12:57:32 RRSAgent has joined #auto 12:57:32 logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-auto-irc 12:57:34 RRSAgent, make logs public 12:57:34 Zakim has joined #auto 12:57:36 Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference 12:57:36 Date: 03 September 2019 12:59:12 Present+ John, Ted, Adnan, Glenn 12:59:39 Present+ Benjamin 12:59:51 Present+ Ulf 13:00:30 gunnarx has joined #auto 13:00:58 Present+ Joakim 13:01:59 Present+ Gunnar 13:02:57 Present+ Sebastian 13:03:14 Present+ PatrickL 13:03:55 Present+ Daniel 13:06:48 PatrickLue has joined #auto 13:07:31 Ted summarizes emails and calls on latest convergence attempts 13:10:59 PatrickL: are we in good shape for next week's meetings? 13:11:26 Ted: small f2f crowd but not critical mass for our main topic. ws & meetup going well 13:11:40 PatrickL: I think we should have sbranch further in the mail thread 13:12:27 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-automotive/2019Aug/0029.html 13:13:23 Ted prompts Ulf to introduce rbranch 13:13:49 Ulf: I originally thought of this for being able to bring ViWi data to VSS not the other way around 13:14:25 … it is possible to help migrate data from a ViWi model such as media to VSS 13:14:50 … without rbranch it is hard to identify what a child looks like or if there is even a child 13:15:26 … a resource in ViWi doesn't need a child node but it is possible and you can find out the metadata to see if there may be children, rbranch introduces that 13:16:14 … in theory it should work and did some simple test translations but haven't tried a full tree 13:18:42 Ted: anyone besides Laurent have thoughts on sbranch? 13:19:08 PatrickL: besides the email unsure about the details of the proposal 13:19:30 Ulf: I am not sure how sbranch would help with migration in the other direction 13:20:08 Ted: @@3level 13:20:43 PatrickL: every level within ViWi expresses a certain type, service, resources and bundled data set (nodes) 13:21:08 … they are not really comparible given the fixed meaning and structure 13:21:45 Daniel: does every microservice have its own endpoint in discovery or everything from one connection? 13:22:00 // 13:22:10 /// 13:22:33 PatrickL: the lowest level root would be service, next resource and third element[s]. it isn't about a tree really 13:22:54 //// 13:23:01 … there can be multiple services on the same level. elements have several properties 13:23:52 Daniel: for me, microservices are a thing of infrastructure. in VSS you could have subtrees served by different service implementations 13:24:45 PatrickL: there are multiple things mixed in the idea. for microservice we expect well defined apis and only allowing the service to interact through it 13:25:35 … there could be multiple microservices, for instance say anything below .../seat is handled by another service instance 13:27:09 … the service resource element could be described further and will do so by email 13:30:39 Gunnar: consider what the HTTP request looks like, we should focus on that and figure out the piece behind it 13:33:01 … a few goals: VSS tree has been expressed as a good structure and there is a desire to have REST requests reflect that structure 13:33:33 … the three depth limit could just be another way to serve those resources 13:34:33 … we can leave aside eg uuid for now 13:37:46 [tangent on uuids and alternate uri paths] 13:40:05 Daniel: there were merits for requesting unique ids for resources 13:40:21 … point of Gen2 is to be developer friendly 13:40:44 … main focus should be the path 13:46:22 Ted: @@alt_data_structures 13:46:50 PatrickL: so far people have understood to make their service available there is a structure they need to follow 13:47:19 … there have been times where they have had flatter views and challenge to get to depth 13:47:53 Ulf: about ability to address unknown data models, the chance of being able to do that is greater with VSS model vs ViWi since former is more flexible 13:48:50 Daniel: you have graph interface there, how do you know if you are querying the third level? 13:49:16 PatrickL: for tracks you would request everything on the third level 13:50:01 Daniel: how do get down to track level in media example, that seems deeper? 13:50:20 PatrickL: yes that is the forth level I alluded to 13:51:26 Daniel: media player/media collection/album and then how deep can the property level go? 13:51:40 PatrickL: it is possible to have tree below that but can only filter on properties 13:51:59 … URL always starts same 13:52:17 … if not given any filter arguments gives you full json element 13:53:04 Daniel: service discovery for first url you don't have since it stays the same? 13:53:30 PatrickL: every service is responsible for adding itself to registry, could be solved with something like mdns 13:53:54 … everything is known and discoverable. all services bring themselves to the service registry 13:54:16 Daniel: that could be different services from VSS branches registering themselves 13:54:20 PatrickL: correct 13:54:55 Daniel: you could just serve VSS there 13:55:22 Benjamin: why can't you have resource and subresource? 13:56:00 … I don't understand this depth limitation as it doesn't align with REST principles 13:56:18 Daniel: REST doesn't have such limitations 13:57:06 … service can be defined by the host contacted and could use different microservices transparently beneath it 13:58:52 … an option for Gen2 would be to simply remove the depth limitation 13:59:31 PatrickL: we want to avoid adding complexity 14:00:03 … easier for someone interested in a certain topic to filter at a higher level than drilling deeper 14:00:35 Media Service Description https://www.w3.org/Submission/2016/SUBM-viwi-service-media-20161213/ 14:01:05 Daniel: if a query is easier, we need to do a true comparison 14:10:29 Tuesday morning PST during f2f will continue this conversation 14:32:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/09/03-auto-minutes.html ted 15:08:29 Zakim has left #auto 17:59:29 Karen has joined #auto 19:46:44 gunnarx has joined #auto 22:34:27 Karen has joined #auto