IRC log of me on 2019-09-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 00:01:49 [RRSAgent]
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- 00:01:49 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-irc
- 00:02:03 [cpn]
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- 00:02:10 [kaz]
- Meeting: Media and Entertainment IG f2f meeting at TPAC 2019 in Fukuoka
- 00:02:18 [koizuka]
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- 00:03:01 [Igarashi]
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- 00:04:08 [kaz]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Face_to_face_meeting_during_TPAC_2019#Agenda_Monday_16_September_2019
- 00:05:18 [kaz]
- cpn: welcome and let's get started
- 00:05:25 [koizuka]
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- 00:05:26 [kaz]
- ... this is a one-day meeting today
- 00:05:37 [kaz]
- ... starting with the general view about the MEIG
- 00:05:44 [kaz]
- ... [W3C Code of Ethics]
- 00:06:03 [kaz]
- i/cpn:/Welcome and introduction/
- 00:06:20 [kaz]
- ... [Media&Entertainment IG: Mission]
- 00:06:48 [kaz]
- ... apply Web technology in general to media services
- 00:06:50 [nr]
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- 00:07:12 [kaz]
- ... new use cases/requirements to drive the discussion
- 00:07:32 [kaz]
- ... [History of Major Initiatives]
- 00:07:41 [nr]
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- 00:07:48 [kaz]
- ... 1. 2011-2014: HTML5 Media Pipeline
- 00:08:03 [kaz]
- ... 2. 2011-2017: Adaptive streaming & content protection
- 00:08:08 [suzuki]
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- 00:08:26 [kaz]
- ... 3. 2017-2019: Media Web App Platform
- 00:08:37 [kaz]
- ... [Charter]
- 00:08:46 [kaz]
- ... scope covers almost everything
- 00:08:52 [kaz]
- ... end-to-end pipeline
- 00:09:09 [kaz]
- ... continuous experience
- 00:09:12 [hfuji]
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- 00:09:24 [kaz]
- ... increasing interactive media
- 00:09:28 [kaz]
- ... including games
- 00:10:11 [kaz]
- ... [Charter (cont.)]
- 00:10:14 [kaz]
- ... Tasks
- 00:10:23 [kaz]
- ... identify requirements
- 00:10:32 [kaz]
- ... incubation of technical
- 00:10:42 [lin_li]
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- 00:10:46 [kaz]
- ... review media-related deliverables
- 00:11:06 [kaz]
- ... coordinate with other media-related groups, e.g., MPEG, HbbTV, ...
- 00:11:20 [ak]
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- 00:11:37 [kaz]
- ... internationalization, accessibility, etc., are very important
- 00:11:41 [kaz]
- ... [Work Flow]
- 00:12:08 [kaz]
- ... new ideas & issues from Members and SDOs
- 00:12:20 [kaz]
- ... use cases, requirments and gap analysis
- 00:12:26 [kaz]
- ... but not specs themselves
- 00:12:32 [kaz]
- ... because this is an IG
- 00:13:03 [kaz]
- ... but some of the results could promote new features for other WGs
- 00:13:30 [kaz]
- ... we're encouraged to work on more and more new features
- 00:13:34 [gkatsev]
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- 00:13:35 [kaz]
- ... [WICG]
- 00:13:47 [kaz]
- ... discourse forum there
- 00:14:24 [kaz]
- ... get implementer supporter for your idea
- 00:14:37 [kaz]
- ... GitHub repo for your proposed feature
- 00:16:18 [kaz]
- ... [Contributing to HTML and DOM]
- 00:16:24 [kaz]
- ... HTML WG and WHATWG
- 00:16:28 [kaz]
- ... [Task Forces]
- 00:16:46 [kaz]
- ... 2018-19: Media Timed Events TF
- 00:17:06 [kaz]
- ... 2016-17: Cloud Browser API TF (dormant)
- 00:17:56 [kaz]
- remote+ Kazuhiro_Hoya, Lei_Zhai
- 00:18:20 [kaz]
- cpn: [Monthly conference call]
- 00:18:34 [kaz]
- ... 2019/2018
- 00:18:39 [kaz]
- ... (list of topics)
- 00:18:46 [kaz]
- ... [Activities for 2020]
- 00:19:00 [urata_]
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- 00:19:00 [kaz]
- ... whole bunch of topics for Media WG
- 00:19:08 [kaz]
- ... potential candidates for adaptation
- 00:19:33 [kaz]
- ... MEIG can input use cases and requirements
- 00:19:42 [kaz]
- ... [Activities for 2020 (cont)]
- 00:19:48 [kaz]
- ... what will be new topics for 2020?
- 00:19:54 [kaz]
- ... what would be the main things?
- 00:20:25 [kaz]
- ... would like to capture ideas
- 00:20:44 [kaz]
- ... in the after noon, we'll have more open discussion
- 00:20:58 [kaz]
- ... [Schedule]
- 00:21:00 [aYukiYoshida_]
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- 00:21:12 [kaz]
- ... (shows the agenda)
- 00:21:23 [kaz]
- ... any additions?
- 00:22:14 [kaz]
- ... [Resources]
- 00:22:21 [kaz]
- ... various links here
- 00:22:30 [kaz]
- ... btw, we have a new co-Chair, Pierre, here
- 00:23:01 [kaz]
- pal: involving standard activity, e.g., IETF
- 00:23:08 [kaz]
- ... started with HTML WG for W3C
- 00:23:20 [kaz]
- ... co-editor of TTML 1.0
- 00:23:32 [kaz]
- ... feel free to contact me and Chris (and Igarashi-san)
- 00:24:14 [kaz]
- cpn: would mention that Mark Vickers stepping down as a co-Chair
- 00:24:20 [kaz]
- remote+ Mark_Vickers
- 00:24:36 [kaz]
- cpn: has been leading the group successfully
- 00:24:49 [kaz]
- ... really getting the Web as the platform for media
- 00:25:02 [MarkVickers]
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- 00:25:13 [kaz]
- ... Mark will continue to participate in the MEIG
- 00:25:52 [kaz]
- mv: one of the founding co-Chairs
- 00:26:03 [kaz]
- ... plan to stay involved as an Invited Expert
- 00:26:22 [kaz]
- ... the best source consolidated expertise is media, video and audio
- 00:26:39 [kaz]
- ... before HTML5 media support in the Web
- 00:26:48 [kaz]
- ... we've been a good source
- 00:27:05 [kaz]
- ... for W3C, WHATWG, Kronos, etc.
- 00:27:16 [Youngsun_Ryu_]
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- 00:27:20 [kaz]
- ... we don't write specs ourselves
- 00:27:32 [kaz]
- ... but see what's the priority for media on the Web
- 00:27:38 [kaz]
- ... provide expertise
- 00:28:02 [yyuki]
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- 00:28:03 [kaz]
- ... communicate with media companies, etc., which are not in the W3C as well
- 00:28:19 [kaz]
- ... it takes a lot of work
- 00:28:23 [kaz]
- ... glad to help
- 00:28:39 [kaz]
- ... a lot of leadership in studio world
- 00:28:44 [kaz]
- ... and so on
- 00:28:55 [kaz]
- ... have three very strong co-Chairs
- 00:29:01 [kaz]
- ... and Pierre is joining
- 00:29:17 [kaz]
- ... aiming for HTML5 media 2.0
- 00:29:32 [kaz]
- ... this is really a time to better support for media
- 00:29:59 [kaz]
- ... Comcast, my company, provides a new rep
- 00:30:06 [kaz]
- jr: yes, I'm here
- 00:30:57 [kaz]
- topic: Hybridcast update
- 00:31:51 [kaz]
- -> https://app.box.com/s/gdgzwpnfqyzvjgts9me104ce6c3zfujv slides
- 00:32:00 [kaz]
- ikeo: welcome to Japan!
- 00:32:12 [kaz]
- ... would talk about Hybridcast
- 00:32:36 [kaz]
- ... [Today's outline]
- 00:32:38 [Lei]
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- 00:32:56 [kaz]
- ... recent achievement of hybridcast
- 00:33:17 [kaz]
- ... [Deployment status]
- 00:33:29 [kaz]
- ... [History of standardization and experiments]
- 00:33:40 [kaz]
- ... 2014-2019
- 00:34:02 [kaz]
- ... hybridcast connect deployed on some of the TV sets
- 00:34:21 [kaz]
- ... [Shipment of Hybridcast receivers]
- 00:34:55 [kaz]
- ... number of receivers over 10 million
- 00:35:06 [kaz]
- ... [Trial deployment "Hybridcast-Connect"
- 00:35:13 [lzhai]
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- 00:35:35 [kaz]
- ... what is hybridcast connect?
- 00:35:53 [kaz]
- ... new functions/services uses new APIs
- 00:36:12 [kaz]
- ... new APIs are experimentally implemented in some of the TV sets
- 00:36:18 [kaz]
- ... brought an example here
- 00:36:30 [kaz]
- ... a number of companies are involved
- 00:36:43 [kaz]
- ... [Typical Sequence by additional APIs]
- 00:36:54 [kaz]
- ... 5 functions
- 00:37:01 [kaz]
- ... 1. media availability API
- 00:37:17 [kaz]
- ... 2. ChannelsInfoAPI
- 00:37:24 [kaz]
- ... 3. StartAITAPI
- 00:37:29 [kaz]
- ... 4. TaskStatusAPI
- 00:37:34 [kaz]
- ... 5. ReceiverStatusAPI
- 00:37:45 [kaz]
- s/media availability API/MediaAvailabilityAPI/
- 00:37:54 [kaz]
- ... [Hybridcast Connect demo]
- 00:38:00 [kaz]
- ... will show a demo here
- 00:38:12 [kaz]
- ... (brings a TV set in front of the screen
- 00:38:45 [kaz]
- ... [Hybridcast-Connect demos]
- 00:38:48 [kaz]
- ... two demos
- 00:38:56 [kaz]
- ... 1 emergency alert
- 00:39:10 [kaz]
- ... 2. smooth guidance of catch-up
- 00:39:24 [kaz]
- ... [Supporsed use cases demo (1)]
- 00:40:21 [kaz]
- ... (Kaz adds webcam to webex)
- 00:40:45 [kaz]
- ... embedded buttons here on my PC
- 00:41:33 [kaz]
- ... press a button on the PC and get a notification on the smartphone
- 00:42:24 [kaz]
- @@: accessibility consideration?
- 00:42:42 [kaz]
- ... would be important
- 00:42:47 [kaz]
- ikeo: agree
- 00:43:06 [kaz]
- pal: API to TV? or smartphone?
- 00:43:23 [kaz]
- ikeo: pairing between TV and smartphone
- 00:43:40 [kaz]
- iga: depending on the TV's implementation
- 00:43:55 [kaz]
- ... possibly implemented as an application on the TV side
- 00:44:18 [kaz]
- ... the Hybridcast connect specification itself just specify the protocol
- 00:45:11 [kaz]
- yongjun: additional latency?
- 00:45:37 [kumekawa]
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- 00:45:41 [kaz]
- iga: remote control for playback, etc.?
- 00:45:55 [kaz]
- ikeo: go back to [Typical Sequence by additional APIs]
- 00:46:11 [kaz]
- ... explains the sequence of communication
- 00:46:20 [kaz]
- ... using websocket
- 00:46:26 [kaz]
- jongjun: how much latency there?
- 00:46:39 [kaz]
- ikeo: TV-set dependent
- 00:46:54 [kaz]
- iga: support all the functions?
- 00:47:02 [kaz]
- ikeo: some specific functions are supported
- 00:47:20 [kaz]
- iga: arrow keys are supported?
- 00:47:20 [kaz]
- ikeo: yes
- 00:48:14 [kaz]
- ... would like to support all the keys included in the TV remote
- 00:48:20 [kaz]
- iga: but there are too many buttons
- 00:48:48 [kaz]
- ikeo: also we need to consider security
- 00:49:04 [kaz]
- ... e.g., to avoid unexpected change of volume
- 00:49:34 [kaz]
- ... here, all the 5 APIs are implemented based on HTTP
- 00:50:33 [kaz]
- sudi: infra-red remote vs this API?
- 00:50:44 [kaz]
- ... what kind of values are added?
- 00:51:02 [kaz]
- pal: TV implements some specific capabilities
- 00:51:40 [kaz]
- iga: TV vendors have to implement the APIs
- 00:51:49 [kaz]
- lilin: @@@
- 00:52:01 [kaz]
- ikeo: more than two
- 00:52:05 [cpn]
- s/sudi/sudeep/
- 00:52:20 [cpn]
- s/@@@/how many TVs could be controlled?/
- 00:52:30 [inamori_]
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- 00:52:46 [kaz]
- ... we'd like to handle more than one TVs
- 00:53:10 [kaz]
- ... but TV vendors say hundreds of mobiles can't be connected
- 00:53:17 [kaz]
- ... maybe 2-3
- 00:53:49 [kaz]
- ikeo: TV is used within a local network
- 00:54:00 [kaz]
- ... user selects which would be the best one to get connected
- 00:54:24 [kaz]
- david: the system detects the devices available
- 00:54:24 [cpn]
- s/@@/david/
- 00:54:47 [kaz]
- ... is children notified?
- 00:54:51 [kaz]
- s/is/are/
- 00:55:10 [kaz]
- ikeo: application keep it stored in the session information
- 00:55:23 [kaz]
- ... the user don't have to mind
- 00:55:37 [kaz]
- pal: emergency notification itself is not included in the protocol
- 00:55:41 [kaz]
- ... its separate
- 00:55:45 [kaz]
- ikeo: right
- 00:55:55 [kaz]
- ... these 5 APIs implemented within the device
- 00:55:59 [kaz]
- ... so device APIs
- 00:56:05 [kaz]
- ... not Web PIs
- 00:56:24 [kaz]
- cpn: looking at secure protocol?
- 00:56:28 [kaz]
- ikeo: some solution
- 00:56:43 [kaz]
- ... we have two devices using some key
- 00:57:02 [kaz]
- cpn: second screen wg works on secure protocol
- 00:57:07 [kaz]
- ... so you're aware of that
- 00:57:09 [kaz]
- ikeo: right
- 00:57:18 [inamori_]
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- 00:57:29 [kaz]
- ... the problem is HTTPs in local network
- 00:58:02 [kaz]
- ... tx for your comments!
- 00:58:20 [kaz]
- ... [Supposed use cases demo (2)]
- 00:58:41 [kaz]
- ... implemented as a service like Netflix
- 00:59:04 [kaz]
- ... application selects a program from a list
- 00:59:12 [kaz]
- ... using just one API
- 00:59:43 [kaz]
- ... (select a program on his smartphone)
- 00:59:43 [MarkVickers]
- Q: What would the Hybridcast group like from W3C? New specs? Changes to specs?
- 01:00:11 [MarkVickers]
- Thx
- 01:00:29 [kaz]
- ikeo: launch the HTMl5 app
- 01:00:45 [kaz]
- ... using Dash.js
- 01:01:00 [kaz]
- iga: can control playback, forward/backward?
- 01:01:17 [kaz]
- ikeo: can be done using websocket
- 01:02:23 [MarkVickers]
- While it's always interesting to see what other groups are doing, we have to focus on our goals to drive changes into W3C and increase adoption of W3C standards outside of W3C.
- 01:02:45 [kaz]
- yongjun: device features can be controled?
- 01:02:51 [kaz]
- ikeo: some of the features
- 01:03:01 [kaz]
- youngjun: how many subscribers?
- 01:03:23 [kaz]
- ikeo: 30% of the TV sets include this feature
- 01:03:38 [kaz]
- cpn: what would the Hybridcast group like from W3C?
- 01:03:39 [JohnRiv]
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- 01:03:46 [kaz]
- ... new specs, gap analysis?
- 01:04:03 [kaz]
- ikeo: would like to combine some Hybridcast APIs to W3C standards
- 01:04:19 [kaz]
- ... e.g., playback API, as Igarashi-san mentioned
- 01:04:38 [kaz]
- ... between a mobile and a TV
- 01:05:14 [kaz]
- kaz: kind of like the formerly proposed TV control API?
- 01:05:20 [kaz]
- ikeo: yeah...
- 01:05:37 [kaz]
- cpn: or something like proposed by the second screen wg?
- 01:05:55 [kaz]
- ikeo: we have to select web standard APIs
- 01:06:12 [kaz]
- ... can't create another APIs ourselves
- 01:06:33 [kaz]
- ... that's the second demo
- 01:06:45 [kaz]
- ... [Conformance Test and verification]
- 01:06:56 [kaz]
- ... [Conformance Test for Hybridcast-Connect]
- 01:07:11 [kaz]
- s/Netflix/Netflix or Amazon Prime Video/
- 01:07:36 [kaz]
- ... IPTV Forum Japan provides hybridcast connect standard
- 01:07:40 [kaz]
- ... and also test kit
- 01:07:47 [kaz]
- ... this is the overview
- 01:07:51 [kaz]
- ... (shows a diagram)
- 01:08:17 [kaz]
- ... emulator as the test environment
- 01:08:52 [kaz]
- cpn: cover the Web application?
- 01:09:06 [kaz]
- ikeo: end-to-end test
- 01:09:19 [kaz]
- ... similar to the tests by HbbTV, etc.
- 01:09:38 [kaz]
- ... [Service Verification by MIC project and others]
- 01:10:03 [kaz]
- ... MIC is Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications from the Japanese Government
- 01:10:14 [kaz]
- ... service verification with Hybridcast-Connect
- 01:10:27 [kaz]
- ... in 2018 19 companies
- 01:10:32 [kaz]
- ... in 2019 23 companies
- 01:10:43 [kaz]
- ... that's it for Hybridcast update
- 01:10:49 [kaz]
- ... thank you!
- 01:11:12 [kaz]
- cpn: what other specific things to address the gaps?
- 01:11:23 [kaz]
- ... relationship with the Web platform test, etc.
- 01:11:37 [kaz]
- ikeo: we require some functions from Web APIs
- 01:11:57 [kaz]
- ... TV vendors sometimes want and sometimes not
- 01:12:14 [kaz]
- cpn: ok
- 01:12:22 [kaz]
- ... move on to the next topic
- 01:12:50 [kaz]
- topic: Media Timed Events in Hybridcast
- 01:13:07 [ken_]
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- 01:13:14 [kaz]
- ikeo: [Service Patterns with Hybridcast Connect]
- 01:13:56 [kaz]
- ... broadcasters in Japan need trigger message to switch to broadcast service
- 01:14:12 [kaz]
- ... pattern1: from mobile app to broadcasing on TV
- 01:14:30 [kaz]
- ... pattern2: from another app in TV to broadcasting
- 01:14:47 [kaz]
- ... [Media Timed Events with Hybridcast-Connect]
- 01:14:59 [kaz]
- ... JP broadcasters interested in media timed events
- 01:15:09 [kaz]
- ... same function as the trigger message
- 01:15:21 [kaz]
- ... there are two possible choices
- 01:15:38 [kaz]
- s/events/events (MTE)/
- 01:16:18 [kaz]
- ... (MTE data in video resource + push emergency alert notification) to the smartphone
- 01:16:38 [kaz]
- ... another option (MTE data in video resource to another app on TV)
- 01:16:53 [kaz]
- ... there are those two possible patterns
- 01:17:03 [kaz]
- cpn: is this emsg?
- 01:17:09 [kaz]
- ... in ISO container
- 01:17:14 [kaz]
- ... in the DASH format
- 01:17:17 [kaz]
- ikeo: yes
- 01:18:04 [kaz]
- iga: upper pattern can be realized using mobile API
- 01:18:20 [kaz]
- ... but what about the bottom pattern?
- 01:18:43 [kaz]
- ... is the TV device at the bottom same as the one on the right?
- 01:18:45 [kaz]
- ikeo: yes
- 01:19:23 [kaz]
- ... in the case of Android platform, the mechanism is something like intent
- 01:19:39 [kaz]
- iga: general question about MTE
- 01:19:57 [kaz]
- ... unclear why you want to embed events within the video stream
- 01:20:30 [kaz]
- ikeo: main reason is the cost of access the message API from mobile
- 01:20:36 [kaz]
- iga: cost of notification servers
- 01:20:42 [kaz]
- ikeo: right
- 01:20:53 [kaz]
- ... also the accuracy
- 01:21:17 [kaz]
- iga: do we share the same requirements?
- 01:21:47 [kaz]
- yongjun: which layer to be handled?
- 01:22:01 [kaz]
- ... should be fragment or manifest
- 01:22:20 [kaz]
- iga: manifest embedded event?
- 01:22:26 [kaz]
- ikeo: it depends on the needs
- 01:22:44 [atai]
- atai has joined #me
- 01:23:24 [kaz]
- ... in case of outbound, MTE might be written in the manifest
- 01:23:33 [kaz]
- ... and there would be possible delay
- 01:23:38 [YukiYoshida]
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- 01:23:45 [kaz]
- iga: could be updated frequently
- 01:24:03 [kaz]
- ikeo: related to cost of access transfer
- 01:24:24 [kaz]
- ... trade-off of accuracy and cost
- 01:24:34 [kaz]
- ... show another demo on MTE
- 01:25:05 [kaz]
- ... (select an app on his mobile)
- 01:25:21 [kaz]
- ... send a message using hybridcast-connect to the TV
- 01:25:34 [kaz]
- ... this is embedded event
- 01:25:48 [kaz]
- ... emergency alert shown on the upper-right of the TV
- 01:26:01 [kaz]
- cpn: intended to synchronization of media?
- 01:26:24 [kaz]
- ikeo: this mechanism just sends an alert
- 01:26:39 [kaz]
- ... and the Hybridcast application on the TV can handle how to display it
- 01:27:09 [kaz]
- ... [Usecases of MTE]
- 01:27:41 [kaz]
- ... switch broadcasting service from OTT triggered by emergency message
- 01:28:08 [kaz]
- ... super-impose time-dependent metadata, e.g., weather icon and event information
- 01:28:32 [kaz]
- ... new style of ad-insertion on a broadcasting service
- 01:28:48 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 01:28:53 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 01:28:53 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 01:29:06 [kaz]
- ... [MediaTimedEvents demos]
- 01:29:11 [kaz]
- ... demo implementations
- 01:29:43 [kaz]
- ... use case 1: switch live news program on braodcasting service from OTT service by emergency-warning message
- 01:30:47 [kaz]
- ... use case 2: super-impose a weather icon on the Internet video
- 01:30:52 [kaz]
- -> https://app.box.com/s/twutrrnnognzueecgcz1ojc7bqe5q9s9 slides
- 01:31:14 [kaz]
- cpn: what is the requirements?
- 01:31:24 [kaz]
- ikeo: would like to show the picture on the warning
- 01:31:53 [kaz]
- ... but sometimes overlaps with the important content (e.g., peoples faces)
- 01:32:04 [kaz]
- iga: depends on the apps
- 01:32:18 [kaz]
- ... for some apps, accuracy is not important
- 01:32:59 [kaz]
- ikeo: we have to consider the accuracy of timing for many cases
- 01:33:13 [kaz]
- ... that's all
- 01:33:20 [kaz]
- cpn: tx!
- 01:33:27 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 01:33:27 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 01:33:54 [tidoust]
- tidoust has joined #me
- 01:34:24 [kaz]
- ikeo: btw, we would like other devices, e.g., drones, from the app on TV
- 01:34:38 [kaz]
- ... during the WoT demo, we'll show home appliance demos
- 01:35:08 [kaz]
- kaz: at the lunch place, Argos
- 01:35:14 [kaz]
- ... and Wednesday breakout
- 01:35:25 [kaz]
- s/Argos/Argos on the 1st floor/
- 01:35:29 [kaz]
- cpn: excellent
- 01:35:42 [kaz]
- ikeo: we'd like to use MTE as the basis
- 01:35:57 [kaz]
- [break till 11am
- 01:36:02 [kaz]
- s/11am/11am]
- 01:36:11 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 01:36:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 01:37:32 [nr]
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- 02:08:35 [kaz]
- topic: Media Timed Events Task Force
- 02:09:03 [kaz]
- -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1f8LVFY3shrUsksKWLyBVQk3icDN4zEsgV0NX9oqPXNw/edit slides
- 02:09:05 [YukiYoshida]
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- 02:09:22 [MarkVickers]
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- 02:09:22 [kaz]
- cpn: [Topics]
- 02:09:29 [JohnRiv]
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- 02:09:36 [kumekawa]
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- 02:09:55 [kaz]
- ... in-band timed metadata and timed event support
- 02:10:16 [ShinyaAbe]
- ShinyaAbe has joined #me
- 02:10:26 [kaz]
- ... out-of band timed metadata
- 02:11:42 [kaz]
- ... improving synchronization of DOM events triggered on the media timeline
- 02:11:53 [kaz]
- ... also MPEG carriage of Web resources in ISO BMFF
- 02:12:26 [kaz]
- ... [History]
- 02:12:34 [kaz]
- ... our TF started in 2018
- 02:13:01 [ak]
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- 02:13:03 [kaz]
- ... Giri Mandyam from Qualcomm preesnted work at ATSC and MPEG on eventing
- 02:13:21 [kaz]
- ... published use cases and requirements document early this year
- 02:13:46 [kaz]
- ... [Use cases for timed metadata and in-band events]
- 02:13:56 [kaz]
- ... MPEG-DASH specific use cases
- 02:14:06 [kaz]
- ... notification to media player
- 02:14:24 [kaz]
- ... another use case about getting matrix during playback
- 02:14:56 [kaz]
- ... ID3 tags: title, artist, image URLs
- 02:15:23 [kaz]
- ... ad insertion cues: SCTE35, SCTE214-1, 2, 3
- 02:15:39 [kaz]
- ds: keeping web page in synch with media
- 02:15:47 [kaz]
- ... you got slides and talking about the slide
- 02:15:54 [kaz]
- ... flip the slide dec and showing
- 02:16:03 [kaz]
- cpn: we have something like that in the explainer
- 02:17:00 [kaz]
- pal: we heard another use case in the morning
- 02:17:17 [kaz]
- cpn: multiple contents and multiple events
- 02:17:37 [kaz]
- pal: do you know if the cues tied to entire content?
- 02:17:43 [kaz]
- ... somebody may remove the trigger
- 02:17:56 [kaz]
- cpn: emsg separately handles
- 02:18:10 [kaz]
- pal: can remove part of the content and it's still relevant
- 02:18:12 [kaz]
- cpn: right
- 02:18:33 [kaz]
- ... [Recommendations]
- 02:18:53 [kaz]
- ... allow web application to subscribe to event streams by event type
- 02:19:03 [kaz]
- ... discussion on type of event
- 02:19:20 [kaz]
- ... maybe some concern
- 02:19:29 [kaz]
- ... something we can discuss
- 02:19:43 [kaz]
- ... also allow web applications to create timed event/timed metadata cues
- 02:19:56 [kaz]
- ... including start time, end time and data payload
- 02:20:30 [nonoka]
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- 02:20:30 [kaz]
- iga: in the morning, we had some discussion on in-band message
- 02:20:45 [kaz]
- ... wondering if the current W3C standards support it
- 02:20:54 [kaz]
- ... only the scope could be in-band events?
- 02:21:22 [kaz]
- cpn: there are some implementations
- 02:21:26 [kaz]
- ... e.g., for HbbTV
- 02:21:34 [kaz]
- ... exposing MPD events
- 02:21:58 [kaz]
- ... W3C specs don't say anything about type of events
- 02:22:38 [kaz]
- ... next, actual triggering
- 02:22:42 [mam]
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- 02:22:55 [kaz]
- ... when cues are parsed from the media container by the UA
- 02:23:09 [kaz]
- ... when the current playback position reaches the cue start/end on the media timeline
- 02:23:49 [kaz]
- ... allow cues with unknow end time
- 02:24:18 [kaz]
- ... and finally
- 02:24:34 [kaz]
- ... improving synchronization (within 20 msec on media timeline)
- 02:25:23 [ken_]
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- 02:26:16 [suzuki]
- suzuki has joined #me
- 02:26:56 [kaz]
- ds: covers seeking?
- 02:27:11 [kaz]
- ... duration of events to be understood
- 02:27:23 [kaz]
- ... what would happen if jump-off?
- 02:27:30 [kaz]
- ... very hard to handle spike event
- 02:27:34 [kaz]
- s/event/events/
- 02:27:43 [kaz]
- cpn: some of that kind of use cases for DASH
- 02:27:54 [kaz]
- ... absolutely right
- 02:28:27 [kaz]
- iga: requirement might be can detect that kind of delay
- 02:28:44 [kaz]
- ... applications would know about the difference between specified timing and actual fired timing
- 02:28:56 [kaz]
- ... we need to improved the timing (if possible)
- 02:29:01 [kaz]
- ... but should identify the gap
- 02:29:10 [kaz]
- ... e.g., based on the timestamp
- 02:29:25 [kaz]
- cpn: [Current status]
- 02:29:30 [kaz]
- ... almost complete
- 02:29:51 [lilin_]
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- 02:29:56 [kaz]
- s/complete/complete Task Force use cases and requirements/
- 02:30:10 [kaz]
- ... WICG DataCue explainer in progress
- 02:30:55 [kaz]
- ... API spec not started yet
- 02:31:21 [kaz]
- david: need to revise DASH spec, etc.?
- 02:31:40 [kaz]
- cpn: we need to have discussion about what kind of mechanism is needed first
- 02:31:53 [kaz]
- ... do we ask the UA to give structured data, etc.
- 02:32:06 [kaz]
- ... question about how the different formats should match the need
- 02:32:22 [kaz]
- s/david/yongjun/
- 02:32:38 [kaz]
- mv: the issue is how to map particular data format
- 02:32:44 [kaz]
- ... and how to present it
- 02:32:51 [kaz]
- ... the reference by HTML5
- 02:32:56 [kaz]
- ... need to be updated
- 02:33:15 [kaz]
- ... based on the newest MPEG spec
- 02:33:18 [cpn]
- https://dev.w3.org/html5/html-sourcing-inband-tracks/
- 02:33:21 [kaz]
- ... maybe another form
- 02:33:26 [kaz]
- cpn: really interesting
- 02:33:40 [kaz]
- ... other things reference it
- 02:33:47 [kaz]
- ... URL spec
- 02:34:03 [kaz]
- ... not really standardized
- 02:34:27 [kaz]
- ... definitely right we need handle it
- 02:34:40 [kaz]
- ... in more standardized shape
- 02:34:43 [kaz]
- mv: another question
- 02:34:55 [kaz]
- ... data cue was implemented in webkit before HTML5
- 02:35:00 [cpn]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/media-frags/
- 02:35:43 [kaz]
- mv: concern about syntax and semantics
- 02:36:05 [kaz]
- cpn: don't know the answer now
- 02:36:18 [kaz]
- ... a session by the Media WG will be held
- 02:36:35 [kaz]
- mv: sounds like a right place
- 02:36:55 [kaz]
- cpn: [MPEG Carriage of Web Resources in ISO-BMFF Containers]
- 02:37:01 [kaz]
- ... saw TAG advice
- 02:37:43 [kaz]
- ... since then people working on MPEG as ISO/IEC FDIS 23001-15
- 02:37:56 [kaz]
- ds: probably public
- 02:38:53 [kaz]
- cpn: this topic is welcome to the MEIG
- 02:39:24 [kaz]
- ds: good to have a workshop including the MEIG, ISO, etc.
- 02:39:40 [kaz]
- ... trying to get users of technology at the same time at the same place
- 02:39:51 [kaz]
- ... including security experts
- 02:40:03 [kaz]
- pal: what is the use case?
- 02:40:07 [kaz]
- ds: two things
- 02:40:23 [kaz]
- .. carriage of web pages
- 02:40:53 [kaz]
- ... synchronization of media
- 02:41:03 [kaz]
- pal: but what would be the actual business cases?
- 02:41:31 [MarkVickers]
- FYI, we have previously gotten permission from MPEG to host MPEG documents on the W3C member-only website. We could ask for MPEG for permission to host CMAF spec for this purpose.
- 02:41:33 [kaz]
- ... btw, the community draft is available
- 02:41:42 [kaz]
- s/... btw/pal: btw/
- 02:42:03 [kaz]
- iga: benefit of web resource embedded to MPEG
- 02:42:22 [kaz]
- ... possibly reduce the cost for the web servers
- 02:42:27 [kaz]
- ... could be beneficial
- 02:43:02 [kaz]
- pal: the offline case is weird to me
- 02:43:23 [kaz]
- iga: one of the use cases to be addressed
- 02:43:29 [kaz]
- ... there are some offline use cases
- 02:43:35 [kaz]
- ... packaged delivery
- 02:43:45 [kaz]
- s/packaged/for packaged/
- 02:44:01 [suzuki]
- suzuki has joined #me
- 02:44:41 [kaz]
- cpn: [Browser support for DataCue]
- 02:44:48 [kaz]
- ... current support by browsers
- 02:45:07 [kaz]
- ... edge: HTML 5.1 DataCue attribute ArrayBuffer data;
- 02:45:17 [kaz]
- ... chrome: no support
- 02:45:23 [kaz]
- ... safari: supported
- 02:45:27 [kaz]
- ... firefox: no support
- 02:45:51 [kaz]
- ... HbbTV: HTL 5.1 (8 Oct 2015 ED) DataCue with native handling of player specific events
- 02:46:02 [kaz]
- ... [Player support for DASH and HLS events]
- 02:46:54 [kaz]
- ... Shaka Player: shaka.Player.EmsgEvent no internal handling of manifest refresh events.
- 02:47:04 [kaz]
- ... (some more examples)
- 02:47:11 [kaz]
- ... [Next steps]
- 02:47:27 [kaz]
- ... breakout session on Wednesday about "DataCue API and time marches on in HTML"
- 02:47:39 [kaz]
- s/HTML"/HTML" at 11:00am/
- 02:48:01 [kaz]
- ... raise issues against WHATWG HTML to propose changes to time marches on
- 02:49:07 [kaz]
- mw: may have people aware of the algorithm
- 02:49:22 [kaz]
- ... during the Media WG meeting
- 02:49:38 [kaz]
- s/media WG meeting/breakout/
- 02:49:45 [kaz]
- iga: in scope of the Meida WG?
- 02:49:49 [kaz]
- cpn: right
- 02:50:05 [kaz]
- ... the Media WG would take on standardization if the direction is correct
- 02:50:24 [kaz]
- ... we started a TF within MEIG and now are looking at WICG
- 02:50:52 [kaz]
- iga: any friction?
- 02:51:04 [kaz]
- cpn: we're looking at the possible API design
- 02:51:23 [kaz]
- iga: what I remember from the previous TPAC
- 02:51:42 [kaz]
- ... we were looking at WICG
- 02:51:49 [kaz]
- ... but what would be the direction now?
- 02:51:58 [kaz]
- cpn: we don't have enough input
- 02:52:12 [kaz]
- ... need more concrete feedback for the possible API
- 02:52:22 [kaz]
- ... in JavaScript at the moment
- 02:52:33 [kaz]
- ... would be good to have more involvement
- 02:52:45 [kaz]
- ... also would be good to have more browser vendors
- 02:52:57 [kaz]
- ... need to have wider discussion
- 02:53:34 [kaz]
- ... if we proposed issues, that should go to WHATWG
- 02:53:49 [kaz]
- ... increasing timing accuracy
- 02:53:56 [kaz]
- ... [References]
- 02:54:03 [kaz]
- ... (links to resources)
- 02:54:09 [kaz]
- iga: WICG would have their meeting?
- 02:54:15 [kaz]
- cpn: Thu/Fri
- 02:54:31 [kaz]
- ... also we have a breakout session ourselves
- 02:54:40 [kaz]
- iga: it's good timing to have discussion with them
- 02:55:05 [kaz]
- ... should ask the other participants about opinions as well
- 02:55:30 [kaz]
- ... need to get opinions from the MEIG guys
- 02:55:40 [kaz]
- pal: when would be our final report available?
- 02:56:14 [kaz]
- ... more input needed?
- 02:56:30 [kaz]
- ... anybody have any specific objections?
- 02:56:49 [kaz]
- iga: we have not specifically asked the MEIG for opnions
- 02:56:55 [kaz]
- s/opnions/opinions/
- 02:57:07 [kaz]
- ... report itself is about requirements
- 02:57:17 [kaz]
- ... it's an IG Note. right?
- 02:57:19 [kaz]
- cpn: yes
- 02:57:50 [kaz]
- pal: the report says something is missing and to be added?
- 02:58:08 [kaz]
- ... shouldn't say that explicitly?
- 02:58:22 [kaz]
- cpn: solution design to be done by WICG
- 02:59:08 [kaz]
- ... our TF could continue editorial changes
- 02:59:38 [kaz]
- ... everybody, please join in
- 02:59:45 [kaz]
- topic: CTA WAVE update
- 02:59:53 [sangwhan]
- sangwhan has joined #me
- 03:00:27 [sangwhan]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 03:00:27 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html sangwhan
- 03:00:44 [kaz]
- (we're delayed by 30mins)
- 03:01:10 [kaz]
- -> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-mAhZe8s2TRDygCW1fPc-aJkvA1yCTH1/view?usp=sharing slides
- 03:01:37 [yyuki]
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- 03:01:50 [yyuki]
- yyuki has joined #me
- 03:02:07 [kaz]
- jr: John Riviello from Comcast
- 03:02:32 [kaz]
- ... quick update on CTA WAVE
- 03:02:40 [tidoust]
- tidoust has joined #me
- 03:02:42 [kaz]
- ... [The Web Appliction Video Ecosystem Project]
- 03:02:54 [kaz]
- ... aims, focuses, ...
- 03:03:05 [kaz]
- ... [Supporting a fragmented OTT world]
- 03:03:20 [kaz]
- ... fragmentation impacts content providers and device makers
- 03:03:29 [kaz]
- ... [Brief history]
- 03:03:42 [kaz]
- ... CEA initiated the GIVE project in 2015
- 03:03:57 [kaz]
- ... CEA becomes CTA in Nov. 2015
- 03:04:10 [kaz]
- ... [Steering Committee]
- 03:04:26 [kaz]
- ... technical WG
- 03:04:40 [kaz]
- ... CSTF for content specification
- 03:04:50 [kaz]
- ... DPCTF for testable requirements
- 03:05:04 [kaz]
- ... HATF for reference application framework
- 03:05:26 [kaz]
- ... [WAVE bridges media standards & web standards]
- 03:05:34 [kaz]
- ... [Curent WAVE Membership]
- 03:05:37 [kaz]
- ... many members
- 03:05:47 [kaz]
- ... overlapping with W3C Members
- 03:05:54 [kaz]
- ... [What is the Common...]
- 03:06:04 [kaz]
- ... [WAVE COntent Spec & Published CMAF Media Profiles]
- 03:06:20 [kaz]
- ... [Media Profile Approval]
- 03:06:40 [kaz]
- ... profiles are added
- 03:06:49 [kaz]
- ... typically updated once a year
- 03:07:02 [kaz]
- ... [WAVE Content Specification 2018 AMD 1 - Video Profiles]
- 03:07:23 [kaz]
- ... [WAVE Content Spec 2018 AMD 1 - Audio Profiles]
- 03:07:24 [tidoust]
- tidoust has joined #me
- 03:07:37 [kaz]
- ... [WAVE Programs and Live Linear...]
- 03:07:48 [kaz]
- ... [Anticipated WAVE Content Spec 2019 Updates]
- 03:07:59 [kaz]
- ... [Test SUite: COntent Verification Tool]
- 03:08:06 [kaz]
- ... verification content
- 03:08:29 [kaz]
- ... shared with DASH-IF conformance validator
- 03:08:37 [kaz]
- ... [CSTF - Specification Process]
- 03:08:45 [kaz]
- ... annual f2f meeting
- 03:08:48 [kaz]
- ... [Links]
- 03:08:57 [kaz]
- ... links for resources
- 03:09:04 [kaz]
- ... [HATF: HTML5 API...]
- 03:09:10 [kaz]
- ... What We Do in the HATF]
- 03:09:20 [kaz]
- ... playback audio-video media
- 03:09:52 [kaz]
- ... [HATF Work Plan]
- 03:10:00 [kaz]
- ... W3C Web Media API CG
- 03:10:22 [kaz]
- ... [HTML5 APIs: Reference Platform]
- 03:10:33 [kaz]
- ... one content format but multiple devices
- 03:10:40 [kaz]
- ... [HATF Specs]
- 03:10:44 [kaz]
- ... snapshots
- 03:10:52 [kaz]
- ... Web Media API snapshop (WMAS)
- 03:11:12 [kaz]
- ... CTA and W3C co-publishing
- 03:11:21 [kaz]
- iga: what do you mean?
- 03:11:30 [kaz]
- jr: working on the same document
- 03:11:44 [kaz]
- iga: not WG but CG?
- 03:12:02 [kaz]
- ... it's not "W3C Recommendation" but "CG Report"
- 03:14:19 [hfuji_]
- hfuji_ has joined #me
- 03:14:21 [kaz]
- fd: fyi, there will be discussion about W3C process during this week
- 03:14:29 [kaz]
- ab: part of the plenary
- 03:14:39 [kaz]
- s/plenary/plenary on Wednesday/
- 03:14:54 [kaz]
- jr: [Anticipated Web Media API 2019 Snapshot Updates]
- 03:15:03 [kaz]
- ... update to ECMAScript 7
- 03:15:12 [kaz]
- ... CSS snapshot 2018
- 03:15:30 [kaz]
- ... [HATF Testing Framework]
- 03:15:33 [MarkVickers]
- FYI on referencing WAVE specs: ATSC references the WAVE WMAS as published by CTA, which is referencable. The W3C version of the WMAS spec, like all CG specs, includes boilerplate language that it should not be referenced.
- 03:15:38 [kaz]
- ... WMAS Testing Suite Updates]
- 03:16:09 [kaz]
- ... [Abstracted Device Playback Model]
- 03:16:27 [kaz]
- ... (skips some slides)
- 03:16:35 [kaz]
- ... [Spec Highlights and Outline Dec 2018]
- 03:16:51 [kaz]
- ... [Promisses in Spec for 2019 and beyond]
- 03:17:07 [kaz]
- ... [Test Sutie: RFPs]
- 03:17:19 [kaz]
- ... [Q&A]
- 03:17:24 [kaz]
- ... questions?
- 03:17:38 [kaz]
- iga: what are you going to talk about "type1 player"?
- 03:17:59 [kaz]
- ... any room for W3C standardization?
- 03:18:27 [kaz]
- ... if you have any specific requirements, the MEIG can discuss that
- 03:18:43 [kaz]
- ... btw, what is the "Content Model Format"?
- 03:20:05 [kaz]
- cpn: question around testing
- 03:20:19 [kaz]
- ... is the work related to the web platform testing?
- 03:20:53 [kaz]
- pal: should we put that on the agenda for the afternoon?
- 03:20:57 [kaz]
- all: ok
- 03:21:20 [kaz]
- topic: Review open issues
- 03:21:39 [kaz]
- cpn: we use GitHub to manage issues
- 03:22:03 [kaz]
- ... most of the issues will be covered in the afternoon jointly with the other WGs
- 03:22:22 [kaz]
- ... but one specific issue here about frame accurate synchronization and seeking
- 03:24:33 [kaz]
- fd: [Related GitHub Issues]
- 03:24:41 [kaz]
- ... issue 4, 5, 21
- 03:25:00 [kaz]
- ... the main issue is #4 frame accurate seeking of HTML5 MediaElement
- 03:25:13 [kaz]
- ... [Categories of Us ecases]
- 03:25:23 [kaz]
- s/Us ecases/Use cases/
- 03:25:29 [kaz]
- ... 2 different use cases
- 03:25:36 [kaz]
- ... seeking and rendering
- 03:25:52 [kaz]
- ... [Main Seeking Use Cases]
- 03:26:00 [kaz]
- ... non-linear edition in a browser
- 03:26:32 [kaz]
- ... can be cloud-based
- 03:26:53 [kaz]
- ... collaborative review
- 03:27:08 [kaz]
- ... evidence playback by camera and video
- 03:27:23 [kaz]
- ... [Seeking Gaps]
- 03:27:39 [kaz]
- ... currentTime is not precise enough to identify individual frames
- 03:28:20 [kaz]
- ... also no way to seek to the next/prev frame in the generic case
- 03:28:27 [kaz]
- ... just matter of time
- 03:28:40 [kaz]
- ... when is going to be the next frame
- 03:29:05 [kaz]
- ... [Main Rendering Use Cases]
- 03:29:34 [kaz]
- ... dynamic content insertion (splicing)
- 03:29:56 [kaz]
- ... video overlays
- 03:30:58 [kaz]
- ... media playback synchronized with map animations
- 03:31:09 [kaz]
- ... synchronization between audio and timed text, e.g., karaoke
- 03:31:21 [kaz]
- ... synchonized playback across users/devices
- 03:31:58 [kaz]
- iga: requirements for time seeking?
- 03:32:09 [kaz]
- fd: this is rather rendering issues
- 03:32:21 [kaz]
- pal: sample alignment and duration
- 03:32:48 [kaz]
- pal: current web platform doesn't allow frame-accurate timing
- 03:32:58 [kaz]
- fd: [Rendering Gaps]
- 03:33:10 [kaz]
- ... currentTime is not precise enough to identify individual frames
- 03:33:35 [kaz]
- ... also timestampOffset is not precise to identify frame boundaries
- 03:33:49 [kaz]
- ... it's hard to track media timeline frame by frame
- 03:34:02 [kaz]
- ... in any case there is no mechanism to handle frame accuracy
- 03:34:28 [kaz]
- ... also synchronization between video and audio
- 03:34:41 [kaz]
- ... if you look at global synchronization
- 03:35:07 [kaz]
- ... no way to tie the rendering of a video frame to the local wall clock
- 03:35:31 [MarkVickers]
- Following up on earlier question: It has always been the intention of WAVE to contribute back to W3C any new tests and also any changes to the W3C test runner. WAVE representatives met with the W3C test group at TPAC 2018. There was an issue opened on April 2, 2019: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/issues/16214 There was a PR entered on June 12, 2019: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/rfcs/pull/23
- 03:36:19 [kaz]
- [lunch till 1:30pm]
- 03:36:26 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 03:36:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 03:43:32 [MO_]
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- 03:58:48 [ericc]
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- 04:23:36 [lilin]
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- 04:30:35 [yyuki]
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- 04:31:02 [tidoust]
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- 04:32:56 [MO]
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- 04:33:49 [kaz]
- present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Tatsuya_Igarashi, Andreas_Tai, John_Riviello, Chris_Needham, Pierre_Lemieux, Gary_Katsevman, Scott_Low, Greg_Freedman, Mark_Watson, Eric_Siow, Sudeep_Divakaran, Li_Lin, Xu_Song, Youngsun_Ryu, Hiroshi_Fujisawa, Masaya_Ikeo
- 04:33:57 [takio]
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- 04:34:34 [suzuki]
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- 04:34:38 [kumekawa]
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- 04:34:41 [kaz]
- topic: Future directions for media on the web
- 04:34:57 [kaz]
- -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YNMt_opIT8B5niUvYGsgjuaLOsElxDHxQw31f3eI7fM/edit slides
- 04:35:05 [ken]
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- 04:35:06 [Joshue108]
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- 04:35:07 [kaz]
- cpn: [M&E IG Recommendations]
- 04:35:14 [Joshue108]
- present+
- 04:35:16 [YukiYoshida]
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- 04:35:19 [ak]
- ak has joined #me
- 04:35:29 [kaz]
- s/topic: Future directions for media on the web//
- 04:35:32 [horiuchi]
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- 04:35:49 [ak]
- ak has joined #me
- 04:35:55 [kaz]
- topic: Frame accuracy synchronization (contd)
- 04:36:05 [kaz]
- s|-> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YNMt_opIT8B5niUvYGsgjuaLOsElxDHxQw31f3eI7fM/edit slides||
- 04:36:15 [kaz]
- fd: continue the slides
- 04:36:34 [kaz]
- s/cpn: [M&E IG Recommendations]//
- 04:36:44 [kaz]
- fd: [Rendering Gaps that Remain]
- 04:36:55 [hfuji]
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- 04:36:56 [kaz]
- ... currentTime is not precise enough
- 04:37:04 [kaz]
- ... timestampOffset is not precise enough
- 04:37:22 [kaz]
- ... three following requirements deleted
- 04:37:30 [kaz]
- ... [Seeking Gaps that remain]
- 04:37:35 [kaz]
- ... [Next Steps?]
- 04:37:43 [kaz]
- ... what do we want to do?
- 04:38:58 [kaz]
- ... follow up on MTE recommendations around synchronization? who?
- 04:39:06 [samira]
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- 04:39:20 [kaz]
- ... wrete a UCR document on frame accurate synch? who?
- 04:39:33 [kaz]
- ... feed needs back into WHATWG and Media WG? who?
- 04:39:59 [kaz]
- ... different possible groups to bring ideas to
- 04:40:22 [kaz]
- ... possibly machine learning group?
- 04:40:46 [kaz]
- ... discussion with different people on Wednesday
- 04:41:08 [kaz]
- cpn: production use cases?
- 04:41:09 [Youngsun_Ryu]
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- 04:41:17 [kaz]
- pal: put together a presentation
- 04:41:30 [kaz]
- ... what's happening about a lot professional asset
- 04:41:44 [hfuji]
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- 04:41:53 [atai]
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- 04:41:57 [kaz]
- ... have some demo as well
- 04:42:35 [kaz]
- mw: the problem is probably how to identify individual frame
- 04:42:59 [nakakura]
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- 04:43:09 [kaz]
- ... could be ended up with overlaps
- 04:43:20 [kaz]
- cpn: we need rationale
- 04:44:07 [kaz]
- iga: (asks new comers to sing up with the attendees list)
- 04:44:17 [MasayaIkeo]
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- 04:44:18 [kaz]
- ... btw, this proposal includes two different points
- 04:44:35 [kaz]
- ... because the difficulty for realization is quite different
- 04:44:59 [kaz]
- ... depending on theperformance of the browsers and the hardware
- 04:45:30 [MarkVickers]
- present+ MarkVickers
- 04:45:39 [kaz]
- fd: maybe write two documents or might be simply continue discussion
- 04:46:10 [kaz]
- ... there are different use cases
- 04:46:20 [kaz]
- ... some of them might be out of scope
- 04:46:24 [ReinaldoFerraz_]
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- 04:46:51 [kaz]
- pal: sound and video synchronization is a use case
- 04:47:00 [kaz]
- ... not even possible currently
- 04:47:11 [kaz]
- ... there is no API for that purpose today
- 04:47:24 [kaz]
- iga: that requirement is related to time seeking
- 04:47:40 [kaz]
- ... different from synchronization itself
- 04:47:56 [kaz]
- pal: when you say "seeking", it's API level. right?
- 04:48:26 [kaz]
- iga: currently there is no way for requirements to specify how quickly browsers should behave
- 04:48:29 [hfuji]
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- 04:49:02 [kaz]
- pal: it's largely implementation-dependent?
- 04:49:05 [kaz]
- iga: yeah
- 04:49:23 [kaz]
- ... current time issue and synchronization are different issues
- 04:49:42 [kaz]
- ... wonder if any other W3C specs handle that kind of performance
- 04:49:47 [ak]
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- 04:49:57 [kaz]
- ... how fast browsers are expected to render the data
- 04:50:09 [kaz]
- ... we need to talk about performance
- 04:50:24 [kaz]
- pal: sounds like you're interested in making contribution :)
- 04:51:36 [JohnRiv]
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- 04:52:17 [kaz]
- yongjun: need some mechanism to handle frame jumping
- 04:52:34 [kaz]
- ... not only at the beginning
- 04:52:47 [kaz]
- ... if we care about one case, we may miss another case
- 04:53:02 [kaz]
- iga: ad-insertion seamlessly?
- 04:53:41 [kaz]
- ... accuracy of seeking is important for many use cases
- 04:54:04 [kaz]
- ... but we should distinguish time seeking accuracy
- 04:54:25 [hfuji]
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- 04:54:47 [kaz]
- pal: if there is a stream and also another stream starts, in that case, need for frame accuracy
- 04:54:52 [kaz]
- iga: that's true
- 04:55:23 [kaz]
- topic: Professional media workflows on the web
- 04:55:26 [kaz]
- pal: very timely topic
- 04:55:32 [kaz]
- ... proposal by MovieLabs
- 04:55:49 [kaz]
- ... increasing popularity
- 04:56:05 [kaz]
- ... [Web applications are coming to profesisonal media workflows]
- 04:56:07 [kaz]
- ... why?
- 04:56:12 [mam]
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- 04:56:19 [kaz]
- ... web applications have become mainstream
- 04:56:31 [kaz]
- ... web platform media capabilities are tantalizingly close
- 04:57:01 [kaz]
- ... profesisonal audiovisual assets are moving to the cloud
- 04:57:12 [kaz]
- ... [Why move audio-visual assets to the cloud?]
- 04:57:59 [kaz]
- .. instead of using UPS
- 04:58:10 [kaz]
- ... now available immediately on the cloud
- 04:58:31 [kaz]
- ... it's more secure actually
- 04:58:42 [kaz]
- ... and of course more efficient
- 04:58:44 [kaz]
- ... [Today]
- 04:59:20 [kaz]
- ... previsualization, visual effects, grading, editing, localization, mastering, qualit check, archival, distribution
- 04:59:28 [kaz]
- ... [tomorrow]
- 04:59:54 [kaz]
- ... all of them will be on the cloud (and can be accessed via web applications)
- 05:00:03 [kaz]
- ... [demo]
- 05:00:12 [kaz]
- ... ownzones
- 05:00:22 [kaz]
- ... content already on the cloud
- 05:01:26 [kaz]
- ... there is an editor here
- 05:01:33 [kaz]
- ... (for audio and timed text)
- 05:01:50 [kaz]
- ... (going back to the presentation)
- 05:02:04 [kaz]
- ... [Some steps of the workflow remain out of reach of web applications]
- 05:02:13 [kaz]
- ... gaps exist in the web platform
- 05:02:20 [kaz]
- ... what's missing?
- 05:02:26 [kaz]
- ... that's it
- 05:02:55 [kaz]
- cpn: we have many items, so don't want to dive into the details
- 05:03:46 [kaz]
- yongsun: as far as I know, people use MSE
- 05:04:07 [kaz]
- s/youngsun/yongjun/
- 05:04:20 [kaz]
- iga: video editing using browser
- 05:04:39 [kaz]
- ... requirements for rendering related to multiple video clipping
- 05:04:59 [kaz]
- ... handle frames seamlessly
- 05:05:12 [kaz]
- pal: we need volunteers
- 05:05:46 [kaz]
- mw: not volunteering myself but support the use cases
- 05:05:50 [NJ_]
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- 05:06:24 [kaz]
- scott: folks here might want to consider local context
- 05:06:27 [kaz]
- s/context/content/
- 05:06:36 [kaz]
- iga: local content using browser?
- 05:06:46 [kaz]
- scott: not necessarily on the cloud
- 05:07:11 [kaz]
- ... how to handle frame accuracy on the local devices
- 05:07:23 [kaz]
- pal: help document the issues?
- 05:07:34 [kaz]
- ... take a first step
- 05:07:43 [kaz]
- ... somebody needs to take the lead
- 05:08:05 [kaz]
- ... this is listing the current issues
- 05:08:34 [kaz]
- gary: interested
- 05:08:56 [kaz]
- cpn: thank you
- 05:09:52 [kaz]
- @@: gathering data
- 05:09:58 [kaz]
- ... we have a few ideas
- 05:10:12 [kaz]
- ... one of them is adding attribute to video tags
- 05:10:25 [kaz]
- ... somebody from Google also proposed media container
- 05:10:34 [kaz]
- ... my first question is
- 05:10:48 [kaz]
- ... would you have any thoughts
- 05:10:56 [kaz]
- ... will host a session on Wednesday
- 05:11:21 [kaz]
- cpn: related to content representation
- 05:12:17 [kaz]
- ... quite a lot of valuables
- 05:12:22 [kaz]
- s/@@/samira/
- 05:12:31 [Joshue108]
- q?
- 05:12:47 [kaz]
- cpn: we'll talk about caption later
- 05:12:51 [yos]
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- 05:13:03 [kaz]
- andreas: where to standardize 360 video, etc.
- 05:13:08 [igarashi]
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- 05:13:17 [kaz]
- ... we have a presentation on that later in the afternoon
- 05:13:27 [kaz]
- ... also a session on Wednesday
- 05:13:44 [kaz]
- ... possibly tomorrow as well
- 05:14:05 [kaz]
- cpn: anybody aware of MPEG format update?
- 05:14:12 [kaz]
- ds: whole bunch of work
- 05:15:17 [tidoust]
- https://mpeg.chiariglione.org/standards/mpeg-i/omnidirectional-media-format
- 05:15:20 [dsinger]
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- 05:15:21 [scottlow]
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- 05:15:25 [scottlow]
- https://mpeg.chiariglione.org/standards/mpeg-i
- 05:15:30 [markw]
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- 05:15:30 [dsinger]
- https://mpeg.chiariglione.org
- 05:15:46 [kaz]
- andread: TTWG has liaison with MPEG
- 05:15:55 [kaz]
- ... but just one part of scenarios
- 05:16:00 [kaz]
- ... inband information
- 05:16:12 [Song]
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- 05:16:12 [kaz]
- ... doesn't sort the issues about outband captionning
- 05:16:19 [kaz]
- s/nning/ning/
- 05:16:28 [kaz]
- s/andread/andreas/
- 05:16:44 [Joshue108]
- There are also accessibility requirements around how 360 is standardised.
- 05:16:54 [kaz]
- andreas: possibly discuss that tomorrow?
- 05:17:00 [kaz]
- samira: possible
- 05:17:25 [kaz]
- ... how many content producers, providers, here?
- 05:17:29 [kaz]
- ... what block you?
- 05:17:39 [kaz]
- song: China Mobile
- 05:18:04 [kaz]
- iga: VR content protection?
- 05:18:12 [kaz]
- samira: can be represented as VR
- 05:18:24 [kaz]
- ... magic window scenario
- 05:18:44 [kaz]
- ... just wanted to bring this discussion up
- 05:18:57 [kaz]
- cpn: what's the natural home for this discussion?
- 05:19:08 [kaz]
- ... first candidate is Timed Text
- 05:19:32 [kaz]
- samira: just wanted to share the ideas since this is an IG
- 05:19:55 [kaz]
- josue: possibl multimodal information
- 05:20:10 [kaz]
- andreas: would like to come back later in the afternoon
- 05:20:18 [kaz]
- ... where to do it
- 05:20:27 [kaz]
- ... really difficult to find a right place
- 05:20:47 [kaz]
- cpn: related to accessibility
- 05:21:57 [kaz]
- sudeep: Chair of the Web&Networks IG
- 05:22:05 [kaz]
- ... will have our meeting tomorrow
- 05:22:09 [kaz]
- ... please drop by
- 05:22:22 [kaz]
- ... interested in Media Timed Event as well
- 05:22:26 [kaz]
- ... network latency
- 05:22:38 [kaz]
- ... very happy to give inputs
- 05:22:48 [kaz]
- cpn: interesting questions
- 05:23:01 [kaz]
- ... very close relationship with this group
- 05:23:10 [Joshue108]
- s/josue: possibl multimodal information/Josh: There are accessibility requirements if 360 is to be standardised, around an architecture that will support accessibiity and multimodal requirements.
- 05:23:56 [kaz]
- cpn: having a Web interface
- 05:24:36 [kaz]
- ... webrtc stream for multiple different sources
- 05:24:50 [kaz]
- ... it is stuff we've been implementing
- 05:25:12 [kaz]
- ... not necessarily synchronized with each other
- 05:25:46 [kaz]
- sudeep: how should we bring back?
- 05:25:52 [kaz]
- cpn: GitHub issues
- 05:25:59 [kaz]
- ... also we have monthly IG calls
- 05:26:20 [kaz]
- ... have media-related topics
- 05:26:58 [kaz]
- josh: particular accessibility issue in synch with video stream
- 05:27:06 [kaz]
- cpn: yeah
- 05:27:12 [kaz]
- josh: bunch of stuff
- 05:27:33 [Joshue108]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Accessible_RTC_Use_Cases
- 05:27:39 [kaz]
- ... can put resource on what I'm working on (above)
- 05:27:56 [kaz]
- s/... can/josh: can/
- 05:28:02 [kaz]
- ... related to this group
- 05:29:33 [kaz]
- ... different modality channels based on user's preference, TTS, braille, etc.
- 05:30:02 [kaz]
- (kaz remembers the MMI Architecture and SCXML :)
- 05:30:20 [kaz]
- cpn: any other issues?
- 05:30:24 [kaz]
- iga: local packaging?
- 05:30:33 [kaz]
- ... publishing group is working on packaged media
- 05:30:53 [pal]
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- 05:31:07 [kaz]
- ... playback locally
- 05:31:15 [pal]
- pal has joined #me
- 05:31:20 [kaz]
- ... on a local storage
- 05:31:25 [kaz]
- ... might be with very high resolution of time
- 05:31:40 [kaz]
- cpn: seems we need another gap analysis
- 05:32:11 [tidoust]
- [Note the breakout session on Web Packaging planned on Wednesday: https://w3c.github.io/tpac-breakouts/sessions.html#wpack ]
- 05:33:03 [kaz]
- topic: bullet Chatting
- 05:33:14 [kaz]
- song: Song Xu from China Mobile
- 05:33:26 [kaz]
- ... would give a presentation about bullet chatting
- 05:33:38 [kaz]
- ... Michael from Dwango as well
- 05:34:10 [cpn]
- https://w3c.github.io/danmaku/index_en.html
- 05:34:20 [kaz]
- -> https://w3c.github.io/danmaku/index_en.html proposal
- 05:34:56 [kaz]
- scribenick: tidoust
- 05:35:05 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 05:35:05 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 05:35:35 [chcunningham]
- chcunningham has joined #me
- 05:35:58 [kaz]
- iwelcome and let's get started/scribenick: kaz/
- 05:36:18 [kaz]
- s/Welcome and introduction/topic: Welcome and introduction/
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- Joshue108 has joined #me
- 05:36:22 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 05:36:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 05:36:34 [tidoust]
- song: Interactive tool for video broadcasting over the Internet. Use cases: see reviews of group users. Real-time interaction, engagement for young generation, to show social presence.
- 05:37:14 [tidoust]
- ... Implementation is difficult because you need to compute the positioning and animation of bullet chatting, rendered in DOM or Canvas and overlaid on top of the video.
- 05:37:24 [tidoust]
- ... Strong demand for this type of applications, particularly in Asia
- 05:37:56 [tidoust]
- ... Standardization would improve UX, reduce the difficulty in implementation.
- 05:38:13 [tidoust]
- ... We suggest to define a standard format for bullet curtain.
- 05:40:05 [tidoust]
- ... We started an analysis to identify gaps. No specific API introduced for the time being.
- 05:40:34 [tidoust]
- ... Bullet chatting is basically floating text over the screen with four attributes:
- 05:40:55 [tidoust]
- ... mode, basic properties, timeline, and container (typically the video)
- 05:41:28 [tidoust]
- ... [going through Bullet Chatting Proposal document]
- 05:42:18 [tidoust]
- ... During streaming, two main ways to present: chatting room or bullet chatting.
- 05:43:02 [kaz]
- i/cpn: welcome and let's get started/scribenick: kaz/
- 05:43:07 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 05:43:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 05:43:25 [tidoust]
- ... Advantages of bullet chatting display are that there is a wider display area and it does not require the user to move her eyes.
- 05:44:51 [tidoust]
- ... The movement from right to left allows users to read content quickly (and again without moving her eyes).
- 05:45:37 [tidoust]
- ... Sometimes, it's not only about comments, it can be text to improve the feeling of horror videos for instance.
- 05:46:16 [tidoust]
- ... Also used to share messages in stadiums on a big wall.
- 05:46:31 [takio_]
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- 05:46:52 [kaz]
- Chair: Chris, Igarashi, Pierre
- 05:47:20 [tidoust]
- Michael: I'm from Dwango. Use cases and requirements for our current service Niconico.
- 05:47:54 [tidoust]
- ... Niconico is a streaming Web site launched in 2006. Since its inception, its unique feature has been its comment system.
- 05:49:22 [tidoust]
- ... [showing a demo]
- 05:49:33 [tidoust]
- ... allows to create a user experience.
- 05:49:54 [tidoust]
- pal: Who specifies at what vertical position the bullet curtain appears?
- 05:50:06 [tidoust]
- ... Do you foresee that to be done at the client side?
- 05:50:14 [tidoust]
- Song: No, done on the server side
- 05:50:33 [tidoust]
- pal: So the format has all the positioning information.
- 05:51:26 [tidoust]
- Michael: In the current implementation, clients do the rendering, and they all have the same algorithm, so deterministic.
- 05:51:26 [kaz]
- present+ Mamoru_Takagi, Daiki_Matsui, Hiroaki_Shimano, Shinya_Abe, Yuki_Yamakami, Masayoshi_Onishi, Yongjun_Wu, David_Fazio, Florent_Castelli, Nonoka_Jinushi
- 05:51:53 [tidoust]
- pal: If things were standardized at W3C, would the positioning be imposed by the server?
- 05:52:11 [tidoust]
- Michael: Currently, we'd like the client to have the ability to position the comments.
- 05:52:44 [tidoust]
- pal: So the client receives the comments and decides where to lay them out.
- 05:53:12 [tidoust]
- igarashi: You want to let the browser do the whole rendering?
- 05:53:25 [tidoust]
- Michael: No, the Web application.
- 05:53:30 [kaz]
- q+
- 05:54:04 [tidoust]
- ... Goal of the standardization is to have a shared format for bullet curtains, because many providers have a similar comments system (Niconico, Bilibili, etc.)
- 05:54:39 [tidoust]
- Song: First step is to define an interoperability format. If there is a way to involve the browser vendors, then great, second step.
- 05:55:00 [yajun_chen]
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- 05:55:07 [tidoust]
- markw: Browsers would want to know why something cannot be done in JS.
- 05:55:28 [tidoust]
- dsinger: And you could possibly do it with WebVTT / TTML.
- 05:56:22 [tidoust]
- Song: For advanced features, there are things that TTML does not address. Happy to talk with TTML folks though.
- 05:57:11 [tidoust]
- Michael: Use cases and requirements level for now. Possible solutions are still very early stage.
- 05:57:46 [tidoust]
- ... Bullet curtain allows to create feelings such as sharing content with friends.
- 05:58:07 [tidoust]
- ... Comments can be used to improve the video with artwork, or even to flood the video with comments.
- 05:58:26 [tidoust]
- ... Comments have become an important part of Niconico's culture.
- 05:58:41 [tidoust]
- ... Part of on-demand and live-streaming services of Niconico.
- 05:58:49 [hyojin]
- hyojin has joined #me
- 05:59:07 [tidoust]
- ... Comments move right to left across at set times, based on the media timeline.
- 05:59:16 [tidoust]
- cpn: If I pause the video, do the comments pause?
- 05:59:20 [tidoust]
- Michael: Yes.
- 05:59:54 [tidoust]
- ... Comments are clipped to the edge of the player (or to an arbitrary region).
- 06:00:11 [tidoust]
- ... When the video loads, comments are loaded from the server and rendered.
- 06:00:27 [tidoust]
- ... If a user submits a comment, it appears immediately to the user, and gets shared to other viewers.
- 06:00:28 [sudeep]
- sudeep has joined #me
- 06:00:57 [tidoust]
- ... Seeking to the same time in the same video will have the same comment appear at the same time and at the same position.
- 06:01:15 [tidoust]
- ... As if the comments were part of the video, comments scale with the video in particular.
- 06:01:31 [tidoust]
- ... Comments can be interactive (e.g. context menu)
- 06:01:40 [kaz]
- q?
- 06:02:07 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #me
- 06:02:09 [kaz]
- q+
- 06:02:32 [tidoust]
- markw: Layout problem (HTML is good at it), animation problem (Web Animations), but the thing is Web Animations ties animations to the wall clock, whereas here animation is tied to the media clock.
- 06:02:50 [tidoust]
- ... That may be a useful gap to identify
- 06:03:18 [igarashi]
- q+
- 06:03:24 [tidoust]
- cpn: Came earlier during Francois' presentation. Tying non-media content rendering to media timeline.
- 06:04:01 [tidoust]
- igarashi: Some requirements about positioning the subtitles.
- 06:04:14 [tidoust]
- ... Client decides arbitrary where to position the comments.
- 06:04:21 [tidoust]
- Michael: Yes.
- 06:04:33 [tidoust]
- igarashi: Content provider does not care about positioning of subtitles.
- 06:04:56 [tidoust]
- sangwhan: Aside from Web, do you also want to handle support for native players?
- 06:05:03 [tidoust]
- ... That would change perspectives.
- 06:05:27 [tidoust]
- Michael: We do have native apps, so we'd be interested with a solution that covers that space too.
- 06:06:06 [tidoust]
- sangwhan: According to Mark's idea, if it's tied to the animation timeline in browsers, you're restricting yourself to Web environment.
- 06:06:24 [tidoust]
- ack kaz
- 06:07:01 [kaz]
- ack iga
- 06:07:04 [tidoust]
- kaz: When I talked to Niconico, he mentioned extension about tiles
- 06:07:20 [kaz]
- s/Nikoniko/Koizuka-san from Nikoniko/
- 06:07:44 [yyuki]
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- 06:07:55 [yyuki]
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- 06:08:22 [kaz]
- s/extension about tiles/extension mechanism named "Niko-script", and that mechanism has capability of specifying style and position of captions. so that capability could be also considered at some point. maybe not now, though./
- 06:08:34 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 06:08:34 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 06:10:00 [MarkVickers]
- I'm not staying connected for the joint meetings. Have a good TPAC all! -mav
- 06:11:25 [horiuchi_]
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- 06:11:35 [MasayaIkeo]
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- 06:13:04 [takio]
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- 06:20:11 [suzuki]
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- 06:20:34 [YukiYoshida]
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- 06:27:08 [takio]
- takio has joined #me
- 06:32:02 [MasayaIkeo]
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- 06:32:59 [ShinyaAbe]
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- 06:37:47 [tidoust]
- Topic: Joint meeting with Second Screen WG/CG
- 06:38:27 [tidoust]
- cpn: The Second Screen WG/CG made a lot of progress on the Open Screen Protocol for discovering, authenticating and controlling remote displays on the local network.
- 06:38:48 [Youngsun_Ryu]
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- 06:38:53 [horiuchi]
- horiuchi has joined #me
- 06:39:09 [anssik]
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- 06:39:18 [anssik]
- Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
- 06:39:30 [glenn]
- glenn has joined #me
- 06:39:35 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: I work for Google. Been involved in Second Screen since 2015. Second screen for the Web is the way we want to enable Web applications to take advantage of connected displays/speakers and render different types of content.
- 06:39:47 [tidoust]
- ... Content can be a full Web page or specific media.
- 06:40:13 [tidoust]
- ... The Presentation API enables a web page, called the controller, to request display of an URL on a remote display on the LAN.
- 06:40:49 [tak]
- tak has joined #me
- 06:41:21 [tidoust]
- ... Example of a photo app that displays the loaded picture on a large display. You can play media, do gaming, collaboration tools. Pretty agnostic, but our experience shows that it's mainly used for media playback.
- 06:42:33 [tidoust]
- ... The Remote Playback API allows a web page on which there is a media element to remote the playback of the media element on a second screen, either through media flinging where the URL to play gets sent to the remote device, or media remoting where the media gets streamed to the second screen.
- 06:42:50 [tidoust]
- ... Both APIs are in Chrome.
- 06:43:26 [lilin]
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- 06:44:09 [tidoust]
- ... The APIs were designed to take advantage of proprietary protocols. To get broad adoption, we decided to develop an open set of protocols so that implementers could all support the APIs in an interoperable way.
- 06:44:30 [tidoust]
- ... We hope to converge at the end of the Second Screen F2F meeting this week to v1.0 of the Open Screen Protocol.
- 06:45:14 [tidoust]
- ... One use case for the future: enabling Web applications to generate their own media and present it to a connected display, e.g. for gaming.
- 06:45:24 [ak]
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- 06:45:40 [tidoust]
- ... The Open Screen Protocol supports all sorts of use cases that we hope to expose to Web applications in the future.
- 06:47:16 [tidoust]
- Yongsun: Support of QUIC in smart TVs. UDP is not supported in some TVs.
- 06:47:28 [tidoust]
- sangwhan: UDP is supported at the kernel level.
- 06:47:58 [kaz]
- present+ Yajun_Chen
- 06:48:02 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: in our library implementation, we expose UDP but that's pretty much the same thing as what you get at the system level.
- 06:48:17 [kaz]
- remote+ Yajun_Chen
- 06:48:24 [kaz]
- present- Yajun_Chen
- 06:49:12 [tidoust]
- cpn: One of the question that came up in our previous F2F meeting is around synchronization, e.g. ability to provide audio description on their device while they are sharing a media element on a second screen.
- 06:49:17 [kaz]
- present+ Takio_Yamaoka, Akihiko_Koizuka, Keiichi_Suzuki, Michael_Li, Takahiro_Kumekawa, Chris_Cunningham, Taki_Kamiya, Jeff_Jaffe, David_Singer, Glenn_Adams
- 06:49:42 [tidoust]
- ... Within that, there is the question of how close the synchronization needs to be.
- 06:50:09 [tidoust]
- ... We worked on close synchronization between main screen and companion device in HbbTV.
- 06:50:25 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: Does the HbbTV specification rely on clocks?
- 06:50:50 [tidoust]
- cpn: Yes, clock synchronization and then the devices can make adjustments to playback to stay in sync.
- 06:51:23 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: We need a mechanism for the two sides agree on a wall clock for presentation.
- 06:51:41 [tidoust]
- ... If the HbbTV covers all of that, we can have a look for OSP.
- 06:51:49 [tidoust]
- cpn: Yes, it does.
- 06:52:09 [kaz]
- present+ Hyojin_Song, Francois_Daoust, Ken_Komatsu, Toshiya_Nakakura, Jonathan_Devlin, Amit_Hilbuch, Steve_Anton, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Daniel_Peintner
- 06:52:11 [anssik]
- Open Screen Protocol issue Requirements for multi-device timing while streaming https://github.com/webscreens/openscreenprotocol/issues/195
- 06:52:21 [tidoust]
- ... Some implementers have found it difficult to achieve that level of synchronization. It's not so widely implemented for now.
- 06:52:29 [tidoust]
- ... I can provide information on how that has been done.
- 06:52:45 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: Collaboration between the protocol and the application levels.
- 06:53:03 [tidoust]
- cpn: And also something that exposes the pipeline delays.
- 06:53:55 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: One of the things that seem very important is the establishment of a secure communication between devices, which could have broader implications, such as connected home scenarios.
- 06:54:31 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: it could be a good foundation for that. Part of the OSP focus has been on authenticating devices, currently based on SPAKE2.
- 06:55:07 [tidoust]
- ... We're not currently focused on enabling one piece of software to find out attributes of another, for instance who manufactured it, what does it do.
- 06:55:08 [anssik]
- SPAKE2 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2/
- 06:55:39 [tidoust]
- ... You could take the chapter on authentication and use it elsewhere.
- 06:56:07 [tidoust]
- ... We did anticipate that there may be other use cases than the ones we foresee, so have landed an extensibility mechanism.
- 06:56:22 [tidoust]
- sangwhan: Is there a registry for these capabilities?
- 06:56:31 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: Yes, it's on GitHub.
- 06:56:55 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 06:56:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html kaz
- 06:57:00 [tidoust]
- ... You can be a presentation controller, receiver, send or receive media, that's all negotiable in the OSP.
- 06:57:33 [dsinger]
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- 06:57:49 [tidoust]
- cpn: I suspect remote playback of encrypted content is a use case shared by different members here.
- 06:58:35 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: The API is pretty much agnostic. At the protocol level, we haven't tried to add support for messages to exchange to support encrypted media.
- 06:59:31 [tidoust]
- ... That seems more to be a use case for the Presentation API where the application can create and exchange application-specific message commands.
- 07:00:01 [tidoust]
- ... Remote playback of encrypted media is closely tied to credentials, and that's application level.
- 07:01:09 [tidoust]
- markw: The thing that you don't have here is the streaming model where the controlling device has the decryption key and wants to stream the content to the receiver device.
- 07:01:53 [Joshue108]
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- 07:01:57 [tidoust]
- markw: What happens to the media stream when it reaches the receiver? Goes to a media element or through JS processing?
- 07:02:19 [tidoust]
- Peter: receiver is handling the decoding.
- 07:02:41 [tidoust]
- cpn: Is there an IG recommendation that we'd want to make?
- 07:03:23 [tidoust]
- markw: The most likely model for us for doing this would be to have a receiving web application that handles the user's credentials
- 07:03:53 [tidoust]
- cpn: That would make the sync issue interesting because it is then at the application level.
- 07:04:46 [tidoust]
- ... One of the issues we have with Remote Playback is that we want to provide a custom UI, which means that we rather want to use the Presentation API for that.
- 07:05:19 [tidoust]
- ... Didn't we discuss having a Media element through the Presentation API that gets automatically synchronized with local content?
- 07:05:29 [NJ]
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- 07:05:57 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: I believe that's correct. I don't recall the status of it. It came up in May 2018, I think.
- 07:05:59 [anssik]
- Second Screen May 2019 F2F https://www.w3.org/wiki/Second_Screen/Meetings/May_2019_F2F
- 07:07:33 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: I think we probably agreed that it should be possible. It probably requires a few tweaks to the protocol so that it knows that the remoting is part of a shared presentation.
- 07:07:37 [igarashi]
- q+
- 07:08:50 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: We discussed whether everything could be done in script. Same recommendation for synchronization. What you might be missing is the latency of the media rendering pipeline.
- 07:08:57 [samira]
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- 07:09:21 [tidoust]
- cpn: I have seen implementations that manage to do synchronized playback across devices through a timing server.
- 07:09:25 [tidoust]
- ack igarashi
- 07:09:42 [JohnRiv]
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- 07:09:57 [tidoust]
- igarashi: I don't follow the discussion on encrypted media. You are not going to define how keys are exchanged in the protocol?
- 07:11:13 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: Someone with more experience on EME might be able to shed some lights as to what would be required.
- 07:12:01 [tidoust]
- ... One reason we designed an extension system is that people interested in new features can propose them, prototype implementations, and then we can incorporate them in the spec if all goes fine. We don't have the expertise in the group.
- 07:12:19 [nigel]
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- 07:12:34 [nigel]
- present+ Nigel_Megitt
- 07:12:36 [tidoust]
- ... We're not defining the path for encrypted media from one device with another. Might work if both devices support HDCP.
- 07:12:41 [nigel]
- rrsagent, pointer
- 07:12:41 [RRSAgent]
- See https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-irc#T07-12-41
- 07:12:58 [tidoust]
- ... I think there is an open issue in our GitHub about remote playback and encrypted media.
- 07:14:11 [cpn]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 07:14:19 [tidoust]
- igarashi: Arbitrary application message passing is supported?
- 07:14:28 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: Yes.
- 07:15:08 [cpn]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 07:15:08 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html cpn
- 07:15:18 [tidoust]
- ... In the spec, you'll see bindings between the API and the messages exchanged in the protocol.
- 07:15:46 [tidoust]
- ... For instance, video.remote.prompt() requires exchanges messages between devices
- 07:16:30 [tidoust]
- markw: Could the protocol work on TCP?
- 07:16:41 [tidoust]
- Peter: You'd have to advertise it differently
- 07:17:25 [glenn]
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- 07:17:40 [tidoust]
- igarashi: [question on security during remote playback]
- 07:18:22 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: the Remote Playback API does not require the receiver to be a user agent in the usual sense, it does require the receiver to support media playback as in the HTML spec.
- 07:19:14 [tidoust]
- markw: The Presentation API requires the receiver to be able to render the URL, but the URL could be a non HTTP URL, custom schemes may be supported instead.
- 07:20:10 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: The spec defines processing of HTTPS URL, the rest is undefined.
- 07:20:30 [anssik]
- Open Screen Protocol https://github.com/webscreens/openscreenprotocol/
- 07:20:30 [tidoust]
- ... We have a writeup of how the protocol interacts with custom schemes in the GitHub repo.
- 07:21:07 [tidoust]
- cpn: That has been one of the extension mechanisms that we've been interested in for opening a Web page that has broadcast capability in HbbTV (perhaps Hybridcast has similar needs)
- 07:22:25 [anssik]
- Custom Schemes and Open Screen Protocol https://github.com/webscreens/openscreenprotocol/blob/gh-pages/schemes.md
- 07:22:40 [tidoust]
- [discussion on second screen support in Hybridcast]
- 07:24:05 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: regarding authentication, we looked at J-PAKE and request/response challenges but we had memory concerns there so switched to SPAKE2 following internal discussion with security experts at Google.
- 07:24:20 [tidoust]
- Peter: The protocol allows for more authentication mechanisms in the future.
- 07:24:31 [tidoust]
- ... Devices can support their own mechanism.
- 07:25:17 [tidoust]
- igarashi: Co-chair of HTTPS in local network CG, meeting on Thursday morning. We haven't reached discussion on authentication. Would be good to align with Open Screen Protocol.
- 07:25:29 [tidoust]
- sangwhan: Is there a prototype?
- 07:26:28 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: We recently decided to add streaming to the OSP, which complicated things. We have a first implementation of Presentation API commands. No crypto because we've kept changing that.
- 07:27:00 [tidoust]
- ... The library is coming. It implements the protocol. It does not do media rendering, it does not have JS bindings, etc.
- 07:27:52 [anssik]
- Open Screen Library implementation https://chromium.googlesource.com/openscreen/
- 07:28:01 [tidoust]
- igarashi: If you want to apply the OSP to the broadcast protocol, we need to consider the case where the remote device is not a browser. For instance, channel change is done by the system, not the application.
- 07:28:57 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: Capabilities like supporting channel tuning is not in the OSP. If you think that the communication channel needs to be terminated on channel change, that can be added.
- 07:29:40 [tidoust]
- igarashi: In the case that some arbitrary message protocol is still necessary, you'd use the Presentation API, but the receiver may not be a browser agent.
- 07:29:50 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: seems like something for an extension.
- 07:30:03 [tidoust]
- cpn: OK, thank you for the discussion.
- 07:30:37 [tidoust]
- mfoltzgoogle: Mostly, we want input on use cases that we haven't considered yet. We'd love to get feedback on the extension mechanism as well.
- 07:30:41 [tidoust]
- pal: Thank you.
- 07:31:35 [tidoust]
- Topic: Joint meeting with Timed Text WG
- 07:32:19 [tidoust]
- andreas: We could start with 360 standardization
- 07:32:42 [tidoust]
- nigel: In TTWG, we're in the final stages of rechartering.
- 07:33:01 [tidoust]
- ... Some things that we're considering such as karaoke.
- 07:34:34 [Joshue108]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Accessible_RTC_Use_Cases
- 07:34:41 [tidoust]
- ... Quick agenda bashing, any topic you'd like to cover?
- 07:34:54 [tidoust]
- Josh: accessibility use cases? See accessible RTC use cases document
- 07:35:04 [tidoust]
- cpn: TTML and MSE?
- 07:35:48 [tidoust]
- nigel: Yes, opinions about exposing TextTracks from MSE.
- 07:37:09 [Joshue108]
- apologises for throwing a curve ball to Nigel, I'm here for the XR bit but think this doc may still be useful as an FYI
- 07:37:19 [angel]
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- 07:37:31 [angel]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 07:37:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-me-minutes.html angel
- 07:38:03 [tidoust]
- andreas: Focus the discussion of the day on standardization of 360 subtitles. Most of the stuff comes from an EU research project.
- 07:39:01 [tidoust]
- ... To make it short, there have been extensive user tests. For captions, main requirement is to have subtitles that are always in the field of view. It's enough to have them on a 2D plane, no need to have them positioned in 3D.
- 07:39:22 [tidoust]
- ... There should be some indication of where the audio source is positioned.
- 07:39:38 [samira]
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- 07:39:48 [tidoust]
- ... Of course, you also need features present in TTML, TTML-IMSC profile being a good example.
- 07:41:00 [tidoust]
- ... [demo of an application to test subtitles positioning]
- 07:42:55 [tidoust]
- ... Lots of activity starting last year at TPAC. We started with a discussion in the Immersive Web CG. Then discussion within the TTWG, Media & Entertainment IG.
- 07:43:16 [tidoust]
- ... In the end, we realized we needed more people from immersive and browser vendors.
- 07:43:30 [tidoust]
- ... We wrote a proposal to be discussed in the WICG.
- 07:43:47 [tidoust]
- ... There has been no comment on the WICG forum yet, so question is how do we proceed?
- 07:44:45 [tidoust]
- ... Two additional activities worth noting. A colleague from Google proposed the creation of an Immersive Caption Community Group, and XR accessibility W3C workshop in November.
- 07:44:58 [tidoust]
- ... There is awareness that something needs to be done.
- 07:45:12 [tidoust]
- ... Hard to get enough resources to get started though.
- 07:45:31 [tidoust]
- ... How to get time and resources from implementors?
- 07:45:33 [Joshue108]
- Inclusive Design for Immersive Web Standards W3C Workshop Seattle Nov 5-6
- 07:45:35 [Joshue108]
- https://www.w3.org/2019/08/inclusive-xr-workshop/
- 07:45:47 [tidoust]
- ... Everything is evolving, nothing really fixed.
- 07:45:48 [nigel]
- q+ to ask what is the state of documentation of the requirements right now
- 07:45:56 [tidoust]
- ... Is it really a web platform topic?
- 07:46:18 [tidoust]
- ... Important to know when to stop if there is not enough interest.
- 07:46:28 [glenn]
- glenn has joined #me
- 07:46:43 [tidoust]
- ... Apart from which group should deal with it, the question is also where does this solution fit?
- 07:46:46 [yajun_ch_]
- yajun_ch_ has joined #me
- 07:47:37 [tidoust]
- ... Authoring environments (Unity, Unreal), Web applications, WebXR API (linked to OpenXR) and 360 / XR device
- 07:48:25 [tidoust]
- ... How to follow-up? I thought WICG would be the right place, but if there is not enough place, there is still the question of whether that's the right place. Not sure about Immersive Caption CG since it does not exist yet.
- 07:48:37 [angel_]
- angel_ has joined #me
- 07:48:38 [tidoust]
- ... TTWG is the right group but we need more expertise from the XR world.
- 07:49:00 [tidoust]
- ... Another solution is to continue the work in a "private" repository.
- 07:49:02 [tidoust]
- ack nigel
- 07:49:03 [Zakim]
- nigel, you wanted to ask what is the state of documentation of the requirements right now
- 07:49:11 [samira]
- q+
- 07:49:20 [tidoust]
- nigel: What is the state of documentation in terms of the requirements?
- 07:49:21 [kaz]
- q+
- 07:49:22 [Joshue108]
- q+
- 07:49:40 [tidoust]
- ... Describing positioning in 3D space, can I do it with audio?
- 07:50:38 [Takio]
- Takio has joined #me
- 07:50:39 [tidoust]
- andreas: There are documented user tests, as part of an European project deliverable.
- 07:51:33 [tidoust]
- nigel: I was thinking about requirements documentation. What is the problem that you're trying to solve, user needs.
- 07:52:16 [tidoust]
- ack samira
- 07:52:38 [igarashi]
- q+
- 07:52:38 [tidoust]
- samira: Who was the person who started the Immersive Caption Community Group?
- 07:52:54 [tidoust]
- andreas: [missed name]
- 07:53:13 [tidoust]
- samira: OK. Another comment is that WebXR is becoming more stable.
- 07:53:20 [cpn]
- s/[missed name]/Christopher Patnoe at Google/
- 07:53:43 [tidoust]
- andreas: Yes, the question for me is where should this go.
- 07:54:21 [tidoust]
- ... The WebXR API does not know anything about what's inside the WebGL right now.
- 07:54:38 [tidoust]
- cpn: Is all that's needed a delivery format and then some library can place that in the immersive environment?
- 07:55:28 [tidoust]
- igarashi: Do we need to extend APIs in the browser to support this?
- 07:55:44 [igarashi]
- -q
- 07:56:03 [Manishearth]
- Manishearth has joined #me
- 07:56:04 [tidoust]
- andreas: OMAF defines a way to multiplex IMSC subtitles with MP4, but then it's all bound to that content format. Not sure it's sufficient for interoperability scenarios.
- 07:56:16 [Manishearth]
- Manishearth has left #me
- 07:56:17 [igarashi]
- +q
- 07:56:42 [tidoust]
- ack kaz
- 07:57:26 [tidoust]
- kaz: Is it related to WebVMT?
- 07:57:54 [tidoust]
- Francois: WebVMT is about tracks positioned on a map, not in 360 videos.
- 07:58:12 [cpn__]
- cpn__ has joined #me
- 07:59:00 [Joshue108]
- ack me
- 07:59:02 [tidoust]
- q+
- 07:59:03 [suzuki]
- suzuki has joined #me
- 07:59:22 [tidoust]
- andreas: It would be an option to have a subtitle format, but burning captions in a frame does not provide good user experience.
- 07:59:55 [tidoust]
- josh: Looking at things from an accessibility perspective. APA would seem a good group to talk to.
- 08:00:05 [tidoust]
- andreas: We talked a lot with Judy, Janina and so on.
- 08:00:10 [Joshue108]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Xaur_draft
- 08:00:19 [cpn__]
- q?
- 08:00:27 [tidoust]
- josh: We created a list of requirements for XR in APA.
- 08:01:15 [samira]
- IW group is also discussing dom overlays so this is another option for subtitles
- 08:01:51 [tidoust]
- pal: How many people in this group doing 360 videos and XR content?
- 08:02:08 [tidoust]
- ... One possibility is that this group is not the best group to get feedback from.
- 08:02:20 [tidoust]
- andreas: I don't know, that's what all groups say ;)
- 08:02:34 [yy]
- yy has joined #me
- 08:02:41 [tidoust]
- ... We need a critical mass to do it.
- 08:03:09 [tidoust]
- pal: People that build apps for Oculus, are they around?
- 08:03:34 [tidoust]
- andreas: I spoke to some of them. They always say that they don't provide subtitles.
- 08:03:52 [tidoust]
- ... Some discussion in Khronos with Unity and Epic.
- 08:03:53 [kaz]
- s/is it related to WebVMT?/wondering about the possible relationship with WebVMT (because 360 video could be mapped with some kind of map image)/
- 08:04:51 [tidoust]
- ... I talked with Immersive Web folks. We'll talk about that on Wednesday 11:00 during Samira's breakout session.
- 08:05:03 [nigel]
- q?
- 08:05:35 [tidoust]
- ... The issue that we have is that there is not endless time to deal with it. The project is running out. It stops next year. To push a standard, it will take 2-3 more years.
- 08:06:36 [tidoust]
- ack igarashi
- 08:06:41 [Joshue108]
- There are very few testing with people with disabilities in this space so this is very interesting.
- 08:06:59 [tidoust]
- igarashi: From a content production perspective, I'm interested in a format, but not sure about browser support for this.
- 08:07:38 [tidoust]
- ack tidoust
- 08:08:05 [tidoust]
- https://github.com/immersive-web/dom-overlays
- 08:08:28 [nigel]
- q+ to wonder what the smallest thing is that we need to standardise first - is it a syntax for expressing a 3D location?
- 08:09:28 [tidoust]
- Francois: Not clear to me what you want to be standardized. DOM overlays could be one building block.
- 08:10:18 [tidoust]
- andreas: Yes, DOM overlays may be a good way forward to render captioning thatn burning things in WebGL.
- 08:10:23 [tidoust]
- ack nigel
- 08:10:23 [Zakim]
- nigel, you wanted to wonder what the smallest thing is that we need to standardise first - is it a syntax for expressing a 3D location?
- 08:10:50 [Joshue108]
- +1 to Nigel
- 08:11:09 [tidoust]
- nigel: Same point. Do we have agreement that it's about a syntax for expressing a 3D location?
- 08:11:37 [tidoust]
- andreas: Actually, that's not what we need, since we want it to appear on a 2D plane, that is what the users want.
- 08:12:02 [tidoust]
- ... We need a way to indicate where in the 3D space the audio source is coming from.
- 08:12:06 [Joshue108]
- q+
- 08:12:31 [tidoust]
- Gary: So you need some positioning in 3D to make that possible.
- 08:12:54 [tidoust]
- andreas: Define a good container is another issue.
- 08:13:06 [Joshue108]
- ack me
- 08:13:21 [glenn]
- q+
- 08:13:34 [tidoust]
- Josh: in the User requirements document I showed you, we took a module approach.
- 08:13:48 [tidoust]
- ... This architecture does not exist yet.
- 08:13:58 [nigel]
- s/module/modular
- 08:14:08 [Joshue108]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Media_in_XR
- 08:14:23 [tidoust]
- ... We're also looking at Media requirements in XR. Not vetted by the APA WG yet.
- 08:15:09 [tidoust]
- andreas: Lots of 360 content for the time being, and a lot of it without captioning.
- 08:15:13 [Joshue108]
- s/module approach/modular approach
- 08:16:02 [tidoust]
- Gary: WebVTT update. I joined TTWG half a year ago. Trying to get WebVTT to progress. One of the big thing is an implementation report exists right now.
- 08:16:14 [tidoust]
- ... Something like 6-7 issues with it.
- 08:16:15 [atai]
- Link to 360 subtitle requirement https://github.com/immersive-web/proposals/issues/40
- 08:16:55 [tidoust]
- ... Basically, we're looking at features implemented in browsers and in VLC. Then identify features at risk, and possibly remove them to get a V1 out.
- 08:17:24 [tidoust]
- ... Then hopefully convince browser vendors to implement the features that we may remove.
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- 08:17:40 [gkatsev]
- -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/WebVTT_Implementation_Report WebVTT Implementation Report
- 08:17:54 [nigel]
- q?
- 08:18:05 [tidoust]
- ack glenn
- 08:18:38 [tidoust]
- glenn: Any SMPTE spec that includes positioning of subtitles?
- 08:18:44 [tidoust]
- nigel: That's a good question.
- 08:19:26 [tidoust]
- ... One of the things we're doing around TTML2 is adding new functionality in extension modules. We're trying to constrain the core, and then provide the rest in extensions.
- 08:19:29 [glenn]
- s/positioning of subtitles/3d positions of audio sources/
- 08:19:48 [tidoust]
- ... There are a few ones that are ongoing.
- 08:21:10 [tidoust]
- ... [details extensions]
- 08:21:43 [tidoust]
- ... Right now, audio/video comes to MSE but not text.
- 08:22:16 [tidoust]
- markw: My personal position is that things should be symmetrical across media types.
- 08:22:37 [tidoust]
- ... At least in our application, we prefer to do the rendering of text tracks ourselves.
- 08:22:56 [tidoust]
- ... It would be advantageous in which the browser is aware of text tracks.
- 08:23:13 [tidoust]
- nigel: You said my sentiment much better than I could.
- 08:23:40 [tidoust]
- Gregg: I would argue that we don't want to render them ourselves, but we still want to control the rendering with our styles.
- 08:24:05 [tidoust]
- markw: Yes, we want to have enough control of the rendering, but we could offload the rendering to the browser, that would be great.
- 08:24:47 [tidoust]
- nigel: It's been hard to get statistics about user customization, or people that play back content with captions.
- 08:25:10 [tidoust]
- markw: In terms of rendering, you would still want the site to control enabling/disabling.
- 08:25:34 [atai]
- +1
- 08:25:42 [markw]
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- 08:26:21 [tidoust]
- Gary: We shouldn't try to do the same thing twice. If there's more support to do the new generic TextTrack thing, then that's good.
- 08:27:02 [tidoust]
- pal: Two different questions: any objection to enabling symmetry in MSE? Are you going to use it?
- 08:27:27 [tidoust]
- markw: First question is whether people think that could be harmful.
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- 08:28:29 [tidoust]
- nigel: OK, I just wanted to raise it to get feedback.
- 08:29:12 [tidoust]
- [No concerns expressed regarding question on whether people think that could be harmful]
- 08:30:00 [tidoust]
- Josh: About accessibility in WebRTC use cases, challenge of synchronizing some of these things together when switching to a different modality. That's one.
- 08:31:15 [tidoust]
- nigel: It would make sense to talk about live contribution to see where that fits. How does live contributions actually work, what's the mental model?
- 08:31:33 [tidoust]
- ... Alright, I think we covered all topics.
- 08:31:40 [tidoust]
- Topic: Closing and wrap-up
- 08:32:59 [tidoust]
- cpn: Thinking about Media Timed Events, some editorial work. Planned discussion on DataCue. Around bullet chatting, more conversation will happen this week.
- 08:33:25 [tidoust]
- ... Some possibility to go to Timed Text WG.
- 08:33:53 [tidoust]
- nigel: It feels to me that this IG could be a better home for that if there's no clarity in TTWG on Friday about that.
- 08:34:08 [tidoust]
- andreas: Can you explain again how you want to proceed?
- 08:34:22 [nigel]
- s/a better home/the best place to give guidance
- 08:34:22 [tidoust]
- ... Draft published in the Chinese IG, what would the ideal next step be?
- 08:35:11 [tidoust]
- song: Initially, contributors were from China. Now that NikoNiko is engaged in discussions, work could go to TTWG, or perhaps in another group.
- 08:35:47 [tidoust]
- ... We want the use cases to be approved by the IG, afterwards we'd like to push standardization work on identified gaps.
- 08:36:06 [tidoust]
- ... Within the next few weeks, we'll have a last version of the use cases.
- 08:36:39 [tidoust]
- andreas: OK, so this week would be a good opportunity to decide where this should go.
- 08:36:54 [nigel]
- c/NikoNiko/Niconico
- 08:36:58 [tidoust]
- cpn: We had a lot of discussion around synchronization today. Frame accurate rendering.
- 08:37:18 [tidoust]
- ... Ability to seek accurately within videos.
- 08:37:31 [tidoust]
- ... Some interest to follow-up, although no one volunteers.
- 08:37:59 [tidoust]
- ... The media production use case that Pierre presented would be a good perspective to address this.
- 08:38:18 [tidoust]
- pal: With an action on Gary to follow up with a colleague on that.
- 08:38:40 [nigel]
- s/a colleague/Garrett Singer
- 08:40:05 [tidoust]
- cpn: Secure communications between devices, we heard interesting stuff from Hybridcast and HTTPS in local network, and Second Screen. Interesting set of approaches that could be compared.
- 08:40:23 [tidoust]
- ... Seems like a good fit for HTTPS in local network CG discussions.
- 08:41:49 [tidoust]
- ... Clearly the immersive captioning is interesting, but not sure what next step in this group should be. Maybe the Immersive Captioning CG could be the right forum.
- 08:43:16 [tidoust]
- ... We talked about 360 videos. That's something that the IG could follow on. We have liaison with MPEG. Unless you feel that immersive group would be a better home.
- 08:43:26 [tidoust]
- Samira: Possibly. At this point, I'm gathering input.
- 08:44:06 [tidoust]
- cpn: Finally, there's the timed text in MSE proposal. Would that sit in TTWG?
- 08:44:13 [tidoust]
- markw: It would be in scope of the Media WG.
- 08:44:22 [tidoust]
- cpn: Have I missed anything from the summary?
- 08:44:56 [tidoust]
- pal: One encouragement for you to clarify the scope in Media Timed Events.
- 08:45:27 [tidoust]
- cpn: And also possibly make more specific recommendations.
- 08:45:36 [tidoust]
- pal: I think it helps to have something concrete.
- 08:45:50 [tidoust]
- cpn: OK, I think that's everything, thank for your presence today!
- 08:45:58 [tidoust]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
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