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13:28:32 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-silver-irc
13:28:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:28:37 <trackbot> Meeting: Silver Community Group Teleconference
13:28:37 <trackbot> Date: 03 September 2019
13:28:46 <janina> janina has joined #silver
13:28:58 <jeanne> chair: jeanne
13:29:03 <jeanne> present:
13:29:05 <CharlesHall> present+
13:29:06 <jeanne> regrets"
13:29:07 <janina> present+
13:29:12 <jeanne> present+
13:29:16 <jeanne> regrets:
13:29:26 <jeanne> regrets+ Shawn
13:29:54 <jeanne> zakim, clear agenda
13:29:54 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:29:56 <jeanne> agenda+ Update from people working on functional user needs updates
13:29:56 <jeanne> agenda+ Continue with functional user needs on Migration Map
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13:33:22 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 1
13:33:22 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Update from people working on functional user needs updates" taken up [from jeanne]
13:34:12 <jeanne> Charles: I have 2 items
13:34:14 <bruce_bailey> present+
13:34:32 <CharlesHall> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#audio-only-and-video-only-prerecorded
13:35:26 <jeanne> CH: 1.2.8 and 1.2.9
13:35:46 <jeanne> ... I took the benefits from the Understanding doc
13:36:03 <jeanne> ... I rephrased them using our language
13:36:11 <jeanne> ... I then created a combined statement
13:36:14 <CharlesHall> Usage without the ability to listen due to: any human factor (like ear pain); or any technical factor (like poor signal); or contextual factor (due to quiet environment)
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13:37:42 <Makoto> present+
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13:41:31 <Jan> present+ Jan
13:44:37 <jeanne> Janina: I wonder about quiet environment.  You can put on headphones
13:45:11 <jeanne> Jeanne: Headphones aren't always an option.  Is it
13:45:13 <CharlesHall> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG21/#sensory-characteristics
13:45:59 <CharlesHall> Usage with limited color perception due to: human factors (like age); technical factors (like display quality); or contextual factors (like bright ambient light)
13:46:24 <jeanne> Jeanne: Is this really about functional needs rather than disability first needs?  We decided about a year ago that we would do functional needs, knowing htat it is a controversial topic that may need to be revisited.  '
13:46:33 <jeanne> Janina: not at this time
13:47:24 <jeanne> Charles: There are people that have trouble distinguidshing between colors but don't fall in the category of color deficiency.
13:47:29 <janina> zakim, who's here?
13:47:29 <Zakim> Present: CharlesHall, janina, jeanne, bruce_bailey, Makoto
13:47:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jan, Makoto, bruce_bailey, janina, RRSAgent, CharlesHall, jeanne, johnkirkwood, MichaelC_, stevelee, Zakim, JimA, tink, yatil, hdv, alastairc, trackbot
13:48:24 <jeanne> jeanne: I would like to add the example of a disability here.
13:49:32 <jeanne> Charles: THere are studies of people over 65 who have trouble distinguishing gray colors or pastel colors, but have no trouble distinguishing the colors
13:50:16 <jeanne> ... they may need to have a contrast range that is different than people with color deficiency.
13:52:16 <jeanne> Bruce: I think the way we are approaching it with WCAG 2.
13:52:23 <bruce_bailey> yes, Andrew Sommers
13:53:13 <bruce_bailey> q+
13:54:07 <jeanne> Janina: Is there a measure that would help us?
13:55:03 <bruce_bailey> ack me
13:55:19 <jeanne> Jeanne: Andy has said that there are technological improvements.  He is working with Chuck and Cybele on Color Contrast.  They said that they have a breakthrough that is exciting, but they aren't ready to addtess it.
13:55:45 <jeanne> Charles:  It is called @@.  It can be addressed in the Methods.
13:56:35 <jeanne> Bruce: That sounds good to me.  It's a mechanic, that would be addressed in.  I am more concerned about people who have too much color.
13:58:14 <jeanne> Janina: That is something we need to address to CSS.  We need to get CSS onboard.  We need better technological solutions.
13:58:33 <bruce_bailey> simultaneous contrast
13:58:38 <jeanne> s/@@/ simultaneous contrast
13:59:11 <jeanne> Charles: The proximity of colors can be perceived differently, even if  the contrast is the same
13:59:44 <bruce_bailey> charles gave example of buttons side-by-side impacting legibility
13:59:52 <Jan> I can scribe, Jeanne
14:00:36 <bruce_bailey> Example:  a yellow text on red button next to a yellow button with red text -- both would be less legible
14:01:43 <Jan> Jeanne:  We need more volunteers to work on functional needs
14:02:20 <Jan> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit?usp=sharing
14:03:04 <jeanne> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aCRXrtmnSSTso-6S_IO9GQ3AKTB4FYt9k92eT_1PWX4/edit#heading=h.fpeqlt9qnga1
14:03:39 <jeanne> Topic: SC 1.2.2 Captions (Prerecorded), SC 1.2.4 Captions (Live), SC 1.2.6 Sign Language (Prerecorded)
14:04:30 <jeanne> User need(s) for captions (prerecorded and captions live)
14:04:30 <jeanne> ...Users cannot hear all or part of the audio component of movies and multimedia and need captions to fully understand the content.
14:04:30 <jeanne> ...Users who need multisensory input need captions paired with audio to understand content.
14:04:30 <jeanne> ...Users with situational, environmental barriers cannot hear all or part of the audio components in media and need captions to fully understand the content.
14:04:32 <jeanne> ...Users learning a second language may use captions to support language acquisition.
14:05:04 <jeanne> User need(s) for sign language (prerecorded)
14:05:04 <jeanne> ...Users whose first language is sign language and cannot hear all or part of the audio component of movies and multimedia need sign language to fully understand the content.
14:05:04 <jeanne> ...Users whose first language is sign language may have difficulty with the rate of captions and the structure of written language and need sign language to fully understand the content.
14:05:39 <jeanne> Jan: I'm not sure if we phrased it correctly.
14:06:05 <jeanne> Charles: I would suggest that "need captions"  would be the Method, or solution
14:07:04 <jeanne> Jan: Different levels of hearing loss may have environmental problems related to their hearing loss.  What may be audible in one environment may not be audible in another
14:07:26 <jeanne> ... if you think of it as "a language" rather than a foreign language
14:08:33 <jeanne> Jan: SHould I cross out the examples that are more Methods?
14:09:01 <jeanne> Charles: What I did was cross them out in the User Need section and move them into the Methods section of  the Outline.
14:09:37 <jeanne> ... It's relative -- if it is important to capture them for understanding, you should use them.
14:10:09 <jeanne> Jan: Right now it doesn't capture the user need of people with disabilities.  People always assume we are talking about a sports bar.
14:10:53 <jeanne> ... People with autism have difficulty processing environmental noise.  I don't know if we need to state that.
14:14:28 <jeanne> Jeanne: I think you should include it.  WHen people look at this work it will be helpful to have a more detailed breakdown of cognitive needs.  Traditionally in standards work, we have had a detailed breakdown of sensory disability needs, but have kept congitive disability needs as one category, without a breakdown.  The more we can breakdown cognitive needs and address them individually in
14:14:28 <jeanne> the functional needs, the better our work will be (in my opinion).
14:14:53 <janina> +1 to better specificity
14:18:31 <jeanne> Janina: I think "fully understand" would be very difficult to achieve -- particularly with artistic movies
14:18:53 <jeanne> ... I  think "effectively understand" would be an improvement and more achievable.
14:19:32 <jeanne> Janina: Things are effective to a certain degree. They also require a certain amount of skill and that is not easy to achieve.
14:20:05 <jeanne> ... people who learned sign language first may find captions very difficult to achieve
14:21:12 <jeanne> ... deafness is socially isolating.  That's a difference between sensory disabilities -- blind is not socially isolating.
14:21:24 <CharlesHall> sorry. I can’t commit to draft any more presently. busy ahead of TPAC.
14:21:32 <CharlesHall> i have to drop off the call now.
14:26:54 <johnkirkwood> present+
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14:27:04 <johnkirkwood> have a good one!
14:27:27 <jeanne> Jeanne: Please volunteer for writing a functional need.  It saves a lot of time when the hard work is done outside the meeting.
14:27:35 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:27:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-silver-minutes.html jeanne
14:28:06 <jeanne> rrsagent, make logs public
14:28:42 <jeanne> s/regrets"//
14:29:38 <jeanne> s/Is it// For example, some people with tinnitus should not wear headphones.
14:30:23 <jeanne> s/we are approaching it with WCAG 2./we are approaching it with WCAG 2 covers the examples given.
14:31:25 <jeanne> s/they aren't ready to addtess it./they aren't ready to report to the group on it.
14:31:55 <jeanne> s/that would be addressed in. I am/that would be addressed in Methods. I am
14:32:58 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:32:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-silver-minutes.html jeanne
14:34:14 <jeanne> present+ Jan
14:34:21 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:34:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-silver-minutes.html jeanne
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