IRC log of silver on 2019-09-10

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13:27:30 [RRSAgent]

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13:27:30 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-silver-irc

13:27:32 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

13:27:35 [trackbot]

Meeting: Silver Community Group Teleconference

13:27:35 [trackbot]

Date: 10 September 2019

13:27:37 [Lauriat]

Present+

13:27:42 [Lauriat]

agenda+ TPAC week schedule review

13:27:43 [Lauriat]

agenda+ Functional user needs working session

13:28:11 [Chuck]

Chuck has joined #silver

13:30:42 [jeanne]

jeanne has joined #silver

13:30:52 [bruce_bailey]

bruce_bailey has joined #silver

13:31:03 [bruce_bailey]

present+

13:31:38 [jeanne]

agenda?

13:31:57 [jeanne]

present?

13:32:17 [jeanne]

zakim, who is on the phone?

13:32:17 [Zakim]

Present: jeanne, janina, Chuck, AngelaAccessForAll, shari, CharlesHall, pkorn, KimD, Lauriat, bruce_bailey

13:32:22 [jeanne]

present:

13:32:29 [Chuck]

present+

13:32:45 [jeanne]

present+ jeanne, Bruce, Chuck

13:33:20 [Makoto]

Makoto has joined #silver

13:33:53 [Lauriat]

Zakim, take up item 1

13:33:53 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "TPAC week schedule review" taken up [from Lauriat]

13:33:58 [Makoto]

present+

13:33:58 [jeanne]

scribe: jeanne

13:34:02 [Lauriat]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/2019_September_16-20_in_Fukuoka,_Japan

13:34:07 [jeanne]

zakim, take up item 1

13:34:07 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "TPAC week schedule review" taken up [from Lauriat]

13:34:46 [jeanne]

SL: There is now a time-based agenda outline, but we want to fill in what topics we will work on when.

13:35:29 [jeanne]

... we want to insure that people who have conflicts, like AC meetings and people with remote access in the US/Canada.

13:36:29 [jeanne]

... when do we want to talk about what topics?

13:37:06 [jeanne]

Rachael: I will be attending remotely. I am more interested in Conformance in the morning.

13:37:43 [jeanne]

Chuck: Conformance is a robust conversation and should be morning

13:38:49 [jeanne]

Bruce: Conformance discussion is easier for remote participation

13:40:01 [jeanne]

SL: Conformance in the JST morning

13:40:50 [johnkirkwood]

present+

13:41:27 [jeanne]

... First topic will be How to Evaluate

13:43:36 [jeanne]

SL: Monday morning first: Evaluating Conformance

13:43:55 [jeanne]

... Monday 2 slot: Issues and Exceptions

13:44:13 [jeanne]

... Tuesday 1 slot: Issues and Exceptions

13:44:34 [jeanne]

... Tuesday 2 slot: Comparing Pros and Cons (if we get to it)

13:44:48 [jeanne]

SL: Content topics

13:45:03 [jeanne]

... Monday 3 slot: Functional User needs

13:45:35 [jeanne]

... Monday 4 slot: Building up tests

13:47:17 [jeanne]

... Tuesday 3 slot: New content?

13:48:35 [jeanne]

Jeanne: Are we ready to do new content? We haven't finished one SC to use a model

13:48:59 [johnkirkwood]

present+

13:49:03 [jeanne]

Rachael: I don't have a strong opinion, but it seems like it would be better to have a finished SC to use as a model

13:49:19 [jeanne]

Jeanne: I propose dropping that topic for TPAC

13:49:44 [jeanne]

Shawn: I would like to continue "building up tests" because the first session will be identifying the problem

13:50:00 [Chuck]

q+

13:50:05 [jeanne]

... we have the Identifying Language prototype

13:50:30 [jeanne]

... the second session will be about how to build up the tests and make them easy to understand and use.

13:51:04 [jeanne]

... one test with one set of outlines to evaluate

13:51:06 [Chuck]

ack Chuck

13:51:57 [jeanne]

Jeanne: We have more examples than identifying language. We have some SC who have tests and methods sketched out.

13:52:13 [jeanne]

SL: The last session to be the Silver project plan.

13:53:49 [jeanne]

... the project plan needs I plan to organize that outline into something more sensible.

13:54:02 [jeanne]

... it's part of a larger conversation with the chairs

13:54:24 [jeanne]

... some will be working with the group

13:54:38 [jeanne]

... we need to enroll people and track the work.

13:56:08 [jeanne]

zakim, take up next

13:56:08 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Functional user needs working session" taken up [from Lauriat]

13:56:52 [Lauriat]

Functional needs for sensory characteristics: https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/71

13:57:43 [Lauriat]

In the working outline: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit#heading=h.oks9pxyygjow

14:01:13 [Lauriat]

From Charles' comment: "Copy and paste the ‘Benefits’ bullets (or ‘Intent’ statement when no Benefits provided) from each Understanding Doc; then edit the copy to convert disability-first or person-first language into functional needs. Then, add any functional needs that may be unique to the grouping of SC or any that may have been missed in the Understanding Docs."

14:01:48 [Lauriat]

Example: Original benefit of 1.4.1: “Some older users may not be able to see color well.” Edited functional need: “Usage with limited color perception due to: human factors (like age); technical factors (like display quality); or contextual factors (like bright ambient light).”

14:05:16 [Lauriat]

SC 1.2.2 Captions (Prerecorded), SC 1.2.4 Captions (Live), SC 1.2.6 Sign Language (Prerecorded): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit#heading=h.fpeqlt9qnga1

14:09:16 [Lauriat]

Functional needs for captions and sign language: https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/70

14:09:37 [Chuck]

scribe: Chuck

14:10:05 [Chuck]

Jeanne: Trying to address students with downs syndrom... <more detailed reading>

14:10:17 [Chuck]

Jeanne: Lucy had comment "spoken words not audio"

14:10:24 [Chuck]

Lauriat: I responded to that one.

14:10:37 [Chuck]

Lauriat: People forget about captions for spans of silence is essential.

14:10:45 [Chuck]

Lauriat: Otherwise you don't know there is silence.

14:10:54 [Chuck]

Jeanne: I'll move that into the definition of audio.

14:11:02 [Chuck]

Jeanne: Putting it in methods.

14:11:05 [Chuck]

Lauriat: Cool.

14:11:08 [Chuck]

Lauriat: Next...

14:11:12 [Lauriat]

Functional needs for alternative content for audio and video: https://github.com/w3c/silver/issues/69

14:11:21 [Lauriat]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit#heading=h.wybvadozdbds

14:11:38 [Chuck]

Lauriat: Charles noted complete. Having a look.

14:12:21 [Chuck]

Lauriat: <reads from content, on usages and needs>

14:13:46 [Chuck]

Lauriat: I needed a refresher. This was specifically looking at the media alternatives. Rather than being specifically caption...

14:13:58 [Chuck]

Lauriat: About alternative content. Functional user needs sounds like preceding one.

14:14:36 [Chuck]

Jeanne: The difference is the one Jan did was oriented towards sign language.

14:14:40 [Chuck]

Lauriat: Also covered captioning.

14:14:47 [Chuck]

Jeanne: Think these need to be merged?

14:15:05 [Chuck]

Lauriat: Not sure. Part of challenge is the functional user needs, I was thinking in terms of for a specific context what does the user need to do?

14:15:22 [Chuck]

Lauriat: Context is very specific to video.

14:15:46 [Chuck]

Lauriat: Some of the usages at the high level are user needs. Would be one to many relationship between them and the functional groupings.

14:15:51 [Chuck]

ok

14:15:58 [Chuck]

thx

14:16:26 [jeanne]

Lauriat: usage without vision will apply to just about everything we have here.

14:16:46 [jeanne]

... it's an unexpected direction

14:16:51 [jeanne]

... thoughts?

14:18:11 [jeanne]

SL: My challenge is that the functional user needs are going into a higher level than anticipated. In the example of video content, the user needs are "usage without vision". I don't know that it is a bad approach, but I want to know the group input,

14:18:22 [jeanne]

JohnK: What are examples of lower level?

14:18:32 [Lauriat]

Example from captions & sign language: "Users cannot hear all or part of the audio component of movies and multimedia."

14:21:04 [jeanne]

Jeanne: The section on Style NOtes for Functional Needs was what we talked about on Friday: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit#heading=h.wybvadozdbds

14:21:52 [jeanne]

SL: The tests of functional needs that we will get into next week will necessarily get to a lower level.

14:22:18 [jeanne]

SL: Back to the Media Alternative grouping:

14:22:37 [jeanne]

... there is another set of strikeout information and some overlapping information.

14:23:04 [Lauriat]

Overlapping: "Usage with limited hearing or without hearing" and "Usage with limited vision or without vision and with limited hearing or without hearing."

14:28:12 [jeanne]

... Should we include intersectionality? We could end up having massive lists of intersections

14:29:40 [jeanne]

jeanne: I think intersectionality should only be included when it has an inpact on the solution. For example, with captions, the needs of people with hearing loss are different from the needs of hearing and vision loss.

14:29:57 [jeanne]

SL: I think we should call this one not fully reviewed.

14:30:27 [jeanne]

topic: Review TPAC page and note the other meetings that are scheduled that people may want to attend.

14:30:45 [jeanne]

... we have asked for Remote participation WebEx links and will post them when we get them.

14:30:52 [jeanne]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:30:52 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-silver-minutes.html jeanne

14:31:14 [jeanne]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:31:41 [jeanne]

present+ Rachael

14:32:03 [jeanne]

chair: Shawn, jeanne

14:33:31 [jeanne]

s/ok//

14:33:36 [jeanne]

s/thx//

14:33:43 [jeanne]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:33:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-silver-minutes.html jeanne

14:35:19 [stevelee]

stevelee has joined #silver

14:35:46 [jeanne]

SL: Reminder that we will not have regular phone meetings on the week of 16-20 September. Instead we will be having the all-day TPAC F2F meeting

14:35:52 [jeanne]

rrsgaent, make minutes

14:36:23 [jeanne]

regrets+ Janina, Charles, Jan

14:36:28 [jeanne]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:36:28 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-silver-minutes.html jeanne

14:36:51 [jeanne]

present+ Shawn

14:36:59 [jeanne]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:36:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-silver-minutes.html jeanne

14:37:20 [jeanne]

s/present?//

14:38:07 [jeanne]

trackbot, end meeting

14:38:07 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

14:38:07 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been Chuck, jeanne, Bruce, Makoto, johnkirkwood, Rachael, Shawn

14:38:15 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

14:38:15 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-silver-minutes.html trackbot

14:38:16 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

14:38:16 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items