IRC log of digital-transformation on 2019-09-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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scribe: Bert
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08:38:59 [Bert]
Dave shows some slides.
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dsr: First part is non-technical, about the motivation.
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08:40:45 [Bert]
... 2nd part is about making RDF easier, and about machine learning
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08:41:53 [Bert]
... Ditial Transformation is a hot topic, at least in Europe. This work is supported by a large EU project, called Boost.
08:42:07 [gkellogg]
present+ Gregg_Kellogg
08:42:21 [Bert]
... DT is widely applicable.
08:43:40 [Bert]
... Modern car production is an example where it is already applied. E.g., individually adapted products, rather than mass production
08:44:33 [Bert]
... Required digital integration, from office floor to shop floor to manufacturing, via board room.
08:44:49 [Bert]
s/Required/Requires
08:45:33 [Bert]
... Also integration in time, keeping history of a product, use and lifecycle.
08:45:37 [dezell]
present+
08:46:46 [Bert]
... Hurdles: many companies still use paper forms, knowledge is in people's heads, (paper) documents are outdated...
08:48:01 [Bert]
joemedley: Today's digital processes are often just the old paper processes done digitally.
08:48:49 [Bert]
dsr: Diff. orgs. have different histories and different ways of talking about things.
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08:49:41 [Bert]
... Need an incremental approach, bring people along, capture knowledge.
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08:51:20 [Bert]
... DAMA Intl. developed a "data governance wheel" with things to consider. Data governance and data management not necessarily clearly differentiated.
08:52:05 [Bert]
... Graphs are a flexible way to represent knowledge. More flexible than a SQL database.
08:52:17 [phila]
present+
08:53:23 [Bert]
... Knowledge Graphs (aka ontologies).
08:54:03 [Bert]
... There are many graph database vendors and the number is growing.
08:55:06 [Bert]
... Sentient Web is a watu to bring things together: sensors + graphs + rules for reasoning (AI, Machine Learning)
08:56:23 [Bert]
... No large org. has a single database, it is distributed.
08:57:17 [Bert]
Phil: True, but you'd be surprised how many are trying make a "single source of truth" (without success).
08:57:32 [Bert]
s/make/to make
08:57:50 [Bert]
dsr: RDF foundation for data.
08:58:14 [Bert]
... W3C Graph Data workshop last March.
08:58:24 [Bert]
... Writing white paper.
08:59:01 [Bert]
... Expecting standardization work at W3C.
08:59:49 [Bert]
... W3C Business Group.
09:00:05 [Bert]
dezell: A list of companies interested in the Bus. Group?
09:00:44 [Bert]
dsr: We have been slow in talking to companies after the workshop. But let me know if you're interested.
09:01:10 [Bert]
Phil: Interesting topic, but not sure I'll be able to join.
09:02:03 [Bert]
dsr: Flip side of digital transformation is need for good security. But many orgs. still working with old computers.
09:02:33 [Bert]
... UK's NHS, e.g., very much based on paper processes.
09:03:14 [Bert]
Phil: My org is trying to help them...
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s/My org/NHSX/
09:03:49 [Bert]
dsr: At least there is a common medical vocabulary.
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09:05:24 [Bert]
-> https://www.w3.org/Data/events/tpac2019/digital-transformation.pdf Dave's slides
09:05:57 [Bert]
dsr: Discussion topics:
09:07:03 [Bert]
... We can share use cases, collect ideas.
09:07:21 [Bert]
... 2nd part is technical details.
09:08:29 [Bert]
... Need ways to derive ontologies automatically, rather than by hand.
09:09:14 [Bert]
... "Easier RDF" project by David Booth.
09:10:34 [Bert]
... I did some hacking in August (during what W3C team calls "Geek Week").
09:11:14 [Bert]
... Simpler query languges.
09:11:35 [Bert]
gkellogg: Did you look at GraphQL?
09:12:16 [Bert]
dsr: Don't think I did, but th elist on my slide is not meant to be complete.
09:13:44 [Bert]
Dave shows different queries (using Turtle syntax).
09:14:14 [Bert]
Implementation runs in a browser.
09:15:03 [Bert]
It fetches data and applies a query. Allows to step through the execution.
09:15:51 [Bert]
dsr: Expressing both the rules and the data in RDF is meant to make machine learning easier.
09:16:46 [Bert]
Phil: Is this really easier than Sparql?
09:17:04 [Bert]
dsr: Don't know yet, needs experimenting.
09:17:33 [Bert]
... Sparql, like SQL, looks for patterns.
09:18:03 [Bert]
... The RDF approach allows building a state machine.
09:18:41 [Bert]
... Shacl could, with this approach, become a machine that does validation.
09:19:06 [Bert]
... RDF/Turtle not ideal. There may be easier ways.
09:19:55 [Bert]
... Looked at research in cognitive science, brain research.
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09:20:54 [Bert]
... Psychology uses the word "chunk" for a set of properties.
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09:22:51 [Bert]
... A link between chunks is also a (simple) chunk.
09:23:57 [Bert]
... But have to deal with noise, imprecise data. Need to combine symbolic and statistical approaches.
09:24:44 [Bert]
... Data is accessed via a small "buffer". Looks limiting, but allows scaling.
09:26:16 [Bert]
Dave shows examples. One example is a model of how people count. You need rules that say which number follows which other number, it not not like a calculator.
09:27:00 [Bert]
The demo shows how the rule that says 4 follows 3 is found and applied, then the next, etc.
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s/not/is not/
09:28:19 [Bert]
Another demo shows a (simulated) car following a road.
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09:29:31 [Bert]
dsr: Autonomous driving has rules that are spatial and temporal.
09:31:08 [Bert]
... There is a context as well. E.g., a book can describe a world that is like the real world, except for some rules.
09:32:11 [Bert]
... Imitiating human memory recall, finding probably useful information, dealing with noise.
09:33:34 [Bert]
... We can borrow from cognitive science, which has studied this since some time.
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09:34:58 [Bert]
... Learning and problem solving typically starts quite wild and gets more focused with experience.
09:36:01 [Bert]
... Use inspiration from brain, conscious and unconscious functions.
09:37:04 [Bert]
... Cognitive Agent could get info from distributed sources.
09:38:49 [Bert]
... Next steps? Collect use cases, data sets. Also figure out the economics, cost of collecting a data set.
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09:40:20 [Bert]
Phil: Research organizations working together could do it.
09:40:48 [Bert]
... Sounds very advanced.
09:41:26 [Bert]
dsr: Using the insights from research in other areas simplifies the problem.
09:41:35 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
09:41:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
09:41:46 [Bert]
present+
09:41:49 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
09:41:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html dsr
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s/Ditial/Digital/
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: rrsagent, make minutes
12:25:53 [Bert]
Meeting: Breakout: Digital Transformation
12:26:09 [Bert]
Chair: Dave Raggett
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-> https://w3c.github.io/tpac-breakouts/sessions.html#digital-transformation Session description
12:27:01 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
12:27:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
12:28:02 [Bert]
s/Ditial/Digital
12:28:50 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
12:28:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
12:33:45 [Bert]
s/: rrsagent, make minutes//
12:35:40 [Bert]
s/th elist/the list
12:37:05 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
12:37:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
12:38:17 [Bert]
present+ joemedley
12:39:00 [Bert]
present+ yoshiaki
12:40:10 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
12:40:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
12:44:42 [Bert]
present+ ??
12:44:45 [Bert]
RRSAgent, make minutes v2
12:44:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
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