IRC log of lvtf on 2019-09-05
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:27:48 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-lvtf-irc
- 14:27:50 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:27:53 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 14:27:53 [trackbot]
- Date: 05 September 2019
- 14:28:01 [JimA]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 14:28:01 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 14:28:52 [JimA]
- Agenda+ focus visible - review on 2.2
- 14:28:54 [JimA]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2019Aug/0015.html
- 14:35:47 [JimA]
- Agenda+ Focus visible test https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WBUakVVdJh2alhSpacgUekEQL8HFMK9oMeq6IswdZVw/edit?pli=1#gid=0
- 14:55:37 [Wayne]
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- 14:59:31 [laura]
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- 15:03:58 [laura]
- present+ Laura
- 15:05:30 [jon_avila]
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- 15:05:34 [jon_avila]
- present+jon_avila
- 15:08:02 [laura]
- Waynes’ example: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2019JulSep/0177.html
- 15:08:48 [JimA]
- scribe: jim
- 15:08:58 [JimA]
- zakim, open item 1
- 15:08:58 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "focus visible - review on 2.2" taken up [from JimA]
- 15:09:14 [JimA]
- https://www.tsbvi.edu/web/tests/focus-more-visible3.html
- 15:09:31 [alastairc]
- https://alastairc.uk/tests/wcag22-examples/focus-more-visible-2.html
- 15:09:52 [alastairc]
- Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WBUakVVdJh2alhSpacgUekEQL8HFMK9oMeq6IswdZVw/edit#gid=0
- 15:11:14 [JimA]
- ac: 3 ways to measure focus style. Things changing - borders, outlines,
- 15:12:06 [JimA]
- ... adjacent colors. SC main point is about pixels changing and the contrast between changes.
- 15:14:00 [JimA]
- ac: Andy's email. a scale, can have a 1px border if very contrasty >7
- 15:14:22 [JimA]
- ac: looking for a score of 1-10.
- 15:15:21 [JimA]
- jon: though 1.4.11 applied to focus. want to discuss.
- 15:15:46 [JimA]
- s/though 1/thought 1
- 15:16:43 [alastairc]
- Focus (more) visible draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9_WBgfhViWAaRFIWWt10CP5rBsEVIWm3vT1vWqrHvI/edit?ts=5d124fb5#
- 15:17:12 [JimA]
- ac: current nontext contrast covered contrast in states - radio buttons. focus state indocator does not necessarily need to differentiate.
- 15:17:38 [JimA]
- jon: thought focus state indicator had to have a 3:1,
- 15:18:01 [JimA]
- ac: most think focus state has to have contrast.
- 15:18:44 [JimA]
- jon: not original intent of 1.4.11
- 15:19:24 [JimA]
- ac: 1.4.11 was morfed. the new SC should fix the dynamic state of focus.
- 15:20:34 [JimA]
- jon: disappointed that what LVTF wanted didn't get addressed. 1.4.11 does very little for focus.
- 15:21:19 [JimA]
- ac: we use 1.4.11 for input controls and iconography. focus is covered in best practices
- 15:21:43 [JimA]
- jon: bigger challenge for users is finding focus.
- 15:22:47 [alastairc]
- Example 1:
- 15:23:31 [JimA]
- scale of 1-10 - 10 very visible, 1 hardly visible
- 15:23:55 [alastairc]
- https://alastairc.uk/tests/wcag22-examples/focus-more-visible-2.html
- 15:24:52 [JimA]
- jon: not talking about the 2 button issues. how to know which button has focus
- 15:26:34 [JimA]
- ac: just looking at visibility of focus
- 15:29:48 [JimA]
- ac: all examples have 4 buttons to check as focus moves
- 15:31:28 [JimA]
- jon: comparison with adjacent controls
- 15:36:14 [JimA]
- ac: example 3 has contrast with dark border, but not background.
- 15:36:39 [JimA]
- jon: if it was thicker would not be so much of an issue, or both colors
- 15:42:04 [JimA]
- example 5 - looks pressed not focused.
- 15:44:00 [JimA]
- Jon: example 6 having a border overcomes usability issue
- 15:47:35 [jon_avila]
- looks like I got kicked off. But I have to run to another meeting. Thanks. 15d seems like it fails the SC due not being the longest side to me.
- 15:48:05 [alastairc]
- Ok, thanks Jon. 15d does have sufficient *area*
- 15:48:16 [alastairc]
- which is what the SC is asking for..
- 16:12:39 [laura]
- need to drop off now. Bye.
- 16:14:05 [JimA]
- wayne: need research on visual perception, gestalt or preattentive vision, completion principle
- 16:15:27 [laura]
- Wonder if we can we correlate LVTF assessed values in the spreadsheet to letter grades?
- 16:15:36 [laura]
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_the_United_States
- 16:16:11 [JimA]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:16:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-lvtf-minutes.html JimA
- 16:16:40 [JimA]
- laura - or make it a smaller scale for force choice.
- 16:17:08 [JimA]
- s/force/forced
- 16:17:30 [JimA]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:17:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-lvtf-minutes.html JimA
- 16:19:27 [JimA]
- present: jim, wayne, Jon, Laura, Alastair
- 16:19:37 [JimA]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:19:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-lvtf-minutes.html JimA
- 17:54:19 [jeanne]
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- 19:37:51 [steverep]
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