19:51:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwg
19:51:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-irc
19:51:49 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, make logs public
19:51:54 <PWinstanley> chair: PWinstanley
19:52:11 <PWinstanley> regrets+ RiccardoAlbertoni, Alejandra
19:52:26 <PWinstanley> meeting: DXWG Plenary
19:58:51 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #dxwg
19:59:00 <TomB> * Peter, can you hear me?
20:00:56 <roba> roba has joined #dxwg
20:02:13 <SimonCox> present+
20:02:20 <plh> plh has joined #dxwg
20:02:40 <antoine> antoine has joined #dxwg
20:02:41 <plh_> plh_ has joined #dxwg
20:04:06 <antoine> present+
20:04:14 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #dxwg
20:04:24 <roba> present+
20:04:24 <DaveBrowning> DaveBrowning has joined #dxwg
20:04:32 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwg
20:04:49 <SimonCox> scribenick SimonCox
20:04:53 <SimonCox> scribe SimonCox
20:04:58 <roba> * will pass - i have to take family to train station in 30 minutes...
20:05:07 <AndreaPerego> present+
20:05:08 <annette_g> present+
20:05:34 <PWinstanley> present+
20:05:35 <plh_> present+
20:05:41 <TomB> present+
20:05:51 <SimonCox> Topic: agenda
20:05:52 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2019.05.21
20:06:02 <DaveBrowning> present+
20:06:17 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:06:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:06:22 <SimonCox> Topic: minutes of previous meeting
20:06:23 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2019/05/14-dxwg-minutes
20:06:37 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:06:43 <SimonCox> Proposed: approve minutes of previous meeting
20:06:47 <PWinstanley> +1
20:06:49 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:06:51 <SimonCox> +1
20:06:51 <DaveBrowning> +1
20:06:57 <annette_g> I'm missing from regrets, otherwise +1
20:07:00 <antoine> +0
20:07:05 <SimonCox> resolved: approve minutes of previous meeting
20:07:13 <roba> +0
20:07:19 <TomB> +0
20:08:58 <SimonCox> topic: Conneg current position
20:09:12 <roba> q+
20:09:17 <PWinstanley> ack roba
20:09:21 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: has there been any publicity? any feedback?
20:09:41 <SimonCox> roba: TomB & Fung
20:10:21 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: checked if W3C does a media release - answer no
20:10:34 <SimonCox> ... so has written a blog item
20:10:46 <SimonCox> ... to get put into W3C blog
20:11:18 <SimonCox> ... at PriceWaterhouse last week, looking at public service vocabularies
20:11:32 <AndreaPerego> It would be important also to announce it on the public-comments mailing list.
20:11:46 <SimonCox> ... there is interest there too.
20:11:56 <PWinstanley> q?
20:12:09 <SimonCox> Action: PWinstanley to check if an announcement has been made to public comments list
20:12:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-329 - Check if an announcement has been made to public comments list [on Peter Winstanley - due 2019-05-28].
20:12:27 <SimonCox> topic: DCAT status
20:12:29 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:12:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:12:47 <PWinstanley> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/99375/DCAT_PR/results
20:13:16 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: poll to move DCAT2 to PR - current status 16 +1s - plh_ agrees OK to proceed on that basis
20:13:28 <plh_> q+
20:13:54 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: a lot of purely editorial work on document in last couple of weeks - shout out to AndreaPerego  in particular
20:14:15 <PWinstanley> ack plh_
20:14:18 <SimonCox> ... we have not focussed on implementation evidence yet.
20:14:41 <SimonCox> plh_: correction - next status is Candidate Rec (not Proposed rec)
20:15:16 <SimonCox> ... CR must show substantive issues are resolved, and level of wide review from the community
20:16:16 <plh_> Internationalization, Privacy, Security, Shape Expressions CG, SHACL Community Group, schema.org for datasets Community Group, ODRL Community Group, European Commission's ISA Programme, Research Data Alliance, and bioCADDIE WG 3.
20:16:37 <SimonCox> plh_: posted list of groups that should be pinged
20:17:05 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:17:26 <PWinstanley> ack AndreaPerego
20:17:31 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
20:17:53 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: ISA has been informed
20:17:55 <annette_g> Dan Brinkley from schema.org has been involved in DCAT a bit.
20:18:14 <SimonCox> ... RDA AndreaPerego and SimonCox are members
20:18:29 <SimonCox> ... DanBri is member of DXWG
20:19:08 <SimonCox> ... alejandra represents BioCaddie
20:19:37 <SimonCox> plh_: since this is a revision, then some considerations carry over.
20:19:51 <SimonCox> ... internationalization, privacy
20:20:02 <SimonCox> ... depends on the nature of the actual changes
20:20:14 <SimonCox> q+
20:20:22 <PWinstanley> ack SimonCox
20:20:24 <annette_g> q+
20:21:11 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: ON the shape expressions and SHACL groups, there was intention to do things in that space, but we have not done so - so is involvement of them still relevant?
20:21:16 <PWinstanley> ack annette_g
20:21:29 <SimonCox> SimonCox: since we have not used ShEx or SHACL do we need to consult with those groups?
20:21:45 <TomB> I think the ShEx CG could be interested if we understand what is being requested
20:21:48 <SimonCox> annette_g: we should be as wide ranging as possible - solicit feedback anyway
20:21:59 <SimonCox> q+
20:22:11 <TomB> not a question
20:22:14 <PWinstanley> ack SimonCox
20:22:27 <TomB> If the request is clear, I think ShEx CG would be interested in engaging
20:22:44 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: What should we ask of the community groups?
20:22:50 <SimonCox> plh_: "we believe the spec is read; do they have any comments before we move ahead?"
20:22:56 <SimonCox> s/read/ready/
20:23:47 <SimonCox> action: DaveBrowning to formally notify these CGs with plh_ -style request
20:23:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-330 - Formally notify these cgs with plh_ -style request [on David Browning - due 2019-05-28].
20:24:29 <SimonCox> plh_: recommend new PWD including the latest changes
20:24:38 <plh_> https://www.w3.org/wiki/DocumentReview#TL.3BDR
20:24:50 <SimonCox> action: plh_ to progress new PWD
20:24:50 <trackbot> Error finding 'plh_'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/users>.
20:25:13 <DaveBrowning> q+
20:25:30 <PWinstanley> ack DaveBrowning
20:26:04 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: privacy group has done questionnaire
20:26:50 <roba> SheX and SHACL are not affected by DCAT - but there is an issue of how to link constraints models they express to the concepts that datasets conform to -  profiles provides a "wrapper" to enable that.
20:27:03 <plh_> http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/shortchecklist
20:27:24 <SimonCox> Proposed: release new PWD of DCAT2
20:27:33 <SimonCox> +1
20:27:39 <TomB> roba, good point - it is not clear to me what aspects of DCAT the ShEx CG would want to review
20:27:47 <PWinstanley> +1
20:27:48 <DaveBrowning> +1
20:27:51 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:27:54 <roba> +1
20:27:54 <TomB> +1
20:27:56 <annette_g> +1
20:28:04 <SimonCox> resolved: release new PWD of DCAT2
20:28:08 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:28:10 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:28:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
20:28:13 <PWinstanley> ack AndreaPerego
20:28:20 <antoine> +1
20:28:40 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: one last ed fix before plh_ action
20:29:23 <SimonCox> ... subtitle - currently "Revised edition" - shoudl it be "Version 2"?
20:29:38 <SimonCox> s/shoudl/should/
20:30:12 <SimonCox> see https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/
20:30:33 <roba> * i have to run in a few moments :-(  - info is profiles vocab undergoing implementation and review in ODRL, OGC and LOCI projects anyway - feedback on conneg doc points to some further improvements making clear that "profile" is "relative" to where you start, and all specifications can be viewed as profiles.
20:30:40 <SimonCox> Proposed: subtitle should say "Version 2"
20:30:42 <SimonCox> +1
20:30:45 <DaveBrowning> +1
20:30:46 <PWinstanley> +1
20:30:49 <annette_g> +1
20:30:51 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:30:55 <roba> +`1
20:31:08 <antoine> +0
20:31:20 <TomB> +1
20:31:22 <SimonCox> resolved: subtitle should say "Version 2"
20:31:38 <AndreaPerego> Relevant PR: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/938
20:31:42 <SimonCox> action: AndreaPerego to make change subtitle should say "Version 2"
20:31:50 <trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker.  Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
20:33:06 <SimonCox> Or should it be "Second Edition"? like OWL, XSD ...
20:34:36 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: we previously agreed to not be precious about version numbers and expect them to accelerate with 'evergreen' status
20:34:41 <roba> * off - may get back before end of hour..
20:35:41 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: any more on DCAT?
20:35:45 <AndreaPerego> q+
20:36:12 <PWinstanley> ack AndreaPerego
20:36:16 <SimonCox> TomB: unclear that ShEx CG would have any real comments
20:36:44 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: asks plh_ how to assemble implementation evidence
20:36:58 <SimonCox> ... varies widely for vocabularies ...
20:37:16 <SimonCox> ... e.g. tests that vocabs are being used 'validly'
20:37:25 <SimonCox> ... demonstrate use in other contexts
20:37:46 <SimonCox> ... in particular who is using the parts of the vocabulary that are part of the _changes_
20:37:52 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: timing?
20:38:10 <SimonCox> plh_: at least 4 weeks, + wide review
20:38:31 <SimonCox> ... group charter ends at end of June
20:38:49 <SimonCox> ... need to request an extension
20:39:00 <SimonCox> ... 3 or 5 months? How much do we need?
20:39:04 <SimonCox> s/5/6/
20:40:02 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
20:40:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:40:15 <SimonCox> Topic: Do we need an extension for DXWG?
20:40:40 <SimonCox> plh_: even with an extension, will it be long enough for Profiles vocabulary?
20:40:49 <SimonCox> ... might need a new charter?
20:41:04 <TomB> q+ to ask whether we are talking about Profile Guidance or Profile Vocabulary?
20:41:20 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: release Profiles Vocab as a WG note for now, then new WG (new charter) for Profiles as rec
20:41:29 <antoine> q+
20:41:47 <PWinstanley> ack TomB
20:41:47 <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask whether we are talking about Profile Guidance or Profile Vocabulary?
20:42:40 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: clarification - the chartered deliverable is Profile Guidance.
20:42:44 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
20:43:49 <SimonCox> ... which is a long way behind and unlikely to be delivered in 3 months - due to 'northern summer'
20:44:30 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: current status of Profile Guidance document?
20:45:09 <SimonCox> ... work is still rather amorphous
20:45:14 <TomB> +1 that the document is fairly amorphous (ie, would need alot of work)
20:45:29 <TomB> q+
20:45:33 <AndreaPerego> s/Profiles vocabulary/Profile Guidance/
20:45:35 <PWinstanley> ack TomB
20:45:36 <antoine> q+
20:46:05 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
20:46:09 <annette_g> +1 to TomB
20:46:49 <SimonCox> antoine: profiles guidance work was put on hold
20:47:32 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: DCAT and Conneg do not dependent on profiles work
20:47:42 <SimonCox> s/dependent/depend/
20:48:02 <roba> * back
20:48:08 <TomB> q+ to say that conneg and dcat seem quite separate from the Profiles Guidance and Vocabulary - could go to Recommendation without dependence on Profiles Vocab/Guidance
20:48:16 <PWinstanley> ack TomB
20:48:16 <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to say that conneg and dcat seem quite separate from the Profiles Guidance and Vocabulary - could go to Recommendation without dependence on Profiles
20:48:19 <Zakim> ... Vocab/Guidance
20:48:21 <antoine> q+
20:48:26 <SimonCox> ... perhaps we should recognize that the profiles work will only be a distraction from delivering DCAT and Conneg
20:48:34 <DaveBrowning> q?
20:48:53 <SimonCox> ... and separate/defer it.
20:49:29 <annette_g> (my +1 was for TomB's opinion that profiles guidance should be published along with other profiles docs)
20:49:38 <SimonCox> TomB: there is no difficulty to move forward with DCAT and Conneg, as long as any cross-references to profiles work is disentangled from with the documents
20:49:43 <PWinstanley> ack annette_g
20:49:48 <TomB> +1 to focus on Conneg and Dcat
20:49:53 <PWinstanley> ack antoine
20:50:33 <SimonCox> antoine: yes, DCAT can be extracted
20:50:40 <roba> q+
20:50:53 <SimonCox> ... however, Conneg needs to answer the question "what is a profile" by itself.
20:51:11 <SimonCox> ... rather than refer to defs in Profiles guidance
20:51:17 <PWinstanley> ack roba
20:51:53 <SimonCox> roba: most comments relate to question of 'what is a profile'. Examples needed, which we all agree on.
20:52:36 <SimonCox> ... We should also be able to issue Profiles Vocab as a "Note" to encourage and support use
20:52:44 <TomB> +1 to antoine - that Conneg could answer the question "what is a profile" by itself - ideally, this would be done in Guidance, but not essential - could be done in Conneg
20:52:53 <SimonCox> ... no resources have been committed to "Guidance" document yet
20:53:44 <SimonCox> ... Profiles negotiation is incomplete without a clear explanation of what a profile is
20:54:51 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: can we write a short ("low fat") document or section that explains what a profile is?
20:55:10 <SimonCox> roba: profiles vocabulary does this - 3 classes, a few axioms
20:55:47 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: can 'what is a profile' be extracted from this? Profiles _vocabulary_ implementation is not needed for definition.
20:56:25 <SimonCox> roba: Don't know. Difficult without a formalism. Vague words don't cut it.
20:57:01 <SimonCox> ... profiling is a relative process - tends to depend on where you start. Is DCAT a 'profile' of RDF, for example ...?
20:57:36 <SimonCox> ... "Profile" is highly contextual - what looks like a profile to one person might not to another.
20:58:19 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: what extension do we need for DWXG? 3 months insufficient to complete DCAT and COnneg safely, given seasonal constraints upcoming.
20:58:29 <TomB> q+ to ask for confirmation that Profiles Vocabulary, if pursued, would be a Note
20:58:38 <PWinstanley> ack TomB
20:58:38 <Zakim> TomB, you wanted to ask for confirmation that Profiles Vocabulary, if pursued, would be a Note
20:58:43 <SimonCox> s/insufficient/likely insufficient/
20:59:01 <SimonCox> q+
20:59:14 <PWinstanley> ack SimonCox
20:59:45 <SimonCox> proposed: DXWG request 6 months extension
21:00:41 <SimonCox> SimonCox: ask for clarification - already agreed that Profiles Vocab would be issued at Note at some stage, but not sure if under current charter etc.
21:00:41 <annette_g> +1
21:00:45 <roba> +1
21:00:47 <SimonCox> +1
21:00:52 <PWinstanley> +1
21:00:55 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:00:57 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:01:05 <TomB> q+ extension for what - can we put that in the resolution text?
21:01:09 <antoine> +1
21:01:20 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: we will clarify schedules for Profiles activities in due course
21:02:24 <SimonCox> s/DXWG request 6 months extension/DWXG request a 6 months extension, during which DCAT and COnneg will be completed, and decisions will be made concerning the future plans for the Profiles work/
21:02:34 <TomB> +1
21:02:53 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, draft minutes v2
21:02:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:02:54 <SimonCox> resolved: DWXG request a 6 months extension, during which DCAT and Conneg will be completed, and decisions will be made concerning the future plans for the Profiles work
21:03:03 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, draft minutes v2
21:03:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:03:04 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: thanks all for hard work
21:03:14 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
21:03:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-minutes.html PWinstanley
21:03:46 <AndreaPerego> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2019.05.21
21:03:50 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:03:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/05/21-dxwg-minutes.html AndreaPerego