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12:29:07 <trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
12:29:07 <trackbot> Date: 06 September 2019
12:29:21 <Laura> Laura has joined #eo
12:31:10 <shawn> Chair: Brent
12:31:26 <Lewis> present+
12:31:35 <Estella> Estella has joined #eo
12:31:40 <Brent> present+
12:32:29 <Laura> present+
12:32:40 <hdv> present_
12:32:43 <hdv> present+
12:32:45 <Helen_Burge> present+
12:32:48 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
12:32:53 <shawn> present: Shawn, Brent, Daniel, Eric, Estella, Helen, Hidde, Laura, Lewis, Shadi, Sharron
12:33:00 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #eo
12:33:15 <Sharron> scribe: Sharron
12:33:23 <shawn> present+ Sylvie
12:33:43 <Sharron> Topic: Media Resource
12:33:55 <shawn> Confirm changes since approval to publish survey https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Accessible_Media_Resource#History
12:34:38 <Sharron> Shawn: There have been a few changes since the Approval to Publish survey. Mostly monor wording changes listed in the previously circulated email
12:35:03 <Sharron> s/monor/minor
12:35:36 <Sharron> ...wanted to be sure everyone had seen those and abel to comment or ask questions, any?
12:35:56 <shawn> https://wai-media-guide.netlify.com/design-develop/media/planning/#checklist
12:36:11 <Sharron> ...next were the graphics. we received the next version with an attempt at suggested revisions. Still may need a bit more tweaking.
12:36:55 <Laura> q+
12:37:00 <Sharron> ...take a look at the icons posted to this link. I would like you to consider for a minute and comment on the icon for pre-recorded video.
12:37:16 <shawn> ack me
12:37:20 <shawn> ack Laura
12:37:32 <Lewis> q+
12:37:39 <shawn> ack Lewis
12:37:42 <Helen_Burge> q+
12:37:43 <Sharron> Laura: Sorry I can see what tehy are trying to do but my first impression is one of eyeballs.
12:38:22 <Brent> s/tehy/they/
12:38:37 <Sharron> Lewis: How many people will recognize VHS tape? Could we use DVD icon or something else instead. It may not be a useful icon.
12:39:10 <Laura> +1 to Lewis' comments
12:39:12 <shadi> q+
12:39:25 <Sharron> ...I would not delay publication but instead think about replacing it when it is feasible.
12:39:28 <shawn> ack Hele
12:40:11 <shawn> ack sha
12:40:39 <Howard> Howard has joined #eo
12:40:45 <Howard> present+ Howard
12:40:55 <Estella> Would it be possible to use a "play" icon for pre-recorded?
12:41:40 <Sharron> Helen: Maybe an icon for a hard drive - often used for saved item. I have an issue with the next one because the contrast is not good - it is unreadable.
12:42:54 <Sharron> Eric: I think th icons are so small they seem unecessary and don't add alot. We don't re-use them in other palces. Don't see why we need them at al.
12:43:00 <Sharron> Sharron: +1
12:43:27 <yatil> [ Eric is totally happy to leave this to the Editor. ]
12:43:34 <Sharron> Shawn: We approved these a few weeks ago. I will ask the chairs if we want to revisit that decision.
12:44:27 <Sharron> Sharron: I am anti-icon in general, so I am happy to revisit. As I recall most people were pretty neutral about them in any case
12:44:50 <Howard> Are you talking about the icons near middle of https://wai-media-guide.netlify.com/design-develop/media/? Sorry got here late.
12:45:13 <shawn> Howard - these https://wai-media-guide.netlify.com/design-develop/media/planning/#checklist
12:45:29 <Estella> q+
12:46:21 <shawn> Sharron: I'm just not an icon person. Better question is for people who like/use icons
12:46:43 <Helen_Burge> q+
12:47:31 <Sharron> Brent: I can speak for the people who use and snap to icons right away. Once I id the meaning of the icon, I don't even read the text. I am slow reader and love having icons.
12:47:46 <Helen_Burge> q-
12:47:51 <Howard> q+
12:47:51 <shawn> ack Es
12:48:33 <shawn> ack ho
12:48:45 <Sharron> Estella: Actually I am an icon lover and also read slow and so apprciate they are here. Even if it looks a bit old-fashioned, I think they are fine.
12:50:01 <Sharron> Howard: I like icons and wonder if it may be better having them from teh left to the right, after the text.
12:50:14 <Sharron> s/teg/the
12:50:30 <Sharron> s/teh/the
12:50:31 <shawn> q?
12:51:33 <Sharron> Shadi: I want to say that I had not seen it for a couple of weeks and that thi is a great resource, very weell done and will be quite useful.
12:51:47 <Sharron> Shawn: Thanks and looks like we can publish early next week.
12:52:14 <Sharron> Brent: What is the timeline for publication?
12:52:55 <Howard> s/that thi/that this
12:53:02 <Sharron> Shawn: Depends on the graphics, could publish with rough draft ones but in any case my hope would be to queue up on Monday and publish Tuesda.
12:53:22 <Sharron> Brent: Good to know to get outreach going.
12:54:12 <Sharron> Topic: Curriculum
12:54:28 <dmontalvo> https://w3c.github.io/wai-curricula/curricula/introduction/
12:55:28 <Sharron> Daniel: This is the intro to this specific unit. Changes have been mostly to Units 3, 4, and 5. Unit 3, is the same title.
12:56:18 <Sharron> ...Unit 5 is now called Principles, Guidelines, and Checks
12:57:11 <Sharron> ...within it we have the three topics presented sequentially
12:57:27 <Sharron> s/Unit 5/Unit 4
12:58:34 <dmontalvo> q?
12:58:41 <Sharron> Daneil: (lost audio, reviewed changes to Unit titles)
12:58:55 <dmontalvo> q?
12:59:09 <Sharron> Daniel: Any suggestions or comments, especially for Unit 4
12:59:14 <Howard> q+
12:59:48 <shawn> +1 for probably needing "Standards" in Unit 4 title
13:00:08 <Sharron> Shadi: I wonder about Unit 4, why do we not include "standards" which may be something that people look for.  What was the rationale?
13:00:11 <Estella> +1 to use "standards"
13:00:46 <dmontalvo> q?
13:00:46 <Sharron> Daniel: Because we do not include all of the standards here.
13:00:54 <Estella> q+
13:01:10 <shawn>  -- maybe standards/guidelines
13:01:17 <dmontalvo> ack how
13:01:23 <Sharron> Shawn: I think it is OK to use standards even though we do not include all of them.
13:01:31 <dmontalvo> ack este
13:01:33 <Estella> I can not here anything are you talking?
13:01:33 <Sharron> Howard: What was the previous title?
13:01:37 <Brent> q+
13:01:46 <Sharron> Daniel: Acessibility Standards and Guidelines
13:02:10 <Estella> Now yes
13:02:48 <Helen_Burge> q+
13:03:12 <Sharron> Estella: I am also in favor of using standards even without the full overview of all of them. It will be good to have it in the title because people will look for them.
13:03:22 <Brent> q-
13:03:24 <Brent> q+
13:03:34 <dmontalvo> ack hel
13:03:52 <Brent> q-
13:04:13 <Sharron> Daniel: Yes it was originally in the title in large part for the reason of European interest
13:05:20 <Sharron> Helen: The title in the navigation does not map to the current content. Otherwise I don't have a strong feeling about which term to use - principles, guidelines, standards...
13:05:37 <Sharron> Daniel: Yes the vocabulary can be confusing...
13:05:42 <dmontalvo> q?
13:05:50 <dmontalvo> q?
13:05:50 <Sharron> Helen: and could add another one, checklist
13:06:27 <Laura> +1 to Standards
13:06:37 <Sharron> Daniel: Anyone else to comment on this title, any speicic concerns or questions?
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13:07:15 <Sharron> Eric: I know the struggle with these terms and think standards in the title is probably useful.
13:07:30 <Sharron> Daniel: And we explain the terms in context at the very beginning.
13:07:38 <Sharron> ...any other comments?
13:08:43 <Sharron> Shadi: The third topic - HandsOn experience of standards, does it need "in practice." Or maybe use "checks" in title?
13:08:44 <dmontalvo> q?
13:08:50 <Sharron> Daniel: Yes I agree with that.
13:08:57 <dmontalvo> ack sha
13:09:09 <shadi> [[Hands-on Accessibility Checks]]
13:09:54 <shadi> q+
13:10:38 <Sharron> Shawn: A brief background that this section was just called Easy Checks since that is often used as a teaching tool. Trying to make it clear however that the goal is not to go learn EC but to get hands-on experince.
13:10:53 <dmontalvo> ack sha
13:10:57 <Sharron> ...that is why they title has changed a bit
13:12:30 <dmontalvo> q?
13:12:36 <Sharron> Shadi: I think it makes sense that the ide of the title is to make an experincial lesson of applying standards. But remember this is the intro course and is meant only to give people their first glimpse. May not mean to give a full overview of the entire resource in this intro unit.
13:12:42 <Sharron> Shawn: Agree
13:13:05 <Sharron> s/ide/idea
13:13:26 <Sharron> s/experincial/experiencial
13:13:37 <shadi> https://deploy-preview-71--wai-curricula.netlify.com/curricula/1-3/#ideas-for-assessment
13:14:03 <Sharron> Topic: New approach in Ideas for Assessment
13:14:38 <Yatil2k-ipad> Yatil2k-ipad has joined #eo
13:16:17 <dmontalvo> q?
13:16:32 <Sharron> Daniel: Previous approach was to tie the assessment lesson to the learning outcomes. I am now trying to suggest activities that will demonstrate learning. Suggest specific type of activity with a brief explanation of what is expected. For those working in higher ed, does this seem more useful?
13:16:44 <Estella> +1
13:17:22 <Sharron> Shadi: Critique was that the previous suggestions for assessing student learning looked more like homework.
13:18:00 <dmontalvo> q?
13:18:08 <Estella> q+
13:18:09 <Brent> q+
13:18:15 <Howard> q+
13:18:27 <dmontalvo> ack est
13:18:28 <Sharron> ...so the question now is whether this looks generic enough to be applied in various contexts while also providing enough of a framework to do meaningul assessment of student learning.
13:19:04 <Brent> q-
13:19:07 <Brent> q+
13:19:34 <Sharron> Estella: Will these be guided assessment or non-guided. Multiple choice for example are given in non-guided settings like a MOOC. To which type of classes is this curriculum intended?
13:19:47 <Yatil2k-ipad_> Yatil2k-ipad_ has joined #eo
13:19:47 <Sharron> ...it is still not clear to m where this will be implemented?
13:20:34 <Sharron> ...it is important because the approach in these different contexts will be quite different.
13:21:48 <Sharron> Daniel: We hope that the curriculum will be applied in all different contexts. We want to provide a foundation that can be adapted to various settings.
13:22:24 <dmontalvo> q?
13:23:42 <Sharron> Shadi: We have the intention to make this an open approach, ideas that can be widely applied in many contexts. Do you have concerns abut the approach might not work?
13:24:13 <shawn> q+ to ask about Assessment
13:24:35 <Sharron> Estella: The problems will be in appling to a university setting, there is no definition of hours, credits and those expectations for higher ed.
13:25:47 <Sharron> ...sometimes the institute will also need to know more detail about time deciated to each topic, unit, section. For applying into a unversity setting, the measure must be number of hours to earn credits. So what standards are we trying to meet?
13:28:00 <Sharron> Shadi: We did try to assign time or percentage of time originally. But thinking about the various settings and semmester/quarter/workshop etc we decided to remove it. Instead we stepped back and will ask the instructors to do the translation of time spent into credits, etc within their own specific circumstance.
13:29:13 <dmontalvo> ack?
13:29:21 <Sharron> Daniel: We had hours assigned at first and realized we could nt anticipate all the ways it may be used, integrated into other courses and such so have tried to be less specific about time.
13:30:18 <dmontalvo> ack how
13:30:43 <Sharron> Shadi: Wanted to realize that depending on the type  of course, student interst etc, it could be taught very differently. As Eric said "a framework for a curriculum"
13:30:46 <shawn> q- shawn
13:31:41 <dmontalvo> ack brent
13:31:48 <Sharron> Howard: I do like the approach of calling these ideas for assessment in order to get people thinking aobut psosibilities. I also like the fact that hours are not assigned and to let the instrucotrs determine focus and duration.
13:33:13 <shawn> q+
13:33:26 <Howard> I would leave it
13:33:31 <dmontalvo> ack sha
13:33:33 <Sharron> Brent: I agree with Howard to leave the time decision to the instructor. In the idea of assessment giving teachers the goal of what students should know without proscribing how they test for that but providing some ideas and approaches to help them.
13:33:34 <Brent> I would leave them
13:34:34 <Sharron> Shawn: I wonder if the effort for us to provide those is worth that. It seems so repetitive to the learning outcomes. It may not be that instrucotrs even will use tem.
13:34:40 <Yatil2k-ipad_> +1 to remove them for now,
13:35:33 <Sharron> Brent: Many trainers or teachers will come up with their own ways to assess student learning. But we have to remember that we have also anticipated that some people may use this who have never taught.
13:35:47 <Estella> +1 to Brent
13:36:14 <Yatil2k-ipad_> +1 to the concept, but ultimately happy with whatever Daniel & the group find appropriate
13:36:18 <Estella> Sorry I lost the audio again
13:36:21 <shawn> s/ It seems so repetitive to the learning outcomes. / It previously seemed so repetitive to the learning outcomes.
13:37:15 <Brent> +1 to beefing up the guidance on the introduction.
13:37:20 <Sharron> Shadi: Maybe put this in a survey - leave in the assessment ideas or not. I also hear Estella's point that it is not at this time well suited for higher ed. Maybe we need a meta narrative to explain that this is framework and should be used and modified for the specific setting.
13:37:57 <Yatil2k-ipad_> THANK YOU Daniel, for all the work on it, it shapes up great!
13:38:03 <Sharron> Daniel: OK we will soon open a survey for Unite 3 and I will include these and other topics we did not get to at today's meeting. Thank you so much!
13:39:09 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/06-eo-minutes.html shawn
13:39:23 <shadi> Daniel++
13:39:35 <shawn> Sharron: ... difficult & complex task - good job, Dnaiel
13:39:46 <shawn> s/Dnaiel/Daniel
13:39:56 <Laura> I agree with Sharron. Great work.
13:40:44 <Sharron> Topic: Videos
13:41:24 <Estella> Estella has joined #eo
13:42:34 <Estella> Sorry for that, I restarted the computer now I can here everything
13:42:59 <Sharron> Shadi: Thanks so much for all the comments. Wanted to recognize that there is some need for a less formal academic approach. I had some questions to followup with the survey input. There was a question about the repetition between some of the videos. This is due to the fact that we would not expect people to watch the videos sequentially. So how bothersome is it that there is repeition in the
13:42:59 <Brent> q+
13:42:59 <Sharron> intro and then in the specific resource video?
13:42:59 <hdv> Q+
13:44:03 <Sharron> Brent: The repetition would be a problem if there were to be a compilation like there was in the perspective videos.
13:44:03 <Brent> ack brent
13:44:14 <Brent> ack hdv
13:44:38 <shawn> q+
13:44:55 <Sharron> Hidde: I think it is good to repeat ourselves in some vidoes since we will nto expect tpeople to sit and watch all these videos and some points need to be made in different places.
13:44:55 <Brent> Also Shadi FYI, for me it was more the repetition of the visuals not the message.
13:45:11 <Brent> ack shawn
13:45:25 <Sharron> Shawn: I support the idea of having an overview and then separate videos and accepting the idea that there will be repition.
13:45:29 <Sharron> q+
13:45:30 <Yatil2k-ipad_> Q+
13:45:43 <Estella> +1 to repetition
13:45:44 <Brent> ack sharron
13:45:45 <Laura> +1 to Shawn
13:45:50 <dmontalvo> +1 to the overview video as it is now
13:46:00 <Estella> Also for easy-to-read standards
13:46:19 <shawn> Sharron: some points are worth repeating. I didn't see an issue with repetition.
13:46:37 <shawn> q+ to say overview not compilation
13:46:47 <Brent> ack yatil
13:47:50 <Sharron> Eric: I had some issues with the repetition. You should just have a look of the overview video - this is the one where we should be telling the audience what we are going to teach them, stay with high level points.
13:48:11 <Brent> q?
13:48:49 <Brent> ack shawn
13:48:49 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say overview not compilation
13:49:05 <Sharron> ...I was at some point wondering why this particular point was detailed in the overview. Just need to review to keep things high level.
13:49:53 <dmontalvo> q+
13:50:00 <Yatil2k-ipad_> I don’t ’t think we _need_ a compilation at this point
13:50:51 <Sharron> Shawn: I think some people may want to watch them all. At some point, let's think about the people who may want to watch them all.
13:51:54 <shawn> [ discussion of whether or not people will want to watch all of them, or not ]
13:52:08 <Sharron> Sharron: I don't agree that there would be much of a use case for that.
13:52:10 <dmontalvo> q-
13:52:33 <shawn> Shawn: ... not really have a good concept of where & how these videos will be presented
13:52:41 <Brent> Question for Shadi. Was the original purpose of this first set of video work to create a series on Evaluation Videos? Or was it to just create videos about some of our resources to help introduce them?
13:52:59 <shawn> +1 for the videos including the most important info in the resoure itself
13:53:17 <Yatil2k-ipad_> As+
13:53:17 <shadi> q+ brent
13:53:21 <Yatil2k-ipad_> A+
13:53:34 <Yatil2k-ipad_> Q+
13:54:48 <shawn> q+ to say for example, video should include caveat that tools can't do all checks
13:57:19 <dmontalvo> q+
13:57:30 <Estella> Sorry but I do think that people might like to watch the videos as a compilation on a Saturday night
13:57:41 <Brent> ack me
13:57:49 <Sharron> Shadi: I am trying to balance between promotional and instructional.
13:58:28 <Sharron> Brent: Was the original intent was to create specifically evaluation videos or about all WAI resources?
14:00:05 <Sharron> Shadi: Maybe not embedded on the resource page but easily linked from the resource. The primary use was to introduce a whole variety of resources but have had to reel it back due to the budget. Evaluation was the top priotity.
14:00:15 <dmontalvo> q-
14:00:26 <Brent> ack yatil
14:01:21 <shawn> axck me
14:01:26 <Sharron> Eric: As the overview video prompts the interest in the specific resource. Having the overview be quite brief and introductory is ost useful. At this point I thought it ran quite long.
14:01:27 <yatil> ack sh
14:01:27 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say for example, video should include caveat that tools can't do all checks
14:01:34 <Sharron> Sharron: +1
14:02:21 <Sharron> Shawn: I do think the vidoes should include some improtant instructional content. Like "tools can't do all checks"
14:02:25 <Sharron> Sharron +1
14:03:26 <shadi> q?
14:03:51 <Sharron> Shadi: I am hearing to keep it more on the isntructional side rather than promotional, avoid repetition between the resource videos, make intor a bit more brief.
14:05:01 <Sharron> Shadi: Tagline - "Essential for some, useful for all" Some peole want to keep and promote the tag line. Some like it and want to keep and promote that tagline. Others think this set of resources needs its own tagline.
14:05:32 <Estella> +1 to keep the tagline
14:05:46 <Sharron> ...on the one hand this tagline is catching on, have seen it used in papers and in conference presentations.
14:06:43 <dmontalvo> q+
14:06:45 <Estella> q+
14:06:56 <Sharron> Shawn: Should look at using it throughout the site more and it seems to be a good overarching theme. But it is a bit distracting in this context and does not seem relevant.
14:06:57 <yatil> q- sits
14:07:00 <Brent> +1 to use the FULL tagline here and in other places.
14:07:18 <shadi> ack dmon
14:07:46 <Sharron> Daniel: I do like it and should not be distracting. Rather it ties it together with the other videos. common theme.
14:07:49 <Sharron> q+
14:08:06 <Brent> ack estella
14:08:39 <Sharron> Estella: I agree with Daniel and Shadi. The tagline reminds us from the UN - nothing about us without us. A good message to keep and reiterate.
14:08:43 <Brent> ack yatil
14:08:43 <Zakim> yatil, you wanted to comment on
14:08:53 <shawn> action: Shawn look at integrating perspectives tagline throughout site!
14:08:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-392 - Look at integrating perspectives tagline throughout site! [on Shawn Henry - due 2019-09-13].
14:09:11 <Brent> ack sharron
14:09:52 <shawn> Sharron: I agree it's a great tagline. And resonates really , really well. But in this context, maybe think of a tagling specific to evalaution. It's a bit "huh, what" in this context.
14:10:05 <shawn> ... lock Shawn in room until she comes up with eval-specific tagline
14:10:06 <Sharron> Eric: We have a tagline claim that works very well, no
14:10:21 <Sharron> ...need to change it.
14:10:38 <Sharron> Sharron: I see Shawn's point that it is not specific to evaluation.
14:11:48 <shawn> Perspective Videos ending = "Visit w3.org/WAI/perspectives for more information on Customizable Text."
14:11:49 <shawn> q+
14:11:52 <Sharron> Shadi: The end plate. The question is do we just say "for more information," from more information about web accessibility, OR for more information about web accessibility evaluation.
14:12:00 <Brent> ack shawn
14:12:44 <Sharron> Shawn: Actually the perspective vidoes end by pointing to specifc resources. I think we should do the same here.
14:13:03 <yatil> good
14:13:07 <Sharron> ...link to the eval overview page
14:13:32 <shawn> For the links to "WCAG-EM: Website Accessibility Conformance Evaluation Methodology", "WCAG-EM Report Tool: Website Accessibility Evaluation Report Generator", and other evaluation resources, visit w3.org/WAI/eval
14:14:03 <shawn> For the links to the Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools List, the Selecting guidance, and other evaluation resources, visit w3.org/WAI/eval
14:14:27 <yatil> [ Why not just “Visit w3.org/WAI/eval for more information about this.” ]
14:14:44 <Sharron> Sharron: +1 to yatil
14:14:52 <shawn> For the link to Easy Checks and other evaluation resources, visit w3.org/WAI/eval
14:15:08 <yatil> [ and I would use w3.org/WAI/evaluation instead and redirect ]
14:15:12 <Helen_Burge> q+
14:15:40 <hdv> [ For more information, see w3.org/WAI/evaluation ]
14:15:45 <Brent> ack helen
14:15:45 <dmontalvo> +1 to use the real word
14:16:04 <Sharron> Helen: I was thinking whatever link we do use, it needs to be able to link beneath the video as well, on the static page.
14:16:20 <shawn> [ /WAI/evaluation or /WAI/evaluate or ...]
14:17:12 <shawn> +1 to send to evaluation overview
14:17:34 <yatil> q+
14:17:39 <yatil> q+ to say shortlink
14:18:00 <Sylvie> Evaluation sounds ok, +1
14:18:23 <Brent> ack yatil
14:18:23 <Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say shortlink
14:19:40 <Estella> q+
14:20:25 <Brent> ack estella
14:23:19 <shawn> .
14:24:22 <Sharron> Shadi: Using abstract illustrations so now really showing a browser, using anmation. Wants to use abstract illustrations of users as well not real people because don't have capacity to show racial, disability, gender diversity. Screenshots are not being considered because that would lock us into English. Drop me any thoughts you might have about it.
14:24:45 <Sharron> ...will be updating the scripts so keep alert for that.
14:25:25 <Sharron> Brent: We can have a weekly survey as you make these revisions.
14:26:10 <Sharron> Shadi: Maybe on Tuesday or so can put a survey up and have people look by Friday
14:26:26 <Sharron> Topic: WAI Home Page
14:26:49 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/
14:26:58 <hdv> q+
14:27:06 <shawn> ack h
14:27:30 <Sharron> Shawn: I am curious how often people actually go to the current homepage, please visit and say what your reactions is
14:27:55 <Sharron> Hidde: Seems to me it is tightened up a bit and I think it needs more white space
14:28:35 <Sharron> Estella: I like the way it looks but I need more space between sections to prevent seeming crowded and confuisng.
14:28:42 <yatil> I find it perfect.
14:28:51 <Sharron> Laura: Yes I have to agree with that, more white space is needed.
14:28:58 <yatil> s/I find it perfect./
14:29:25 <Brent> Top of home page seems crowded to me now.
14:29:49 <Sharron> Shawn: Go to any page on the WAI web site, look at spacing between lines and before and after headings.
14:30:28 <yatil> q+
14:30:35 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/fundamentals/components/
14:31:10 <Sharron> Laura: I am on the Planning and Managing page, culd be a little less space before the heading. But it can be content dependent.
14:32:08 <Estella> +1 to leave the space
14:32:22 <hdv> +1 to leave at least as much space as there is
14:32:31 <Brent> Here is a page with a lot of text: https://www.w3.org/WAI/business-case/bibliography/
14:33:03 <Sharron> ...That is when I looked at the amount of space above the h2s on an overview page, it is not text heavy and space is not needed. But on a content page, like Essential Components, it is text heavy and the space about the h2 seems necessary and provides good guidance for the reader.
14:33:14 <hdv> q+ to say, while we talk about space, I think we should also have more space on the left and right of these columns. In typographic theor\y, recommended characters per line are 50-80 chars, we have a lot more, and that impacts readability.
14:33:24 <Brent> ack yatil
14:33:26 <yatil> q-
14:33:38 <Sharron> s/about/above
14:33:51 <Sharron> Topic: WrapUP
14:34:27 <Sharron> Brent: We will post a survey, please be alert to work for this week and I hope everyone has a good weekend. Thanks all!
14:50:18 <Sharron> trackbot, end meeting
14:50:18 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:50:18 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Shawn, Brent, Daniel, Eric, Estella, Helen, Hidde, Laura, Lewis, Shadi, Sharron, Sylvie, Howard
14:50:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:50:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/06-eo-minutes.html trackbot
14:50:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:50:27 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2019/09/06-eo-actions.rdf :
14:50:27 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shawn look at integrating perspectives tagline throughout site! [1]
14:50:27 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2019/09/06-eo-irc#T14-08-53