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14:27:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-lvtf-irc
14:27:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:27:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:27:53 <trackbot> Date: 05 September 2019
14:28:01 <JimA> zakim, clear agenda
14:28:01 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:28:52 <JimA> Agenda+ focus visible - review on 2.2
14:28:54 <JimA> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2019Aug/0015.html
14:35:47 <JimA> Agenda+ Focus visible test https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WBUakVVdJh2alhSpacgUekEQL8HFMK9oMeq6IswdZVw/edit?pli=1#gid=0
14:55:37 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
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15:03:58 <laura> present+ Laura
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15:05:34 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
15:08:02 <laura> Waynes’ example: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2019JulSep/0177.html
15:08:48 <JimA> scribe: jim
15:08:58 <JimA> zakim, open item 1
15:08:58 <Zakim> agendum 1. "focus visible - review on 2.2" taken up [from JimA]
15:09:14 <JimA> https://www.tsbvi.edu/web/tests/focus-more-visible3.html
15:09:31 <alastairc> https://alastairc.uk/tests/wcag22-examples/focus-more-visible-2.html
15:09:52 <alastairc> Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WBUakVVdJh2alhSpacgUekEQL8HFMK9oMeq6IswdZVw/edit#gid=0
15:11:14 <JimA> ac: 3 ways to measure focus style. Things changing - borders, outlines,
15:12:06 <JimA> ... adjacent colors.  SC main point is about pixels changing and the contrast between changes.
15:14:00 <JimA> ac: Andy's email. a scale, can have a 1px border if very contrasty >7
15:14:22 <JimA> ac: looking for a score of 1-10.
15:15:21 <JimA> jon: though 1.4.11 applied to focus. want to discuss.
15:15:46 <JimA> s/though 1/thought 1
15:16:43 <alastairc> Focus (more) visible draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g9_WBgfhViWAaRFIWWt10CP5rBsEVIWm3vT1vWqrHvI/edit?ts=5d124fb5#
15:17:12 <JimA> ac: current nontext contrast covered contrast in states - radio buttons. focus state indocator does not necessarily need to differentiate.
15:17:38 <JimA> jon: thought focus state indicator had to have a 3:1,
15:18:01 <JimA> ac: most think focus state has to have contrast.
15:18:44 <JimA> jon: not original intent of 1.4.11
15:19:24 <JimA> ac: 1.4.11 was morfed. the new SC should fix the dynamic state of focus.
15:20:34 <JimA> jon: disappointed that what LVTF wanted didn't get addressed. 1.4.11 does very little for focus.
15:21:19 <JimA> ac: we use 1.4.11 for input controls and iconography. focus is covered in best practices
15:21:43 <JimA> jon: bigger challenge for users is finding focus.
15:22:47 <alastairc> Example 1:
15:23:31 <JimA> scale of 1-10 - 10 very visible, 1 hardly visible
15:23:55 <alastairc> https://alastairc.uk/tests/wcag22-examples/focus-more-visible-2.html
15:24:52 <JimA> jon: not talking about the 2 button issues. how to know which button has focus
15:26:34 <JimA> ac: just looking at visibility of focus
15:29:48 <JimA> ac: all examples have 4 buttons to check as focus moves
15:31:28 <JimA> jon: comparison with adjacent controls
15:36:14 <JimA> ac: example 3 has contrast with dark border, but not background.
15:36:39 <JimA> jon: if it was thicker would not be so much of an issue, or both colors
15:42:04 <JimA> example 5 - looks pressed not focused.
15:44:00 <JimA> Jon: example 6 having a border overcomes usability issue
15:47:35 <jon_avila> looks like I got kicked off.  But I have to run to another meeting.  Thanks.  15d seems like it fails the SC due not being the longest side to me.
15:48:05 <alastairc> Ok, thanks Jon. 15d does have sufficient *area*
15:48:16 <alastairc> which is what the SC is asking for..
16:12:39 <laura> need to drop off now. Bye.
16:14:05 <JimA> wayne: need research on visual perception, gestalt or preattentive vision, completion principle
16:15:27 <laura> Wonder if we can we correlate LVTF assessed values in the spreadsheet  to letter grades?
16:15:36 <laura> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_the_United_States
16:16:11 <JimA> rrsagent, make minutes
16:16:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-lvtf-minutes.html JimA
16:16:40 <JimA> laura - or make it a smaller scale for force choice.
16:17:08 <JimA> s/force/forced
16:17:30 <JimA> rrsagent, make minutes
16:17:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-lvtf-minutes.html JimA
16:19:27 <JimA> present: jim, wayne, Jon, Laura, Alastair
16:19:37 <JimA> rrsagent, make minutes
16:19:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-lvtf-minutes.html JimA
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