<scribe> scribe: MarkMccarthy
<Sarah_Higley> Are there any docs about scribing, or the commands for Zakim and RRSAgent?
mck: I'm in a conference next
week, so can't run meeting. Jemma can't either, but we're in a
good place to take a breather
... if we need input from the group, I'll find an asynchronous
way. No meeting on 16, meet again 23rd
jongund: Conflict on 23rd and 30th
mck: so we'll talk about priorities for the rest of the year, 1.2 near the end of the year, so won't continue with 1.1 stuff coming soon. if there are agenda topics or priorities, send them in!
mck: we're going to cut the 1.1
branch tomorrow night and send out a CfC
... we're going to go through the top priorities in the
following topics
mck: jongund is making a case it shouldn't
jongund: right now I don't think
it's very well supported. if we look at the AAM, it doesn't
seem to be...
... the biggest problem I see is in the spec, there's
conflicting information. one of the primary features is
interoperability, 1.1 spec says "some api mappings will
override -describedby".
... macOS doesn't map it at all. so I don't know that we could
reliably recommend it
... it's not part of the accname calculation, maybe BGaraventa
has some more info
... i think there's some things that need to be worked out in
spec first, premature to include it as part of accname
description and calculation
mck: okay, Sarah, last week you thought you could do some testing?
Sarah_Higley: I was actually on vacation last weekend, but I can have results by next week if that's okay
mck: well jongund, are you
suggesting that it shouldn't be in 1.1 spec at all?
... because we have concerns about how it works in practice
jongund: i think it's in there because digital publishing wanted it
mck: we tried to reach out to
George and some other folks to dig up the history; the reason
it's in there now is because it does have an effect on
description
... it takes preference over -describedby, but we don't know
what a screen reader would do with -details as we don't know
about support
<Sarah_Higley> https://www.scottohara.me/blog/2018/11/08/aria-details.html
Sarah_Higley: Scott O'Hara has some details (linked above)
BGaraventa: as far as accname
computtaion goes, I haven't included that, primarily becuase of
confusion on what should be included
... I heard the content from -details shouldn't be included in
the same way that -describedby, right?
jongund: it's not supposed to generate a string like -describedby
mck: the spec says if an API can't support multiple references, -details takes precedence; content of -details should be used to help calc accname
BGaraventa: well, no. AT would say there's information, but it's unclear what would happen if there was a description that goes to a named region
mck: so, if there's related information ....
jongund: the only API that has a conflict is UIAutomate, the other mappings (IA2, MSAA, ATK) are othagonal, so they use lots of information to compute the descriptions/names
mck: what about AX?
jongund: it's not supported, so
it doesn't work with MacOS. It can't interfere because the Mac
doesn't know it's there
... I'm not exactly sure what UIAutomate does, but -details
maps to the same IDREF as -describedby
... so basically it'll plug in the ref for -describedby
Sarah_Higley: -details doesn't
appear to affect help text in UIA, unlike -describedby
... well, in practice
jongund: do we want something with this many problems in the AP right now?
mck: 1, we can remain silent, which might be a bad idea. 2, we can put it in some kind of warning or guidance (maybe in -describedby section), as maybe there's no danger of using it if it doesn't interfere
jongund: well they need to be warned some platforms don't get this info
mck: well, maybe the only options
are to include a warning if it interferes, or remove it
entirely
... if it appears it never interferes, we don't need a
warning
Sarah_Higley: I don't know for
sure that it doesn't interfere, but that UIA puts this
information into help text.
... There might be different interpretations, not sure if
there's enough screen reader support
mck: do any web browsers support UIA?
Sarah_Higley: chromium edge will
probably add UIA support, alongside IA2
... probably better to ask someone on the chrome edge team
mck: i don't really know what to
do, not sure we have enough information
... would it be better to remove it completely, or leave as
is?
jongund: remove completely
Sarah_Higley: leave it out, for now at least
jongund: my testing shows that
most screen readers ignore it. in 6 months, maybe things will
change
... will there ever be a mapping for AX for example?
mck: okay, I think we should add
aria-details to the TPAC agenda
... not hearing support for leaving it in, i'll get it out of
the accname section and somewhere else for safe keeping
... we'll discuss this in the working group
mck: I think I addressed all the
feedback in issue 1050, other than offtopic comments,
... BGaraventa have you been able to read the entire draft
yet?
BGaraventa: I can do that this afternoon
mck: that'd be really helpful,
especially in light of this discussion
... there's a link to the latest version in the issue
... BGaraventa, are you comfortable leaving the information
about groups and author content the way it is? it seems like
there's inconsistency in implementation
... i don't want to document that in AP, but I don't know what
might be best
BGaraventa: I'm going to be responding to Aaron later today, and just that.
mck: if you see something that
should change, based on that thread, let us know
... not sure if there are some other changes that should be
made, I'm mostly comfortable with things as is
BGaraventa: i'll read through and comment where I can. I'll be out next week, back on the following, just so you know
mck: we're cutting the branch tomorrow, so that shouldn't be a factor
mck: jongund, i saw you removed -controls
jongund: yup and took care of -expanded
mck: okay cool. I did see we're
referring the button in two different ways. when refer to it in
the doc, we should use its accname?
... or how to refer?
jongund: maybe "choose date". I can make those changes. It's mostly in the keyboard support docs
mck: cool, that'd help
... one editorial thing, when I refer to a button in the middle
of a sentence, do we normally put the name in quotes to make it
recognizable? I want to make sure we're more consistent moving
forward
... do we capitalize? put in quotes? i'm leaning towards always
quoting them
jongund: quotes are good
MarkMccarthy: I like quotes
mck: using q element I
suppose
... anything we do inside the code tags, we can use regular
quote characters
mck: I think we're ready to go
with disclosures, except one thing Sarah?
... we don't need to clean up history, because they get
squashed
Sarah_Higley: I just noticed
that
... I try to keep feature branch commits at the top
mck: I just use Github's auto
merge feature, so it can run tests etc.
... if you prefer rebasing, I can do that, it's just not as
convenient
Sarah_Higley: I can really work with whatever, but if i'm working on it myself I prefer to rebase so i can see history etc.
mck: there's a merge in this
branch which resulted from a pull, so it didn't fast forward.
it might've gotten squashed and had a few commit conflicts on
my local
... not a big deal, just an extra merge
... i just pushed a rewrite of the accessibility features
bullet before this meeting
Sarah_Higley: there was a brief
dicussion about how to articulate that, so I was wondering what
the best course of action might be
... i was initially trying to avoid being too specific about
any certain behavior
mck: right, so I reworded it and
I hope I captured it
... [discussing github preview linking issues]
mck: here's a preview link to the
changes (above)
... under accessibility features, the first three bullets are
unchanged, the fourth one about CSS is unchanged, number 5 is
what was changed
<mck> 2. Optional navigation key support is primarily for the benefit of keyboard users who are not running a screen reader. Screen readers that have both reading
<mck> and interaction modes intercept these navigation keys and do not pass them to the page when the screen reader is in reading mode. When interacting with
<mck> this example, such screen readers are typically in reading mode because this example does not use a widget role that triggers screen reader interaction
<mck> mode.
mck: [changed text above]
... if people are okay with that wording, then i can use that
to fix your comment on the following bullet (number 3)
Sarah_Higley: that looks good for 5.2
mck: one way to word this, that
seems techy, is "because this example doesn't use a composite
widget role, tab is expected to navigate..." so just changing
the reason why
... but that might be a little too much unless people read and
understand the spec
Sarah_Higley: I think everyone would benefit from having the most baseline keyboard interaction
mck: so I think I can take
advantage of the changes to make what's in 5.3 clearer
... any other changes?
Sarah_Higley: only something optional, a couple mispellings (which I don't see now), so it should be fine
mck: disclosure example looks ready, spectranaut, were there changes for auto rotating carousel?
spectranaut: I think it's ready
jongund: yeah, it should be
mck: tooltip on toolbar should be
ready, jongund did you look at it?
... I don't see the title attr anywhere, so that's good
... date picker spin button, how're we doing?
Sarah_Higley: I left some
comments, which jongund responded to
... I noticed the year doesn't wrap, day and month do. argument
was that it can be an example for how to do both.
jongund: i didn't add anything into documentation about that, we could add something though
mck: if we do add it, we need a test for it
Sarah_Higley: documentation says
some dates wrap
... [reading docs about days and months for date picker]
... I think it's fine
jongund: the other comment was aria value text updating for year and it didn't need to, thanks for catching that Sarah_Higley
mck: do these spin buttons have visible touch targets?
Sarah_Higley: yeah
jongund: yep
... they're hidden with aria-hidden
mck: if using this on mobile, would you have to type?
jongund: there's no edit box, this is just three spin buttons
mck: screen reader says there's edit boxes
jongund: but there's no input element
mck: weird, JAWS says it's
editable
... so everything's looking pretty good. thanks everyone, we'll
have an announcement out soon.
jongund: if there are any changes needed until the 20th, I can do that.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/oaky/okay/ Succeeded: s/remove as is/leave as is/ Succeeded: s/q tags/q element/ Succeeded: s/catching/catching that/ Present: jongund Sarah_Higley MarkMccarthy spectranaut ZoeBijl BryanGaraventa Bryan_Garaventa Found Scribe: MarkMccarthy Inferring ScribeNick: MarkMccarthy Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/July-9%2C-2019-Meeting WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]