01:44:26 RRSAgent has joined #openjs 01:44:26 logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-openjs-irc 01:44:28 rrsagent, make logs public 04:30:19 Zakim has joined #openjs 04:30:35 rrsagent make logs public 04:30:43 rrsagent, make logs public 04:30:54 s/rrsagent make logs public// 04:32:22 👋 04:32:28 hax has joined #openjs 04:34:32 jorydotcom has joined #openjs 04:34:45 sangwhan has joined #openjs 04:35:00 bkardell_ has joined #openjs 04:35:09 RRSAgent, draft minutes 04:35:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-openjs-minutes.html sangwhan 04:35:14 Chair: jorydotcom 04:35:29 RRSAgent, make minutes public 04:35:29 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', sangwhan. Try /msg RRSAgent help 04:35:45 Meeting: OpenJS Foundation Collaboration 04:35:59 joyee has joined #openjs 04:36:12 scribe nick: bkardell_ 04:36:26 scribenick: bkardell_ 04:36:31 scribenick: joyee 04:36:41 scribenick: bkardell_ 04:36:43 present+ cb 04:36:48 present+ 04:36:53 present+ 04:36:54 present+ 04:37:16 present + 04:37:53 jorydotcom: this came from an idea - the open js foundation has been a w3c member for a long time ... 04:38:02 recently merged with nodejs foundation .. 04:38:43 wanted to talk about and coordinate efforts and we thought it would be great to have a session where we could talk to members of w3c, our members in wgs, our projects 04:38:49 torgo has joined #openjs 04:39:02 present+ Dan Appelquist 04:39:06 ... not a really formal session, we wanted to do conversation and brainstorming 04:39:28 where do we see opportunities to do more coordination/involvment/partnerships 04:39:40 04:39:53 32 projects - some of them are in emeritus stage 04:40:03 5 impact projects 04:40:11 the rest are at large/growth projects 04:40:21 they represent a diverse set of concerns 04:40:36 actually - let's do introductions... 04:40:39 04:43:18 returning to the projects... as you can see they are diverse, we're looking for how we can coordinate more and particpate more in standards 04:44:00 the structure of the open js foundation... 04:44:42 board of directors board, cross project council, impact, growth, at large and emeritus projects 04:45:11 the CPC is the group of people in the community who are very active in helping make sure the community can help drive the activity of the foundation ... 04:45:46 one of the programs that we want to do is a standards working group - we just started meeting bi-weekly a month or two ago ... 04:47:43 we w to be talking with and working with the w3c, what can we do to strengthen this 04:48:20 torgo: what are the outcomes we would like to see happen that aren't happening now 04:48:52 tobie has joined #openjs 04:49:06 cb: for people who build standards, they miss use cases - I think that's one part where projects can really help... 04:49:09 present+ 04:49:29 the projects can help provide feedback and make sure we are helping improve that 04:50:25 torgo: I just heard about the webxr community providing a spec and a javacript library that is a companion -- not officially part of the spec but I think will be published with the w3c license... 04:50:40 is this something that we can do better 04:50:43 jorydotcom has joined #openjs 04:51:07 tobie: isn't there related rtc stuff? 04:51:20 torgo: I am just saying this one because I think it is one I just heard - but I think there are other examples like this that could use a center of gravity 04:52:34 tobie: it would be intersting to have a governance model around a project like this because it would be a lot for a small thing, but I wonder if they could all fall under one sort of unbrella thing in the open jsf or something 04:52:45 jory: interesting idea 04:53:22 wseltzer: question because I am relatively new to the open js foundation ... what does it add here? 04:54:22 jory: I think there are some things - discoverability, perhaps less accessible to the broader audience. They might not even realize as easily that they could _contribute_, but if it is an open js foundation thing, they do expect that 04:54:30 tobie: lifecycles are also very different 04:54:59 sandwhan: it would be great if polyfills could be that way 04:55:18 bkardell_: thanks for saying that, I was trying to bring that up in between typing 04:55:55 tobie: I wrote a polyfill when I was doing geolocation, and I had this problem, it got out of sync quickly and I couldn't maintain it.. I dont think people knew they could help 04:56:24 sangwhan: also licensing issues apply to the spec, not the library 04:56:37 wseltzer: we could fix that 04:57:38 sangwhan: there are specs happening in w3c that don't need a browser techincally, but we built it so that it does require a browser. Example: service workers rulesets - could be useful for building routers for example, but it requires service workers 04:57:55 sangwhan: it would be good to get feedback as soon as possible 04:58:18 s/sandwhan/sangwhan/ 04:58:44 jorydotcom: bkardell_ and littledan have been working on some outreach to do this, and we've been thinking about how to do this recently and integrate it 05:01:35 jorydotcom: we have people in open js foundation who are involved in other tc too - tc-53, for resource constrained devices 05:03:02 https://twitter.com/StandardsIn2Min 05:04:43 torgo has joined #openjs 05:06:10 torgo: I find this frustrating - like even with mdn, you find all of this extremely detailed infromation but the thing you often want is just the high level "what even is this?" - I wonder if there is opportunity for collaboration of 2 minute standards with mdn, for example 05:06:14 bkardell_: I think yes 05:06:41 jorydotcom has joined #openjs 05:07:18 wseltzer: this is very interesting for thinking about the ecosystem and collaboration... it seems like code is where we could do more for the ongoing maintenance 05:07:34 wseltzer: are there things that go in the other directions 05:08:08 bkardell_: a lot of examples of that already I think , so yes 05:08:31 tobie: lots of examples of things that span, like modules 05:08:47 wseltzer: are there things w3c could be doing to be a better partner here? 05:10:04 joyee: we are already working with whatwg and node but only in the form of writing code... it would be great if the foundation could help facilitate the communication. People who implement and test, work together - and that helps... but sometimes in node-core for example, we ask for a justification, we can't make changes ... 05:10:24 joyee: i would hope the foundation could help facilitate 05:11:24 jorydotcom: I think we have examples of projects that were designed to solve... we've had fair success in getting feedback, there's not as many recent examples I can think of and I think that should change. We have projects that are working to solve things like internationalization or accessibility 05:11:46 jorydotcom: and we should be working with standards there 05:13:36 jorydotcom: if you go to the website, there is a slack link and a standards channel there that you can join... it is open to anyone in our project community - we take a pretty liberal view to what that means, we would love to have any of you as participants 05:14:22 torgo: what are the action items? 05:14:29 bkardell_: we can open an issue 05:14:33 torgo: where? 05:15:04 github openjs-foundation/standards 05:15:39 jorydotcom: we can also just go ttalk to some we know about if you know them... we could talk to the xr folks 05:15:56 torgo: go talk to ada while here - we can use it as a case study 05:16:09 jorydotcom: we can ask other groups 05:16:20 jorydotcom: do we know that or something? 05:16:33 wseltzer: no.. we don't 05:16:56 wseltzer: especially if we had some benefits to describe to them, it would help for that 05:18:17 tobie: knowing the process to create a project - i worry that if we make it super complicated, it will be very uncompelling. You want to create a thing just for this basically 05:18:55 torgo: you want to talk to them though and figure out what that looks like... some kind of space that is jointly branded/held 05:20:08 bkardell_: asks about the stuff w3c historically developed 05:20:17 (nothing really interesting discussed) 05:20:57 tobie: hmmm now that you mention it, we have a whole lot of tools -- a whole bunch of tools, they could live here? 05:22:48 respec? bikeshed? I have stuff... for a lot of that though, you have to make it easy to not disincentivize it 05:23:35 jorydotcom: we have that meeting mentioned before next tues - the 24th, at 18:00 UTC, you can find the invite on the site, or slack and ask 05:23:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:23:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-openjs-minutes.html wseltzer 05:27:12 thank you for taking notes bkardell_ !! 05:45:59 jorydotcom has joined #openjs 06:52:16 Zakim has left #openjs 07:53:34 jorydotcom has joined #openjs 08:00:13 jorydotc_ has joined #openjs 08:15:48 bkardell_ has joined #openjs 08:37:43 jorydotcom has joined #openjs