IRC log of auto on 2019-09-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

01:48:33 [Karen]
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16:00:19 [RRSAgent]
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16:00:19 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-auto-irc
16:00:21 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:00:21 [Zakim]
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16:00:23 [trackbot]
Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference
16:00:23 [trackbot]
Date: 10 September 2019
16:03:08 [magnus]
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16:29:28 [ted]
Topic: Meetup reaction
16:29:37 [ted]
-> https://www.meetup.com/Silicon-Valley-Automotive-Open-Source/events/264114649/ Meetup registrants
16:29:37 [ted]
several showed up without registering eg us, Volvo and a few others
16:29:37 [ted]
-> https://www.w3.org/2019/Talks/tg-meetup/ Ted's meetup slides
16:29:37 [ted]
Adnan and Peter's to be sent to public-automotive
16:30:51 [ted]
@@Autonomic, Ford, Honda, LG - make intros by email so I can follow up and/or you are welcome to
16:31:38 [ted]
from Q&A data integrity metadata, realtime/latency considerations for eg v2x use cases (from Lynn @ Ford)
16:32:13 [Harjot]
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16:32:16 [t2]
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16:40:52 [ted]
discussion/recap of web payments task force which was of interest to an OEM in the room
16:44:09 [ted]
discussion of VSS gaps and EV signals - agreed in Munich after vss2.0 release. BMW, Siemens, others
16:45:36 [ted]
@@CharinEV
16:46:04 [ted]
Glenn: NIST is holding a meeting on cybersecurity Thursday 12 Sept for EVSE
16:49:39 [magnus]
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17:02:22 [ted]
Magnus: if we are taking up v2x use case, do we care about the bandwidth of the data channel? 802.11p is limited
17:03:31 [ted]
Ted: uuid gh issue for vss will help, terser than full descriptive label
17:04:14 [ted]
Adnan: do we have to take that into account, it is a limitation of the network layer
17:04:32 [ted]
Magnus: yes but you cannot ignore it either given time sensitivity
17:04:57 [ted]
Ulf: you should accomodate condensed transmission like using uuids, which helps this use case
17:05:20 [ted]
… not sure we need to do more in spec itself
17:07:32 [ted]
Glenn: have we reached out to OmniAir? they are responsible for v2v safety message
17:07:43 [ted]
Ted: no, just ITS
17:08:23 [ted]
Glenn: we should reach out to them, they're pretty advanced at this point
17:08:37 [ted]
Ted: too late then probably for v2v but possibly still for v2i
17:10:21 [ted]
… still relevant for translating instead of having to do custom v2v app per oem
17:10:34 [Peterw]
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17:10:36 [ted]
Magnus: wanted to be sure scope isn't changing
17:19:09 [ted]
Topic: ViWi/VSS options
17:19:26 [ted]
[prep for larger group discussion, wiki from end of yesterday]
17:19:50 [ted]
s/wiki from/wiki generated from whiteboard/
17:20:15 [ted]
https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Viws
17:25:58 [ted]
[tangent on Graph, who (redacted) is prototyping what based on VSSo and interest in having a demo, how that would be useful]
17:30:07 [ted]
Agreement on wanting to create GraphQL PoC/demo with VSSo
17:30:31 [ted]
Adnan shares a Youtube video (one less redaction), will provide link for minutes
17:30:38 [magnus]
link?
17:32:11 [ted]
(err video is 'unlisted' so still somewhat redacted... sending in personal mail, not to list)
17:32:28 [ted]
(awaiting ok from conf organizers or similar)
17:37:14 [ted]
Ted: I had on agenda what this group can work on while this circular viwi/viss/gen2 debate does another lap
17:41:14 [Ado]
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17:41:27 [Ado]
https://blog.mirumee.com/highlights-from-the-graphql-summit-2018-in-san-francisco-49d7ab20f5cd
17:55:49 [ted]
Ted: I will fill in the wiki more and encourage others to as well. not expecting us to resolve this at f2f unfortunately
17:56:21 [ted]
Present+ Joakim, Adnan, Harjot, Glenn, Ulf, Ted, Peter, Magnus, PatrickL
17:57:30 [ted]
[discussion of uuid and tree position, need consistency if location changes]
18:05:46 [Peterw]
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18:10:28 [ted]
Adnan presents diagrams of analysis he and Daniel did on ViWi data
18:10:50 [ted]
Adnan: please correct our understanding. on third level you can have elements under a number of resources
18:11:12 [ted]
… we focused on use case/example data structure for media
18:11:32 [ted]
… we put some nodes together. we see this as more application centric than data centric
18:11:46 [ted]
… we really liked the registry approach
18:12:10 [ted]
… each service might come with its own overlapping data model
18:12:13 [ted]
[p3]
18:12:24 [ted]
PatrickL: could you go back to #2?
18:12:39 [ted]
… property would be the connecting link to that element
18:12:57 [ted]
… album has the artist pointing to the element artist
18:13:15 [ted]
Adnan: you would still have relationship end to end since you can have multiple, adding complexity
18:13:26 [ted]
… it is still valid, not being critical
18:14:11 [ted]
PatrickL: links go from property artist to element
18:14:18 [ted]
[p3]
18:14:44 [ted]
Adnan: if we try to map VSS data model to ViWi you can see replication of several resources within element
18:15:13 [ted]
… resource should not have elements such as isOpen, isLocked. not sure what sort of flexibility we might have there
18:15:45 [ted]
… each service could populate its own data model based on registry
18:16:17 [ted]
… what are your thoughts on how to find common solution
18:16:36 [ted]
PatrickL: there would be taxonomies for everything in vehicle and trees or subclasses for different use cases
18:16:43 [ted]
… to find those I would use something like registry
18:17:03 [ted]
… I have one taxonomy about everything in the vehicle
18:17:19 [ted]
Adnan: there could be multiple domains
18:17:45 [ted]
… you would have a data taxonomy for each and service registry would discover tree and expose
18:18:13 [ted]
PatrickL: would there be one implementation representing the whole vehicle signals or could it be split into several
18:18:25 [ted]
Ulf: one should strive for having one single entry
18:18:43 [ted]
PatrickL: that would not work with what we have, we cannot fit everything
18:19:13 [ted]
Adnan: do you have an example?
18:19:35 [ted]
PatrickL: we can have 4-5 implementations regarding seat and distributed, listed separately in registry
18:19:54 [ted]
Adnan: that is fine and could work, it is up to service registry on how to handle this
18:20:09 [ted]
… we want to map data to something understandable [to developer]
18:20:18 [ted]
… from service registry it would be mapped within the tree
18:20:40 [ted]
… you do not need to know what service is doing but want to use tree to find the data
18:20:54 [ted]
PatrickL: ok, was confused by the one implementation
18:21:05 [ted]
Adnan: how to approach and resolve...
18:21:13 [ted]
PatrickL: service/resource/element
18:21:48 [ted]
… every category of element that is the same type, eg seat, is a resource and every bundle has elements
18:22:05 [ted]
… service/resource/element is about type and not tree representation
18:22:25 [ted]
Adnan: yeah but you would break the taxonomy, exposing the tree
18:22:52 [ted]
… can we find a common solution where we use existing parts from ViWi and modify things based on tree taxonomy of eg VSS
18:23:13 [ted]
PatrickL: this matches quite well with my pull request from earlier in the year
18:23:47 [ted]
… it allows for a graph and not only a tree. it does not follow service/resource/element way but chains
18:24:01 [ted]
Adnan: that would be ok with you in VW?
18:24:06 [ted]
PatrickL: yeah
18:24:27 [ted]
Ulf: so you're saying we can keep arbitrary depths? if so can you please provide some examples
18:24:45 [ted]
Adnan: maybe case of accessing pressure for tire, what is the path?
18:24:53 [ted]
PatrickL: currently not possible
18:25:01 [ted]
Adnan: but for the new ViWi
18:25:20 [ted]
PatrickL: I would create it for the element and property, worth doing to be understandable for developer
18:25:43 [ted]
… I would make 'blue bubbles' (cf diag) so you don't always have to go through the registry
18:26:02 [ted]
… the seat has a list and points to these four implementations, it would be a type of node
18:26:26 [ted]
Adnan: did you think as well about reverse compatibility for ViWi
18:26:39 [ted]
PatrickL: not interested in that but a good new protocol...
18:26:55 [ted]
… ok with breaking compatibility. what we have works fine for a developer
18:27:24 [joakim]
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18:27:50 [ted]
Ted: so you're back to Gen2 and not 'the other Patrick' interest in ViWi
18:28:21 [ted]
Ulf: what you say can then handle VSS as is and that scenario?
18:28:30 [ted]
PatrickL: of course as people are using it
18:29:01 [ted]
… I do think VSS could use some changes and no special types
18:36:48 [ted]
https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Viws
18:40:32 [ted]
Resolved: Gen2 revitalization
18:40:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-auto-minutes.html ted
19:56:34 [Zakim]
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20:47:10 [ted]
Topic: Graph prototype
20:48:25 [ted]
Glenn: objective is to expose the common data model to a broader audience of developers
20:50:00 [ted]
… we can present oem and data provider using this and then various participants can demo to various audiences at conferences
20:50:16 [ted]
… refine scope over the next few weeks
21:20:06 [ted]
[light minuting]
21:20:17 [ted]
Topic: Tire client app
21:20:21 [ted]
@@see notes
21:24:29 [ted]
Topic: Auto landing page
21:24:40 [ted]
https://www.w3.org/comm/assets/staging/auto/
21:24:47 [ted]
https://www.w3.org/auto/ old
21:25:45 [ted]
Harjot: I suggest s/Big Data/data analytics/
21:31:02 [ted]
Ted: I guess s/in-vehicle and cross-vehicle applications/in-vehicle, cross-vehicle and cloud based applications/
21:32:44 [ted]
Glenn: s/might incorporate other transportation modes or address general public safety issues./might incorporate other transportation modes, address general public safety issues and SmartCity (v2i) interactions./
21:34:26 [ted]
Ted: s/blizzard/confusing array/
21:37:42 [ted]
… s versions proprietary interfaces
21:38:09 [ted]
… s Web applications applications
21:38:36 [ted]
… s next version next generation
21:39:19 [ted]
… with accompanying reference / demo implementations
21:40:41 [ted]
… is primarily focused on/is
21:41:47 [ted]
_W3C_ Web of Things
21:42:29 [ted]
associated - stemming from. example based on / leveraging
21:43:01 [ted]
drop the other domains for now on landing page
21:43:34 [ted]
descr on wg & bg from onboard email
21:44:20 [ted]
comment out <p> starting with Applications, of course,
21:48:10 [ted]
comment out related auto until we get other sdo liaisons
21:54:22 [ted]
Harjot: I am happy to take a pass at it as well if you throw into a google doc
21:54:26 [ted]
Ted: will do
21:56:19 [ted]
Topic: Workshop prep
21:56:20 [ted]
https://www.w3.org/2019/07/trans-data-ws/agenda
22:21:54 [ted]
(raw notes, see real agenda page https://www.w3.org/Data/events/data-ws-2019/schedule which will be edited heavily tomorrow w slides, presenters and talk titles)
22:22:13 [ted]
Topic: review of draft Graph project
22:22:46 [ted]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ACoHvQZQTgJF41gIvM48RfoG695O58AUjdvGATGBB6k/edit?usp=sharing_eil&ts=5d781dc9
22:34:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-auto-minutes.html ted