16:51:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:51:37 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-aria-irc
16:51:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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16:51:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
16:51:41 <trackbot> Date: 05 September 2019
16:51:57 <jamesn> chair: JamesNurthen
16:52:53 <jamesn> regrets+ HarrisSchneiderman MarkMcCarthy MelanieRichards
16:54:40 <jamesn> present+
16:57:03 <jamesn> agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
16:57:03 <jamesn> agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
16:57:03 <jamesn> agenda+ Future Meeting Schedule
16:57:04 <jamesn> agenda+ [Agenda for TPAC 2019](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001)
16:57:04 <jamesn> agenda+ [Issue1019 initial draft for accessible name using caption role](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1020)
16:57:04 <jamesn> agenda+ [Issue899 accname from heading](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1018)
16:57:04 <jamesn> agenda+ [Accessible name from caption](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1019)
16:57:05 <jamesn> agenda+ [Add explicit language regarding name from legend and encapsulation](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/54)
16:57:05 <jamesn> agenda+ [Revising what ARIA attributes should be considered global](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/999)
16:57:35 <Scott_O> Scott_O has joined #aria
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16:59:25 <pkra> present+
16:59:45 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
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17:01:10 <Scott_O> present+
17:03:39 <carmacleod> carmacleod has joined #aria
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17:04:18 <CurtBellew> present+
17:05:56 <carmacleod> scribe: carmacleod
17:06:04 <carmacleod> agenda?
17:06:48 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:06:48 <Zakim> agendum 1. "[New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2F
17:06:51 <Zakim> ... core-aam&type=Issues)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:07:05 <carmacleod> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-08-22+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
17:07:17 <BGaraventa> BGaraventa has joined #aria
17:07:40 <BGaraventa> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
17:09:06 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/56
17:09:24 <carmacleod> jamesn: is this an issue for accname?
17:10:05 <carmacleod> mck: the language of the page is the language of the label
17:10:26 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:10:29 <carmacleod> jamesn: based on the presumption that you can change the language of a label
17:10:34 <Stefan> present+
17:11:37 <carmacleod> james: does someone want to own this and answer the questions
17:12:35 <carmacleod> joanie: is the goal for AT to have automatic language switching?
17:14:02 <carmacleod> james: I don't think any of these points are for accname
17:14:38 <carmacleod> joanie: if the screen reader isn't doing the right thing, open a bug against screen reader
17:14:47 <carmacleod> scott: I'll take it
17:14:56 <carmacleod> all: thanks, Scott
17:17:06 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1048
17:17:25 <pkra> of course of cours.
17:17:28 <carmacleod> jamesn: Who can take this one?
17:17:57 <mck> mck has joined #aria
17:18:06 <carmacleod> jamesn: Leave it open for now
17:18:18 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1047
17:18:26 <carmacleod> jamesn: label as question
17:18:38 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1046
17:18:50 <carmacleod> mck: I'll take this
17:19:07 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1045
17:19:18 <carmacleod> joanie: won't fix; close it
17:19:30 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1044
17:19:38 <carmacleod> jamesn: on tpac agenda
17:19:55 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1043
17:20:06 <carmacleod> jamesn: any comments?
17:21:35 <carmacleod> scott: probably best to leave over in aria-practices to avoid duplication
17:22:20 <carmacleod> mck: people need to know what it takes to trigger a live region, and it needs to be accurate
17:23:36 <carmacleod> mck: there will be a list in aria-practices
17:23:50 <carmacleod> james: aim for 1.3
17:25:06 <carmacleod> peter: perhaps this should be closed for now; can be reopened with more info later after aria-practices text is finalized
17:25:29 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1042
17:25:36 <carmacleod> scott: I'll take this one
17:28:37 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1041
17:29:08 <carmacleod> carmacleod: I'll take this because there's still an outstanding pr for what goes back into the accessibility tree
17:29:25 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1040
17:29:42 <carmacleod> jamesn: bug in our tablet section
17:29:57 <carmacleod> jamesn: I've already looked at this - I'll take it
17:29:57 <pkra> james I feel I should offer to respond to the vague live region question / issue 1043
17:30:34 <carmacleod> jamesn: please do!
17:30:46 <pkra> I don't want to ;-) just feel obliged.
17:30:50 <pkra> will do.
17:30:51 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:30:51 <Zakim> agendum 2. "[New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-a
17:30:54 <Zakim> ... am&type=Issues)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:31:00 <jamesn> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-08-22+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
17:31:08 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:31:08 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, carmacleod
17:31:20 <carmacleod> zakim, close this item
17:31:20 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
17:31:21 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:31:21 <Zakim> 3. Future Meeting Schedule [from jamesn]
17:31:27 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:31:27 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Future Meeting Schedule" taken up [from jamesn]
17:32:20 <carmacleod> jamesn: no meeting next week or the week after, due to tpac. Will meet week after that.
17:32:24 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:32:24 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, carmacleod
17:32:30 <carmacleod> zakim, close this item
17:32:30 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
17:32:31 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:32:31 <Zakim> 4. [Agenda for TPAC 2019](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001) [from jamesn]
17:32:33 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:32:33 <Zakim> agendum 4. "[Agenda for TPAC 2019](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:32:54 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001
17:33:42 <jamesn> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eeq-xg0li2IKEIiyKsqhv-QOxArtbTV3m0OrG8ns-w4/edit?usp=sharing
17:34:16 <carmacleod> jamesn: link to schedule, above
17:34:58 <carmacleod> jamesn: if not attending, and if there's a topic you want to discuss, we will schedule it early in the morning; please let us know
17:35:28 <carmacleod> jamesn: please ask specific questions about the schedule in email
17:36:06 <carmacleod> jamesn: joint meetings with several other groups - those can't be moved
17:36:16 <carmacleod> zakim, next item
17:36:16 <Zakim> agendum 5. "[Issue1019 initial draft for accessible name using caption role](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1020)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:36:40 <carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1020
17:36:58 <carmacleod> jamesn: finally discussing caption role
17:37:03 <pkra> joanie would you forgive me for not getting up at 11am on Monday (4am my time)?
17:37:34 <carmacleod> jongund: you can use captions in html, but no equivalent role, so added
17:37:43 <Stefan> q+
17:38:33 <carmacleod> jongund: can be associated with figure, grid, or table
17:38:35 <Stefan> q-
17:38:47 <carmacleod> stephan: add treegrid
17:39:07 <carmacleod> jamesn: what does it map to on the platform?
17:39:40 <carmacleod> joanie: IA2, gecko have this
17:41:02 <carmacleod> mck: allows naming of these things using separate element with role
17:41:43 <carmacleod> joanie: ATK says you use the relation label-for
17:42:36 <carmacleod> joanie: if there is no accessible name, Orca looks for the label-for/labelled-by relation
17:44:43 <jongund> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria/issue1019-accname-from-caption/index.html#namecalculation
17:47:43 <carmacleod> scott: why do both HTML caption and figcaption map to "caption" role?
17:48:02 <carmacleod> scott: and there's a separate role for legend
17:48:31 <carmacleod> jongund: because legend has clickable behavior
17:49:19 <carmacleod> jamesn: the relationships point to the group, but one is a role caption and one is a role label
17:50:27 <carmacleod> mck: speaking for screen readers: user has no idea whether something is a caption or a label - they are both announced the same way
17:51:39 <jamesn> https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/6fcf06aae2ab396de947701e036de5c9b85f4d9f/source/controlTypes.py
17:52:14 <carmacleod> jamesn: looking at NVDA sourse code, the role strings are there, so they could potentially be announced differently
17:52:31 <carmacleod> s/sourse/source
17:53:59 <carmacleod> jongund: I don't have a problem merging them
17:54:28 <joanie> q+ To say we should triple check the minutes and comments to figure out why we didn't do what I suggested in the first place
17:55:23 <carmacleod> mck: do the aria mapping based on context - if the context is table, use a caption, etc
17:56:23 <carmacleod> jongund: so a single role, say "caption", that AAM maps differently to platform roles
17:56:43 <carmacleod> joanie: don't we have a proposed legend role that landed in master?
17:57:04 <joanie> ack me
17:57:04 <Zakim> joanie, you wanted to say we should triple check the minutes and comments to figure out why we didn't do what I suggested in the first place
17:57:05 <carmacleod> joanie: are we talking about nuking the legend role in the aria spec?
17:57:44 <carmacleod> joanie: in favor of hypothetically getting rid of legend role and only have caption role
17:58:00 <carmacleod> joanie: which is what I suggested in the first place....
17:58:35 <carmacleod> joanie: so we need to go back in the previous minutes to find out why we decided to go with separate roles
17:58:55 <carmacleod> scott: I threw the wrench, so I'll do the research
17:59:22 <carmacleod> joanie: scott and I will collaborate and hunt down this history
18:00:13 <carmacleod> curt: I tested reading lang="fr" on a span with JAWS and it works
18:00:16 <pkra> gotta go. have fun at TPAC!
18:01:33 <carmacleod> jamesn: if label has one lang and form field has another, who wins?
18:01:36 <carmacleod> scott: the OS language wins out
18:02:16 <carmacleod> zakim, who is on the call?
18:02:16 <Zakim> Present: jamesn, pkra, Joanmarie_Diggs, Scott_O, carmacleod, CurtBellew, Bryan_Garaventa, Stefan
18:02:25 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2019 ARIA meeting page with remote participation info
18:03:08 <carmacleod> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-aria-minutes.html carmacleod