20:47:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
20:47:18 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-irc
20:47:27 <alejandra> rrsagent, make logs public
20:47:29 <alejandra> chair: alejandra
20:48:13 <alejandra> Meeting: DCAT-Telecon2019.02.20
20:48:27 <alejandra> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.02.20
20:49:47 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:49:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:50:03 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:50:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:50:20 <alejandra> rrsagent, make logs public
20:50:25 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:50:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:53:08 <alejandra> regrets+ DaveBrowning
20:53:12 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:53:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:53:24 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley has joined #dxwgdcat
20:57:50 <Makx> Makx has joined #dxwgdcat
20:58:26 <Makx> present+ Makx
20:59:36 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
20:59:40 <AndreaPerego> present+
20:59:43 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
20:59:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
21:04:00 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #dxwgdcat
21:04:06 <PWinstanley> present+
21:04:07 <SimonCox> present+
21:04:42 <SimonCox> scribenick: SimonCox
21:04:48 <SimonCox> scribe: SimonCox
21:04:54 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2019.02.20#Main_agenda
21:04:58 <SimonCox> topic: confirm agenda
21:05:19 <riccardoAlbertoni> riccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwgdcat
21:05:30 <riccardoAlbertoni> present+
21:06:01 <alejandra> q?
21:06:29 <SimonCox> topic: confirm minutes of previous meetings
21:06:42 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/2019/02/05-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:06:43 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2019/02/05-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:06:55 <Makx> +1
21:07:01 <alejandra> +1
21:07:03 <SimonCox> +1
21:07:03 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:07:04 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:07:07 <PWinstanley> +1
21:07:10 <alejandra> ack AndreaPerego
21:07:24 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:07:30 <SimonCox> resolved: 2019-02-05 approved
21:07:35 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2019/02/06-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:07:50 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:07:53 <Makx> 0
21:07:55 <alejandra> +1
21:07:57 <SimonCox> +1
21:08:02 <PWinstanley> +1
21:08:02 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:08:18 <SimonCox> resolved: 2019-02-06 approved
21:08:27 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2019/02/13-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:08:32 <SimonCox> +1
21:08:37 <alejandra> +1
21:08:37 <AndreaPerego> 0 (was not there)
21:08:42 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:08:51 <Makx> +1
21:08:54 <PWinstanley> +1
21:08:57 <SimonCox> resolved: 2019-02-13 approved
21:09:09 <SimonCox> topic: Publication schedule
21:09:11 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:09:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:09:29 <AndreaPerego> present+ alejandra
21:09:31 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:09:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:09:35 <SimonCox> Makx email comment on deadlines
21:10:39 <SimonCox> Sprints are not aligned with work packages for the identified WDs
21:10:39 <alejandra> q?
21:10:57 <SimonCox> ... propose that next WD is the last before CR
21:11:23 <SimonCox> ... though team has decided to focus on sprints and the ED, rather than new formal WD
21:11:40 <SimonCox> ... propose one final WD mid-March
21:11:45 <alejandra> q?
21:11:57 <SimonCox> ... going to CR mid-April
21:12:35 <AndreaPerego> Makx's mail: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2019Feb/0358.html
21:12:45 <SimonCox> alejandra: sprints were explicitly separate from milestones; rather focussed on groups of issues or themes that were important and not being given enough time
21:13:03 <SimonCox> ... team already decided to focus on content.
21:13:03 <SimonCox> q+
21:13:15 <alejandra> q?
21:13:19 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:13:55 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: I think we decided to also, in lieu of more WD, send significant changes to the editors draft to the list
21:14:07 <alejandra> q?
21:14:23 <alejandra> q?
21:14:47 <riccardoAlbertoni> q+
21:14:52 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:15:04 <PWinstanley> +1 to riccardoAlbertoni
21:15:24 <alejandra> q?
21:15:26 <PWinstanley> afaik it is before
21:15:32 <AndreaPerego> Yes.
21:15:36 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: do we need to collect implementation evidence before CR?
21:15:42 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: yes
21:16:08 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: implementation evidence is now a priority then
21:16:10 <alejandra> q?
21:16:18 <riccardoAlbertoni> mid march  final version
21:16:28 <alejandra> q?
21:16:28 <AndreaPerego> Never done myself, but better start soon.
21:16:30 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:16:44 <alejandra> ack AndreaPerego
21:17:03 <SimonCox> alejandra: if CR is mid-April, we need a final WD mid-March so we can spend that month working on implementation evidence
21:17:32 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: must start on implementation evidence now
21:17:34 <PWinstanley> here is the milestones calculator:  https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/
21:17:51 <PWinstanley> For example,  to publish the Recommendation on June 27, the latest day to publish the Candidate Recommendation would be April 11:   https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/?rec=2019-06-27
21:18:16 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: 160 class/property combos - unlikely that we can provide evidence for all of these
21:19:00 <SimonCox> ... classes and properties for which we have no evidence might need to be marked 'non-normative'
21:19:07 <SimonCox> q+
21:19:18 <alejandra> q?
21:20:02 <SimonCox> ... but particularly need to provide evidence for the added terms
21:20:04 <alejandra> +q to ask about evidence for 'abstract' classes
21:20:37 <alejandra> q?
21:20:56 <alejandra> q+ to mention about user surveys that PROV did
21:21:23 <SimonCox> ... in some cases we might have to appeal to 'indirect evidence' - particularly around the services structures
21:21:53 <SimonCox> ... GeoDCAT-AP provides evidence for the requirement
21:22:49 <alejandra> DWBP implementation report: http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/dwbp-implementation-report.html
21:23:33 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to collect implementation in order to discover gaps in implementation, and decide if we can provide evidence on our own or drop from the normative part.
21:23:33 <SimonCox> ... DWBP did include some 'forward looking' evidence in a way that was convincing enough to progress to Rec
21:23:46 <SimonCox> ... we should adopt similar approach
21:24:05 <SimonCox> ... all are requested to add material to AndreaPerego spreadsheet
21:24:10 <riccardoAlbertoni> s/implementation/implementations
21:24:18 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:24:38 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:24:39 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: I'm not convinced that covering all combos is required
21:24:52 <PWinstanley> ... we didn't do that in the spatial data on the web wg
21:25:42 <PWinstanley> ... Evidence of all combinations is a big challenge, esp where inheritance is involved
21:25:47 <AndreaPerego> DCAT 2014 implementation report: https://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/DCAT_Implementations#Summary_of_terms_usage
21:26:52 <alejandra> q?
21:27:01 <alejandra> ack alejandra
21:27:01 <Zakim> alejandra, you wanted to ask about evidence for 'abstract' classes and to mention about user surveys that PROV did
21:27:04 <SimonCox> ... consult with Dave Raggett
21:27:51 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:27:58 <alejandra> q?
21:28:00 <alejandra> ack AndreaPerego
21:28:05 <SimonCox> alejandra: need to be sensible about evidence of 'abstract' classes
21:28:14 <SimonCox> ... shoudl we send out a survey?
21:28:28 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: not enough time for a real survey
21:28:41 <SimonCox> ... need evidence of 2 implementation for each normative elements
21:28:58 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
21:29:00 <SimonCox> ... we are already in pretty good shape for much of it
21:29:02 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:29:35 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: some of the implementations can be from group members
21:29:59 <SimonCox> alejandra: can riccardoAlbertoni provide some implementations?
21:30:29 <AndreaPerego> The spreadsheet for collecting implementation evidence is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eEVUuPFAGO2GjS5ocxylY8T1AlpqlwnOTc3er_Mhcv4/edit?usp=sharing
21:30:32 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: catalog of thesauri, might be able to upgrade this to fill gaps
21:30:33 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:30:39 <alejandra> ack AndreaPerego
21:30:59 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: asks riccardoAlbertoni to look at the list and see the gaps
21:31:56 <SimonCox> ... of course these are more glaring for the new elements
21:32:44 <SimonCox> ... risk of misunderstanding of inheritance e.g. Catalog inherits dct:temporal, but few catalogs describe themselves this way
21:33:25 <alejandra> q?
21:33:29 <SimonCox> ... inheritance of a set of (optional) properties from an abstract class is a useful feature, but implications must be clear
21:33:45 <PWinstanley> I will get in touch with dsr
21:33:58 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:34:18 <SimonCox> Action: PWinstanley to contact DSR to verify timeline, and what artefacts are required at each stage
21:34:18 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:34:25 <alejandra> q?
21:34:30 <alejandra> ack AndreaPerego
21:34:51 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: we should invite DSR to DCAT call?
21:34:53 <SimonCox> q+
21:35:04 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:35:44 <SimonCox> PWinstanley: better to get it in writing (first)
21:35:50 <alejandra> q?
21:35:50 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:36:00 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
21:36:04 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:36:44 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: also need to ask DSR about references to 3rd Party vocabs in normative parts
21:37:15 <alejandra> q?
21:37:29 <SimonCox> ... esp. in relation to dependencies on non-normative specs or non-normative parts of normative specs
21:37:43 <SimonCox> ... e.g. DQV, parts of ADMS
21:38:24 <alejandra> rrsagent, generate minutes v2
21:38:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
21:38:25 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: the key criterion is stablility and an orderly governance process, so they won't disappear unexpectedly
21:39:15 <alejandra> q?
21:39:20 <SimonCox> ... also cannot be changed arbitrarily. There is lots of normative use of non-normative/informal dependencies.
21:39:45 <alejandra> q?
21:39:50 <SimonCox> ... this should be done sensibly.
21:39:56 <SimonCox> q+
21:40:14 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:41:06 <riccardoAlbertoni> s/stablility/stability
21:41:06 <alejandra> q?
21:41:09 <PWinstanley> SimonCox: I raised the matter of references to non-normative things - respec has some rules, and I was tripping over ones relating to the organisation of the bibliography
21:41:55 <alejandra> q?
21:41:56 <SimonCox> alejandra: do we need another sprint? e.g. implementation report
21:42:15 <alejandra> q?
21:42:15 <AndreaPerego> +1 from me
21:42:17 <PWinstanley> q+
21:42:20 <SimonCox> +1 to a spring for the implementation report
21:42:22 <alejandra> ack PWinstanley
21:42:25 <SimonCox> s/spring/sprint/
21:43:44 <SimonCox> topic: outstanding actions
21:43:45 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:43:56 <AndreaPerego> Mine are yet to be done - sorry.
21:44:57 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:44:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:45:44 <SimonCox> Annette's services proposal - she was requested to provide some worked examples
21:45:47 <alejandra> q?
21:46:03 <SimonCox> topic: public comments list
21:46:09 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:46:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:46:31 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: to draft response to Luca
21:46:46 <SimonCox> topic: closing issues
21:46:49 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22due+for+closing%22+label%3A%22dcat%22
21:47:18 <alejandra> q?
21:47:35 <AndreaPerego> I think it can be closed.
21:47:40 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
21:47:50 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/759
21:47:57 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:48:26 <alejandra> issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/675
21:48:26 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:48:48 <alejandra> proposed close issue https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/675
21:48:51 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:48:52 <SimonCox> +1
21:48:54 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:48:57 <alejandra> +1
21:49:07 <AndreaPerego> s/proposed /proposed: /
21:49:07 <SimonCox> resolved: close #675
21:49:13 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:49:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:49:16 <alejandra> q?
21:50:29 <alejandra> discussed issue https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/530
21:50:32 <alejandra> can be closed
21:50:39 <alejandra> as we replied to Clemens
21:51:22 <alejandra> q?
21:52:11 <alejandra> PR: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/746
21:52:29 <AndreaPerego> scribenick: PWinstanley
21:52:33 <PWinstanley> alejandra: next point is PR with Makx proposal about packaging & compression.  5 voted for proposal 2
21:52:33 <alejandra> voting in the issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/746#issuecomment-462699155
21:53:40 <PWinstanley> Makx: I created 2 properties with definitions and links, I put a line in the change log and included a couple of lines in the Turtle file.
21:54:39 <PWinstanley> alejandra: I noticed SimonCox had made a change request on the Turtle file, so maybe you did it in a different branch.  I added the changes to the turtle file and the change log.
21:55:29 <PWinstanley> Makx: I made the changes in my branch and pushed upstream, my file has the changes
21:55:39 <alejandra> Makx's latest changes are in a different branch: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/commit/6e5950888905fa4cce456bce4c767ac7f3ddc061
21:56:18 <alejandra> two branches: dcat-makx-packaging
21:56:25 <PWinstanley> alejandra: I will investigate and see how we can merge your change
21:56:34 <alejandra> and makxdekkers-patch-1
21:56:37 <PWinstanley> Makx: I made one branch and SimonCox made another
21:56:48 <PWinstanley> alejandra: I will look at this and sort out
21:57:33 <PWinstanley> Makx: the definitions in dcat-makx-packaging are what I did today
21:59:40 <alejandra> proposed: agree on Makx's proposal of adding two properties: dcat:compressFormat and dcat:packageFormat
21:59:43 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:59:45 <alejandra> +1
21:59:46 <PWinstanley> +1
21:59:46 <AndreaPerego> 0
21:59:46 <Makx> +1
21:59:47 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:59:51 <alejandra> ack AndreaPerego
22:00:10 <PWinstanley> AndreaPerego: I have no strong opinion on this
22:01:04 <PWinstanley> ... the media type determines if it is compressed or packaged
22:01:06 <PWinstanley> ... the only thought I have is that looking at how people will have to use these properties introduces decisions that they might not be able to make.
22:01:23 <PWinstanley> ... and software is able to behave correctly based on mediatype
22:01:37 <alejandra> q?
22:01:41 <PWinstanley> ... this is therefore treated transparently by software agents
22:02:03 <PWinstanley> ... additional properties might make this more complicated for people
22:02:20 <alejandra> q?
22:02:28 <PWinstanley> alejandra: is a super-prop required?  people might just use that
22:02:51 <PWinstanley> Makx: my initial proposal was for one, but I created two and the vote went for that
22:04:05 <PWinstanley> alejandra: we need to look at examples; if it is too complex then we can determine if we roll back this decision
22:04:22 <AndreaPerego> +1
22:04:27 <PWinstanley> +1
22:04:27 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to go ahead
22:04:30 <alejandra> resolved: agree on Makx's proposal of adding two properties: dcat:compressFormat and dcat:packageFormat
22:04:36 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:04:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:04:59 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, bye bye!
22:05:03 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:05:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:05:16 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
22:05:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html PWinstanley
22:05:28 <PWinstanley> alejandra: we might organise another sprint, but otherwise, same time next week
22:05:38 <alejandra> thanks Simon and Peter for scribing!
22:06:09 <AndreaPerego> meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup telecon
22:06:10 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:06:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:06:28 <PWinstanley> rrsagent, create minutes v2
22:06:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/02/20-dxwgdcat-minutes.html PWinstanley