IRC log of auto on 2019-09-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:57:32 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-auto-irc
12:57:34 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:57:36 [trackbot]
Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference
12:57:36 [trackbot]
Date: 03 September 2019
12:59:12 [ted]
Present+ John, Ted, Adnan, Glenn
12:59:39 [ted]
Present+ Benjamin
12:59:51 [ted]
Present+ Ulf
13:00:30 [gunnarx]
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13:00:58 [ted]
Present+ Joakim
13:01:59 [ted]
Present+ Gunnar
13:02:57 [ted]
Present+ Sebastian
13:03:14 [ted]
Present+ PatrickL
13:03:55 [ted]
Present+ Daniel
13:06:48 [PatrickLue]
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13:07:31 [ted]
Ted summarizes emails and calls on latest convergence attempts
13:10:59 [ted]
PatrickL: are we in good shape for next week's meetings?
13:11:26 [ted]
Ted: small f2f crowd but not critical mass for our main topic. ws & meetup going well
13:11:40 [ted]
PatrickL: I think we should have sbranch further in the mail thread
13:12:27 [ted]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-automotive/2019Aug/0029.html
13:13:23 [ted]
Ted prompts Ulf to introduce rbranch
13:13:49 [ted]
Ulf: I originally thought of this for being able to bring ViWi data to VSS not the other way around
13:14:25 [ted]
… it is possible to help migrate data from a ViWi model such as media to VSS
13:14:50 [ted]
… without rbranch it is hard to identify what a child looks like or if there is even a child
13:15:26 [ted]
… a resource in ViWi doesn't need a child node but it is possible and you can find out the metadata to see if there may be children, rbranch introduces that
13:16:14 [ted]
… in theory it should work and did some simple test translations but haven't tried a full tree
13:18:42 [ted]
Ted: anyone besides Laurent have thoughts on sbranch?
13:19:08 [ted]
PatrickL: besides the email unsure about the details of the proposal
13:19:30 [ted]
Ulf: I am not sure how sbranch would help with migration in the other direction
13:20:08 [ted]
Ted: @@3level
13:20:43 [ted]
PatrickL: every level within ViWi expresses a certain type, service, resources and bundled data set (nodes)
13:21:08 [ted]
… they are not really comparible given the fixed meaning and structure
13:21:45 [ted]
Daniel: does every microservice have its own endpoint in discovery or everything from one connection?
13:22:00 [PatrickLue]
/<service>/
13:22:10 [PatrickLue]
/<service>/<ressource>/
13:22:33 [ted]
PatrickL: the lowest level root would be service, next resource and third element[s]. it isn't about a tree really
13:22:54 [PatrickLue]
/<s>/<r>/<element>/
13:23:01 [ted]
… there can be multiple services on the same level. elements have several properties
13:23:52 [ted]
Daniel: for me, microservices are a thing of infrastructure. in VSS you could have subtrees served by different service implementations
13:24:45 [ted]
PatrickL: there are multiple things mixed in the idea. for microservice we expect well defined apis and only allowing the service to interact through it
13:25:35 [ted]
… there could be multiple microservices, for instance say anything below .../seat is handled by another service instance
13:27:09 [ted]
… the service resource element could be described further and will do so by email
13:30:39 [ted]
Gunnar: consider what the HTTP request looks like, we should focus on that and figure out the piece behind it
13:33:01 [ted]
… a few goals: VSS tree has been expressed as a good structure and there is a desire to have REST requests reflect that structure
13:33:33 [ted]
… the three depth limit could just be another way to serve those resources
13:34:33 [ted]
… we can leave aside eg uuid for now
13:37:46 [ted]
[tangent on uuids and alternate uri paths]
13:40:05 [ted]
Daniel: there were merits for requesting unique ids for resources
13:40:21 [ted]
… point of Gen2 is to be developer friendly
13:40:44 [ted]
… main focus should be the path
13:46:22 [ted]
Ted: @@alt_data_structures
13:46:50 [ted]
PatrickL: so far people have understood to make their service available there is a structure they need to follow
13:47:19 [ted]
… there have been times where they have had flatter views and challenge to get to depth
13:47:53 [ted]
Ulf: about ability to address unknown data models, the chance of being able to do that is greater with VSS model vs ViWi since former is more flexible
13:48:50 [ted]
Daniel: you have graph interface there, how do you know if you are querying the third level?
13:49:16 [ted]
PatrickL: for tracks you would request everything on the third level
13:50:01 [ted]
Daniel: how do get down to track level in media example, that seems deeper?
13:50:20 [ted]
PatrickL: yes that is the forth level I alluded to
13:51:26 [ted]
Daniel: media player/media collection/album and then how deep can the property level go?
13:51:40 [ted]
PatrickL: it is possible to have tree below that but can only filter on properties
13:51:59 [ted]
… URL always starts same
13:52:17 [ted]
… if not given any filter arguments gives you full json element
13:53:04 [ted]
Daniel: service discovery for first url you don't have since it stays the same?
13:53:30 [ted]
PatrickL: every service is responsible for adding itself to registry, could be solved with something like mdns
13:53:54 [ted]
… everything is known and discoverable. all services bring themselves to the service registry
13:54:16 [ted]
Daniel: that could be different services from VSS branches registering themselves
13:54:20 [ted]
PatrickL: correct
13:54:55 [ted]
Daniel: you could just serve VSS there
13:55:22 [ted]
Benjamin: why can't you have resource and subresource?
13:56:00 [ted]
… I don't understand this depth limitation as it doesn't align with REST principles
13:56:18 [ted]
Daniel: REST doesn't have such limitations
13:57:06 [ted]
… service can be defined by the host contacted and could use different microservices transparently beneath it
13:58:52 [ted]
… an option for Gen2 would be to simply remove the depth limitation
13:59:31 [ted]
PatrickL: we want to avoid adding complexity
14:00:03 [ted]
… easier for someone interested in a certain topic to filter at a higher level than drilling deeper
14:00:35 [PatrickLue]
Media Service Description https://www.w3.org/Submission/2016/SUBM-viwi-service-media-20161213/
14:01:05 [ted]
Daniel: if a query is easier, we need to do a true comparison
14:10:29 [ted]
Tuesday morning PST during f2f will continue this conversation
14:32:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-auto-minutes.html ted
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