IRC log of forms on 2019-09-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:33:40 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/11-forms-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:33:44 [trackbot]
Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:33:44 [trackbot]
Date: 11 September 2019
12:34:06 [Steven]
AgendaL https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Sep/0005
12:34:13 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Sep/0005
12:34:18 [Steven]
Chair: Steven
12:46:56 [Steven]
s/AgendaL/Agenda:/
12:47:52 [Steven]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Sep/0006
12:48:10 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Sep/0006
12:48:19 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
12:48:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
12:49:37 [Steven]
s/0005/0006/G
12:49:40 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
12:49:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
12:57:15 [ebruchez]
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12:58:56 [Alain]
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13:00:06 [Steven]
Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
13:01:11 [Steven]
Present+Philip
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13:04:28 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2254: Revise <replace/>
13:04:28 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Jul/0005
13:04:28 [Steven]
OK?
13:05:12 [Steven]
Steven: Speak now, or I will close these actions.
13:05:29 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2260: Change inserted-items to inserted-nodes in
13:05:29 [Steven]
xforms-replace event
13:05:29 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Jul/0007
13:05:29 [Steven]
OK?
13:05:57 [Steven]
Steven: We will discuss this shortly, but closing for now
13:06:08 [Steven]
Topic: Patterns for data mutations
13:06:08 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Jul/0008
13:06:08 [Steven]
OK?
13:06:22 [Steven]
Steven: Similarly, closing this.
13:06:36 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2262: Make insert/delete/replace text consistent with
13:06:36 [Steven]
readonly text [Steven]
13:06:36 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Sep/0005
13:06:36 [Steven]
This has been done. Please check.
13:06:53 [Steven]
Steven: Assuming this is OK.
13:07:06 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2263: Update dom text for readonly
13:07:06 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Sep/0002
13:07:18 [Steven]
Steven: Similarly
13:07:32 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2261: Clarify what to do with merged text nodes in
13:07:32 [Steven]
xforms-replace event
13:07:52 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Sep/0007.html
13:08:47 [Steven]
Erik: We need to say what happens because of the merging of text nodes due to the data model.
13:09:03 [Steven]
... it can happen in insert, replace and delete
13:09:29 [Steven]
... What does it mean to refer us to the newly inserted nodes?
13:09:39 [Steven]
... I'm not sure what the answer is.
13:10:22 [Steven]
... You can imagine an implementation just caring about the result.
13:10:35 [Steven]
... So in my email, I suggest three possibilities.
13:12:32 [Steven]
Steven: Tricky
13:13:08 [Steven]
... what are the use cases?
13:13:50 [Steven]
Erik: The event is for detecting that there has been a mutation.
13:14:05 [Steven]
Steven: Yes I use that for marking that the instance data has been changed and needs saving.
13:14:31 [Steven]
Erik: You might want to synchronise two instances.
13:14:53 [Steven]
... and in that case you would want to know what has been changed.
13:15:44 [Steven]
Steven: So which solution would support that bes?
13:15:51 [Steven]
Erik: That would exclude solution 1.
13:15:59 [Steven]
s/bes?/best?
13:17:08 [Steven]
Steven: Solution 2 might not let you distinguish between something that had been merged, and something that had been inserted.
13:18:49 [Steven]
... that may mean we use solution 3, and supply the inserted things, without referring to the result.
13:19:21 [Steven]
Erik: We might be able to supply even more information so that you know the result of merges.
13:20:11 [Steven]
... the first step would be to say that text nodes that been inserted and merged are not included in the contest informaiton
13:20:40 [Steven]
s/contest informaiton/context information/
13:21:28 [Steven]
Steven: Can I give you an action item to suggest some text?
13:21:30 [Steven]
Erik: Sure
13:21:47 [Steven]
ACTION: Erik to propose text for the merged textnodes case of insert and replace.
13:21:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2264 - Propose text for the merged textnodes case of insert and replace. [on Erik Bruchez - due 2019-09-18].
13:22:11 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2259: Propose text for mips on controls [Steven]
13:22:11 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Jun/0014
13:22:15 [Steven]
Steven: In progress
13:22:28 [Steven]
Topic: XForms and Web sockets
13:22:28 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2019Aug/0000
13:22:55 [Steven]
Steven: I read it. I found that there was not enough information about the <ws/> element
13:23:12 [Steven]
... it does look very similar to <submet/>
13:23:17 [Steven]
s/met/mit/
13:23:51 [Steven]
Steven: And the name ws is badly chosen because it refers to the implementation and not the purpose.
13:24:07 [Steven]
... but there is clearly a use case.
13:25:11 [Steven]
... I wish I knew how our Danish colleagues did their IRC application using XForms, because clearly they could do this stuff already, apparently without a websocket interface.
13:25:53 [Steven]
... What I'll do is contact them to see if they can remember how they did, and maybe even get the source.
13:26:01 [Steven]
... Any otehr comments.
13:26:14 [Steven]
s/otehr/other/
13:26:37 [Steven]
Erik: I didn't get a chance to read it yet.
13:26:51 [Steven]
Philip: Nor did I.
13:27:02 [Steven]
Steven: I'll add it to next week's discussion again.
13:27:18 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to contact the Danes about IRC
13:27:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2265 - Contact the danes about irc [on Steven Pemberton - due 2019-09-18].
13:27:34 [Steven]
Topic: AOB
13:27:42 [Steven]
[None]
13:27:49 [Steven]
[ADJOURN]
13:28:00 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:28:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
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