15:02:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pbgsc
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15:03:04 <dauwhe> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Steering Committee
15:03:17 <dauwhe> Date: 2019-01-25
15:04:23 <dauwhe> chair: Luc Audrain
15:38:13 <ivan> ivan has joined #pbgsc
15:38:30 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:38:30 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee Telco
15:38:30 <ivan> Chair:  luc
15:38:30 <ivan> Date: 2019-01-25
15:38:30 <ivan> Regrets+ Tzviya, George
15:38:30 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2019Jan/0017.htm
15:38:31 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Meeting Agenda 2019-01-25: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2019Jan/0017.htm
15:55:35 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #pbgsc
15:59:18 <ivan> present+
15:59:35 <ivan> present+ karen, luc, wendy, yoshii
15:59:37 <Karen> present+ Karen
15:59:42 <wendyreid> present+
16:00:02 <ivan> present+ dauwhe
16:00:53 <ivan> present+
16:01:31 <jyoshii> present+
16:01:43 <Karen> I can try
16:02:26 <Karen> did you see anything just now?
16:03:04 <ivan> present+ liisa
16:03:24 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbgsc
16:03:29 <Daihei> Daihei has joined #pbgsc
16:03:30 <garth> garth has joined #pbgsc
16:03:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc
16:03:48 <garth> present+ Garth
16:03:52 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
16:04:27 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
16:04:43 <dauwhe> laudrain: we are happy to confirm the nomination of Daihei as co-chair
16:04:48 <Karen> +1
16:04:55 <dauwhe> ... we can work on the organization and goals for the group
16:04:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:05:04 <dauwhe> ... we have a BG call next Tuesday
16:05:11 <dauwhe> Daihei: I am honored to work with all of you
16:05:42 <dauwhe> TOPIC: EPUBCheck
16:05:50 <dauwhe> laudrain: I have the formal report from Avneesh
16:05:58 <dauwhe> ... this is an important milestone
16:06:26 <dauwhe> ... this brings 4.1.1 with several translations, and it's now used by the IDPF validator web site
16:06:39 <dauwhe> ... we need to give an authorization for payment for this milestone
16:06:57 <dauwhe> ... any objections?
16:07:05 <dauwhe> dauwhe: please give them money!
16:07:05 <liisamk> +1 to pay
16:07:09 <garth> +1
16:07:12 <ivan> +1
16:07:13 <wendyreid> +1 give them the money :)
16:07:17 <dauwhe> laudrain: I see no objections. I consider this adopted.
16:07:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
16:07:59 <dauwhe> Resolved: pay the DAISY consortium on scheduled milestone of end of January, as development process is on-time.
16:08:21 <Bill_Kasdorf> kudos to DAISY for being on-time!
16:08:27 <dauwhe> laudrain: there is a question in this discussion
16:08:41 <dauwhe> ... the online validator is still on the idpf domain name
16:08:56 <dauwhe> ... it's been updated silently by romain to use the last stable version, 4.1.1.
16:09:05 <dauwhe> ... but we need to think about how we keep this online
16:09:11 <dauwhe> q+
16:09:20 <dauwhe> ... and can we move it to a w3c domain?
16:09:41 <dauwhe> ... I've also asked romain if he has usage statistics for the validator?
16:10:06 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:10:27 <laudrain> dauwhe: what do we do with IDPF web site ?
16:10:44 <laudrain> … pages on IDPF says 3.1 is the current version
16:10:44 <liisamk> q+
16:10:53 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:11:00 <dauwhe> dauwhe: there's a larger question about the IDPF web presence
16:11:14 <dauwhe> liisamk: yes, we need to figure out what to do
16:11:28 <dauwhe> ... even the wikipedia page about epub is wildly out of date
16:11:33 <dauwhe> ... we should update that
16:11:34 <laudrain> q+
16:11:44 <dauwhe> laudrain: do we need to set up a task force about this?
16:12:29 <dauwhe> dauwhe: I think this is a BG issue, as it is about IDPF as much as it is about EPUB
16:12:34 <dauwhe> laudrain: we will bring to BG
16:12:37 <liisamk> ack laud
16:12:54 <dauwhe> ... there is an alpha of EPUBCheck for EPUB 3.2, so things are going well
16:13:09 <dauwhe> Topic: Events
16:13:22 <dauwhe> laudrain: we talked a while ago about having events at big conferences
16:13:37 <dauwhe> ... I wanted to share with you that there's a digital publishing summit in June in Paris
16:13:38 <ivan> q+
16:14:14 <dauwhe> ... we can talk about standards, EPUB 3.2, epubcheck, etc. I am part of the program committee.
16:14:32 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:14:34 <dauwhe> ivan: you partially answered my question
16:14:46 <Karen>  /me does not see site for 2019
16:14:47 <dauwhe> ... I was looking at this event, but I haven't even found a website
16:14:48 <Daihei> q+
16:14:50 <Karen> https://www.edrlab.org/dpub-summit-2018/
16:14:52 <dauwhe> ... there is no real announcement
16:15:08 <dauwhe> ... or info about doing it jointly with w3c
16:15:18 <laudrain> ack Daihei
16:15:20 <dauwhe> Daihei: I was contacted by Laurent the other day about this
16:15:31 <dauwhe> ... I have solicited the APL to participate
16:15:36 <laudrain> q+
16:15:39 <dauwhe> ... and someone from APL will attend
16:15:51 <dauwhe> ... and Laurent was asking if someone could speak at the conference
16:16:04 <dauwhe> ... and I'm working with APL on finding someone
16:16:09 <dauwhe> ivan: that's great
16:16:28 <dauwhe> laudrain: with Laurent, he shared that the place is settled, inside the French National Library
16:16:38 <dauwhe> ... now we have to populate the program
16:16:45 <dauwhe> ... the first contacts have been started
16:16:53 <Karen> q+
16:17:04 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:17:09 <laudrain> ack Karen
16:17:37 <dauwhe> Karen: for marketing please contact Coralie for any support we might be able to provide
16:18:06 <dauwhe> laudrain: we were asking about what other kinds of events we could have in various places and times
16:18:08 <liisamk> q+
16:18:18 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:18:38 <Bill_Kasdorf> Yes, the Paris summit is June 25-26
16:18:52 <dauwhe> liisamk: Dave or Rachel, do you know if there's any W3C presence at ebookcraft?
16:18:56 <wendyreid> q+
16:18:57 <Bill_Kasdorf> will the epic rant be recorded?
16:19:02 <dauwhe> dauwhe: I will give an epic rant at ebookcraft
16:19:03 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:19:15 <ivan> q+
16:19:18 <dauwhe> wendyreid: I will be presenting on audiobook formats at techforum
16:19:35 <dauwhe> laudrain: what could we think about for Fall? I spoke about Frankfurt
16:19:43 <dauwhe> ... is there something that could be done in Japan around TPAC?
16:19:50 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:20:09 <dauwhe> ivan: Wendy, Dave, or anyone? Can you send information on ebookcraft?
16:20:15 <Daihei> q+
16:20:19 <dauwhe> http://techforum.booknetcanada.ca/ebookcraft/
16:20:46 <dauwhe> ivan: this is partly a BG question, but there are other areas where we are weak
16:20:54 <dauwhe> ... and we might want to think about how to get to those
16:21:02 <dauwhe> ... Bill_Kasdorf is at home in scholarly
16:21:14 <dauwhe> ... I don't know what events there are on Manga etc
16:21:28 <dauwhe> ... and there are other areas which are not traditionally epub-related
16:21:34 <dauwhe> ... I don't know where or what they are
16:21:43 <laudrain> ack daihei
16:21:51 <dauwhe> Daihei: about TPAC in September
16:22:04 <dauwhe> ... there might be a chance, I don't think there's already an event
16:22:22 <dauwhe> ... if it is to be done, it should be organized by APL, but they don't have the budget
16:22:28 <Bill_Kasdorf> I'm speaking at an STM event in Japan in April
16:22:32 <dauwhe> ... I can discuss this with Yoshi-san etc
16:22:38 <dauwhe> ... and can come back to y'all
16:22:48 <laudrain> q?
16:22:49 <dauwhe> q+
16:23:08 <dauwhe> laudrain: re: manga/BD/Comics, there is an event in France today
16:23:30 <dauwhe> ... next year, anything that the CG creates as a prototype would be exposed there
16:23:38 <dauwhe> ... it's end of january
16:23:59 <dauwhe> q?
16:24:19 <dauwhe> laudrain: Bill_Kasdorf, can you take this to the external task force, especially in STEM/scholarly?
16:24:23 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: that's a good idea
16:24:32 <dauwhe> ... I'm speaking at an STEM event in Japan in April
16:24:38 <dauwhe> ... the program for SSP is already closed
16:24:47 <dauwhe> ... same for the university press program in June
16:24:53 <dauwhe> q?
16:25:07 <dauwhe> ... I want to do these separately, because I want to do fundraising too
16:25:12 <dauwhe> q?
16:25:15 <laudrain> ack dauwhe
16:25:15 <liisamk> +1 to bill and 2 communications
16:25:25 <Karen> scribenick: Karen
16:25:37 <Karen> Dauwhe: if we want to think about these events, we need to plan much more in advance
16:25:56 <Karen> ...I have to have my travel budget submitted by now; event programs closed already
16:25:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/STEM/STM
16:26:06 <Karen> Luc: We should think about 2020?
16:26:11 <Karen> Dauwhe: yes
16:26:31 <Karen> ...and focus on our goals; where would we be most effective; bandwidth, where to concentrate our resources
16:26:44 <Karen> ...have some principals beyond doing something in conjunction with this conference
16:26:48 <dauwhe> laudrain: so we should now think about 2020
16:26:51 <Karen> Luc: that is subject for the BG
16:26:52 <dauwhe> ... that's a topic for the BG
16:26:58 <Karen> scibenick: Dauwhe
16:27:10 <Karen> +1 advance planning in BG
16:27:16 <dauwhe> laudrain: any other comments?
16:27:27 <dauwhe> Topic: feedback from the AB meetup in NYC
16:27:46 <dauwhe> liisamk: there were six of our eight publishing co-chairs there
16:27:51 <dauwhe> ... a small group of other pub folks
16:27:56 <dauwhe> ... a good chunk of the AB
16:28:01 <dauwhe> ... Jeff, Ralph, Wendy S
16:28:08 <dauwhe> ... tzviya created an amazing agenda
16:28:14 <dauwhe> ... and taking us from topic to topic
16:28:21 <dauwhe> ... it was an amazing evening
16:28:39 <dauwhe> ... we talked about packaging, and got interesting stuff from dsinger and Kenji B.
16:28:48 <dauwhe> ... it was a really really good dialog and questions
16:29:00 <dauwhe> ... Dave did the background of EPUB, and how it relates to web tech
16:29:14 <laudrain> q+
16:29:17 <dauwhe> ... wendyreid talked about the audio work and moving it forward without settled web packaging
16:29:51 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:29:56 <dauwhe> laudrain: the idea to have some high-level... how could we have high-level goals brought from this meeting, so it could be fuel for the BG
16:29:57 <dauwhe> liisamk: yes
16:29:58 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:30:02 <dauwhe> ... I'll get back tot hat
16:30:04 <dauwhe> ack laudrain
16:30:10 <ivan> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:30:13 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: I'm interested in the feedback from the AB
16:30:33 <dauwhe> liisamk: there was a preso from Robin Berjon who talked about how to work with web developers
16:30:42 <dauwhe> ... treat them like humans, bring examples...
16:30:50 <dauwhe> ... it was depressing because it's so much work
16:31:07 <dauwhe> ... leonie talked about the a11y community's relationship with browsers
16:31:16 <dauwhe> ... and how it took years to do a very small thing
16:31:31 <dauwhe> ... "this web standards stuff takes forever"
16:31:41 <dauwhe> ... tzviya, Rachel, and I talked about the CG/BG/WG
16:31:51 <dauwhe> ... and talked about the struggles of the BG
16:32:08 <dauwhe> ... it's hard to deal with the chicken/egg problem until the horse is out of the barn
16:32:35 <Bill_Kasdorf> or the chickens flew the coop?
16:32:38 <dauwhe> ... we need to get ahead of the curve a bit
16:32:48 <dauwhe> ... and there was a QA between the AB and the publishers
16:32:58 <dauwhe> ... there are issues of resources
16:33:08 <dauwhe> ... we talked about the challenge of (trigger warning) DRM
16:33:32 <dauwhe> ... at the end, Jeff said that this conversation was fantastic, it was way more interesting than our BG/SC meetings
16:33:41 <dauwhe> ... so how do we bring this energy back to the group?
16:34:08 <laudrain> q?
16:34:51 <dauwhe> dauwhe: Jeff mentioned that he understood better the tension between business and technology
16:35:28 <Karen> q+
16:35:31 <dauwhe> laudrain: was there any talk of LCP?
16:35:52 <laudrain> ack Karen
16:35:55 <dauwhe> dauwhe: yes, and I emphasized that some sort of DRM is essential for library ebook lending
16:36:04 <dauwhe> Karen: I know this was an opportunistic meeting
16:36:17 <dauwhe> ... do you see an opportunity for other regional discussions or meetups?
16:36:20 <laudrain> q+
16:36:25 <liisamk> q+
16:36:34 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:36:38 <dauwhe> laudrain: yes, perhaps in europe in paris around the end of june we could have such an event
16:36:47 <ivan> q+
16:36:48 <wendyreid> q+
16:37:03 <ivan> ack liisamk
16:37:04 <dauwhe> Karen: maybe that's the model, and we could also try at tpac
16:37:04 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:37:16 <dauwhe> liisamk: I think we could do more regional meetups and conversations
16:37:23 <Karen> +1 regional meet-ups
16:37:28 <dauwhe> ... I had an interesting conversation with leslie hulse afterwards
16:37:42 <dauwhe> ... the way that w3c works that is still is not comfortable for business people
16:37:47 <dauwhe> ... it's still too technical
16:37:58 <dauwhe> ... she's fascinated by the audio stuff, but doesn't care about packaging
16:38:20 <dauwhe> ... she wants to know about vendors and requirements. she wants to know if it gets there, will it be an easy sell.
16:38:30 <dauwhe> ... we need to do better at helping them understand
16:38:36 <dauwhe> Karen: that's a great point
16:38:40 <laudrain> ack ivan
16:38:51 <dauwhe> ivan: there is also the other direction
16:39:01 <dauwhe> ... how the WG affects the BG
16:39:09 <dauwhe> ... but there needs to be two-way communication
16:39:15 <dauwhe> ... back to the original question
16:39:28 <dauwhe> ... the issue is not meetings with the AB, because they have other goals
16:39:46 <dauwhe> ... the essential point to have regular meeting with the developer community
16:39:58 <dauwhe> ... there is a regular french conf on webdev
16:40:04 <dauwhe> ... and that's where we should have a meeting
16:40:26 <dauwhe> ... we need to reach out to parisweb
16:40:38 <dauwhe> ... that's the relationship that's weak
16:40:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:41:17 <liisamk> q+
16:41:26 <dauwhe> ivan: for example, it's too late now but the big tech conference is in Taipei in 2020, but there's an opportunity with publishers and webtech over there
16:41:30 <laudrain> ack wendyreid
16:41:37 <dauwhe> wendyreid: ivan and i are on the same page
16:41:57 <dauwhe> ... the meetup was productive, but we don't always need the AB
16:42:26 <dauwhe> ... many of us are already attending certain things, we could put on events to reach out to the local publishing community
16:42:39 <dauwhe> ... we get face time with people affected about what we do, and get feedback
16:42:53 <dauwhe> ... like leslie's feedback--I only hear that F2F
16:43:08 <laudrain> q?
16:43:11 <dauwhe> ... we should look at our future events and see what we can do
16:43:18 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:43:19 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: I'm hearing two different things
16:43:40 <dauwhe> ... planning in advance, so we can get on program at conferences is a way of messaging to large groups
16:43:48 <dauwhe> ... but the real value of NY meeting was that it was small
16:44:03 <dauwhe> ... you can do both
16:44:10 <dauwhe> ... the latter can be done at the last minute
16:44:49 <ivan> +1 to Bill_Kasdorf
16:45:01 <dauwhe> ... and independently
16:45:08 <laudrain> q?
16:45:34 <dauwhe> liisamk: wendyreid: I agree we need to do more to have casual events when we are all somewhere
16:45:45 <dauwhe> ... but it's hard to justify travel to meet webdevs
16:45:58 <dauwhe> ... I'm still struggling to get permission to go to TPAC when I'm a chair
16:46:08 <dauwhe> ... going to a web conference is a stretch
16:46:19 <Karen> q+
16:46:20 <laudrain> q?
16:46:22 <dauwhe> ... my 2020 travel budget happens in July of 2019
16:46:24 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:46:37 <laudrain> ack Karen
16:46:39 <dauwhe> Karen: a few practical things
16:46:50 <Daihei> +1 to Liisa
16:47:01 <dauwhe> ... the NYC event did require a lot of effort for logistics and sponsorships
16:47:29 <dauwhe> ... venues cost money. catering costs money.
16:47:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to Karen, yes, even the smaller informal events involve costs and logistics
16:47:43 <dauwhe> ... much has to happen to make these events possible, even on a small scale.
16:47:46 <dauwhe> q?
16:47:54 <dauwhe> laudrain: what are next steps?
16:48:03 <dauwhe> ... a list of 2020 conferences we want to contact?
16:48:12 <dauwhe> ... which task force could have this list?
16:48:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:48:27 <laudrain> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:48:43 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: are we talking about with devs, or with business people in publishing? Or both?
16:48:51 <laudrain> q+
16:48:53 <dauwhe> ... the ab meeting was with publishers
16:49:13 <dauwhe> laudrain: what's interesting for europe is what the AB did with publishers
16:49:14 <liisamk> q+
16:49:20 <laudrain> ack laudrain
16:49:30 <laudrain> ack liisamk
16:49:52 <dauwhe> liisamk: if we take a step back and think of what made it interesting, maybe we can figure out how to repeat it.
16:50:16 <dauwhe> ... there was interest because it was publishers and the AB, but maybe it was the questions that made it interesting
16:50:48 <dauwhe> ... I see the next steps on conferences... we have started a list of conferences. We can start thinking about next year.
16:50:57 <laudrain> q?
16:51:26 <dauwhe> laudrain: two other topics... update from W3M about TPI
16:51:44 <dauwhe> Topic: TPI
16:51:49 <dauwhe> Karen: I'm going through it fast
16:51:56 <dauwhe> ... this is a work in progress
16:52:33 <dauwhe> ... (shows slides)
16:52:47 <dauwhe> ... TPI was a special membership category to transition IDPF members to W3C for two years
16:52:55 <dauwhe> ... offered to IDPF members
16:53:03 <dauwhe> ... 44 signed up
16:53:17 <dauwhe> ... last fall we had a campaign to get members to continue
16:53:53 <dauwhe> ... we've also sent change-of-status emails to the various groups--those terminated, those transitioning to BG, and those becoming full members
16:54:02 <dauwhe> ... and we'll send something to the public-publishing list
16:54:29 <dauwhe> ... (shows TPI termination list), 25 did not continue
16:55:19 <dauwhe> ... we had seven convert to business group members
16:55:37 <dauwhe> ... we had eight convert to full membership, and one is pending
16:55:50 <dauwhe> ... with good support from japan
16:56:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> congratulations on getting the U-M Libraries as a full member!
16:56:06 <dauwhe> ... and we have a list of BG participants... 36 right now
16:56:41 <dauwhe> ... and there are some participants who are not in good standing right now
16:57:30 <dauwhe> ... and then there are ~50 w3c members engaged in the PWG etc
16:57:42 <liisamk> q+
16:57:45 <laudrain> topicq?
16:57:47 <dauwhe> laudrain: thanks very much
16:57:53 <Bill_Kasdorf> Karen can you share that deck?
16:57:56 <dauwhe> liisamk: could you share that with us?
16:58:02 <garth> Q=
16:58:05 <garth> q+
16:58:08 <dauwhe> Karen: I think so; I need permission from Jeff and Ralph
16:58:19 <laudrain> ack garth
16:58:32 <dauwhe> garth: quick question for karen, looking at the full members etc
16:58:42 <dauwhe> ... is that good? how does this fit with expectations
17:00:02 <laudrain> q?
17:00:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
17:00:19 <laudrain> ack liisamk
17:00:50 <dauwhe> liisamk: I was asked not to ask about money on wednesday
17:01:07 <dauwhe> ... but we need to have that conversation sometimes
17:01:27 <dauwhe> ... membership is based on overall business, even though EPUB and audio are a small part of our business
17:01:36 <laudrain> +1
17:01:52 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: the list of orgs involved in publishing--that should be more broadly communicated
17:02:06 <dauwhe> ... there are lots of organizations that are participating.
17:02:14 <dauwhe> Karen: I can update the logo slide
17:02:26 <dauwhe> ... that is a great sales tool
17:02:37 <dauwhe> laudrain: we are at the top of the hour. thanks everyone
17:02:54 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/25-pbgsc-minutes.html ivan