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00:26:19 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/16-audio-irc
00:26:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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00:26:23 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
00:26:23 <trackbot> Date: 16 September 2019
00:26:28 <chris> trackbot, start telcon
00:26:31 <rtoyg_m2> present+ rtoyg_m2
00:26:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
00:26:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
00:26:34 <trackbot> Date: 16 September 2019
00:26:44 <chris> rrsagent, make logs public
00:27:22 <mdjp> rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
00:29:32 <mdjp> hoch: not much to report from google on implementation, some optimisations and clarifications. Still missing output latency and media stream track.
00:30:28 <mdjp> padenot: Missing audioworklet, implementation in progress. CancelAndHold being implemented, waiting on clear spec for algorythm.
00:31:35 <mdjp> padenot aw, missing message port, some queations around this.
00:34:30 <chris> jer: our implementation has not been updated for at least a year, we have ery few resources but don't oppose this
00:34:44 <chris> https://github.com/w3cping/tracking-issues/issues/13
00:35:32 <chris> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/2061
00:36:59 <mdjp> mdjp aim to republish updated CR during TPAC
00:37:33 <mdjp> chris blocker is issue #2061 privacy review
00:40:29 <mdjp> issue #2069, is this required for V1. padenot  it is late for the spec but potentially a problem
00:43:57 <mdjp> karlt joins meeting remotely
00:46:08 <mdjp> karlt there was a chance to make this easier. Might be hard to spec this around message port.
00:48:50 <mdjp> padenot this is a big change karlt what is the implications padenot chrome is already shipping, concerns about compatibility.
00:56:05 <mdjp> padenot something like, when we would not call process again we could automatically close the mp karlt so we define when close is called.  I considered this but nodes should be reusable so we do not know when this would happen to close automatically
00:57:39 <mdjp> mdjp if we defer this what are the issues in coming back to it in the future. karlt we would have compatibility issues
00:58:12 <mdjp> padenot this is a serious issue - multiple audio nodes, and cannot dispose
00:58:32 <mdjp> hoch worker does not have this problems, does not expose mp object itself?
00:58:50 <mdjp> padenot how do you send between processes hoch worker inherits from mp
00:59:44 <mdjp> hoch aim to talk to chrome worker team
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01:00:38 <mdjp> karlt we are working on it - network issue....
01:01:29 <mdjp> padenot in a worker you can reinstantiate a message channel - so same situation exists and people need to be aware of this, objects must be disposed of manually
01:02:01 <mdjp> karlt good point, we would only be fixing one usecase but the problem still exists elsewhere.  Outying cases would still be an issue
01:02:21 <mdjp> padenot anyone who wants to do something bad will still be able to this is a fundmental issue
01:03:21 <mdjp> padenot might want to take input from people who have been dealing with message channel and gc
01:03:39 <mdjp> padenot will write summary and request more input
01:07:06 <hoch> https://www.chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/popularity
01:07:41 <hoch> To sum up: V8MessageChannel constructor = ~40%, V8AudioContext constructor = ~4%, V8GainNode constructor= ~1.2%
01:08:05 <hoch> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/2051
01:10:48 <hoch> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/2047
01:12:27 <mdjp> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+no%3Amilestone
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01:32:58 <padenot> 15min break
01:33:24 <mdjp> Agenda https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/F2F_Sep_2019
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02:00:14 <padenot> sangwhan, we'll discuss this in a minute, thanks
02:00:48 <sangwhan> padenot: thanks!
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02:03:41 <mdjp> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1967
02:15:18 <mdjp> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/2008
02:17:20 <mdjp> hoch fundamental issue touching event loop spec
02:25:51 <padenot> sangwhan, we dont' think we _need_ TAG presence at this stage V2, but TAG presence could be useful when talking about the `AudioDeviceClient` proposal, https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-cg/tree/master/audio-device-client
02:28:15 <padenot> karlt, audio issues
02:28:32 <mdjp> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1933
02:31:25 <sangwhan> padenot: roger that, will show up sometime during your allocated meeting time in that case
02:32:28 <padenot> sangwhan, do you have the agenda handy? https://www.w3.org/2011/audio/wiki/F2F_Sep_2019 is the link, basically 11am tomorrow
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02:33:58 <sangwhan> padenot: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Media_WG/TPAC/2019 seems to be what I have
02:39:28 <padenot> that's the media wg, which is thursday/friday, in #mediawg
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02:53:39 <padenot> breaking for lunch, 1h
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04:10:11 <rtoyg_m2> scribenick: rtoyg_m2
04:10:27 <rtoyg_m2> scribe: rtoyg_m2
04:12:27 <rtoyg_m2> V2: Decide what V2 means and what the goals are.
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04:13:16 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp: What is V2?  First off, incremental changes to V1.
04:13:52 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  V1 has worklets.  What counts as V2 that can be added even if worklets can do that.
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04:15:16 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  Where is that boundary?  Some things naturally make sense even if it's easy to do with worklets.  Items only benefit one person maybe not so much.
04:16:03 <rtoyg_m2> hoch: Should get feedback from developers too.
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04:16:28 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp: We're pretty clear what's in V1.  When does V2 start?
04:17:29 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  Two ways to do this.  Fork the spec.  Add a separate spec.
04:18:35 <rtoyg_m2> rtoyg_m2:  Likes 2 specs.  Will we keep them separate?
04:18:49 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  Yes, but eventually merge into one bigger spec.
04:18:57 <rtoyg_m2> hoch:  What about community input?
04:19:16 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  Yes, but primarily driven by working group.
04:20:05 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp:  Have just one WG call and more CG calls.
04:21:31 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp:  Group is small, so nice to have external viewpoints into the spec.  This is what CG is for.
04:22:38 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp:  Clarify:  Incremental update of V1, handled by WG.  But CG to help incubate new ideas.
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04:28:03 <rtoyg_m2> concensus:  Create a new repository for V2. Move over issues to V2.
04:29:31 <rtoyg_m2> hoch: Use project board; minimize use of labels except when necessary.
04:30:05 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp:  Creates a new web-audio-api-v2 repository for new work.
04:30:40 <rtoyg_m2> rtoyg_m2: What about milestones?
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04:33:06 <rtoyg_m2> concensus:  No milestones; new stuff goes to vnext project board.
04:33:25 <rtoyg_m2> (In webaudio-api repi, not v2 repo).
04:34:24 <rtoyg_m2> hoch:  No.  vnext board should be in v2 repo.
04:34:51 <rtoyg_m2> concensus: Yes.
04:44:52 <rtoyg_m2> That works.  We can do that.
04:45:47 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  and others discussing how to do a hard-sync of two oscillators.
04:48:11 <rtoyg_m2> Needs design work.  Different approaches suggested, tending towards using an AudioParam to control the sync.
04:48:19 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp: In v2?
04:48:32 <rtoyg_m2> chris: Yes.
04:52:30 <mdjp> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1803
04:52:55 <rtoyg_m2> High priority V2 issues: https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A"High+Priority+V2"
04:58:02 <rtoyg_m2> rtoyg_m2: We don't need to decide how to do it (issue 1803).  Just need to decide if we want to consider it for v2.
04:58:37 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp:  Can it be done with existing stuff?
04:59:08 <rtoyg_m2> hoch:  TAG feedback said being able to compose nodes is useful.
05:00:22 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp: In favor to V2?  In v2 doesn't require us to do it in V2.
05:00:51 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  Needs to be "under consideration" label.
05:02:48 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1791
05:02:55 <rtoyg_m2> Move to V2.
05:03:07 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1443
05:04:53 <rtoyg_m2> hoch: Depends on some external dependencies for WASM.
05:05:20 <rtoyg_m2> padenot: Luke says it's possible to register things for the WASM heap/views to handle things.
05:07:59 <rtoyg_m2> Moved to V2 for further discussion.
05:08:57 <rtoyg_m2> padenot: One way is C/C++ style where functions don't allocate it's own memory.  Pass in a pointer to memory.
05:09:25 <rtoyg_m2> hoch: Common case us big pile of WASM code.
05:09:33 <rtoyg_m2> padenot:  Should work.
05:15:47 <rtoyg_m2> karlt: Suggests a new register processor method geared more to WASM by having a callback instead of full class
05:15:56 <rtoyg_m2> karlt: Will add comments about this in the issue.
05:18:00 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1279
05:20:02 <rtoyg_m2> hoch: Like Jer's idea.
05:20:33 <rtoyg_m2> rtoyg_m2:  But startRendering() continues from last time.
05:20:46 <rtoyg_m2> hoch:  Yes, we'll need a new method.
05:21:32 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/783
05:21:44 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  Proposed IDL looks fine.
05:22:51 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/705
05:38:50 <chris> https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_pinknoise.php vs https://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_greynoise.php with fletcher-munsen equalization :)
05:39:03 <rtoyg_m2> General discussion on why this is useful and can't be done in a worklet.
05:39:19 <rtoyg_m2> jer:  Suggested doing this in a library.
05:40:16 <rtoyg_m2> rtoyg_m2:  Agreed but wanted to control exactly what the output is guarantee identical output.
05:40:27 <rtoyg_m2> Jer: Agrees that's a good reason to specify this as builtin.
05:40:43 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/541
05:45:58 <rtoyg_m2> General agreement we want this because other systems have this important feature.
05:45:59 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/445
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05:47:23 <hoch> Reference: https://www.w3.org/TR/audio-output/
05:50:21 <rtoyg_m2> Concensus:  Can be handled by ADC, but need more work on this since we might want to extend AudioContext instead or in addition to.
05:51:05 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/283
05:56:33 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/13
05:59:37 <padenot> break, 15min
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06:35:11 <padenot> well apparently it was 30 in the schedule
06:35:14 <rtoyg_m2> WebMIDI topic
06:35:37 <rtoyg_m2> cwilso: Very little update since last time; just a few small issues.
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06:36:21 <rtoyg_m2> cwilso: A few details need to be cleaned up.
06:36:45 <rtoyg_m2> cwilso: Big issue is back pressure, but waiting for other vendors to contribute to this.
06:37:14 <rtoyg_m2> cwilso: Many issues are Ready For Editing, so external people can contribute.
06:37:25 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp: Will resolving issues help?
06:38:14 <rtoyg_m2> cwilso: Best thing is if another vendor decides to implement.
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06:39:06 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp:  Is there another vendor?
06:39:30 <rtoyg_m2> padenot: Pretty much ready to go, except for the backends.
06:40:24 <rtoyg_m2> cwilso:  Main issue is security issues preventing other UAs implementing.
06:41:00 <rtoyg_m2> padenot: Mostly a resource problem not security (if shipping without sysex).
06:50:08 <padenot> https://irc.paul.cx/uploads/96bea352472551f5/MVIMG_20190912_113339.jpg
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07:07:20 <rtoyg_m2> Topic: https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A"Feature+Request%2FMissing+Feature"
07:07:40 <mdjp> V2 feature requests https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22Feature+Request%2FMissing+Feature%22
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07:08:14 <mdjp> V2 feature requests https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22Feature+Request%2FMissing+Feature%22
07:08:47 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/2006
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07:23:51 <rtoyg_m2> Move to V2/under consideration
07:23:53 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1850
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07:26:42 <rtoyg_m2> rtoyg_m2: Do we want to pile more stuff on decodeAudioData
07:27:07 <rtoyg_m2> padenot: Probably not; we're really moving to WebCodec.
07:28:52 <rtoyg_m2> chris:  Close this issue in favor of Webcodec
07:29:10 <padenot> https://github.com/WICG/web-codecs
07:29:12 <rtoyg_m2> padenot: Yes, as long as WebCodec does the things we need.
07:29:54 <chris> https://discourse.wicg.io/t/webcodecs-proposal/3662 and https://github.com/WICG/web-codecs/blob/master/explainer.md
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07:35:20 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp:  Closing issue, referencing web codecs.
07:35:22 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1764
07:35:51 <rtoyg_m2> hoch: Idea is send text to speech synthesizer, get the output and feed it into WebAudio graph.
07:36:16 <rtoyg_m2> chris: So you have have add a reverb to the voice.
07:40:27 <rtoyg_m2> chris: Doesn't appear possible to join together with current speech api.
07:40:56 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp: Closing
07:42:45 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1757
07:42:52 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp: Close
07:44:49 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1756
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07:46:13 <rtoyg_m2> mdjp: Close
07:46:33 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1540
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07:51:49 <chris> open-source pitch shifter in JS https://github.com/cristiano-belloni/KievII/blob/master/dsp/pitchshift.js
07:54:33 <rtoyg_m2> jer: Podcasts is a common use-case where people can listen to podcasts at faster speed (or slower)
07:55:47 <rtoyg_m2> Concensus: Move to V2/under consideration
07:56:59 <rtoyg_m2> https://github.com/WebAudio/web-audio-api/issues/1480
08:02:00 <rtoyg_m2> Basically handled by active processing concept.
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