18:01:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:01:35 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-irc 18:01:49 <mck> rrsagent, make log public 18:02:16 <ZoeBijl> present+ 18:02:22 <jongund> present+ jongund 18:02:27 <MarkMccarthy> present+ 18:02:28 <mck> MEETING: September 10, 2019 Authoring Practices Task Force Telecon 18:02:36 <mck> rrsagent, make log public 18:02:45 <mck> CHAIR: Matt King 18:02:52 <mck> present+ Matt-King 18:02:59 <mck> rrsagent, make minutes 18:02:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-minutes.html mck 18:03:53 <CurtBellew> CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:05:32 <carmacleod> present+ 18:06:44 <carmacleod> scribe: carmacleod 18:07:06 <carmacleod> agenda? 18:07:51 <MarkMccarthy> Link to agenda: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-10%2C-2019-Meeting 18:08:15 <jamesn> present+ 18:09:04 <carmacleod> agenda? 18:09:13 <MarkMccarthy> TOPIC: Future meetings 18:09:16 <mck> agenda link: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-10%2C-2019-Meeting 18:10:10 <carmacleod> TOPIC: Third Working Draft Milestone Review 18:10:48 <CurtBellew> present + 18:10:58 <jongund> we can hear you 18:12:12 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/10 18:13:13 <CurtBellew> I got audio working for me just before that happened :) 18:13:24 <carmacleod> mck: when will we push this out? Was it supposed to be Friday? 18:13:34 <carmacleod> jamesn: It hasn't happened yet 18:13:50 <carmacleod> jamesn: if it doesn't happen until after TPAC, that's ok 18:14:00 <MarkMccarthy> regrets+ EvanYamanishi 18:14:53 <carmacleod> mck: currently have 7 things in that branch that are ready to go 18:16:43 <carmacleod> mck: jon pushed change to menu where it should use data attribute 18:16:56 <carmacleod> mck: car made changes to IDL button 18:17:07 <carmacleod> mck: so we are up to 9 done 18:17:30 <MarkMccarthy> I also seem to remember Sarah taking up <meter> 18:18:36 <carmacleod> jamesn: meter pattern - was Sarah going to update that? 18:19:02 <carmacleod> mck: meter may not make the third working draft 18:19:07 <carmacleod> jamesn: that's ok 18:19:18 <carmacleod> TOPIC: APG language for new ARIA features 18:20:07 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1150 18:20:48 <carmacleod> jamesn: this isn't about anything new introduced in aria 18:21:00 <Sarah_Higley> Sarah_Higley has joined #aria-apg 18:21:57 <MarkMccarthy> q+ I don't think it'd hurt 18:22:16 <carmacleod> mck: should we add info to apg about how slider/spinbutton doesn't work in VO? 18:22:58 <MarkMccarthy> I don't think it'd hurt to add some caveats where necessary, along with what jamesn is saying. 18:23:08 <carmacleod> jamesn: I recommend that people don't use slider/spinbutton roles because they don't work in all AT 18:23:41 <carmacleod> mck: sounds like there are certain patterns that we should put warnings on 18:23:54 <carmacleod> jamesn: I do want to get them fixed... 18:24:04 <MarkMccarthy> I think that, though we may not recommend certain things, folks looking for resrouces might not know that, and know that APG is a good source. So it may indeed be good, in the interim 18:27:12 <jamesn> q+ 18:27:14 <carmacleod> mck: does someone want to take this on and figure out what type of warning to put on certain patterns and where we should put it 18:27:46 <MarkMccarthy> I could try to take a stab at a message over the next week 18:27:56 <MarkMccarthy> Probably basically noting what you just said Matt 18:28:40 <carmacleod> jamesn: need to get the 2nd phase of AOM done, which will solve this problem of missing API 18:29:02 <carmacleod> mck: patterns would have to be redone to listen for AOM events 18:29:47 <carmacleod> mck: but for now, perhaps we need to say which patterns have problems? 18:30:36 <jongund> bye 18:31:23 <MarkMccarthy> +1 to Sarah's comment on offering remediation after using some APG examples 18:31:54 <carmacleod> mck: bottom line is you have to test 18:32:55 <carmacleod> mck: if no takers right now, will add it to the milestone for release 1 18:33:20 <Sarah_Higley> feeling FOMO over here :D 18:33:47 <MarkMccarthy> carmacleod: I had opened an issue saying consider similar concepts. maybe it could go in the same area as that - suggesting other "things to consider" 18:34:02 <MarkMccarthy> carmacleod: something like "consider using this HTML thing instead because XYZ" 18:34:31 <MarkMccarthy> carmacleod: it'd be just text, probably link to HTML spec. just spitballing right now though 18:35:35 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/633 18:36:27 <carmacleod> mck: draft prs are always welcome 18:36:42 <Sarah_Higley> +1 to Mark & Zoe's +1s 18:37:21 <carmacleod> TOPIC: open examples in CodePen 18:38:09 <CurtBellew_> CurtBellew_ has joined #aria-apg 18:38:28 <jamesn> Codepen link looks awesome 18:38:33 <carmacleod> mck: example: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/issue1102-open-example-codepen/examples/slider/multithumb-slider.html 18:38:42 <MarkMccarthy> Codepen doesn't work in IE (for testing) unless it uses debug links 18:38:50 <carmacleod> mck: there's a button that opens the code in CodePen 18:39:06 <carmacleod> mck: do people like this idea? 18:39:08 <jamesn> Feature request to automatically run tidy on the HTML 18:39:34 <carmacleod> car: I like it! 18:39:39 <MarkMccarthy> +1 to style and placement 18:41:27 <carmacleod> jamesn: should it be a link or a button? 18:41:35 <carmacleod> mck: opens in new tab 18:42:06 <carmacleod> jamesn: maybe don't have heading - just button (or link) 18:43:08 <carmacleod> mck: please add feedback to https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1110 18:43:23 <carmacleod> TOPIC: TPAC Combobox Discussion Preparation 18:44:28 <carmacleod> mck: will send out to the list before TPAC 18:44:44 <carmacleod> mck: slide 3 explains evolution of combobox 18:45:37 <carmacleod> mck: essentially a textbox with a combobox inside of it 18:45:50 <carmacleod> ... for 1.0 18:46:26 <carmacleod> mck: for 1.1 combobox changed to a container with a textbox and sibling listbox 18:47:26 <carmacleod> mck: slide 4 the problem is that because listbox was owned by textbox, many AT couldn't see listbox 18:48:14 <carmacleod> mck: the only way to perceive the options in the listbox was to have screen reader in forms mode and it would read aria-activedescendants 18:48:41 <carmacleod> mck: in 1.1, combobox is now container, problem is it's not focusable 18:49:06 <carmacleod> mck: combobox role is on non-focusable container 18:49:32 <carmacleod> mck: because of big changes, screen readers did't figure out how to support it 18:49:49 <carmacleod> mck: there were naming issues, we discussed those in May 18:51:58 <carmacleod> mck: for 1.2, proposal is to go back to 1.0 structure, but listbox is controlled by textbox instead of owned by 18:52:40 <carmacleod> ... similar to menubutton that controls menu 18:53:38 <carmacleod> ... nicest part of this proposal is we wouldn't have to change any screen readers 18:54:26 <carmacleod> ... 1 line of html, 1 line of js, works awesome (better than 1.0 pattern, better than 1.1 pattern) 18:54:59 <jamesn> q+ 18:55:26 <carmacleod> mck: tested in JAWS/NVDA with Chrome/FF, VO with Safari, Narrator with Edge 18:55:46 <carmacleod> q 18:56:11 <carmacleod> ack jamesn 18:56:28 <MarkMccarthy> Good point James 18:56:48 <jamesn> ack me 18:57:04 <carmacleod> jamesn: we need to have this conversation with MS before TPAC 19:01:43 <carmacleod> sarah: native windows combobox is a container - inspect.exe - has textbox and listbox children 19:02:14 <MarkMccarthy> s/inspect.exe/explorer.exe 19:04:08 <carmacleod> sarah: I will definitely talk to Melanie and the team 19:04:28 <carmacleod> mck: need to look also at select size=1 19:04:52 <carmacleod> ... this proposal is in some ways an attempt to emulate select size=1 19:05:19 <carmacleod> ... somehow UIA is representing select size=1 as a combobox (without a wrapper) 19:06:05 <carmacleod> sarah: it doesn't have a child edit 19:07:00 <carmacleod> mck: I will have a draft version ready today - will send to the aria list 19:07:21 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call? 19:07:21 <Zakim> Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn 19:08:05 <carmacleod> present+ curt_bellew 19:09:25 <carmacleod> present+ Sarah_Higley 19:09:40 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call? 19:09:40 <Zakim> Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley 19:10:07 <carmacleod> present+ bryan 19:10:18 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call? 19:10:18 <Zakim> Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley, bryan 19:10:27 <carmacleod> zakim, bye 19:10:27 <Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees have been ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley, bryan 19:10:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg 19:10:38 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes 19:10:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-minutes.html carmacleod