IRC log of digital-transformation on 2019-09-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-irc
- 01:43:45 [koalie]
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- 08:36:16 [Bert]
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- scribe: Bert
- 08:38:11 [dsr]
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- 08:38:59 [Bert]
- Dave shows some slides.
- 08:39:44 [Bert]
- dsr: First part is non-technical, about the motivation.
- 08:40:38 [jc]
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- 08:40:45 [Bert]
- ... 2nd part is about making RDF easier, and about machine learning
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- 08:41:03 [joemedley]
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- 08:41:17 [gkellogg]
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- 08:41:53 [Bert]
- ... Ditial Transformation is a hot topic, at least in Europe. This work is supported by a large EU project, called Boost.
- 08:42:07 [gkellogg]
- present+ Gregg_Kellogg
- 08:42:21 [Bert]
- ... DT is widely applicable.
- 08:43:40 [Bert]
- ... Modern car production is an example where it is already applied. E.g., individually adapted products, rather than mass production
- 08:44:33 [Bert]
- ... Required digital integration, from office floor to shop floor to manufacturing, via board room.
- 08:44:49 [Bert]
- s/Required/Requires
- 08:45:33 [Bert]
- ... Also integration in time, keeping history of a product, use and lifecycle.
- 08:45:37 [dezell]
- present+
- 08:46:46 [Bert]
- ... Hurdles: many companies still use paper forms, knowledge is in people's heads, (paper) documents are outdated...
- 08:48:01 [Bert]
- joemedley: Today's digital processes are often just the old paper processes done digitally.
- 08:48:49 [Bert]
- dsr: Diff. orgs. have different histories and different ways of talking about things.
- 08:49:25 [phila_]
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- 08:49:41 [Bert]
- ... Need an incremental approach, bring people along, capture knowledge.
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- 08:51:20 [Bert]
- ... DAMA Intl. developed a "data governance wheel" with things to consider. Data governance and data management not necessarily clearly differentiated.
- 08:52:05 [Bert]
- ... Graphs are a flexible way to represent knowledge. More flexible than a SQL database.
- 08:52:17 [phila]
- present+
- 08:53:23 [Bert]
- ... Knowledge Graphs (aka ontologies).
- 08:54:03 [Bert]
- ... There are many graph database vendors and the number is growing.
- 08:55:06 [Bert]
- ... Sentient Web is a watu to bring things together: sensors + graphs + rules for reasoning (AI, Machine Learning)
- 08:56:23 [Bert]
- ... No large org. has a single database, it is distributed.
- 08:57:17 [Bert]
- Phil: True, but you'd be surprised how many are trying make a "single source of truth" (without success).
- 08:57:32 [Bert]
- s/make/to make
- 08:57:50 [Bert]
- dsr: RDF foundation for data.
- 08:58:14 [Bert]
- ... W3C Graph Data workshop last March.
- 08:58:24 [Bert]
- ... Writing white paper.
- 08:59:01 [Bert]
- ... Expecting standardization work at W3C.
- 08:59:49 [Bert]
- ... W3C Business Group.
- 09:00:05 [Bert]
- dezell: A list of companies interested in the Bus. Group?
- 09:00:44 [Bert]
- dsr: We have been slow in talking to companies after the workshop. But let me know if you're interested.
- 09:01:10 [Bert]
- Phil: Interesting topic, but not sure I'll be able to join.
- 09:02:03 [Bert]
- dsr: Flip side of digital transformation is need for good security. But many orgs. still working with old computers.
- 09:02:33 [Bert]
- ... UK's NHS, e.g., very much based on paper processes.
- 09:03:14 [Bert]
- Phil: My org is trying to help them...
- 09:03:33 [phila]
- s/My org/NHSX/
- 09:03:49 [Bert]
- dsr: At least there is a common medical vocabulary.
- 09:04:27 [jc]
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- 09:05:24 [Bert]
- -> https://www.w3.org/Data/events/tpac2019/digital-transformation.pdf Dave's slides
- 09:05:57 [Bert]
- dsr: Discussion topics:
- 09:07:03 [Bert]
- ... We can share use cases, collect ideas.
- 09:07:21 [Bert]
- ... 2nd part is technical details.
- 09:08:29 [Bert]
- ... Need ways to derive ontologies automatically, rather than by hand.
- 09:09:14 [Bert]
- ... "Easier RDF" project by David Booth.
- 09:10:34 [Bert]
- ... I did some hacking in August (during what W3C team calls "Geek Week").
- 09:11:14 [Bert]
- ... Simpler query languges.
- 09:11:35 [Bert]
- gkellogg: Did you look at GraphQL?
- 09:12:16 [Bert]
- dsr: Don't think I did, but th elist on my slide is not meant to be complete.
- 09:13:44 [Bert]
- Dave shows different queries (using Turtle syntax).
- 09:14:14 [Bert]
- Implementation runs in a browser.
- 09:15:03 [Bert]
- It fetches data and applies a query. Allows to step through the execution.
- 09:15:51 [Bert]
- dsr: Expressing both the rules and the data in RDF is meant to make machine learning easier.
- 09:16:46 [Bert]
- Phil: Is this really easier than Sparql?
- 09:17:04 [Bert]
- dsr: Don't know yet, needs experimenting.
- 09:17:33 [Bert]
- ... Sparql, like SQL, looks for patterns.
- 09:18:03 [Bert]
- ... The RDF approach allows building a state machine.
- 09:18:41 [Bert]
- ... Shacl could, with this approach, become a machine that does validation.
- 09:19:06 [Bert]
- ... RDF/Turtle not ideal. There may be easier ways.
- 09:19:55 [Bert]
- ... Looked at research in cognitive science, brain research.
- 09:20:17 [jc]
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- 09:20:54 [Bert]
- ... Psychology uses the word "chunk" for a set of properties.
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- 09:22:51 [Bert]
- ... A link between chunks is also a (simple) chunk.
- 09:23:57 [Bert]
- ... But have to deal with noise, imprecise data. Need to combine symbolic and statistical approaches.
- 09:24:44 [Bert]
- ... Data is accessed via a small "buffer". Looks limiting, but allows scaling.
- 09:26:16 [Bert]
- Dave shows examples. One example is a model of how people count. You need rules that say which number follows which other number, it not not like a calculator.
- 09:27:00 [Bert]
- The demo shows how the rule that says 4 follows 3 is found and applied, then the next, etc.
- 09:27:21 [Bert]
- s/not/is not/
- 09:28:19 [Bert]
- Another demo shows a (simulated) car following a road.
- 09:28:50 [jc]
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- 09:29:31 [Bert]
- dsr: Autonomous driving has rules that are spatial and temporal.
- 09:31:08 [Bert]
- ... There is a context as well. E.g., a book can describe a world that is like the real world, except for some rules.
- 09:32:11 [Bert]
- ... Imitiating human memory recall, finding probably useful information, dealing with noise.
- 09:33:34 [Bert]
- ... We can borrow from cognitive science, which has studied this since some time.
- 09:34:49 [yoshiaki]
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- 09:34:58 [Bert]
- ... Learning and problem solving typically starts quite wild and gets more focused with experience.
- 09:36:01 [Bert]
- ... Use inspiration from brain, conscious and unconscious functions.
- 09:37:04 [Bert]
- ... Cognitive Agent could get info from distributed sources.
- 09:38:49 [Bert]
- ... Next steps? Collect use cases, data sets. Also figure out the economics, cost of collecting a data set.
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- 09:40:20 [Bert]
- Phil: Research organizations working together could do it.
- 09:40:48 [Bert]
- ... Sounds very advanced.
- 09:41:26 [Bert]
- dsr: Using the insights from research in other areas simplifies the problem.
- 09:41:35 [Bert]
- RRSAgent, make minutes v2
- 09:41:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
- 09:41:46 [Bert]
- present+
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- RRSAgent, make minutes v2
- 09:41:49 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
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- rrsagent, make minutes
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- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html dsr
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- s/Ditial/Digital/
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- : rrsagent, make minutes
- 12:25:53 [Bert]
- Meeting: Breakout: Digital Transformation
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- Chair: Dave Raggett
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- -> https://w3c.github.io/tpac-breakouts/sessions.html#digital-transformation Session description
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- RRSAgent, make minutes v2
- 12:27:01 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
- 12:28:02 [Bert]
- s/Ditial/Digital
- 12:28:50 [Bert]
- RRSAgent, make minutes v2
- 12:28:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
- 12:33:45 [Bert]
- s/: rrsagent, make minutes//
- 12:35:40 [Bert]
- s/th elist/the list
- 12:37:05 [Bert]
- RRSAgent, make minutes v2
- 12:37:05 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
- 12:38:17 [Bert]
- present+ joemedley
- 12:39:00 [Bert]
- present+ yoshiaki
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- RRSAgent, make minutes v2
- 12:40:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
- 12:44:42 [Bert]
- present+ ??
- 12:44:45 [Bert]
- RRSAgent, make minutes v2
- 12:44:45 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/18-digital-transformation-minutes.html Bert
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