IRC log of silver on 2019-09-03
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:28:32 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-silver-irc
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- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 13:28:37 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Silver Community Group Teleconference
- 13:28:37 [trackbot]
- Date: 03 September 2019
- 13:28:46 [janina]
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- 13:28:58 [jeanne]
- chair: jeanne
- 13:29:03 [jeanne]
- present:
- 13:29:05 [CharlesHall]
- present+
- 13:29:06 [jeanne]
- regrets"
- 13:29:07 [janina]
- present+
- 13:29:12 [jeanne]
- present+
- 13:29:16 [jeanne]
- regrets:
- 13:29:26 [jeanne]
- regrets+ Shawn
- 13:29:54 [jeanne]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 13:29:54 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 13:29:56 [jeanne]
- agenda+ Update from people working on functional user needs updates
- 13:29:56 [jeanne]
- agenda+ Continue with functional user needs on Migration Map
- 13:31:35 [bruce_bailey]
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- 13:33:22 [jeanne]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 13:33:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Update from people working on functional user needs updates" taken up [from jeanne]
- 13:34:12 [jeanne]
- Charles: I have 2 items
- 13:34:14 [bruce_bailey]
- present+
- 13:34:32 [CharlesHall]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#audio-only-and-video-only-prerecorded
- 13:35:26 [jeanne]
- CH: 1.2.8 and 1.2.9
- 13:35:46 [jeanne]
- ... I took the benefits from the Understanding doc
- 13:36:03 [jeanne]
- ... I rephrased them using our language
- 13:36:11 [jeanne]
- ... I then created a combined statement
- 13:36:14 [CharlesHall]
- Usage without the ability to listen due to: any human factor (like ear pain); or any technical factor (like poor signal); or contextual factor (due to quiet environment)
- 13:37:24 [Makoto]
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- present+
- 13:41:27 [Jan]
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- 13:41:31 [Jan]
- present+ Jan
- 13:44:37 [jeanne]
- Janina: I wonder about quiet environment. You can put on headphones
- 13:45:11 [jeanne]
- Jeanne: Headphones aren't always an option. Is it
- 13:45:13 [CharlesHall]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#sensory-characteristics
- 13:45:59 [CharlesHall]
- Usage with limited color perception due to: human factors (like age); technical factors (like display quality); or contextual factors (like bright ambient light)
- 13:46:24 [jeanne]
- Jeanne: Is this really about functional needs rather than disability first needs? We decided about a year ago that we would do functional needs, knowing htat it is a controversial topic that may need to be revisited. '
- 13:46:33 [jeanne]
- Janina: not at this time
- 13:47:24 [jeanne]
- Charles: There are people that have trouble distinguidshing between colors but don't fall in the category of color deficiency.
- 13:47:29 [janina]
- zakim, who's here?
- 13:47:29 [Zakim]
- Present: CharlesHall, janina, jeanne, bruce_bailey, Makoto
- 13:47:31 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Jan, Makoto, bruce_bailey, janina, RRSAgent, CharlesHall, jeanne, johnkirkwood, MichaelC_, stevelee, Zakim, JimA, tink, yatil, hdv, alastairc, trackbot
- 13:48:24 [jeanne]
- jeanne: I would like to add the example of a disability here.
- 13:49:32 [jeanne]
- Charles: THere are studies of people over 65 who have trouble distinguishing gray colors or pastel colors, but have no trouble distinguishing the colors
- 13:50:16 [jeanne]
- ... they may need to have a contrast range that is different than people with color deficiency.
- 13:52:16 [jeanne]
- Bruce: I think the way we are approaching it with WCAG 2.
- 13:52:23 [bruce_bailey]
- yes, Andrew Sommers
- 13:53:13 [bruce_bailey]
- q+
- 13:54:07 [jeanne]
- Janina: Is there a measure that would help us?
- 13:55:03 [bruce_bailey]
- ack me
- 13:55:19 [jeanne]
- Jeanne: Andy has said that there are technological improvements. He is working with Chuck and Cybele on Color Contrast. They said that they have a breakthrough that is exciting, but they aren't ready to addtess it.
- 13:55:45 [jeanne]
- Charles: It is called @@. It can be addressed in the Methods.
- 13:56:35 [jeanne]
- Bruce: That sounds good to me. It's a mechanic, that would be addressed in. I am more concerned about people who have too much color.
- 13:58:14 [jeanne]
- Janina: That is something we need to address to CSS. We need to get CSS onboard. We need better technological solutions.
- 13:58:33 [bruce_bailey]
- simultaneous contrast
- 13:58:38 [jeanne]
- s/@@/ simultaneous contrast
- 13:59:11 [jeanne]
- Charles: The proximity of colors can be perceived differently, even if the contrast is the same
- 13:59:44 [bruce_bailey]
- charles gave example of buttons side-by-side impacting legibility
- 13:59:52 [Jan]
- I can scribe, Jeanne
- 14:00:36 [bruce_bailey]
- Example: a yellow text on red button next to a yellow button with red text -- both would be less legible
- 14:01:43 [Jan]
- Jeanne: We need more volunteers to work on functional needs
- 14:02:20 [Jan]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit?usp=sharing
- 14:03:04 [jeanne]
- https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit#heading=h.fpeqlt9qnga1
- 14:03:39 [jeanne]
- Topic: SC 1.2.2 Captions (Prerecorded), SC 1.2.4 Captions (Live), SC 1.2.6 Sign Language (Prerecorded)
- 14:04:30 [jeanne]
- User need(s) for captions (prerecorded and captions live)
- 14:04:30 [jeanne]
- ...Users cannot hear all or part of the audio component of movies and multimedia and need captions to fully understand the content.
- 14:04:30 [jeanne]
- ...Users who need multisensory input need captions paired with audio to understand content.
- 14:04:30 [jeanne]
- ...Users with situational, environmental barriers cannot hear all or part of the audio components in media and need captions to fully understand the content.
- 14:04:32 [jeanne]
- ...Users learning a second language may use captions to support language acquisition.
- 14:05:04 [jeanne]
- User need(s) for sign language (prerecorded)
- 14:05:04 [jeanne]
- ...Users whose first language is sign language and cannot hear all or part of the audio component of movies and multimedia need sign language to fully understand the content.
- 14:05:04 [jeanne]
- ...Users whose first language is sign language may have difficulty with the rate of captions and the structure of written language and need sign language to fully understand the content.
- 14:05:39 [jeanne]
- Jan: I'm not sure if we phrased it correctly.
- 14:06:05 [jeanne]
- Charles: I would suggest that "need captions" would be the Method, or solution
- 14:07:04 [jeanne]
- Jan: Different levels of hearing loss may have environmental problems related to their hearing loss. What may be audible in one environment may not be audible in another
- 14:07:26 [jeanne]
- ... if you think of it as "a language" rather than a foreign language
- 14:08:33 [jeanne]
- Jan: SHould I cross out the examples that are more Methods?
- 14:09:01 [jeanne]
- Charles: What I did was cross them out in the User Need section and move them into the Methods section of the Outline.
- 14:09:37 [jeanne]
- ... It's relative -- if it is important to capture them for understanding, you should use them.
- 14:10:09 [jeanne]
- Jan: Right now it doesn't capture the user need of people with disabilities. People always assume we are talking about a sports bar.
- 14:10:53 [jeanne]
- ... People with autism have difficulty processing environmental noise. I don't know if we need to state that.
- 14:14:28 [jeanne]
- Jeanne: I think you should include it. WHen people look at this work it will be helpful to have a more detailed breakdown of cognitive needs. Traditionally in standards work, we have had a detailed breakdown of sensory disability needs, but have kept congitive disability needs as one category, without a breakdown. The more we can breakdown cognitive needs and address them individually in
- 14:14:28 [jeanne]
- the functional needs, the better our work will be (in my opinion).
- 14:14:53 [janina]
- +1 to better specificity
- 14:18:31 [jeanne]
- Janina: I think "fully understand" would be very difficult to achieve -- particularly with artistic movies
- 14:18:53 [jeanne]
- ... I think "effectively understand" would be an improvement and more achievable.
- 14:19:32 [jeanne]
- Janina: Things are effective to a certain degree. They also require a certain amount of skill and that is not easy to achieve.
- 14:20:05 [jeanne]
- ... people who learned sign language first may find captions very difficult to achieve
- 14:21:12 [jeanne]
- ... deafness is socially isolating. That's a difference between sensory disabilities -- blind is not socially isolating.
- 14:21:24 [CharlesHall]
- sorry. I can’t commit to draft any more presently. busy ahead of TPAC.
- 14:21:32 [CharlesHall]
- i have to drop off the call now.
- 14:26:54 [johnkirkwood]
- present+
- 14:27:00 [janina]
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- 14:27:04 [johnkirkwood]
- have a good one!
- 14:27:27 [jeanne]
- Jeanne: Please volunteer for writing a functional need. It saves a lot of time when the hard work is done outside the meeting.
- 14:27:35 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:27:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-silver-minutes.html jeanne
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- rrsagent, make logs public
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- s/regrets"//
- 14:29:38 [jeanne]
- s/Is it// For example, some people with tinnitus should not wear headphones.
- 14:30:23 [jeanne]
- s/we are approaching it with WCAG 2./we are approaching it with WCAG 2 covers the examples given.
- 14:31:25 [jeanne]
- s/they aren't ready to addtess it./they aren't ready to report to the group on it.
- 14:31:55 [jeanne]
- s/that would be addressed in. I am/that would be addressed in Methods. I am
- 14:32:58 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:32:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-silver-minutes.html jeanne
- 14:34:14 [jeanne]
- present+ Jan
- 14:34:21 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:34:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-silver-minutes.html jeanne
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