IRC log of openjs on 2019-09-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

01:44:26 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #openjs
01:44:26 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-openjs-irc
01:44:28 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make logs public
04:30:19 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #openjs
04:30:35 [wseltzer]
rrsagent make logs public
04:30:43 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make logs public
04:30:54 [wseltzer]
s/rrsagent make logs public//
04:32:22 [cb]
👋
04:32:28 [hax]
hax has joined #openjs
04:34:32 [jorydotcom]
jorydotcom has joined #openjs
04:34:45 [sangwhan]
sangwhan has joined #openjs
04:35:00 [bkardell_]
bkardell_ has joined #openjs
04:35:09 [sangwhan]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
04:35:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-openjs-minutes.html sangwhan
04:35:14 [jorydotcom]
Chair: jorydotcom
04:35:29 [sangwhan]
RRSAgent, make minutes public
04:35:29 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', sangwhan. Try /msg RRSAgent help
04:35:45 [wseltzer]
Meeting: OpenJS Foundation Collaboration
04:35:59 [joyee]
joyee has joined #openjs
04:36:12 [bkardell_]
scribe nick: bkardell_
04:36:26 [bkardell_]
scribenick: bkardell_
04:36:31 [joyee]
scribenick: joyee
04:36:41 [bkardell_]
scribenick: bkardell_
04:36:43 [cb]
present+ cb
04:36:48 [jorydotcom]
present+
04:36:53 [joyee]
present+
04:36:54 [wseltzer]
present+
04:37:16 [bkardell_]
present +
04:37:53 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: this came from an idea - the open js foundation has been a w3c member for a long time ...
04:38:02 [bkardell_]
recently merged with nodejs foundation ..
04:38:43 [bkardell_]
wanted to talk about and coordinate efforts and we thought it would be great to have a session where we could talk to members of w3c, our members in wgs, our projects
04:38:49 [torgo]
torgo has joined #openjs
04:39:02 [torgo]
present+ Dan Appelquist
04:39:06 [bkardell_]
... not a really formal session, we wanted to do conversation and brainstorming
04:39:28 [bkardell_]
where do we see opportunities to do more coordination/involvment/partnerships
04:39:40 [bkardell_]
<jory presents slides>
04:39:53 [bkardell_]
32 projects - some of them are in emeritus stage
04:40:03 [bkardell_]
5 impact projects
04:40:11 [bkardell_]
the rest are at large/growth projects
04:40:21 [bkardell_]
they represent a diverse set of concerns
04:40:36 [bkardell_]
actually - let's do introductions...
04:40:39 [bkardell_]
<introductions>
04:43:18 [bkardell_]
returning to the projects... as you can see they are diverse, we're looking for how we can coordinate more and particpate more in standards
04:44:00 [bkardell_]
the structure of the open js foundation...
04:44:42 [bkardell_]
board of directors board, cross project council, impact, growth, at large and emeritus projects
04:45:11 [bkardell_]
the CPC is the group of people in the community who are very active in helping make sure the community can help drive the activity of the foundation ...
04:45:46 [bkardell_]
one of the programs that we want to do is a standards working group - we just started meeting bi-weekly a month or two ago ...
04:47:43 [bkardell_]
we w to be talking with and working with the w3c, what can we do to strengthen this
04:48:20 [bkardell_]
torgo: what are the outcomes we would like to see happen that aren't happening now
04:48:52 [tobie]
tobie has joined #openjs
04:49:06 [bkardell_]
cb: for people who build standards, they miss use cases - I think that's one part where projects can really help...
04:49:09 [tobie]
present+
04:49:29 [bkardell_]
the projects can help provide feedback and make sure we are helping improve that
04:50:25 [bkardell_]
torgo: I just heard about the webxr community providing a spec and a javacript library that is a companion -- not officially part of the spec but I think will be published with the w3c license...
04:50:40 [bkardell_]
is this something that we can do better
04:50:43 [jorydotcom]
jorydotcom has joined #openjs
04:51:07 [bkardell_]
tobie: isn't there related rtc stuff?
04:51:20 [bkardell_]
torgo: I am just saying this one because I think it is one I just heard - but I think there are other examples like this that could use a center of gravity
04:52:34 [bkardell_]
tobie: it would be intersting to have a governance model around a project like this because it would be a lot for a small thing, but I wonder if they could all fall under one sort of unbrella thing in the open jsf or something
04:52:45 [bkardell_]
jory: interesting idea
04:53:22 [bkardell_]
wseltzer: question because I am relatively new to the open js foundation ... what does it add here?
04:54:22 [bkardell_]
jory: I think there are some things - discoverability, perhaps less accessible to the broader audience. They might not even realize as easily that they could _contribute_, but if it is an open js foundation thing, they do expect that
04:54:30 [bkardell_]
tobie: lifecycles are also very different
04:54:59 [bkardell_]
sandwhan: it would be great if polyfills could be that way
04:55:18 [bkardell_]
bkardell_: thanks for saying that, I was trying to bring that up in between typing
04:55:55 [bkardell_]
tobie: I wrote a polyfill when I was doing geolocation, and I had this problem, it got out of sync quickly and I couldn't maintain it.. I dont think people knew they could help
04:56:24 [bkardell_]
sangwhan: also licensing issues apply to the spec, not the library
04:56:37 [bkardell_]
wseltzer: we could fix that
04:57:38 [bkardell_]
sangwhan: there are specs happening in w3c that don't need a browser techincally, but we built it so that it does require a browser. Example: service workers rulesets - could be useful for building routers for example, but it requires service workers
04:57:55 [bkardell_]
sangwhan: it would be good to get feedback as soon as possible
04:58:18 [sangwhan]
s/sandwhan/sangwhan/
04:58:44 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: bkardell_ and littledan have been working on some outreach to do this, and we've been thinking about how to do this recently and integrate it
05:01:35 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: we have people in open js foundation who are involved in other tc too - tc-53, for resource constrained devices
05:03:02 [bkardell_]
https://twitter.com/StandardsIn2Min
05:04:43 [torgo]
torgo has joined #openjs
05:06:10 [bkardell_]
torgo: I find this frustrating - like even with mdn, you find all of this extremely detailed infromation but the thing you often want is just the high level "what even is this?" - I wonder if there is opportunity for collaboration of 2 minute standards with mdn, for example
05:06:14 [bkardell_]
bkardell_: I think yes
05:06:41 [jorydotcom]
jorydotcom has joined #openjs
05:07:18 [bkardell_]
wseltzer: this is very interesting for thinking about the ecosystem and collaboration... it seems like code is where we could do more for the ongoing maintenance
05:07:34 [bkardell_]
wseltzer: are there things that go in the other directions
05:08:08 [bkardell_]
bkardell_: a lot of examples of that already I think , so yes
05:08:31 [bkardell_]
tobie: lots of examples of things that span, like modules
05:08:47 [bkardell_]
wseltzer: are there things w3c could be doing to be a better partner here?
05:10:04 [bkardell_]
joyee: we are already working with whatwg and node but only in the form of writing code... it would be great if the foundation could help facilitate the communication. People who implement and test, work together - and that helps... but sometimes in node-core for example, we ask for a justification, we can't make changes ...
05:10:24 [bkardell_]
joyee: i would hope the foundation could help facilitate
05:11:24 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: I think we have examples of projects that were designed to solve... we've had fair success in getting feedback, there's not as many recent examples I can think of and I think that should change. We have projects that are working to solve things like internationalization or accessibility
05:11:46 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: and we should be working with standards there
05:13:36 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: if you go to the website, there is a slack link and a standards channel there that you can join... it is open to anyone in our project community - we take a pretty liberal view to what that means, we would love to have any of you as participants
05:14:22 [bkardell_]
torgo: what are the action items?
05:14:29 [bkardell_]
bkardell_: we can open an issue
05:14:33 [bkardell_]
torgo: where?
05:15:04 [bkardell_]
github openjs-foundation/standards
05:15:39 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: we can also just go ttalk to some we know about if you know them... we could talk to the xr folks
05:15:56 [bkardell_]
torgo: go talk to ada while here - we can use it as a case study
05:16:09 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: we can ask other groups
05:16:20 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: do we know that or something?
05:16:33 [bkardell_]
wseltzer: no.. we don't
05:16:56 [bkardell_]
wseltzer: especially if we had some benefits to describe to them, it would help for that
05:18:17 [bkardell_]
tobie: knowing the process to create a project - i worry that if we make it super complicated, it will be very uncompelling. You want to create a thing just for this basically
05:18:55 [bkardell_]
torgo: you want to talk to them though and figure out what that looks like... some kind of space that is jointly branded/held
05:20:08 [bkardell_]
bkardell_: asks about the stuff w3c historically developed
05:20:17 [bkardell_]
(nothing really interesting discussed)
05:20:57 [bkardell_]
tobie: hmmm now that you mention it, we have a whole lot of tools -- a whole bunch of tools, they could live here?
05:22:48 [bkardell_]
respec? bikeshed? I have stuff... for a lot of that though, you have to make it easy to not disincentivize it
05:23:35 [bkardell_]
jorydotcom: we have that meeting mentioned before next tues - the 24th, at 18:00 UTC, you can find the invite on the site, or slack and ask
05:23:54 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, draft minutes
05:23:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-openjs-minutes.html wseltzer
05:27:12 [jorydotcom]
thank you for taking notes bkardell_ !!
05:45:59 [jorydotcom]
jorydotcom has joined #openjs
06:52:16 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #openjs
07:53:34 [jorydotcom]
jorydotcom has joined #openjs
08:00:13 [jorydotc_]
jorydotc_ has joined #openjs
08:15:48 [bkardell_]
bkardell_ has joined #openjs
08:37:43 [jorydotcom]
jorydotcom has joined #openjs