IRC log of pointerevents on 2019-09-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:39:51 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
14:39:51 [RRSAgent]: logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/04-pointerevents-irc
14:40:18 [patrick_h_lauke]: MeetingL PEWG
14:40:34 [patrick_h_lauke]: Chair: patrick_h_lauke
14:40:41 [patrick_h_lauke]: Scribe: patrick_h_lauke
14:41:39 [patrick_h_lauke]: rrsagent, set logs world-visible
14:57:06 [patrick_h_lauke]: present+ patrick_h_lauke
15:01:40 [NavidZ_]: present+ NavidZ
15:06:05 [patrick_h_lauke]: Navid: had a task to define pointer capture scope
15:06:07 [NavidZ_]: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/300
15:06:24 [NavidZ_]: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/16
15:06:39 [patrick_h_lauke]: limits only work on a document. there was an old issue about security risk if not restricted in iframes
15:06:49 [patrick_h_lauke]: maybe we should always limit to sandboxed iframes
15:07:14 [patrick_h_lauke]: recently we decided to just live with this and see if use cases come up, and that's what latest PR does
15:07:30 [patrick_h_lauke]: matches chrome behavior, and olli was ok with it as well
15:07:58 [patrick_h_lauke]: if inner iframe sends pointerID, can outer frame/parent capture it
15:08:30 [NavidZ_]: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/291
15:08:58 [patrick_h_lauke]: will send request on mailing list to see if we agree on resolution of latest pull request
15:09:32 [patrick_h_lauke]: rrsagent, action: ask on mailing list for resolution on PR 300
15:09:44 [NavidZ_]: Next topic:
15:09:45 [NavidZ_]: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/204
15:10:40 [patrick_h_lauke]: Daniel: this came out of research in platform stuff on windows. OS actually can do better job of rendering pointer trail etc, so provide metadata on what app has drawn and leave it up to OS to do rest
15:11:16 [patrick_h_lauke]: no concrete proposal, but wanted to get sense from cross-platform perspective
15:11:28 [patrick_h_lauke]: Navid: question also how much we can support this feature across platforms
15:12:11 [patrick_h_lauke]: also comes down to amount of metadata - e.g. do we pass on what pressure is, or what the line thickness/radius should be
15:12:44 [patrick_h_lauke]: Daniel: should be some kind of transform/radius of the size of the tip. OS can also match end of trail to more seamless ink stroke...
15:13:36 [patrick_h_lauke]: Navid: wonder if we can enough exposure so last piece of trail is not so far away from the coords that were globbed by the app itself (?)
15:14:12 [patrick_h_lauke]: Daniel: being able to determine support, apps can opt in/out
15:14:50 [patrick_h_lauke]: more like a graceful degradation approach. what would support look like on other platforms? does it match how other platforms support inking at OS level? early stages/ideas
15:15:27 [patrick_h_lauke]: you can see this with Windows native OneNote app, depending on which brushes are used
15:15:48 [patrick_h_lauke]: Navid: looking forward to something more concrete, but if you see reduced latency we may have interest
15:16:00 [patrick_h_lauke]: Daniel: will do more prototyping, hopefully something to share at TPAC
15:16:16 [patrick_h_lauke]: Navid: one update regarding an issue...
15:16:23 [NavidZ_]: Next topic:
15:16:24 [NavidZ_]: https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/100
15:17:33 [patrick_h_lauke]: prototyped something that can be tested behind flag
15:17:52 [patrick_h_lauke]: not fully compatible because coords are promoted from integer to float
15:18:17 [patrick_h_lauke]: landed a change behind a flag, going to discuss this with UIEvents/web apps WG at TPAC
15:19:07 [patrick_h_lauke]: Navid: regarding merging extension document merging: touch-action move done, still work to be done to more the coalesced/raw stuff
15:19:29 [patrick_h_lauke]: will work on those and send PR addressing most of those
15:19:48 [patrick_h_lauke]: one aspect to consider is privacy. raw/coalesced only to secure origins
15:20:13 [patrick_h_lauke]: security person in Google pointed out this exposes specific device capabilities/properties
15:20:25 [patrick_h_lauke]: can fingerprint device of the user (e.g. 1000 Hz mouse)
15:20:41 [patrick_h_lauke]: maybe not quite a permission model, but only to secure origin
15:20:58 [patrick_h_lauke]: are there any other APIs that follow this?
15:21:05 [patrick_h_lauke]: Daniel: think it makes sense
15:21:22 [patrick_h_lauke]: not sure if i've seen secure origin for privacy reasons
15:21:45 [patrick_h_lauke]: Navid: permission model may be too hard to specify, but at least secure origin mitigates man in the middle attacks etc
15:22:05 [patrick_h_lauke]: Daniel: i have seen it with paint worklet and animation worklet
15:22:33 [patrick_h_lauke]: Navid: will check if there's some wording or similar that we can use
15:24:33 [patrick_h_lauke]: Patrick: we already have some language in spec about user agents also allowing user to stop certain info from being exposed at the user's request. worth using same for this here too
15:27:10 [patrick_h_lauke]: I will check on our side what we have, and it's worth expanding to cover coalesced/raw even more strongly. And secure origin only is a mitigation, but won't help if you as user don't actually want a site to track you (secure origin or not)
15:27:27 [patrick_h_lauke]: [mention of calls, AOB, TPAC]
15:28:10 [patrick_h_lauke]: Patrick: we don't have an actual meeting planned for TPAC (as I also won't be able to make it this time), but if people who are already there and want to have a semi-formal skype call or something, let me/the list know
15:29:29 [patrick_h_lauke]: (as an aside, just checked PE spec, and we have wording around user agents MAY consider allowing users to turn things off in https://w3c.github.io/pointerevents/#security-and-privacy-considerations)
15:29:37 [patrick_h_lauke]: rrsagent, create minutes
15:29:37 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/04-pointerevents-minutes.html patrick_h_lauke
15:30:04 [patrick_h_lauke]: rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:30:17 [patrick_h_lauke]: rrsagent, bye
15:30:17 [RRSAgent]: I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2019/09/04-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
15:30:17 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: ask on mailing list for resolution on PR 300 [1]
15:30:17 [RRSAgent]: recorded in https://www.w3.org/2019/09/04-pointerevents-irc#T15-09-32