18:01:35 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:01:35 logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-irc 18:01:49 rrsagent, make log public 18:02:16 present+ 18:02:22 present+ jongund 18:02:27 present+ 18:02:28 MEETING: September 10, 2019 Authoring Practices Task Force Telecon 18:02:36 rrsagent, make log public 18:02:45 CHAIR: Matt King 18:02:52 present+ Matt-King 18:02:59 rrsagent, make minutes 18:02:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-minutes.html mck 18:03:53 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:05:32 present+ 18:06:44 scribe: carmacleod 18:07:06 agenda? 18:07:51 Link to agenda: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-10%2C-2019-Meeting 18:08:15 present+ 18:09:04 agenda? 18:09:13 TOPIC: Future meetings 18:09:16 agenda link: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-10%2C-2019-Meeting 18:10:10 TOPIC: Third Working Draft Milestone Review 18:10:48 present + 18:10:58 we can hear you 18:12:12 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/10 18:13:13 I got audio working for me just before that happened :) 18:13:24 mck: when will we push this out? Was it supposed to be Friday? 18:13:34 jamesn: It hasn't happened yet 18:13:50 jamesn: if it doesn't happen until after TPAC, that's ok 18:14:00 regrets+ EvanYamanishi 18:14:53 mck: currently have 7 things in that branch that are ready to go 18:16:43 mck: jon pushed change to menu where it should use data attribute 18:16:56 mck: car made changes to IDL button 18:17:07 mck: so we are up to 9 done 18:17:30 I also seem to remember Sarah taking up 18:18:36 jamesn: meter pattern - was Sarah going to update that? 18:19:02 mck: meter may not make the third working draft 18:19:07 jamesn: that's ok 18:19:18 TOPIC: APG language for new ARIA features 18:20:07 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1150 18:20:48 jamesn: this isn't about anything new introduced in aria 18:21:00 Sarah_Higley has joined #aria-apg 18:21:57 q+ I don't think it'd hurt 18:22:16 mck: should we add info to apg about how slider/spinbutton doesn't work in VO? 18:22:58 I don't think it'd hurt to add some caveats where necessary, along with what jamesn is saying. 18:23:08 jamesn: I recommend that people don't use slider/spinbutton roles because they don't work in all AT 18:23:41 mck: sounds like there are certain patterns that we should put warnings on 18:23:54 jamesn: I do want to get them fixed... 18:24:04 I think that, though we may not recommend certain things, folks looking for resrouces might not know that, and know that APG is a good source. So it may indeed be good, in the interim 18:27:12 q+ 18:27:14 mck: does someone want to take this on and figure out what type of warning to put on certain patterns and where we should put it 18:27:46 I could try to take a stab at a message over the next week 18:27:56 Probably basically noting what you just said Matt 18:28:40 jamesn: need to get the 2nd phase of AOM done, which will solve this problem of missing API 18:29:02 mck: patterns would have to be redone to listen for AOM events 18:29:47 mck: but for now, perhaps we need to say which patterns have problems? 18:30:36 bye 18:31:23 +1 to Sarah's comment on offering remediation after using some APG examples 18:31:54 mck: bottom line is you have to test 18:32:55 mck: if no takers right now, will add it to the milestone for release 1 18:33:20 feeling FOMO over here :D 18:33:47 carmacleod: I had opened an issue saying consider similar concepts. maybe it could go in the same area as that - suggesting other "things to consider" 18:34:02 carmacleod: something like "consider using this HTML thing instead because XYZ" 18:34:31 carmacleod: it'd be just text, probably link to HTML spec. just spitballing right now though 18:35:35 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/633 18:36:27 mck: draft prs are always welcome 18:36:42 +1 to Mark & Zoe's +1s 18:37:21 TOPIC: open examples in CodePen 18:38:09 CurtBellew_ has joined #aria-apg 18:38:28 Codepen link looks awesome 18:38:33 mck: example: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/issue1102-open-example-codepen/examples/slider/multithumb-slider.html 18:38:42 Codepen doesn't work in IE (for testing) unless it uses debug links 18:38:50 mck: there's a button that opens the code in CodePen 18:39:06 mck: do people like this idea? 18:39:08 Feature request to automatically run tidy on the HTML 18:39:34 car: I like it! 18:39:39 +1 to style and placement 18:41:27 jamesn: should it be a link or a button? 18:41:35 mck: opens in new tab 18:42:06 jamesn: maybe don't have heading - just button (or link) 18:43:08 mck: please add feedback to https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1110 18:43:23 TOPIC: TPAC Combobox Discussion Preparation 18:44:28 mck: will send out to the list before TPAC 18:44:44 mck: slide 3 explains evolution of combobox 18:45:37 mck: essentially a textbox with a combobox inside of it 18:45:50 ... for 1.0 18:46:26 mck: for 1.1 combobox changed to a container with a textbox and sibling listbox 18:47:26 mck: slide 4 the problem is that because listbox was owned by textbox, many AT couldn't see listbox 18:48:14 mck: the only way to perceive the options in the listbox was to have screen reader in forms mode and it would read aria-activedescendants 18:48:41 mck: in 1.1, combobox is now container, problem is it's not focusable 18:49:06 mck: combobox role is on non-focusable container 18:49:32 mck: because of big changes, screen readers did't figure out how to support it 18:49:49 mck: there were naming issues, we discussed those in May 18:51:58 mck: for 1.2, proposal is to go back to 1.0 structure, but listbox is controlled by textbox instead of owned by 18:52:40 ... similar to menubutton that controls menu 18:53:38 ... nicest part of this proposal is we wouldn't have to change any screen readers 18:54:26 ... 1 line of html, 1 line of js, works awesome (better than 1.0 pattern, better than 1.1 pattern) 18:54:59 q+ 18:55:26 mck: tested in JAWS/NVDA with Chrome/FF, VO with Safari, Narrator with Edge 18:55:46 q 18:56:11 ack jamesn 18:56:28 Good point James 18:56:48 ack me 18:57:04 jamesn: we need to have this conversation with MS before TPAC 19:01:43 sarah: native windows combobox is a container - inspect.exe - has textbox and listbox children 19:02:14 s/inspect.exe/explorer.exe 19:04:08 sarah: I will definitely talk to Melanie and the team 19:04:28 mck: need to look also at select size=1 19:04:52 ... this proposal is in some ways an attempt to emulate select size=1 19:05:19 ... somehow UIA is representing select size=1 as a combobox (without a wrapper) 19:06:05 sarah: it doesn't have a child edit 19:07:00 mck: I will have a draft version ready today - will send to the aria list 19:07:21 zakim, who is on the call? 19:07:21 Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn 19:08:05 present+ curt_bellew 19:09:25 present+ Sarah_Higley 19:09:40 zakim, who is on the call? 19:09:40 Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley 19:10:07 present+ bryan 19:10:18 zakim, who is on the call? 19:10:18 Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley, bryan 19:10:27 zakim, bye 19:10:27 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley, bryan 19:10:27 Zakim has left #aria-apg 19:10:38 rrsagent, make minutes 19:10:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-minutes.html carmacleod