IRC log of auto on 2019-09-10
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 01:48:33 [Karen]
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- 16:00:19 [RRSAgent]
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- 16:00:19 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-auto-irc
- 16:00:21 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 16:00:21 [Zakim]
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- 16:00:23 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference
- 16:00:23 [trackbot]
- Date: 10 September 2019
- 16:03:08 [magnus]
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- 16:29:28 [ted]
- Topic: Meetup reaction
- 16:29:37 [ted]
- -> https://www.meetup.com/Silicon-Valley-Automotive-Open-Source/events/264114649/ Meetup registrants
- 16:29:37 [ted]
- several showed up without registering eg us, Volvo and a few others
- 16:29:37 [ted]
- -> https://www.w3.org/2019/Talks/tg-meetup/ Ted's meetup slides
- 16:29:37 [ted]
- Adnan and Peter's to be sent to public-automotive
- 16:30:51 [ted]
- @@Autonomic, Ford, Honda, LG - make intros by email so I can follow up and/or you are welcome to
- 16:31:38 [ted]
- from Q&A data integrity metadata, realtime/latency considerations for eg v2x use cases (from Lynn @ Ford)
- 16:32:13 [Harjot]
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- 16:32:16 [t2]
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- 16:40:52 [ted]
- discussion/recap of web payments task force which was of interest to an OEM in the room
- 16:44:09 [ted]
- discussion of VSS gaps and EV signals - agreed in Munich after vss2.0 release. BMW, Siemens, others
- 16:45:36 [ted]
- @@CharinEV
- 16:46:04 [ted]
- Glenn: NIST is holding a meeting on cybersecurity Thursday 12 Sept for EVSE
- 16:49:39 [magnus]
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- 17:02:22 [ted]
- Magnus: if we are taking up v2x use case, do we care about the bandwidth of the data channel? 802.11p is limited
- 17:03:31 [ted]
- Ted: uuid gh issue for vss will help, terser than full descriptive label
- 17:04:14 [ted]
- Adnan: do we have to take that into account, it is a limitation of the network layer
- 17:04:32 [ted]
- Magnus: yes but you cannot ignore it either given time sensitivity
- 17:04:57 [ted]
- Ulf: you should accomodate condensed transmission like using uuids, which helps this use case
- 17:05:20 [ted]
- … not sure we need to do more in spec itself
- 17:07:32 [ted]
- Glenn: have we reached out to OmniAir? they are responsible for v2v safety message
- 17:07:43 [ted]
- Ted: no, just ITS
- 17:08:23 [ted]
- Glenn: we should reach out to them, they're pretty advanced at this point
- 17:08:37 [ted]
- Ted: too late then probably for v2v but possibly still for v2i
- 17:10:21 [ted]
- … still relevant for translating instead of having to do custom v2v app per oem
- 17:10:34 [Peterw]
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- 17:10:36 [ted]
- Magnus: wanted to be sure scope isn't changing
- 17:19:09 [ted]
- Topic: ViWi/VSS options
- 17:19:26 [ted]
- [prep for larger group discussion, wiki from end of yesterday]
- 17:19:50 [ted]
- s/wiki from/wiki generated from whiteboard/
- 17:20:15 [ted]
- https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Viws
- 17:25:58 [ted]
- [tangent on Graph, who (redacted) is prototyping what based on VSSo and interest in having a demo, how that would be useful]
- 17:30:07 [ted]
- Agreement on wanting to create GraphQL PoC/demo with VSSo
- 17:30:31 [ted]
- Adnan shares a Youtube video (one less redaction), will provide link for minutes
- 17:30:38 [magnus]
- link?
- 17:32:11 [ted]
- (err video is 'unlisted' so still somewhat redacted... sending in personal mail, not to list)
- 17:32:28 [ted]
- (awaiting ok from conf organizers or similar)
- 17:37:14 [ted]
- Ted: I had on agenda what this group can work on while this circular viwi/viss/gen2 debate does another lap
- 17:41:14 [Ado]
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- 17:41:27 [Ado]
- https://blog.mirumee.com/highlights-from-the-graphql-summit-2018-in-san-francisco-49d7ab20f5cd
- 17:55:49 [ted]
- Ted: I will fill in the wiki more and encourage others to as well. not expecting us to resolve this at f2f unfortunately
- 17:56:21 [ted]
- Present+ Joakim, Adnan, Harjot, Glenn, Ulf, Ted, Peter, Magnus, PatrickL
- 17:57:30 [ted]
- [discussion of uuid and tree position, need consistency if location changes]
- 18:05:46 [Peterw]
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- 18:10:28 [ted]
- Adnan presents diagrams of analysis he and Daniel did on ViWi data
- 18:10:50 [ted]
- Adnan: please correct our understanding. on third level you can have elements under a number of resources
- 18:11:12 [ted]
- … we focused on use case/example data structure for media
- 18:11:32 [ted]
- … we put some nodes together. we see this as more application centric than data centric
- 18:11:46 [ted]
- … we really liked the registry approach
- 18:12:10 [ted]
- … each service might come with its own overlapping data model
- 18:12:13 [ted]
- [p3]
- 18:12:24 [ted]
- PatrickL: could you go back to #2?
- 18:12:39 [ted]
- … property would be the connecting link to that element
- 18:12:57 [ted]
- … album has the artist pointing to the element artist
- 18:13:15 [ted]
- Adnan: you would still have relationship end to end since you can have multiple, adding complexity
- 18:13:26 [ted]
- … it is still valid, not being critical
- 18:14:11 [ted]
- PatrickL: links go from property artist to element
- 18:14:18 [ted]
- [p3]
- 18:14:44 [ted]
- Adnan: if we try to map VSS data model to ViWi you can see replication of several resources within element
- 18:15:13 [ted]
- … resource should not have elements such as isOpen, isLocked. not sure what sort of flexibility we might have there
- 18:15:45 [ted]
- … each service could populate its own data model based on registry
- 18:16:17 [ted]
- … what are your thoughts on how to find common solution
- 18:16:36 [ted]
- PatrickL: there would be taxonomies for everything in vehicle and trees or subclasses for different use cases
- 18:16:43 [ted]
- … to find those I would use something like registry
- 18:17:03 [ted]
- … I have one taxonomy about everything in the vehicle
- 18:17:19 [ted]
- Adnan: there could be multiple domains
- 18:17:45 [ted]
- … you would have a data taxonomy for each and service registry would discover tree and expose
- 18:18:13 [ted]
- PatrickL: would there be one implementation representing the whole vehicle signals or could it be split into several
- 18:18:25 [ted]
- Ulf: one should strive for having one single entry
- 18:18:43 [ted]
- PatrickL: that would not work with what we have, we cannot fit everything
- 18:19:13 [ted]
- Adnan: do you have an example?
- 18:19:35 [ted]
- PatrickL: we can have 4-5 implementations regarding seat and distributed, listed separately in registry
- 18:19:54 [ted]
- Adnan: that is fine and could work, it is up to service registry on how to handle this
- 18:20:09 [ted]
- … we want to map data to something understandable [to developer]
- 18:20:18 [ted]
- … from service registry it would be mapped within the tree
- 18:20:40 [ted]
- … you do not need to know what service is doing but want to use tree to find the data
- 18:20:54 [ted]
- PatrickL: ok, was confused by the one implementation
- 18:21:05 [ted]
- Adnan: how to approach and resolve...
- 18:21:13 [ted]
- PatrickL: service/resource/element
- 18:21:48 [ted]
- … every category of element that is the same type, eg seat, is a resource and every bundle has elements
- 18:22:05 [ted]
- … service/resource/element is about type and not tree representation
- 18:22:25 [ted]
- Adnan: yeah but you would break the taxonomy, exposing the tree
- 18:22:52 [ted]
- … can we find a common solution where we use existing parts from ViWi and modify things based on tree taxonomy of eg VSS
- 18:23:13 [ted]
- PatrickL: this matches quite well with my pull request from earlier in the year
- 18:23:47 [ted]
- … it allows for a graph and not only a tree. it does not follow service/resource/element way but chains
- 18:24:01 [ted]
- Adnan: that would be ok with you in VW?
- 18:24:06 [ted]
- PatrickL: yeah
- 18:24:27 [ted]
- Ulf: so you're saying we can keep arbitrary depths? if so can you please provide some examples
- 18:24:45 [ted]
- Adnan: maybe case of accessing pressure for tire, what is the path?
- 18:24:53 [ted]
- PatrickL: currently not possible
- 18:25:01 [ted]
- Adnan: but for the new ViWi
- 18:25:20 [ted]
- PatrickL: I would create it for the element and property, worth doing to be understandable for developer
- 18:25:43 [ted]
- … I would make 'blue bubbles' (cf diag) so you don't always have to go through the registry
- 18:26:02 [ted]
- … the seat has a list and points to these four implementations, it would be a type of node
- 18:26:26 [ted]
- Adnan: did you think as well about reverse compatibility for ViWi
- 18:26:39 [ted]
- PatrickL: not interested in that but a good new protocol...
- 18:26:55 [ted]
- … ok with breaking compatibility. what we have works fine for a developer
- 18:27:24 [joakim]
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- 18:27:50 [ted]
- Ted: so you're back to Gen2 and not 'the other Patrick' interest in ViWi
- 18:28:21 [ted]
- Ulf: what you say can then handle VSS as is and that scenario?
- 18:28:30 [ted]
- PatrickL: of course as people are using it
- 18:29:01 [ted]
- … I do think VSS could use some changes and no special types
- 18:36:48 [ted]
- https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Viws
- 18:40:32 [ted]
- Resolved: Gen2 revitalization
- 18:40:34 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-auto-minutes.html ted
- 19:56:34 [Zakim]
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- 20:47:10 [ted]
- Topic: Graph prototype
- 20:48:25 [ted]
- Glenn: objective is to expose the common data model to a broader audience of developers
- 20:50:00 [ted]
- … we can present oem and data provider using this and then various participants can demo to various audiences at conferences
- 20:50:16 [ted]
- … refine scope over the next few weeks
- 21:20:06 [ted]
- [light minuting]
- 21:20:17 [ted]
- Topic: Tire client app
- 21:20:21 [ted]
- @@see notes
- 21:24:29 [ted]
- Topic: Auto landing page
- 21:24:40 [ted]
- https://www.w3.org/comm/assets/staging/auto/
- 21:24:47 [ted]
- https://www.w3.org/auto/ old
- 21:25:45 [ted]
- Harjot: I suggest s/Big Data/data analytics/
- 21:31:02 [ted]
- Ted: I guess s/in-vehicle and cross-vehicle applications/in-vehicle, cross-vehicle and cloud based applications/
- 21:32:44 [ted]
- Glenn: s/might incorporate other transportation modes or address general public safety issues./might incorporate other transportation modes, address general public safety issues and SmartCity (v2i) interactions./
- 21:34:26 [ted]
- Ted: s/blizzard/confusing array/
- 21:37:42 [ted]
- … s versions proprietary interfaces
- 21:38:09 [ted]
- … s Web applications applications
- 21:38:36 [ted]
- … s next version next generation
- 21:39:19 [ted]
- … with accompanying reference / demo implementations
- 21:40:41 [ted]
- … is primarily focused on/is
- 21:41:47 [ted]
- _W3C_ Web of Things
- 21:42:29 [ted]
- associated - stemming from. example based on / leveraging
- 21:43:01 [ted]
- drop the other domains for now on landing page
- 21:43:34 [ted]
- descr on wg & bg from onboard email
- 21:44:20 [ted]
- comment out <p> starting with Applications, of course,
- 21:48:10 [ted]
- comment out related auto until we get other sdo liaisons
- 21:54:22 [ted]
- Harjot: I am happy to take a pass at it as well if you throw into a google doc
- 21:54:26 [ted]
- Ted: will do
- 21:56:19 [ted]
- Topic: Workshop prep
- 21:56:20 [ted]
- https://www.w3.org/2019/07/trans-data-ws/agenda
- 22:21:54 [ted]
- (raw notes, see real agenda page https://www.w3.org/Data/events/data-ws-2019/schedule which will be edited heavily tomorrow w slides, presenters and talk titles)
- 22:22:13 [ted]
- Topic: review of draft Graph project
- 22:22:46 [ted]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ACoHvQZQTgJF41gIvM48RfoG695O58AUjdvGATGBB6k/edit?usp=sharing_eil&ts=5d781dc9
- 22:34:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-auto-minutes.html ted