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13:26:07 <dom> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-networks-ig/2019Aug/0004.html
13:26:15 <dom> Chairs: Sudeep, DanD, Song
13:26:34 <dom> Meeting: Web & Networks IG teleconference
13:26:43 <dom> RRSAgent, make log public
13:57:48 <sudeep_> sudeep_ has joined #web-networks
14:01:00 <dom> Present+ Dom, DanD, Sudeep, Song, YajunChen, Xiaowei, Picky
14:03:40 <cpn> cpn has joined #web-networks
14:04:53 <dom> Present+ Jonas_Svennebring
14:05:26 <dom> Sudeep: [reviewing agenda]
14:05:40 <dom> ... we will present the TPAC agenda on which we're seeking feedback
14:06:19 <cpn> present+ Chris_Needham
14:06:52 <dom> ... we will then discuss a use case, with a particular illustration from an Intel team, who will also give a more in-depth presentation during TPAC
14:07:36 <dom> Topic: TPAC Agenda
14:08:06 <dom> Dan: TPAC is very close - it's important to focus on the topics we're trying to cover
14:08:17 <dom> ... we will be meeting on Tuesday from 8:30am to 5pm
14:08:43 <dom> ... we would start at 8:30 with logistics, intros, some background and concrete references that Dom will be presenting
14:09:04 <dom> ... then we'll have a break - always great opportunity for informal discussions during TPAC
14:09:30 <dom> ... then we'll dive into guiding principles for the "hint framework" - going into examples and spending some time analyzing what worked and doesn't
14:09:53 <dom> ... then Song will cover an update on liaisons
14:10:19 <dom> ... then lunch, after which we'll get our guest speaker session with an Intel team presenting a more detailed explanation of the solutions they've been working on
14:10:34 <dom> ... that could form the basis for an API
14:10:52 <dom> ... after the afternoon break, we have more use cases review - we're looking for input and feedback from participants on how to drive this effectively
14:11:31 <dom> ... we will have many opportunities to touch upon use cases throughout the day, but we want to take advantage of the F2F to go into more details in these use cases
14:13:15 <dom> ... we will have IG members, observers - it's a good opportunity for a dialog
14:13:16 <dom> q+
14:13:55 <cpn> scribenick: cpn
14:14:35 <cpn> Dom: We have 50 observers registered, which is a good sign, but unlikely they'll all come. We'd need to take into account the size of the group
14:15:28 <cpn> Dan: We can use sticky notes to gather ideas for discussion. Then we can combine the ideas, or work from the prepared agenda. We should be open to suggestions from members and observers.
14:16:12 <cpn> ... It's important to have a bi-directional communication, not just have presentations
14:17:00 <dom> scribenick: dom
14:17:01 <dom> cpn: in the Media & Entertainment IG, we've dedicated to a "look-ahead" session for new use cases & requirements
14:17:17 <dom> ... one of the tools that we will be using is a flipchart to keep track of ideas as they emerge
14:17:28 <dom> ... inviting people to share their thoughts on unaddressed use cases
14:17:52 <dom> ... it is a challenge - not everybody has something to contribute, many people will be observing rather than contributing
14:18:11 <dom> ... in that situation, it's up to the chairs of the group to really to come with your own ideas to seed the conversation
14:18:28 <dom> Dan: agree that we'll need to stimulate the dialog
14:18:52 <dom> ... the idea of having sticky notes to keep track of ideas as they come up would be useful
14:18:57 <dom> ... even if we can't review them all
14:19:05 <dom> ... we'll have to make sure we have the right logistics
14:19:31 <dom> ... I really want this to be a two-way communications
14:19:41 <dom> ... although I expect it will be hard to break the ice
14:19:52 <dom> Sudeep: assuming we identify new requirements out of this session
14:20:12 <dom> ... would it make sense to schedule a follow-on breakout session to look at how to addressing that requirement
14:20:16 <cpn> q+
14:20:19 <dom> ... q-
14:20:21 <dom> q-
14:20:33 <dom> ... to get feedback on what we would have identified
14:20:43 <dom> cpn: I would strongly recommend that you do that
14:20:54 <dom> ... I hope that the session grid will have space
14:21:04 <dom> ... we've done that often with the Media & Entertainment IG
14:21:27 <dom> Dan: For the Wednesday session, the door is open for ideas
14:21:41 <dom> ... this year the suggestion for sessions are collected ahead of time
14:21:45 <dom> ... we could place a stakeholder
14:21:57 <cpn> q-
14:22:16 <dom> ... Getting back to the agenda, I think it's worth injecting a 5-10 minutes early in the morning to explain this process
14:24:53 <dom> Present+ Jon_Devlin
14:24:57 <dom> q+ songfeng
14:25:25 <dom> Sudeep: we will have remote participation enabled for TPAC if you can't make it to the meeting
14:26:44 <dom> DanD: on another note: lunch is a good opportunity for informal discussions
14:27:50 <dom> Topic: Use case: Network Link Performance Prediction
14:28:43 <dom> Topic: Liaisons
14:28:45 <zkis> present+ Zoltan_Kis
14:29:20 <dom> [Presenting slides: Status in liaison organizations and topics for TPAC]
14:29:40 <dom> Song: first, some background on existing activity in W3C
14:29:58 <dom> ... Network information API is defined in the WICG
14:30:05 <dom> ... last updated last February
14:30:26 <dom> ... The API enables Web apps to access info about the network status (e.g. wifi, wirless, bluetooth connection)
14:30:35 <dom> ... Second, WebXR - discussed in the Immersive Web WG
14:30:42 <dom> ... pretty active ongoing work
14:31:28 <dom> ... WebRTC is one of the most important WG in the org, nearly done
14:31:58 <dom> ... Web of Things Architecture, in CR, last modified in May - IoT has strong links to networking
14:32:22 <dom> ... In terms of candidate items for TPAC
14:32:41 <dom> ... 5G Network Slicing - network slicing divides networks in multiple virtual networks based on app requirements
14:33:40 <dom> ... we're trying to establish a liaison with the relevant group
14:34:03 <dom> ... Edge computing enables integrating network, computing, storage in nodes
14:34:13 <dom> ... operators have developed their own edge computing APIs
14:34:39 <dom> ... China Mobile has a Web MEC API proposal with several scenarios
14:35:48 <dom> ... (face detection, WoT, Edge caching for UHD service)
14:36:05 <dom> ... it works with MECNodeService to which one can register and then send requests
14:36:43 <dom> ... Because Edge Computing is pretty important for apps in new networks (e.g. 5G), some operators have defined their own APIs already
14:37:26 <dom> ... we're looking at liaisons to ETSI & 3GPP who have defined set of APIs (incl location, bandwidth management, radio network)
14:38:21 <dom> ... Real-time network adoption is another interesting area of interest
14:38:31 <dom> ... based on mobile throughput guidance information
14:39:12 <dom> ... Cloud gaming needs further thinking
14:39:50 <dom> ... Best network selection - how to determine which link to use - related to network slicing
14:40:33 <dom> dom: will you give a more in-depth presentation on Web MEC?
14:40:48 <dom> Song: this is still a very early stage proposal
14:41:41 <dom> ... we're still working on modifying it - once we're done, we will be able to share more
14:42:54 <dom> Picky: on your slide on MEC - how does this intersect with 5G data plans
14:44:25 <dom> Song: let's revisit that offline
14:44:26 <dom> Topic: Use case: Network Link Performance Prediction
14:44:37 <dom> -> https://github.com/w3c/web-networks/files/3554137/Intel.LPP.-.W3C.Web.n.Networking.IG.r1.0.pdf Network Link Performance Prediction
14:44:59 <dom> Sudeep: Jonas and Jon are IG participants from Intel
14:45:13 <dom> ... they've been working on topics that are overlapping with some of our discussions esp around hints
14:45:23 <dom> ... they'll give us some introduction to their work to stimulate our discussions
14:45:30 <dom> Jonas: we will be in TPAC
14:45:41 <dom> ... The work was stimulated by 5G
14:46:01 <dom> ... 5G brings better performance, but also more variation within networks
14:46:50 <dom> ... as we're moving towards edge compute, this creates also more variation
14:47:01 <dom> ... edge can mean many different things which induce many different behaviors
14:47:39 <dom> ... Networks are "best effort" today - we have been interested in seeing how we can make them more deterministic and to better inform app of their network environment
14:48:24 <dom> ... We've been investigating network link performance prediction - not in a Web-specific context
14:48:52 <dom> ... one starting point is that we don't want to control apps - hence the "hints" approach that matched what has been discussed in the IG
14:49:02 <dom> ... we're looking both at current and future link performance
14:49:17 <dom> ... along a number of parameters: bandwidth, latency, cell load and more
14:49:44 <dom> ... a typical example where this is relevant: if you're driving your car, you may going between a macro cell with low load then high load and back to low
14:49:57 <dom> ... a network-aware app could pre-fetch data to take these expected changes into account
14:50:05 <dom> ... e.g. in a video streaming context
14:50:21 <dom> ... the same could be applied to coverage gaps
14:50:47 <dom> ... We've also looking at the challenge of mmWave which have very small coverage and very high throughput
14:50:58 <dom> ... there are other cases where this applies, but these are the key areas
14:51:13 <dom> ... We're making these links prediction as a service on the side
14:51:29 <dom> ... it's transparent from a client/service perspective, available to both
14:51:55 <dom> ... the point here is that it should be agnostic to cloud or edge
14:52:05 <dom> ... we're also not touching the data streams itself
14:52:20 <dom> ... it would typically deployed in the operators network and then fetched from client or server
14:52:50 <dom> ... in TPAC we will dive in more details in terms of the predictions are generated, and how they could be exposed in Web apps, in browsers, in servers
14:53:10 <dom> ... We have a number of use cases that illustrate how the predictions could be used
14:53:33 <dom> ... A simple case is media streaming - you need to look at the value add across the various network stakeholders
14:53:47 <dom> ... There is a benefit here to the end user, to the content provider and to the operator
14:54:09 <dom> ... in media streaming, this means less buffer delays for real-time media
14:54:42 <dom> ... for non-real time streams, it helps reduce the amount of data transmission in the network
14:54:54 <dom> ... we will cover these additional use cases in TPAC as well
14:55:22 <dom> ... We're very interested in getting feedback and reactions
14:56:21 <dom> dom: very exciting! looking forward to hear more at TPAC
14:56:51 <dom> sudeep: note relationship to the "smart offline download" use case
14:58:50 <dom> dom: agreed - the notion of "gap coverage" can be well related to the notion of cost/cell load
14:59:26 <dom> jonas: we're looking at usage behaviors to inform our research on utilizing this
14:59:49 <dom> sudeep: there will also be a demo during TPAC?
15:00:18 <dom> jonas: one keep example is media streaming; next will be cloud gaming which is more driven by server-side prediction
15:00:35 <dom> ... we will be present a cloud-gaming set up to show the benefits of link prediction
15:00:47 <dom> ... we will show also media streaming with and without link prediction
15:01:06 <dom> cpn: where will the demos be?
15:01:17 <dom> sudeep: there is demo slot on Wednesday
15:01:32 <dom> cpn: I'll mention it to the Media IG
15:02:09 <dom> Sudeep: the slides that were presented are available on github - the discussion can continue there
15:02:15 <dom> ... we will continue this discussion at TPAC
15:02:23 <dom> ... we will share the Webex details for the meeting there
15:02:49 <dom> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/04-web-networks-minutes.html dom
15:08:04 <dom> i/Meeting:/ScribeNick: dom
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