel]
...as a part of the conversations around publishing on the web
01:01:14 [Rachel]
...last year we formed a task force around the use cases about where they differ from ebooks
01:01:22 [Alan]
i/this work began/scribenick: Rachel/
01:01:38 [Rachel]
...we focused on listening, portability, navigation, accessibility
01:02:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html Alan
01:02:18 [Alan]
rrsagent, set log public
01:02:24 [Rachel]
...when we talk about lsitening we talk about it consistently without interuption
01:02:56 [Rachel]
... potability means downloading, streaming, offline
01:03:07 [Rachel]
....navigation means knowing where you are
01:03:23 [Rachel]
...and accessibility means enjoying content no matter ability
01:03:28 [hoshino_]
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01:03:32 [Alan]
rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
01:03:51 [Rachel]
...in the process of developing the spec we looked at 4 new use cases
01:04:13 [Rachel]
...they are supplemental content, table of contents, synchronized media, and packaging
01:04:46 [Rachel]
...supplemental content is content outside of the audio recording that creates a more full experience (ie images)
01:05:22 [Rachel]
...table of contents is rich html which gives people the ability to know where they are
01:06:06 [Rachel]
...synch media synchronizes audio and text or tex tand rich media for the purpose of accessibility
01:06:46 [Rachel]
...packaging would allow for simplified exchange for B2B
01:07:00 [Rachel]
...and user downloads
01:07:31 [Rachel]
...this summer we're reaching out to more stakeholders to find additional needs and use cases
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01:08:15 [Rachel]
...and soon we will be moving to candidate recommendation and looking for implementors
01:08:41 [Rachel]
...questions?
01:08:44 [Rachel]
q?
01:08:47 [laudrain]
q?
01:09:03 [Rachel]
...the target date is the summer of 2020
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01:09:24 [Rachel]
luc: and now Laurent lemeur from EDR Lab
01:09:35 [Rachel]
laurent: Thank you
01:10:10 [Rachel]
... EDR is a consortium of publishers, accessibility organizations, technical orgs, etc
01:10:34 [Rachel]
...we are working on many things open source, including the Readium software
01:10:38 [Ralph]
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01:11:33 [Rachel]
...on accessibility, we are working on bringing more accessibility to reading tools
01:11:48 [laudrain]
yes i’ll ask for, thank you!
01:12:42 [Rachel]
...Readium is totally open source and a native toolkit for developers of reading applications
01:13:05 [Rachel]
...we want to support ebooks, comic books, manga, and audio books the same way
01:13:12 [Rachel]
...we want to support more than epubs
01:13:22 [Rachel]
...pdfs, wpubs, and anything else
01:13:38 [Rachel]
...we also want to mobile (ios, android)
01:13:46 [Rachel]
...and on the web
01:14:22 [Rachel]
...readium has a client and server part
01:14:32 [Rachel]
...which can be the same system or separate
01:14:58 [Rachel]
...this is how we can process epub files or web publications
01:15:21 [Rachel]
...we have dedicated some time to implement audio books on our platform
01:15:42 [Rachel]
...we can demo it from our platform outside of the presentation time
01:15:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html Ralph
01:16:04 [Rachel]
...we are using the "readium web publication"
01:16:13 [Rachel]
...our own standard
01:17:02 [Rachel]
...we think it will be easy to create a W3C candidate recommendation from the readium standard
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01:17:46 [Rachel]
...we would like to port to web publications as soon as next month
01:18:00 [Alan]
Chair: Luc, Daihei
01:18:08 [Rachel]
... and are seeking a partnership
01:18:19 [Rachel]
...this would start with mobile/ios
01:18:25 [laudrain]
q?
01:18:42 [Rachel]
...and then be on desktop and the thorium reader
01:19:03 [Alan]
i/we need a scribe/scribenick: jeff_/
01:19:11 [Alan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:19:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html Alan
01:19:13 [Rachel]
...and then finally be support by readium web (online only)
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01:42:06 [romain]
scribenick: romain
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01:42:09 [Alan]
i/Thanks Jeff/scribenick: jeff_/
01:42:18 [Alan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
01:42:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html Alan
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01:42:40 [romain]
scribenick: romain
01:43:06 [romain]
topic: Accessibility/DAISY Japan
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01:44:06 [naomi_]
present+ JunGamo ShinyaTakami, Shu, toshiakikoike
01:44:22 [romain]
hiroshi_kawamura: I'd like to show a presentation of an actual Japanese textbook
01:44:39 [naoto]
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01:44:42 [romain]
… then present the situation of ebook accessibility in Japan
01:45:02 [romain]
[demo, in japanese]
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01:45:21 [romain]
hiroshi_kawamura: the narration is associated with the text hilighted on the screen
01:46:24 [romain]
… the narration here is normal speed, can be increased x3
01:46:47 [romain]
… or lowered to 80%, e.g. for learners of new languages
01:47:15 [romain]
… it also supports vertical writing
01:48:06 [romain]
… in Japanese-language textbooks, vertical writing (right-to-left) is a standard practice
01:48:47 [romain]
… we can also change the color combinations, for instance for low-vision users or dyslexic sudents
01:49:04 [romain]
… the idea is to adapt to the users' needs
01:49:22 [romain]
… the text font size can be adjusted
01:49:38 [romain]
… and the content reflows
01:49:46 [skk]
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01:50:27 [ShinyaTakami]
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01:50:55 [romain]
… someone said it's very difficult to narrate maths expressions [cue demo of maths content]
01:51:10 [romain]
… there are both a text description and an audio description
01:51:24 [romain]
… the EPUB Media Overlays allow us to associate human narration to the text
01:51:37 [romain]
… or the text can be read by TTS
01:52:21 [jroque]
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01:52:23 [romain]
… this is a very important feature to support scientific content, relying on MathML
01:53:30 [romain]
… about Born Accessible Publishing in Japan
01:53:57 [romain]
… the overal legislation situation: ratification of the CRPD and the Marrakesh Treaty
01:54:10 [romain]
… they are in place in Japan
01:55:04 [romain]
… but what about actual content?
01:55:36 [romain]
… reasonable accomodation: there is always a solution to read, readily available solutions
01:56:37 [ShinyaTakami]
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01:56:49 [romain]
… now that we are hearing that EPUB 3.2 is ready, and EPUBCheck is available, and the ISO standard for EPUB Accessibility will soon be in place
01:57:08 [horiuchi]
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01:58:25 [romain]
… I would like to point out that ~400 million USD are spent every year for public procurement of text books in Japan
01:58:36 [romain]
… accessibility of textbooks is a basic human right issue
01:58:47 [romain]
… it's a top runner of accessible publishing in Japan
01:59:07 [romain]
… conclusion: there are challenges, but policy development is the key
01:59:29 [romain]
… technical development is no longer a barrier
02:00:15 [ryosuke]
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02:00:29 [romain]
… we need a change of attitude (copiright holders & publishers), fixing holes in the copyright law, and standardization of accessible and open affortable protection measures (like LCP)
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02:01:32 [romain]
… thank you!
02:02:35 [Avneesh]
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02:02:47 [romain]
[up next: Avneesh Singh, DAISY Consortium]
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02:04:24 [romain]
Avneesh: my presentation is about born accessible publications, what are the global regulations for accessibility, and are born accessible publications a reality?
02:04:35 [romain]
… my presentation is based on information from DAISY members
02:04:51 [romain]
… DAISY members are organizations around the world, committed to accessibility
02:04:53 [ryokuroda]
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02:05:36 [romain]
… mainly 2 bodies: UN Convention for People with Disability and Marrakesh treay
02:06:01 [romain]
… in the US, section 508 applies both to web sites and publications
02:06:31 [romain]
… all the agencies must ensure that published content is accessible to people with diabilities
02:06:42 [romain]
s/diabilities/disabilities
02:06:52 [romain]
… applies to publishers, but also to universities
02:06:53 [ryosuke_]
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02:07:11 [romain]
… they need to ensure their publications are born accessible, or provide alternative content
02:07:53 [romain]
… in Canada, there is the Accessible Canada Act (2019), and the government allocated 22 million CAD to help organizations and publishers to implement the regulation
02:08:50 [romain]
… in the UK, public sector bodies regulation (2018), say that web sites and mobile applications need to follow the WCAG principle (operable, understandable, perceivable, robust)
02:09:10 [romain]
… in the EU, the groundbreaking Eureopean Accessibility Act is in place (2019)
02:09:19 [romain]
… must be in place in 2022
02:09:36 [romain]
s/must be in place/must be implemented/
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02:10:17 [romain]
… it not only requires publishers to release born accessible content, but the entire chain to provide accessible products (including e.g. reading systems, retailers, etc)
02:10:44 [romain]
… in Australia an inclusive publishing initiative was created
02:11:20 [romain]
… in the developing countries, Brazil has a regulation
02:11:41 [romain]
… if a print-disabled user requires a publication, the publisher must provide an accessible version
02:12:12 [romain]
… in India, People with Disabilities Act (2016), ebooks for everyday use must be following a universal design
02:12:48 [romain]
… specifically about EPUB 3, a community of experts for the government identified EPUB 3 as the recommended format
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02:13:24 [romain]
… these are the views of the regulations. Are our efforts for Born Accessible giving the expected results?
02:13:36 [romain]
… in the US, born accessible is a reality in higher education
02:13:49 [romain]
… they are in fact competing around the accessibility features
02:14:16 [romain]
… in Italy, the LIA Foundazione is established with the publishing industry, over 24,000 titles are available
02:14:45 [romain]
… in Brazil, born accessible is a reality in K-12, more than 6,000 title are available in Braille
02:15:18 [romain]
… in the UK, it is a reality for simple publications like novels
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02:15:40 [romain]
… in India, the government publishers have started providing textbooks in accessible EPUB 3
02:16:06 [romain]
… in Canada, funding is in place for born accessible to become a reality soon
02:16:43 [romain]
… in France, Hachette has taken the iniative for born accessible publishing, following the roadmap of the government
02:17:06 [romain]
… these are countries were it is working
02:17:45 [romain]
… EPUB 3 released in 2012 intialized this movement for Born Accessible publications; good progress over the past 7 years
02:17:57 [romain]
… it was thanks to a collective effort
02:18:14 [romain]
… I'm confident that in the next decade, we'll born accessible publications in many other parts of the World
02:18:21 [romain]
… thank you!
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02:19:27 [romain]
[up next: Makoto Murata, for JEPA]
02:20:27 [romain]
MURATA_makoto: hi, I'm Makoto from Keio University
02:20:44 [romain]
… going to talk about standardization of EPUB Accessibility
02:21:00 [romain]
… it started in IDPF, then moved to W3C, and now we're trying to standardize it at ISO
02:21:38 [romain]
… the goal is to make it clear if the publication is friendly to visually impaired persones, dyslexic persones, and so forth
02:22:23 [romain]
… if we can properly identify which publications are accessible, readers can choose what they can read
02:23:11 [romain]
… for instance, last year a blind colleague of mind bought ebooks made of rasterized images, without knowing
02:23:28 [romain]
… what is the current status in ISO?
02:24:00 [romain]
… we're working on a Draft International Standard
02:24:18 [romain]
… we just finished the comment disposition
02:24:28 [romain]
… we just need one more ballot
02:24:39 [romain]
… the goal is to have an International Standard
02:25:05 [romain]
… a Draft International Standard is somewhat in between CR and PR for W3C
02:25:19 [laudrain]
q?
02:26:00 [romain]
… the ballot requires 6 months, then 2 months of comments. We're hopeful we'll have an International Standards in approx 9 months.
02:26:26 [romain]
… we received a number of interesting comments from Japanese publishers and content providers
02:26:45 [romain]
… one such comment was about external vs. internal metadata
02:27:03 [romain]
s/internal/embedded/
02:27:46 [romain]
… some prefer embedded metadata as it cannot be detached from the publication, some say that external metadata is better as it is easier to maintain
02:28:26 [romain]
Murai: ???
02:28:38 [romain]
MURATA_makoto: we think both appraoches are feasible
02:28:52 [romain]
… we're investigating this in the EPUB 3 CG
02:29:39 [romain]
… Kawamura-san presented a diagram with higlighted text and synchronized audio
02:29:52 [romain]
… this is a difficult use case, and shows limitations of SVG and CSS
02:30:33 [romain]
… Prof ?? required an extension of SVG, we can also count on Florian's input
02:30:39 [romain]
… we're working on solutions
02:30:40 [sh_]
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02:31:11 [romain]
… thank you!
02:31:33 [laudrain]
q?
02:31:42 [ShinyaTakami]
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02:31:55 [JunGamo]
s/???/Why not use both?
02:34:34 [romain]
rrsagent, draft minutes
02:34:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html romain
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02:40:47 [laurent]
yoshii: publishing is not just books; magazine ... are in scope, we can expand content
02:41:53 [laurent]
...in the world of publishers, we need to take attention on who created content and for whom.
02:42:18 [laurent]
...in the future we'd like to demonstrate what web publishing can do
02:43:52 [laurent]
...important to have know who publishes info because it's ok in this case to publish stories about Loch Ness etc.
02:44:53 [laurent]
...such info carried by NYT would be a problem.
02:45:32 [laurent]
...there are maybe lots of techno that can be adapted for our needs. This is why we participate to the W3C.
02:48:08 [laurent]
...important for us to maintain what we have built as publishers, also important to look at new markets and technologies. Provide a service that can bring joy to users, and be a trusted publisher. For that superb technology needed.
02:48:40 [laurent]
...I encourage publishers to be more interested in new technologies. The print media industry should be more connected to other domains to transform ou industry
02:48:48 [laurent]
s/ou/our
02:50:09 [laurent]
...i the past the print publishing industry made a product, no way to transform is later. Changes are already happening in other medias (news, magazines), it it the trend of the industry.
02:50:15 [jkamata]
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02:50:19 [laurent]
this perspective is important.
02:50:33 [laurent]
...thanks.
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02:51:12 [laurent]
next presenter, Shin Mizushima, Kadokawa
02:51:45 [laurent]
shin: I'm the responsible for product management division. raw material, printing, ebook also.
02:52:22 [laurent]
...next generation is there via paper + digital content.
02:53:00 [laurent]
...kadokawa has catched up with trends, 30 to 40.000 books transforms to ebook form.
02:53:06 [Hoshino]
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02:53:21 [laurent]
...4.000 new books per year, ebook put immediately on the market also.
02:53:44 [laurent]
...we way package many times, packages are important.
02:54:09 [laurent]
...the user chooses btw paper or ebook; he chooses the package.
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02:54:55 [laurent]
...before users has to choose btw Vinyl and CD (2 packages), now digital distribution (new package)
02:54:59 [jyoshii]
present+
02:55:44 [laurent]
...many input received for speakers already.
02:56:14 [laurent]
...there are some limitations; some contents can only be expressed in ebook, other in paper only.
02:56:48 [laurent]
...a publishing company must find new values and present that to the readership.
02:57:01 [laurent]
...the business has to be sustained for quite a long time.
02:57:17 [laurent]
...therefore we have to balance production cost and selling price.
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02:58:07 [laurent]
...most present people come from IT sector. The cost structure is specific in the publishing sector.
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02:59:01 [laurent]
...viable business -> the product must be offered at a reasonable price -> reduce cost of reading material -> build huge inventory.
02:59:58 [laurent]
...if we're selling physical, printing & transport is a cost. Not true in digital form.
03:00:33 [laurent]
...we first produce the paper book then transform to ebook -> lots of work.
03:01:18 [laurent]
...to convert books to disability friendly ebooks is difficult.
03:01:31 [laurent]
...it's an issue of processing technology.
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03:02:49 [laurent]
...we need to progress on the processing technology.
03:03:46 [laurent]
...as a publisher we must continue to make efforts for better methods and techno. We already sell book and ebook at the same time.
03:05:54 [laurent]
...both forms have advantages. ebooks -> many in the same device; but without battery, no reading. publishers will continue producing both.
03:06:14 [laurent]
...but the readership will not increase.
03:06:18 [laudrain]
q?
03:06:49 [laurent]
...I'm an exception: when I buy a book I buy it in 2 forms, paper and digital.
03:06:52 [laurent]
...thanks.
03:09:51 [laurent]
dahei: next presenter is Tatsuya Igarashi, from Sony Corp, chair of w3c media entertainment IG
03:10:29 [laurent]
igarashi: there are similarities btw digital publishing and media entertainment.
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03:11:41 [laurent]
...delivery; both are networked media, thanks to the raise of internet
03:12:50 [laurent]
...more print media is going online; we see a shift from download to streaming.
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03:13:30 [laurent]
...in media entertainment at least; it may hit publishing also.
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03:14:07 [laurent]
...in the past there was a need for dedicated devices for media and publications, now shift to mobile devices.
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03:15:27 [laurent]
...we also see a move from mono-media (text, audio or video) to rich media (interactive, immersive). Even with a bluray.
03:16:24 [laurent]
...w3c is now working on new techno, expression of media is evolving, this will change the way entertainment is delivered.
03:16:56 [laurent]
...let's study common aspects of business
03:18:29 [laurent]
...open standard will make possible to deliver content to different users, they free us from older industry standards.
03:18:44 [laurent]
s/standard/standards
03:19:26 [laurent]
...more content is enjoyed through browsers, thanks to w3c technologies.
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03:20:51 [laurent]
...many IT giants are starting services similar to publishers' services.
03:21:21 [laurent]
...thanks to their dominance of advanced technologies
03:22:08 [laurent]
...the limited number of giants, with their delivery platforms, makes so that publishers must build on techno also.
03:22:22 [laurent]
Ex. Disney goes directly to consumers, with new platforms.
03:22:29 [laurent]
...thanks
03:22:56 [laurent]
luc: last speaker is Florian Rivoal
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03:24:16 [laurent]
dahei: Florian is involved in the CSS process, also consultant for japanese publishers.
03:27:31 [laurent]
...florian: EPUB 3.2 and EPUBCheck are great achievement, now what?
03:28:26 [laurent]
...epub concentrates on the document. When the spec say "the document must be like" we need a document validator.
03:28:49 [laurent]
...on the web is was the same not long ago. the html spec was like epub3 -> how the doc must be.
03:29:14 [laudrain]
s/html spec/html4 spec/
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03:29:54 [laurent]
...the web has changed, now the spec style is focusing on the software.
03:30:23 [laurent]
...in html5 we don't use a document validator, we test the browser.
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03:31:25 [laurent]
...when we updated EPUBCheck we discovered that some content previously sold was in error.
03:31:53 [laurent]
...if we focus on the software, we can know if the user can read the content, which is more useful.
03:32:15 [laurent]
...s/was/were
03:33:24 [laurent]
...if we want to use epub for the long term, we'll have better interop if we focus on what the software needs to do rather than what the content needs to be.
03:33:59 [laurent]
...after EPUB (not after EPUB 3.2)?
03:34:17 [naomi]
あり
03:34:23 [naomi]
s/あり/ /
03:34:24 [laurent]
...epub is separate from the web because the browser does not read it natively.
03:35:00 [laurent]
...the web is the convergent point of many industries
03:35:58 [laurent]
...but the web must learn from publishing, it is not good enough for presenting books and magazines.
03:36:43 [laurent]
...when we work on web publications, we don't improve the web.
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03:37:29 [laurent]
...therefore we don't really need a Publishing WG, but we need publishing people in all sorts of groups.
03:39:18 [laurent]
...CSS writing mode was pushed by the publishing industry. Most web (browser) engineers are from the west but with common work with experts from the east we can achieve that.
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03:40:52 [laudrain]
q?
03:41:57 [laurent]
...by participating to groups about typography, packaging, media, accessibility we'll make the web better.
03:42:00 [laurent]
...thanks
03:44:05 [wendyreid]
Present+
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03:44:34 [laurent]
igarashi: do you think browsers may replace reading systems?
03:44:48 [wendyreid]
q+
03:45:11 [laurent]
florian: DVD player became VoD applications, and now VoD services are in browsers.
03:45:19 [JunGamo]
s/igarashi/JunMurai/
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03:47:04 [laurent]
makoto: in the past I was tempted to create a variation of CSS for intl, experts of the W3C said "we'll deal with it". It was a success.
03:47:29 [laudrain]
ack wendyreid
03:47:31 [laudrain]
q?
03:48:17 [laurent]
wendy: we should be more involved in CSS etc. However I also think there is a place for the Publishing WG.
03:48:46 [laurent]
...we are not that far away from the browsers, we can move a little bit closer.
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03:50:17 [laurent]
florian: my take is that the publishing people must be careful discussing with other folks.
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RRSAgent: draft minutes
06:02:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html dauwhe
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rrsagent, make logs public
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rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-pbg-minutes.html laurent
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naomi_ has joined #pbg
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florian has joined #pbg
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naomi has joined #pbg
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ShinyaTakami has joined #pbg
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florian has left #pbg
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naomi has joined #pbg
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dauwhe has joined #pbg
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21:55:54 [Ralph]
rrsagent, bye
21:55:54 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items