IRC log of aria-apg on 2019-09-10
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 18:01:35 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
- 18:01:35 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-irc
- 18:01:49 [mck]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 18:02:16 [ZoeBijl]
- present+
- 18:02:22 [jongund]
- present+ jongund
- 18:02:27 [MarkMccarthy]
- present+
- 18:02:28 [mck]
- MEETING: September 10, 2019 Authoring Practices Task Force Telecon
- 18:02:36 [mck]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 18:02:45 [mck]
- CHAIR: Matt King
- 18:02:52 [mck]
- present+ Matt-King
- 18:02:59 [mck]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:02:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-minutes.html mck
- 18:03:53 [CurtBellew]
- CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg
- 18:05:32 [carmacleod]
- present+
- 18:06:44 [carmacleod]
- scribe: carmacleod
- 18:07:06 [carmacleod]
- agenda?
- 18:07:51 [MarkMccarthy]
- Link to agenda: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-10%2C-2019-Meeting
- 18:08:15 [jamesn]
- present+
- 18:09:04 [carmacleod]
- agenda?
- 18:09:13 [MarkMccarthy]
- TOPIC: Future meetings
- 18:09:16 [mck]
- agenda link: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/September-10%2C-2019-Meeting
- 18:10:10 [carmacleod]
- TOPIC: Third Working Draft Milestone Review
- 18:10:48 [CurtBellew]
- present +
- 18:10:58 [jongund]
- we can hear you
- 18:12:12 [carmacleod]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/10
- 18:13:13 [CurtBellew]
- I got audio working for me just before that happened :)
- 18:13:24 [carmacleod]
- mck: when will we push this out? Was it supposed to be Friday?
- 18:13:34 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: It hasn't happened yet
- 18:13:50 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: if it doesn't happen until after TPAC, that's ok
- 18:14:00 [MarkMccarthy]
- regrets+ EvanYamanishi
- 18:14:53 [carmacleod]
- mck: currently have 7 things in that branch that are ready to go
- 18:16:43 [carmacleod]
- mck: jon pushed change to menu where it should use data attribute
- 18:16:56 [carmacleod]
- mck: car made changes to IDL button
- 18:17:07 [carmacleod]
- mck: so we are up to 9 done
- 18:17:30 [MarkMccarthy]
- I also seem to remember Sarah taking up <meter>
- 18:18:36 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: meter pattern - was Sarah going to update that?
- 18:19:02 [carmacleod]
- mck: meter may not make the third working draft
- 18:19:07 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: that's ok
- 18:19:18 [carmacleod]
- TOPIC: APG language for new ARIA features
- 18:20:07 [carmacleod]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/1150
- 18:20:48 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: this isn't about anything new introduced in aria
- 18:21:00 [Sarah_Higley]
- Sarah_Higley has joined #aria-apg
- 18:21:57 [MarkMccarthy]
- q+ I don't think it'd hurt
- 18:22:16 [carmacleod]
- mck: should we add info to apg about how slider/spinbutton doesn't work in VO?
- 18:22:58 [MarkMccarthy]
- I don't think it'd hurt to add some caveats where necessary, along with what jamesn is saying.
- 18:23:08 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: I recommend that people don't use slider/spinbutton roles because they don't work in all AT
- 18:23:41 [carmacleod]
- mck: sounds like there are certain patterns that we should put warnings on
- 18:23:54 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: I do want to get them fixed...
- 18:24:04 [MarkMccarthy]
- I think that, though we may not recommend certain things, folks looking for resrouces might not know that, and know that APG is a good source. So it may indeed be good, in the interim
- 18:27:12 [jamesn]
- q+
- 18:27:14 [carmacleod]
- mck: does someone want to take this on and figure out what type of warning to put on certain patterns and where we should put it
- 18:27:46 [MarkMccarthy]
- I could try to take a stab at a message over the next week
- 18:27:56 [MarkMccarthy]
- Probably basically noting what you just said Matt
- 18:28:40 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: need to get the 2nd phase of AOM done, which will solve this problem of missing API
- 18:29:02 [carmacleod]
- mck: patterns would have to be redone to listen for AOM events
- 18:29:47 [carmacleod]
- mck: but for now, perhaps we need to say which patterns have problems?
- 18:30:36 [jongund]
- bye
- 18:31:23 [MarkMccarthy]
- +1 to Sarah's comment on offering remediation after using some APG examples
- 18:31:54 [carmacleod]
- mck: bottom line is you have to test
- 18:32:55 [carmacleod]
- mck: if no takers right now, will add it to the milestone for release 1
- 18:33:20 [Sarah_Higley]
- feeling FOMO over here :D
- 18:33:47 [MarkMccarthy]
- carmacleod: I had opened an issue saying consider similar concepts. maybe it could go in the same area as that - suggesting other "things to consider"
- 18:34:02 [MarkMccarthy]
- carmacleod: something like "consider using this HTML thing instead because XYZ"
- 18:34:31 [MarkMccarthy]
- carmacleod: it'd be just text, probably link to HTML spec. just spitballing right now though
- 18:35:35 [carmacleod]
- https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/633
- 18:36:27 [carmacleod]
- mck: draft prs are always welcome
- 18:36:42 [Sarah_Higley]
- +1 to Mark & Zoe's +1s
- 18:37:21 [carmacleod]
- TOPIC: open examples in CodePen
- 18:38:09 [CurtBellew_]
- CurtBellew_ has joined #aria-apg
- 18:38:28 [jamesn]
- Codepen link looks awesome
- 18:38:33 [carmacleod]
- mck: example: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria-practices/issue1102-open-example-codepen/examples/slider/multithumb-slider.html
- 18:38:42 [MarkMccarthy]
- Codepen doesn't work in IE (for testing) unless it uses debug links
- 18:38:50 [carmacleod]
- mck: there's a button that opens the code in CodePen
- 18:39:06 [carmacleod]
- mck: do people like this idea?
- 18:39:08 [jamesn]
- Feature request to automatically run tidy on the HTML
- 18:39:34 [carmacleod]
- car: I like it!
- 18:39:39 [MarkMccarthy]
- +1 to style and placement
- 18:41:27 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: should it be a link or a button?
- 18:41:35 [carmacleod]
- mck: opens in new tab
- 18:42:06 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: maybe don't have heading - just button (or link)
- 18:43:08 [carmacleod]
- mck: please add feedback to https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1110
- 18:43:23 [carmacleod]
- TOPIC: TPAC Combobox Discussion Preparation
- 18:44:28 [carmacleod]
- mck: will send out to the list before TPAC
- 18:44:44 [carmacleod]
- mck: slide 3 explains evolution of combobox
- 18:45:37 [carmacleod]
- mck: essentially a textbox with a combobox inside of it
- 18:45:50 [carmacleod]
- ... for 1.0
- 18:46:26 [carmacleod]
- mck: for 1.1 combobox changed to a container with a textbox and sibling listbox
- 18:47:26 [carmacleod]
- mck: slide 4 the problem is that because listbox was owned by textbox, many AT couldn't see listbox
- 18:48:14 [carmacleod]
- mck: the only way to perceive the options in the listbox was to have screen reader in forms mode and it would read aria-activedescendants
- 18:48:41 [carmacleod]
- mck: in 1.1, combobox is now container, problem is it's not focusable
- 18:49:06 [carmacleod]
- mck: combobox role is on non-focusable container
- 18:49:32 [carmacleod]
- mck: because of big changes, screen readers did't figure out how to support it
- 18:49:49 [carmacleod]
- mck: there were naming issues, we discussed those in May
- 18:51:58 [carmacleod]
- mck: for 1.2, proposal is to go back to 1.0 structure, but listbox is controlled by textbox instead of owned by
- 18:52:40 [carmacleod]
- ... similar to menubutton that controls menu
- 18:53:38 [carmacleod]
- ... nicest part of this proposal is we wouldn't have to change any screen readers
- 18:54:26 [carmacleod]
- ... 1 line of html, 1 line of js, works awesome (better than 1.0 pattern, better than 1.1 pattern)
- 18:54:59 [jamesn]
- q+
- 18:55:26 [carmacleod]
- mck: tested in JAWS/NVDA with Chrome/FF, VO with Safari, Narrator with Edge
- 18:55:46 [carmacleod]
- q
- 18:56:11 [carmacleod]
- ack jamesn
- 18:56:28 [MarkMccarthy]
- Good point James
- 18:56:48 [jamesn]
- ack me
- 18:57:04 [carmacleod]
- jamesn: we need to have this conversation with MS before TPAC
- 19:01:43 [carmacleod]
- sarah: native windows combobox is a container - inspect.exe - has textbox and listbox children
- 19:02:14 [MarkMccarthy]
- s/inspect.exe/explorer.exe
- 19:04:08 [carmacleod]
- sarah: I will definitely talk to Melanie and the team
- 19:04:28 [carmacleod]
- mck: need to look also at select size=1
- 19:04:52 [carmacleod]
- ... this proposal is in some ways an attempt to emulate select size=1
- 19:05:19 [carmacleod]
- ... somehow UIA is representing select size=1 as a combobox (without a wrapper)
- 19:06:05 [carmacleod]
- sarah: it doesn't have a child edit
- 19:07:00 [carmacleod]
- mck: I will have a draft version ready today - will send to the aria list
- 19:07:21 [carmacleod]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 19:07:21 [Zakim]
- Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn
- 19:08:05 [carmacleod]
- present+ curt_bellew
- 19:09:25 [carmacleod]
- present+ Sarah_Higley
- 19:09:40 [carmacleod]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 19:09:40 [Zakim]
- Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley
- 19:10:07 [carmacleod]
- present+ bryan
- 19:10:18 [carmacleod]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 19:10:18 [Zakim]
- Present: ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley, bryan
- 19:10:27 [carmacleod]
- zakim, bye
- 19:10:27 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been ZoeBijl, jongund, MarkMccarthy, Matt-King, carmacleod, jamesn, curt_bellew, Sarah_Higley, bryan
- 19:10:27 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #aria-apg
- 19:10:38 [carmacleod]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 19:10:38 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/10-aria-apg-minutes.html carmacleod