<jeanne> present?
jeanne: some last minute details for the CSUN meeting
<scribe> scribe: LuisG
<Cyborg> sorry if you posted a link, could you please repost
<jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/2019_CSUN_F2F_Meeting#AGWG_Team_Dinner
jeanne: this is the page for
everyone at the CSUN F2F meeting including remote folk
... we'll be starting at 8:30 a.m. Pacific Time working with
AGWG first thing in the morning
... meeting in Anaheim Marriot room 312
... that is also on the wiki page
... please no more registrations
JF: Looking forward to meeting everyone
Lauriat: likewise
jeanne: if you are a member of
the community group, I will send you credentials privately to
get into the meeting first thing in the morning. we'll be using
their webex, so it's a different set of codes
... you won't be able to get into their webex because of how
the W3 permissions are set up
... 8:30 to 12 with Guidelines working group. you should arrive
by 8 so you can be ready to work by 8:30.
... we're going to need to come up with a name for the
guidelines since "Silver" is the project name and we need
something before it gets too much visibility
... we're going to give a status update of where we are and
then we'll be getting a plain language workshop.
... we've given some of the templates from last fall for
example guidelines and methods...they're going to help us
translate those to plain language
... we're also invited to their team dinner; the wiki page has
been linked
<Lauriat> Dinner info link: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Main_Page/CSUN2019_teamdinner
cyborg: what about for chatting or video?
jeanne: will probably have to use
IRC for chat, I don't believe they use video
... we'll be able to share the link for the presentation; we
might be able to broadcast it through the webex screenshare
cyborg: would remote be able to participate in the plain language workshop?
jeanne: it'll be in our room, so you should be able to.
cyborg: if there are slides, I would like to participate in that as well
jeanne: we'll try to get as much
stuff on webex
... anything else on CSUN?
jeanne: Lauriat and I were working on the CSUN presentation
<Lauriat> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/11du_WWkSM2GZvV60z70uwPxcMeDBuWlpgd4ND6pKX9A/edit
Lauriat: we don't need to go
through slide by slide...because it's 31 slides...but at a high
level...
... brief background intro, goals, and overall plan with a "we
are here"
... we'll probably edit the Draft Requirements after our
meetings
jeanne: should we give some examples of SC moving into silver or should we prune that?
JF: I think it would be extremely useful. the AG working group will be talking about WCAG 2.2; I think it would be appropriate
jeanne: this is going to be for CSUN presentation, not the AGWG presentation
JF: generally of the same opinion
chuck: to the general audience, it's probably a key thing people would be looking for
LuisG: agreed
cybele: I noticed that meaningful involvement is listed, but not included in the slides
jeanne: I was actually hoping I could get an idea from you of what could go in there
cybele: I can try and put something together...how should I get it in there?
jeanne: you could just send it
LuisG: should we mention we're looking for a name?
lauriat: maybe at the start that Silver is the name of the project, not the guidelines
cyborg: is the timeline in slide 4 still accurate?
jeanne: I'll adjust them to be a little more accurate
<JF> +1 to Shawn
lauriat: I just made a best guess...they're not completely arbitrary, but they're subject to being adjusted at any time
cyborg: I noticed in the content there are a lot of topics related to some issues I've raised up around data protection. will those folks be in our meetings, can I connect with them somehow?
jeanne: it's hard to do..someone
would have to agree to attend the session and give the question
to the person giving the session...not sure they give the email
address of those giving the sessions anymore
... presenters usually get mobbed, so it's hard to get to
them
... if there are any particular ones, shawn or I can try to
reach out to them
Charles: there's a general practice or someone curating a list of links to slide decks, so the community is sharing what they saw
cyborg: please keep me in the loop for that
jeanne: we can post them to the
Silver list as we see those pop up in social media
... I've created a status deck based on content from the CSUN
slide deck, should we review that?
lauriat: maybe just post a link
jeanne: I would like to get the combined prototype into a nicer format before the face to face meeting
<jeanne> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tGB1-m5QcrLcbrFB4OuVKiUh8I709Qca
jeanne: this is a mockup of what the combined prototype could look like
<Lauriat> More direct link to the doc: https://drive.google.com/file/d/14FibeGwnx5eXbu87j1TeY5fBQQ6ZJpH_/view
jeanne: we have talked about
different ways of sorting or filtering the guidelines
... I also wanted to show a principle of "only seeing
perceivable" etc.
... it would use real arrow instead of keyboard arrows, but
that's what I had
... in the actual guidelines section, I took some of the
samples that people wrote and I used those for the listing of
what guidelines could look like..with a link to more
details
... the section headings one is the only one that links to the
actual prototype..and if I have time I'll move the others into
the prototype
... it's very sketchy but I thought it was a good idea to show
people the sketchy part before coding it up
<Charles> i think it could be even less fidelity approaching zero, like a priority guide: https://alistapart.com/article/priority-guides-a-content-first-alternative-to-wireframes
cybele: it seems a little
overwhelming
... some of that is related to organization, some ??, but
mostly it not being clear hierarchy or ??
<Charles> when something is this level of fidelity, people infer that it is either representative or prescriptive
cybele: I think the first page would give someone an idea of how usable it would be...so the simpler the better
jeanne: not sure this would be
the first page they would see
... maybe if they asked for the guidelines
lauriat: I think the point is
important; a lot of people see the guidelines first
... they don't link to the overview or introduction
... agree a lot of this comes from overall UX considerations; I
want to make sure we work with the folks in education outreach
WG and figuring out what kinds of resources we should say we
need in order to present something usable
... as well as accessible, obviously, but we should include
things like a UX designer or UX tech writer to try things out
and make sure we're presenting something that's understandable
and usable to people
JF: looking at simple language, I have some concerns about some of it..can I verify this is just a draft?
jeanne: yes, this is very much a
draft
... it's basically a step above Lorem ipsum
JF: I think most people we know scan and don't read everything. when you're sharing, I would draw attention to the first paragraph. I went directly to scanning through the headings
Lauriat: +1 I think that note is more on the prototype than an introduction to the guidelines.. we should make it clear that "this is not real"
<Charles> I think a comparative outline is more effective: WCAG next to the proposed outline
cyborg: the key words to me are "very early draft" and "not proposed as content for silver"
lauriat: I think that would help
especially for the information architecture aspect
... we might want to do comparisons at a couple of levels
<Charles> per Cybelle and other comments, this feels like a comp for a UI. per Shawn, people will react to the design.
lauriat: want to carefully
consider the design aspects. it has a pretty severe effect on
how people perceive what's in front of them...if the rough
prototype is complex, it might give the wrong impression that
it's because of the information architecture
... this kind of prototype is for people that have asked for it
since we've given them others in isolation, but they wanted
this to see how everything fits together
<Cyborg> UX feels overwhelming and disorganized, too busy and not addressing needs of audience approaching Silver for guidance.
lauriat: maybe we could still share some of this but with enough caveats of "this is early draft" "not edited" "not at the right level" etc.
jeanne: thank you, I've been scribbling a lot of notes
<Cyborg> Search to big topics to individual guidance might be a next start to prototype?
lauriat: and we're at time. see folks at CSUN!
<Lauriat> trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Default Present: jeanne, Chuck, JF, Charles, AngelaAccessForAll, shari, Lauriat, Jennison, Cyborg, Jan, LuisG, KimD WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Lauriat, kirkwood, KimD, CharlesHall, JF, Cyborg, jeanne, bruce_bailey, Chuck, LuisG, AngelaAccessForAll, Charles, shari, Rachael, RedRoxProjects, Makoto) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ jeanne Present: jeanne Chuck JF Charles AngelaAccessForAll shari Lauriat Jennison Cyborg Jan LuisG KimD Found Scribe: LuisG Inferring ScribeNick: LuisG Found Date: 08 Mar 2019 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]