IRC log of dxwgdcat on 2019-02-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:47:18 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
20:47:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-irc
20:47:27 [alejandra]
rrsagent, make logs public
20:47:29 [alejandra]
chair: alejandra
20:48:13 [alejandra]
Meeting: DCAT-Telecon2019.02.20
20:48:27 [alejandra]
Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.02.20
20:49:47 [alejandra]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:49:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:50:03 [alejandra]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:50:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:50:20 [alejandra]
rrsagent, make logs public
20:50:25 [alejandra]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:50:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:53:08 [alejandra]
regrets+ DaveBrowning
20:53:12 [alejandra]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:53:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:53:24 [PWinstanley]
PWinstanley has joined #dxwgdcat
20:57:50 [Makx]
Makx has joined #dxwgdcat
20:58:26 [Makx]
present+ Makx
20:59:36 [AndreaPerego]
AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
20:59:40 [AndreaPerego]
present+
20:59:43 [alejandra]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:59:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
21:04:00 [SimonCox]
SimonCox has joined #dxwgdcat
21:04:06 [PWinstanley]
present+
21:04:07 [SimonCox]
present+
21:04:42 [SimonCox]
scribenick: SimonCox
21:04:48 [SimonCox]
scribe: SimonCox
21:04:54 [alejandra]
https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.02.20#Main_agenda
21:04:58 [SimonCox]
topic: confirm agenda
21:05:19 [riccardoAlbertoni]
riccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwgdcat
21:05:30 [riccardoAlbertoni]
present+
21:06:01 [alejandra]
q?
21:06:29 [SimonCox]
topic: confirm minutes of previous meetings
21:06:42 [alejandra]
https://www.w3.org/2019/02/05-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:06:43 [SimonCox]
https://www.w3.org/2019/02/05-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:06:55 [Makx]
+1
21:07:01 [alejandra]
+1
21:07:03 [SimonCox]
+1
21:07:03 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:07:04 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:07:07 [PWinstanley]
+1
21:07:10 [alejandra]
ack AndreaPerego
21:07:24 [AndreaPerego]
+1
21:07:30 [SimonCox]
resolved: 2019-02-05 approved
21:07:35 [SimonCox]
https://www.w3.org/2019/02/06-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:07:50 [AndreaPerego]
+1
21:07:53 [Makx]
0
21:07:55 [alejandra]
+1
21:07:57 [SimonCox]
+1
21:08:02 [PWinstanley]
+1
21:08:02 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:08:18 [SimonCox]
resolved: 2019-02-06 approved
21:08:27 [SimonCox]
https://www.w3.org/2019/02/13-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:08:32 [SimonCox]
+1
21:08:37 [alejandra]
+1
21:08:37 [AndreaPerego]
0 (was not there)
21:08:42 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:08:51 [Makx]
+1
21:08:54 [PWinstanley]
+1
21:08:57 [SimonCox]
resolved: 2019-02-13 approved
21:09:09 [SimonCox]
topic: Publication schedule
21:09:11 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:09:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:09:29 [AndreaPerego]
present+ alejandra
21:09:31 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:09:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:09:35 [SimonCox]
Makx email comment on deadlines
21:10:39 [SimonCox]
Sprints are not aligned with work packages for the identified WDs
21:10:39 [alejandra]
q?
21:10:57 [SimonCox]
... propose that next WD is the last before CR
21:11:23 [SimonCox]
... though team has decided to focus on sprints and the ED, rather than new formal WD
21:11:40 [SimonCox]
... propose one final WD mid-March
21:11:45 [alejandra]
q?
21:11:57 [SimonCox]
... going to CR mid-April
21:12:35 [AndreaPerego]
Makx's mail: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2019Feb/0358.html
21:12:45 [SimonCox]
alejandra: sprints were explicitly separate from milestones; rather focussed on groups of issues or themes that were important and not being given enough time
21:13:03 [SimonCox]
... team already decided to focus on content.
21:13:03 [SimonCox]
q+
21:13:15 [alejandra]
q?
21:13:19 [alejandra]
ack SimonCox
21:13:55 [PWinstanley]
SimonCox: I think we decided to also, in lieu of more WD, send significant changes to the editors draft to the list
21:14:07 [alejandra]
q?
21:14:23 [alejandra]
q?
21:14:47 [riccardoAlbertoni]
q+
21:14:52 [alejandra]
ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:15:04 [PWinstanley]
+1 to riccardoAlbertoni
21:15:24 [alejandra]
q?
21:15:26 [PWinstanley]
afaik it is before
21:15:32 [AndreaPerego]
Yes.
21:15:36 [SimonCox]
riccardoAlbertoni: do we need to collect implementation evidence before CR?
21:15:42 [SimonCox]
PWinstanley: yes
21:16:08 [SimonCox]
riccardoAlbertoni: implementation evidence is now a priority then
21:16:10 [alejandra]
q?
21:16:18 [riccardoAlbertoni]
mid march final version
21:16:28 [alejandra]
q?
21:16:28 [AndreaPerego]
Never done myself, but better start soon.
21:16:30 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:16:44 [alejandra]
ack AndreaPerego
21:17:03 [SimonCox]
alejandra: if CR is mid-April, we need a final WD mid-March so we can spend that month working on implementation evidence
21:17:32 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: must start on implementation evidence now
21:17:34 [PWinstanley]
here is the milestones calculator: https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/
21:17:51 [PWinstanley]
For example, to publish the Recommendation on June 27, the latest day to publish the Candidate Recommendation would be April 11: https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?rec=2019-06-27
21:18:16 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: 160 class/property combos - unlikely that we can provide evidence for all of these
21:19:00 [SimonCox]
... classes and properties for which we have no evidence might need to be marked 'non-normative'
21:19:07 [SimonCox]
q+
21:19:18 [alejandra]
q?
21:20:02 [SimonCox]
... but particularly need to provide evidence for the added terms
21:20:04 [alejandra]
+q to ask about evidence for 'abstract' classes
21:20:37 [alejandra]
q?
21:20:56 [alejandra]
q+ to mention about user surveys that PROV did
21:21:23 [SimonCox]
... in some cases we might have to appeal to 'indirect evidence' - particularly around the services structures
21:21:53 [SimonCox]
... GeoDCAT-AP provides evidence for the requirement
21:22:49 [alejandra]
DWBP implementation report: http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/dwbp-implementation-report.html
21:23:33 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1 to collect implementation in order to discover gaps in implementation, and decide if we can provide evidence on our own or drop from the normative part.
21:23:33 [SimonCox]
... DWBP did include some 'forward looking' evidence in a way that was convincing enough to progress to Rec
21:23:46 [SimonCox]
... we should adopt similar approach
21:24:05 [SimonCox]
... all are requested to add material to AndreaPerego spreadsheet
21:24:10 [riccardoAlbertoni]
s/implementation/implementations
21:24:18 [alejandra]
ack SimonCox
21:24:38 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:24:39 [PWinstanley]
SimonCox: I'm not convinced that covering all combos is required
21:24:52 [PWinstanley]
... we didn't do that in the spatial data on the web wg
21:25:42 [PWinstanley]
... Evidence of all combinations is a big challenge, esp where inheritance is involved
21:25:47 [AndreaPerego]
DCAT 2014 implementation report: https://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_Implementations#Summary_of_terms_usage
21:26:52 [alejandra]
q?
21:27:01 [alejandra]
ack alejandra
21:27:01 [Zakim]
alejandra, you wanted to ask about evidence for 'abstract' classes and to mention about user surveys that PROV did
21:27:04 [SimonCox]
... consult with Dave Raggett
21:27:51 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:27:58 [alejandra]
q?
21:28:00 [alejandra]
ack AndreaPerego
21:28:05 [SimonCox]
alejandra: need to be sensible about evidence of 'abstract' classes
21:28:14 [SimonCox]
... shoudl we send out a survey?
21:28:28 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: not enough time for a real survey
21:28:41 [SimonCox]
... need evidence of 2 implementation for each normative elements
21:28:58 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+q
21:29:00 [SimonCox]
... we are already in pretty good shape for much of it
21:29:02 [alejandra]
ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:29:35 [SimonCox]
riccardoAlbertoni: some of the implementations can be from group members
21:29:59 [SimonCox]
alejandra: can riccardoAlbertoni provide some implementations?
21:30:29 [AndreaPerego]
The spreadsheet for collecting implementation evidence is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eEVUuPFAGO2GjS5ocxylY8T1AlpqlwnOTc3er_Mhcv4/edit?usp=sharing
21:30:32 [SimonCox]
riccardoAlbertoni: catalog of thesauri, might be able to upgrade this to fill gaps
21:30:33 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:30:39 [alejandra]
ack AndreaPerego
21:30:59 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: asks riccardoAlbertoni to look at the list and see the gaps
21:31:56 [SimonCox]
... of course these are more glaring for the new elements
21:32:44 [SimonCox]
... risk of misunderstanding of inheritance e.g. Catalog inherits dct:temporal, but few catalogs describe themselves this way
21:33:25 [alejandra]
q?
21:33:29 [SimonCox]
... inheritance of a set of (optional) properties from an abstract class is a useful feature, but implications must be clear
21:33:45 [PWinstanley]
I will get in touch with dsr
21:33:58 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:34:18 [SimonCox]
Action: PWinstanley to contact DSR to verify timeline, and what artefacts are required at each stage
21:34:18 [trackbot]
Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:34:25 [alejandra]
q?
21:34:30 [alejandra]
ack AndreaPerego
21:34:51 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: we should invite DSR to DCAT call?
21:34:53 [SimonCox]
q+
21:35:04 [alejandra]
ack SimonCox
21:35:44 [SimonCox]
PWinstanley: better to get it in writing (first)
21:35:50 [alejandra]
q?
21:35:50 [AndreaPerego]
+1
21:36:00 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+q
21:36:04 [alejandra]
ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:36:44 [SimonCox]
riccardoAlbertoni: also need to ask DSR about references to 3rd Party vocabs in normative parts
21:37:15 [alejandra]
q?
21:37:29 [SimonCox]
... esp. in relation to dependencies on non-normative specs or non-normative parts of normative specs
21:37:43 [SimonCox]
... e.g. DQV, parts of ADMS
21:38:24 [alejandra]
rrsagent, generate minutes v2
21:38:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
21:38:25 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: the key criterion is stablility and an orderly governance process, so they won't disappear unexpectedly
21:39:15 [alejandra]
q?
21:39:20 [SimonCox]
... also cannot be changed arbitrarily. There is lots of normative use of non-normative/informal dependencies.
21:39:45 [alejandra]
q?
21:39:50 [SimonCox]
... this should be done sensibly.
21:39:56 [SimonCox]
q+
21:40:14 [alejandra]
ack SimonCox
21:41:06 [riccardoAlbertoni]
s/stablility/stability
21:41:06 [alejandra]
q?
21:41:09 [PWinstanley]
SimonCox: I raised the matter of references to non-normative things - respec has some rules, and I was tripping over ones relating to the organisation of the bibliography
21:41:55 [alejandra]
q?
21:41:56 [SimonCox]
alejandra: do we need another sprint? e.g. implementation report
21:42:15 [alejandra]
q?
21:42:15 [AndreaPerego]
+1 from me
21:42:17 [PWinstanley]
q+
21:42:20 [SimonCox]
+1 to a spring for the implementation report
21:42:22 [alejandra]
ack PWinstanley
21:42:25 [SimonCox]
s/spring/sprint/
21:43:44 [SimonCox]
topic: outstanding actions
21:43:45 [alejandra]
https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:43:56 [AndreaPerego]
Mine are yet to be done - sorry.
21:44:57 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:44:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:45:44 [SimonCox]
Annette's services proposal - she was requested to provide some worked examples
21:45:47 [alejandra]
q?
21:46:03 [SimonCox]
topic: public comments list
21:46:09 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:46:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:46:31 [SimonCox]
AndreaPerego: to draft response to Luca
21:46:46 [SimonCox]
topic: closing issues
21:46:49 [alejandra]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22due+for+closing%22+label%3A%22dcat%22
21:47:18 [alejandra]
q?
21:47:35 [AndreaPerego]
I think it can be closed.
21:47:40 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+q
21:47:50 [alejandra]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/759
21:47:57 [alejandra]
ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:48:26 [alejandra]
issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/675
21:48:26 [trackbot]
Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:48:48 [alejandra]
proposed close issue https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/675
21:48:51 [AndreaPerego]
+1
21:48:52 [SimonCox]
+1
21:48:54 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:48:57 [alejandra]
+1
21:49:07 [AndreaPerego]
s/proposed /proposed: /
21:49:07 [SimonCox]
resolved: close #675
21:49:13 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:49:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:49:16 [alejandra]
q?
21:50:29 [alejandra]
discussed issue https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/530
21:50:32 [alejandra]
can be closed
21:50:39 [alejandra]
as we replied to Clemens
21:51:22 [alejandra]
q?
21:52:11 [alejandra]
PR: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/746
21:52:29 [AndreaPerego]
scribenick: PWinstanley
21:52:33 [PWinstanley]
alejandra: next point is PR with Makx proposal about packaging & compression. 5 voted for proposal 2
21:52:33 [alejandra]
voting in the issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/746#issuecomment-462699155
21:53:40 [PWinstanley]
Makx: I created 2 properties with definitions and links, I put a line in the change log and included a couple of lines in the Turtle file.
21:54:39 [PWinstanley]
alejandra: I noticed SimonCox had made a change request on the Turtle file, so maybe you did it in a different branch. I added the changes to the turtle file and the change log.
21:55:29 [PWinstanley]
Makx: I made the changes in my branch and pushed upstream, my file has the changes
21:55:39 [alejandra]
Makx's latest changes are in a different branch: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/commit/6e5950888905fa4cce456bce4c767ac7f3ddc061
21:56:18 [alejandra]
two branches: dcat-makx-packaging
21:56:25 [PWinstanley]
alejandra: I will investigate and see how we can merge your change
21:56:34 [alejandra]
and makxdekkers-patch-1
21:56:37 [PWinstanley]
Makx: I made one branch and SimonCox made another
21:56:48 [PWinstanley]
alejandra: I will look at this and sort out
21:57:33 [PWinstanley]
Makx: the definitions in dcat-makx-packaging are what I did today
21:59:40 [alejandra]
proposed: agree on Makx's proposal of adding two properties: dcat:compressFormat and dcat:packageFormat
21:59:43 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
21:59:45 [alejandra]
+1
21:59:46 [PWinstanley]
+1
21:59:46 [AndreaPerego]
0
21:59:46 [Makx]
+1
21:59:47 [AndreaPerego]
q+
21:59:51 [alejandra]
ack AndreaPerego
22:00:10 [PWinstanley]
AndreaPerego: I have no strong opinion on this
22:01:04 [PWinstanley]
... the media type determines if it is compressed or packaged
22:01:06 [PWinstanley]
... the only thought I have is that looking at how people will have to use these properties introduces decisions that they might not be able to make.
22:01:23 [PWinstanley]
... and software is able to behave correctly based on mediatype
22:01:37 [alejandra]
q?
22:01:41 [PWinstanley]
... this is therefore treated transparently by software agents
22:02:03 [PWinstanley]
... additional properties might make this more complicated for people
22:02:20 [alejandra]
q?
22:02:28 [PWinstanley]
alejandra: is a super-prop required? people might just use that
22:02:51 [PWinstanley]
Makx: my initial proposal was for one, but I created two and the vote went for that
22:04:05 [PWinstanley]
alejandra: we need to look at examples; if it is too complex then we can determine if we roll back this decision
22:04:22 [AndreaPerego]
+1
22:04:27 [PWinstanley]
+1
22:04:27 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1 to go ahead
22:04:30 [alejandra]
resolved: agree on Makx's proposal of adding two properties: dcat:compressFormat and dcat:packageFormat
22:04:36 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:04:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:04:59 [AndreaPerego]
Thanks, bye bye!
22:05:03 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:05:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:05:16 [PWinstanley]
rrsagent, create minutes v2
22:05:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html PWinstanley
22:05:28 [PWinstanley]
alejandra: we might organise another sprint, but otherwise, same time next week
22:05:38 [alejandra]
thanks Simon and Peter for scribing!
22:06:09 [AndreaPerego]
meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup telecon
22:06:10 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:06:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:06:28 [PWinstanley]
rrsagent, create minutes v2
22:06:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html PWinstanley