IRC log of aria on 2019-09-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:51:37 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-aria-irc
16:51:39 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
16:51:39 [Zakim]
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16:51:41 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
16:51:41 [trackbot]
Date: 05 September 2019
16:51:57 [jamesn]
chair: JamesNurthen
16:52:53 [jamesn]
regrets+ HarrisSchneiderman MarkMcCarthy MelanieRichards
16:54:40 [jamesn]
present+
16:57:03 [jamesn]
agenda+ [New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
16:57:03 [jamesn]
agenda+ [New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues)
16:57:03 [jamesn]
agenda+ Future Meeting Schedule
16:57:04 [jamesn]
agenda+ [Agenda for TPAC 2019](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001)
16:57:04 [jamesn]
agenda+ [Issue1019 initial draft for accessible name using caption role](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1020)
16:57:04 [jamesn]
agenda+ [Issue899 accname from heading](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1018)
16:57:04 [jamesn]
agenda+ [Accessible name from caption](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1019)
16:57:05 [jamesn]
agenda+ [Add explicit language regarding name from legend and encapsulation](https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/54)
16:57:05 [jamesn]
agenda+ [Revising what ARIA attributes should be considered global](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/999)
16:57:35 [Scott_O]
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16:58:56 [pkra]
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16:59:25 [pkra]
present+
16:59:45 [joanie]
present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:00:53 [jongund]
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17:01:10 [Scott_O]
present+
17:03:39 [carmacleod]
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17:03:46 [carmacleod]
present+
17:04:00 [CurtBellew]
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17:04:18 [CurtBellew]
present+
17:05:56 [carmacleod]
scribe: carmacleod
17:06:04 [carmacleod]
agenda?
17:06:48 [carmacleod]
zakim, next item
17:06:48 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "[New Issue Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2F
17:06:51 [Zakim]
... core-aam&type=Issues)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:07:05 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-08-22+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
17:07:17 [BGaraventa]
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17:07:40 [BGaraventa]
present+ Bryan_Garaventa
17:09:06 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/56
17:09:24 [carmacleod]
jamesn: is this an issue for accname?
17:10:05 [carmacleod]
mck: the language of the page is the language of the label
17:10:26 [Stefan]
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17:10:29 [carmacleod]
jamesn: based on the presumption that you can change the language of a label
17:10:34 [Stefan]
present+
17:11:37 [carmacleod]
james: does someone want to own this and answer the questions
17:12:35 [carmacleod]
joanie: is the goal for AT to have automatic language switching?
17:14:02 [carmacleod]
james: I don't think any of these points are for accname
17:14:38 [carmacleod]
joanie: if the screen reader isn't doing the right thing, open a bug against screen reader
17:14:47 [carmacleod]
scott: I'll take it
17:14:56 [carmacleod]
all: thanks, Scott
17:17:06 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1048
17:17:25 [pkra]
of course of cours.
17:17:28 [carmacleod]
jamesn: Who can take this one?
17:17:57 [mck]
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17:18:06 [carmacleod]
jamesn: Leave it open for now
17:18:18 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1047
17:18:26 [carmacleod]
jamesn: label as question
17:18:38 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1046
17:18:50 [carmacleod]
mck: I'll take this
17:19:07 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1045
17:19:18 [carmacleod]
joanie: won't fix; close it
17:19:30 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1044
17:19:38 [carmacleod]
jamesn: on tpac agenda
17:19:55 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1043
17:20:06 [carmacleod]
jamesn: any comments?
17:21:35 [carmacleod]
scott: probably best to leave over in aria-practices to avoid duplication
17:22:20 [carmacleod]
mck: people need to know what it takes to trigger a live region, and it needs to be accurate
17:23:36 [carmacleod]
mck: there will be a list in aria-practices
17:23:50 [carmacleod]
james: aim for 1.3
17:25:06 [carmacleod]
peter: perhaps this should be closed for now; can be reopened with more info later after aria-practices text is finalized
17:25:29 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1042
17:25:36 [carmacleod]
scott: I'll take this one
17:28:37 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1041
17:29:08 [carmacleod]
carmacleod: I'll take this because there's still an outstanding pr for what goes back into the accessibility tree
17:29:25 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1040
17:29:42 [carmacleod]
jamesn: bug in our tablet section
17:29:57 [carmacleod]
jamesn: I've already looked at this - I'll take it
17:29:57 [pkra]
james I feel I should offer to respond to the vague live region question / issue 1043
17:30:34 [carmacleod]
jamesn: please do!
17:30:46 [pkra]
I don't want to ;-) just feel obliged.
17:30:50 [pkra]
will do.
17:30:51 [carmacleod]
zakim, next item
17:30:51 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "[New PR Triage](https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-09-05+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-a
17:30:54 [Zakim]
... am&type=Issues)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:31:00 [jamesn]
https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2019-08-22+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues
17:31:08 [carmacleod]
zakim, next item
17:31:08 [Zakim]
agendum 2 was just opened, carmacleod
17:31:20 [carmacleod]
zakim, close this item
17:31:20 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
17:31:21 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:31:21 [Zakim]
3. Future Meeting Schedule [from jamesn]
17:31:27 [carmacleod]
zakim, next item
17:31:27 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Future Meeting Schedule" taken up [from jamesn]
17:32:20 [carmacleod]
jamesn: no meeting next week or the week after, due to tpac. Will meet week after that.
17:32:24 [carmacleod]
zakim, next item
17:32:24 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, carmacleod
17:32:30 [carmacleod]
zakim, close this item
17:32:30 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
17:32:31 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:32:31 [Zakim]
4. [Agenda for TPAC 2019](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001) [from jamesn]
17:32:33 [carmacleod]
zakim, next item
17:32:33 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "[Agenda for TPAC 2019](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:32:54 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001
17:33:42 [jamesn]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eeq-xg0li2IKEIiyKsqhv-QOxArtbTV3m0OrG8ns-w4/edit?usp=sharing
17:34:16 [carmacleod]
jamesn: link to schedule, above
17:34:58 [carmacleod]
jamesn: if not attending, and if there's a topic you want to discuss, we will schedule it early in the morning; please let us know
17:35:28 [carmacleod]
jamesn: please ask specific questions about the schedule in email
17:36:06 [carmacleod]
jamesn: joint meetings with several other groups - those can't be moved
17:36:16 [carmacleod]
zakim, next item
17:36:16 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "[Issue1019 initial draft for accessible name using caption role](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1020)" taken up [from jamesn]
17:36:40 [carmacleod]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1020
17:36:58 [carmacleod]
jamesn: finally discussing caption role
17:37:03 [pkra]
joanie would you forgive me for not getting up at 11am on Monday (4am my time)?
17:37:34 [carmacleod]
jongund: you can use captions in html, but no equivalent role, so added
17:37:43 [Stefan]
q+
17:38:33 [carmacleod]
jongund: can be associated with figure, grid, or table
17:38:35 [Stefan]
q-
17:38:47 [carmacleod]
stephan: add treegrid
17:39:07 [carmacleod]
jamesn: what does it map to on the platform?
17:39:40 [carmacleod]
joanie: IA2, gecko have this
17:41:02 [carmacleod]
mck: allows naming of these things using separate element with role
17:41:43 [carmacleod]
joanie: ATK says you use the relation label-for
17:42:36 [carmacleod]
joanie: if there is no accessible name, Orca looks for the label-for/labelled-by relation
17:44:43 [jongund]
https://raw.githack.com/w3c/aria/issue1019-accname-from-caption/index.html#namecalculation
17:47:43 [carmacleod]
scott: why do both HTML caption and figcaption map to "caption" role?
17:48:02 [carmacleod]
scott: and there's a separate role for legend
17:48:31 [carmacleod]
jongund: because legend has clickable behavior
17:49:19 [carmacleod]
jamesn: the relationships point to the group, but one is a role caption and one is a role label
17:50:27 [carmacleod]
mck: speaking for screen readers: user has no idea whether something is a caption or a label - they are both announced the same way
17:51:39 [jamesn]
https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/blob/6fcf06aae2ab396de947701e036de5c9b85f4d9f/source/controlTypes.py
17:52:14 [carmacleod]
jamesn: looking at NVDA sourse code, the role strings are there, so they could potentially be announced differently
17:52:31 [carmacleod]
s/sourse/source
17:53:59 [carmacleod]
jongund: I don't have a problem merging them
17:54:28 [joanie]
q+ To say we should triple check the minutes and comments to figure out why we didn't do what I suggested in the first place
17:55:23 [carmacleod]
mck: do the aria mapping based on context - if the context is table, use a caption, etc
17:56:23 [carmacleod]
jongund: so a single role, say "caption", that AAM maps differently to platform roles
17:56:43 [carmacleod]
joanie: don't we have a proposed legend role that landed in master?
17:57:04 [joanie]
ack me
17:57:04 [Zakim]
joanie, you wanted to say we should triple check the minutes and comments to figure out why we didn't do what I suggested in the first place
17:57:05 [carmacleod]
joanie: are we talking about nuking the legend role in the aria spec?
17:57:44 [carmacleod]
joanie: in favor of hypothetically getting rid of legend role and only have caption role
17:58:00 [carmacleod]
joanie: which is what I suggested in the first place....
17:58:35 [carmacleod]
joanie: so we need to go back in the previous minutes to find out why we decided to go with separate roles
17:58:55 [carmacleod]
scott: I threw the wrench, so I'll do the research
17:59:22 [carmacleod]
joanie: scott and I will collaborate and hunt down this history
18:00:13 [carmacleod]
curt: I tested reading lang="fr" on a span with JAWS and it works
18:00:16 [pkra]
gotta go. have fun at TPAC!
18:01:33 [carmacleod]
jamesn: if label has one lang and form field has another, who wins?
18:01:36 [carmacleod]
scott: the OS language wins out
18:02:16 [carmacleod]
zakim, who is on the call?
18:02:16 [Zakim]
Present: jamesn, pkra, Joanmarie_Diggs, Scott_O, carmacleod, CurtBellew, Bryan_Garaventa, Stefan
18:02:25 [MichaelC]
-> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2019 ARIA meeting page with remote participation info
18:03:08 [carmacleod]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/05-aria-minutes.html carmacleod