IRC log of profgui on 2019-01-23
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 20:03:02 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #profgui
- 20:03:02 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-profgui-irc
- 20:03:10 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #profgui
- 20:03:37 [ncar]
- @alejandra: do you need connection details?
- 20:03:56 [roba]
- * present+
- 20:03:59 [PWinstanley]
- https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:ProfGui-Telecon2019.01.23
- 20:04:48 [ncar]
- present+
- 20:04:49 [alejandra]
- present+
- 20:05:18 [roba]
- present+
- 20:05:54 [PWinstanley]
- present+
- 20:06:21 [PWinstanley]
- rrsagent, create minutes v2
- 20:06:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-profgui-minutes.html PWinstanley
- 20:06:27 [alejandra]
- scribenick: alejandra
- 20:06:45 [alejandra]
- topic: action items
- 20:06:55 [alejandra]
- s/topic: action items/
- 20:07:04 [alejandra]
- topic: minutes from last meeting
- 20:07:12 [alejandra]
- rrsagent, create minutes v2
- 20:07:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-profgui-minutes.html alejandra
- 20:07:18 [PWinstanley]
- https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:ProfGui-Telecon2019.01.09
- 20:08:33 [ncar]
- https://www.w3.org/2019/01/09-profgui-minutes.html
- 20:08:53 [alejandra]
- +0 (not present)
- 20:09:14 [alejandra]
- proposed: accept minutes from last meeting
- 20:09:17 [ncar]
- +1
- 20:09:19 [roba]
- +1
- 20:09:19 [PWinstanley]
- +1
- 20:09:19 [alejandra]
- +0 (not present)
- 20:09:22 [kcoyle]
- +1
- 20:09:32 [alejandra]
- resolved: accept minutes from last meeting
- 20:09:54 [alejandra]
- regrets+ Antoine
- 20:09:57 [alejandra]
- topic: action items
- 20:10:14 [PWinstanley]
- rrsagent, create minutes v2
- 20:10:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-profgui-minutes.html PWinstanley
- 20:10:19 [ncar]
- https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/products/3
- 20:11:00 [alejandra]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 20:11:28 [roba]
- synbcing UCR and profgui requitrements
- 20:11:31 [alejandra]
- ncar: action item 272 - analyse profile requirements against the guideline
- 20:11:39 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: I think we can close that one
- 20:11:46 [alejandra]
- ... moving the requirements into the UCR did it
- 20:11:51 [roba]
- +1
- 20:11:53 [alejandra]
- ncar: ok, let's close it
- 20:12:04 [alejandra]
- rrsagent, create minutes v2
- 20:12:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-profgui-minutes.html alejandra
- 20:12:07 [ncar]
- close action-272
- 20:12:07 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 20:12:15 [ncar]
- close: action-272
- 20:12:17 [alejandra]
- chair: ncar
- 20:12:51 [PWinstanley]
- meeting: ProfGui Subgroup
- 20:12:51 [alejandra]
- topic: ESWC paper review
- 20:12:57 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 20:13:24 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: we have to make the reviews public
- 20:13:31 [alejandra]
- ... even if copied from somewhere
- 20:13:35 [roba]
- q+
- 20:13:37 [alejandra]
- ncar: yes, we are ready for that
- 20:13:47 [alejandra]
- ... we've got 4 reviews, we've got the in a document
- 20:13:56 [alejandra]
- ... we're tidying them up
- 20:14:05 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: the paper is about the profiles ontology?
- 20:14:14 [alejandra]
- ... and this is the profile guidance group
- 20:14:24 [alejandra]
- ... maybe there is subset that relates to profile guidance
- 20:14:37 [alejandra]
- ncar: we've got a couple of comments about background and information
- 20:14:57 [alejandra]
- ... we want to indicate what belongs to the ontology and what we think belongs to the guidance document
- 20:15:30 [alejandra]
- ... we don't have to spend this meeting to discuss the comments fully
- 20:15:47 [alejandra]
- roba: we need to outline the guidelines ; are the comments confidential?
- 20:16:04 [alejandra]
- ... feedback is related to the paper and is less important to the substance of the ontology
- 20:16:13 [PWinstanley]
- q+
- 20:16:20 [alejandra]
- ... and I think the feedback is mainly about the paper rather than the ontology
- 20:16:44 [alejandra]
- ncar: yes, I read through the comments again and the majority are about the paper itself
- 20:16:57 [alejandra]
- ... maybe two comments about the ontology
- 20:17:27 [alejandra]
- ... the reviews are open reviews
- 20:17:44 [alejandra]
- +q to say that the reviews are published at notification time
- 20:17:58 [alejandra]
- ... we can include them in the public comments list
- 20:18:03 [ncar]
- q?
- 20:18:10 [roba]
- ok cite them and reflect in the substantive matters
- 20:18:20 [ncar]
- ack kcoyle
- 20:18:24 [ncar]
- ack roba
- 20:18:41 [roba]
- ack PWinstanley
- 20:18:48 [alejandra]
- PWinstanley: three things: 1- I haven't seen this paper and I'd like to if possible
- 20:19:11 [alejandra]
- ... 2- are there things in the paper that would help us complete this document ?
- 20:19:41 [alejandra]
- ... 3- in the plenary, we were talking about doing the sprints and this is one of the areas that seriously needs a sprint and wanted to make sure that we discuss that today
- 20:19:47 [kcoyle]
- +1
- 20:19:53 [roba]
- re 2 - as ncar said it gives us some insight into guidance needs
- 20:20:02 [alejandra]
- ncar: it is a sideshow w.r.t. the profile guidance document
- 20:20:15 [ncar]
- ack PWinstanley
- 20:20:25 [alejandra]
- PWinstanley: there is a big difference between writing a paper for a meeting and getting the guidance thing pushed ahead
- 20:20:29 [alejandra]
- ... we need to move on
- 20:20:30 [ncar]
- q?
- 20:20:39 [ncar]
- ack alejandra
- 20:20:39 [Zakim]
- alejandra, you wanted to say that the reviews are published at notification time
- 20:20:54 [alejandra]
- alejandra: reviews will be public when notifications are out
- 20:21:17 [alejandra]
- ncar: there is a small number of comments related to the profile guidance, so we will refer to the reviews in the comments list
- 20:21:55 [alejandra]
- ncar: I'll send the paper to PWinstanley after this meeting
- 20:21:58 [roba]
- q+
- 20:22:06 [ncar]
- ack roba
- 20:22:13 [alejandra]
- ... we could organise a workshop
- 20:22:30 [alejandra]
- roba: the milestone for the prof guidance FPWD is broadly discussed
- 20:22:42 [alejandra]
- ... we need a couple of specific milestones and discuss when those can be done
- 20:22:57 [alejandra]
- ... identifying things in the UCR is important
- 20:23:07 [alejandra]
- ... things to discuss
- 20:23:33 [alejandra]
- ... there are lots of issues that are controversial or complicated because we have to cite evidence
- 20:23:37 [ncar]
- topic: plans for Prof Guidance workshop
- 20:23:59 [alejandra]
- ... a milestone that is the requirements and the mapping to conneg
- 20:24:10 [alejandra]
- ... would be a substantial initial piece
- 20:24:22 [alejandra]
- ... and it is a different milestone to what is currently described
- 20:24:34 [alejandra]
- ncar: was that milestone produced a long time ago?
- 20:24:39 [alejandra]
- roba: yes
- 20:24:57 [roba]
- "A definition of what is meant by an application profile and an explanation of one or more methods for publishing and sharing them."
- 20:25:05 [alejandra]
- ncar: having a mini-workshop asap, could this be item number 1 of that workshop?
- 20:25:22 [ncar]
- q?
- 20:25:38 [alejandra]
- ncar: comments on that proposal?
- 20:25:54 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: since we do have conneg and ontology in progress, it would make sense to integrate them into this document
- 20:26:04 [alejandra]
- ... it will leave a whole bunch that isn't covered
- 20:26:11 [PWinstanley]
- q+
- 20:26:12 [alejandra]
- ... but there is no reason not to include them
- 20:26:20 [alejandra]
- ... and will help us to see what is remaining
- 20:26:28 [ncar]
- ack PWinstanley
- 20:26:30 [alejandra]
- PWinstanley: we need to sort out this definition
- 20:26:34 [roba]
- we can choose a second milestone for FPWD
- 20:26:44 [alejandra]
- ... the discussion is still going, e.g. with base specification
- 20:27:00 [roba]
- -1 for changing the defintion - it would without defining BaseSpecification as a class
- 20:27:23 [alejandra]
- ncar: we don't have any substantial discussion about the ontology
- 20:27:27 [roba]
- s/would/works/
- 20:27:34 [alejandra]
- ... the discussion about base specification has been resolved
- 20:27:41 [kcoyle]
- which document are you speaking about?
- 20:27:43 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 20:27:43 [roba]
- its a change to the ontology - but not the definiton
- 20:27:58 [ncar]
- ack kcoyle
- 20:28:01 [roba]
- definition is common to all documents (please!)
- 20:28:07 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: what document are you referring to? the ontology document?
- 20:28:14 [alejandra]
- ... that is not what PWinstanley is talking about
- 20:28:24 [alejandra]
- ... he is talking about the profgui document
- 20:28:27 [roba]
- q+
- 20:28:28 [alejandra]
- PWinstanley: exactly
- 20:28:33 [PWinstanley]
- https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/profiles/
- 20:29:01 [alejandra]
- PWinstanley: we had Annette, me, Antoine, we've been doing different versions of it and we need to move on from that
- 20:29:20 [alejandra]
- ... and come back to the introduction and the abstract after the sections and subsections have been completed
- 20:29:38 [alejandra]
- ... the definition will be more clear after that
- 20:30:06 [alejandra]
- ncar: the proposal at the moment is to do away with the phrase base specification
- 20:30:14 [ncar]
- ack roba
- 20:30:27 [alejandra]
- ... when we complete this action, we can think of the use of base spec in the guidance doc
- 20:30:44 [alejandra]
- roba: the definition that we agreed that would be common to all documents is still fine
- 20:30:49 [alejandra]
- ... base spec defines a role
- 20:31:03 [alejandra]
- ... and the change in the ontology is independent
- 20:31:13 [alejandra]
- ... still seems to meet the requirements in the UCR
- 20:31:21 [alejandra]
- ... if we have evidence of something that breaks it, fine
- 20:31:41 [alejandra]
- ... if we need to clarify saying that base spec is whatever the standard is referring to
- 20:31:57 [alejandra]
- ... we can write a piece of text extending the explanation
- 20:32:00 [PWinstanley]
- +1 to roba suggesting we move on
- 20:32:10 [alejandra]
- ... but I'm reluctant on changing the definition
- 20:32:20 [alejandra]
- ncar: shall we define what to do in a workshop?
- 20:32:26 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 20:32:28 [alejandra]
- ... and then see when this could happen
- 20:32:41 [ncar]
- ack kcoyle
- 20:33:26 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: the key thing is not whether or when we will have it, but how
- 20:33:29 [alejandra]
- ... let's define actions
- 20:33:49 [roba]
- ok next week
- 20:33:51 [kcoyle]
- +1
- 20:33:52 [alejandra]
- ncar: are people on this call available on the first 3 days of next week for instance?
- 20:34:01 [alejandra]
- yes, in principle
- 20:34:19 [roba]
- * prefer not within 12am-6am window :-)
- 20:35:02 [roba]
- q+ to talk about duration
- 20:35:04 [alejandra]
- ncar: not easy to find a time slot with a mix of North America / Europe / Australia
- 20:35:12 [ncar]
- ack roba
- 20:35:12 [Zakim]
- roba, you wanted to talk about duration
- 20:35:23 [alejandra]
- roba: we talked about 3 hours sprints
- 20:35:43 [alejandra]
- ... we can make substantive comments in 1 1/2 h
- 20:35:54 [alejandra]
- ... if we know what we are doing
- 20:35:58 [alejandra]
- +1 to roba
- 20:36:13 [alejandra]
- ncar: suggestion is to propose a series of times
- 20:36:46 [alejandra]
- action ncar to send out doodle poll
- 20:36:46 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 20:37:05 [alejandra]
- ncar: so, as discussed, let's come up with an agenda
- 20:37:23 [alejandra]
- ... we had some discussion about base spec, and roba mention about triaging the issues
- 20:37:29 [roba]
- q+
- 20:37:32 [PWinstanley]
- q+
- 20:37:33 [alejandra]
- ... can someone else suggest more topics?
- 20:37:34 [ncar]
- ack roba
- 20:37:52 [alejandra]
- roba: one of the things we want to do is come up with a standard wording when referring to other documents
- 20:38:02 [ncar]
- ack PWinstanley
- 20:38:06 [alejandra]
- ... this is probably a little bit tricky but it's something we need to prioritise
- 20:38:25 [alejandra]
- PWinstanley: going to the documents, it's completely scattered with pink boxes relating to the issues
- 20:38:35 [alejandra]
- ... and going to the google doc and things like that
- 20:38:57 [alejandra]
- ... going all the way through sections 2.1 and 2.6 and replacing the pink boxes
- 20:39:05 [roba]
- +1 for removing all google docs and putting in even placeholder text
- 20:39:10 [alejandra]
- ... would be helpful
- 20:39:24 [kcoyle]
- +1 to writing - we need some writing
- 20:39:38 [alejandra]
- PWinstanley: I see these meetings being collaborative writing of text rather than discussing something and going away to write it
- 20:39:44 [alejandra]
- ... maybe we can work on a google doc
- 20:39:53 [roba]
- +1 collaborative writing. We could use a google doc as long as we transcribe when agreement made in the meting
- 20:40:03 [ncar]
- +1 to above
- 20:40:16 [alejandra]
- ... we can move quickly through the red boxes and replace them with some proper narrative
- 20:40:20 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 20:40:33 [alejandra]
- +1 to collaborative writing
- 20:40:55 [ncar]
- ack kcoyle
- 20:40:59 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: I'd drop the base specification one
- 20:41:08 [alejandra]
- ... we agreed that we're going to leave it until we have more
- 20:41:21 [alejandra]
- ... there are some issues that we have, where we have quite a bit written
- 20:41:40 [alejandra]
- ... my question is: should we go ahead and put those in here or should we look at the issues first?
- 20:41:51 [roba]
- i think triage that issues are referenced
- 20:42:04 [alejandra]
- ncar: if we took the google doc, why don't we say that people will find the summary of the issues and put them in the google doc?
- 20:42:11 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: we kind of have them on this document
- 20:42:32 [alejandra]
- ncar: we need to include what we have in the document
- 20:42:34 [roba]
- i think use google doc only during meetings and dont allow it to persist...
- 20:42:42 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: someone has done a google doc to respec translate
- 20:42:46 [roba]
- q+
- 20:43:04 [alejandra]
- ... we can get this structure as something we can write into without having to go through github
- 20:43:32 [alejandra]
- ncar: if we are only addressing a subset of the document, I can include it into a google doc and then put it back
- 20:43:32 [ncar]
- ack roba
- 20:43:56 [alejandra]
- roba: my view is that google doc is great for collaborative writing and terrible for persistence and tracking changes
- 20:44:08 [alejandra]
- ... so we can use a google doc for collaborative writing and then move it to github
- 20:44:12 [PWinstanley]
- +1 to the mixed approach roba suggests
- 20:44:24 [ncar]
- +1 to approach
- 20:44:31 [alejandra]
- ... the google doc should be thrown away
- 20:44:35 [alejandra]
- ... after a session
- 20:45:33 [alejandra]
- ncar: happy to treat this as set up and tear down thing
- 20:45:57 [alejandra]
- ... prepare google doc before the workshop and transfer it over after the workshop
- 20:46:23 [alejandra]
- roba: we could do it as we go along, rather than leave it to transcribe at the end
- 20:46:27 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 20:46:47 [ncar]
- ack kcoyle
- 20:46:52 [alejandra]
- ncar: we have a couple of topics that would be suitable for a couple of sections
- 20:47:17 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: either ncar or roba feel that they can fill the conneg work and profile ontology work between now and then?
- 20:47:20 [roba]
- ok - i will do a triage for the ontology references
- 20:47:21 [alejandra]
- ncar: I think that's possible
- 20:47:54 [alejandra]
- ... the semi-urgent things we need to deal are some responses related to the paper on the ontology
- 20:48:00 [alejandra]
- ... but no other thing too urgent
- 20:48:00 [PWinstanley]
- rrsagent, create minutes v2
- 20:48:00 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-profgui-minutes.html PWinstanley
- 20:48:10 [alejandra]
- ... so I think that's possible
- 20:48:25 [roba]
- q+
- 20:48:30 [ncar]
- ack roba
- 20:48:32 [alejandra]
- action ncar address as many issues for conneg and profile ontology doc before guidance workshop
- 20:48:32 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 20:48:51 [alejandra]
- s/action ncar address as many issues for conneg and profile ontology doc before guidance workshop/
- 20:49:25 [alejandra]
- action ncar address as many issues for conneg before guidance workshop
- 20:49:25 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 20:49:36 [alejandra]
- action roba address as many issues for profiles ontology before guidance workshop
- 20:49:36 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 20:49:44 [alejandra]
- rrsagent, create minutes v2
- 20:49:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-profgui-minutes.html alejandra
- 20:50:20 [ncar]
- summarising suggested agenda for workshop: 1. Create a referal wording for Guidance doc to other Profile docs, 2. Triage Issues - handoff to other docs, 3. Issues in Sections 2.1 - 2.6
- 20:50:25 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 20:50:31 [ncar]
- ack kcoyle
- 20:50:47 [alejandra]
- kcoyle: could the issue about how to link from one to the other become a github issue?
- 20:51:01 [alejandra]
- ... this would leave more time for us to write
- 20:51:05 [alejandra]
- roba: yes
- 20:51:08 [alejandra]
- ncar: ok
- 20:51:12 [roba]
- proposed: rewrite FWPD milestone to be "Have all requirements in UCR represented and cross referenced, and addressed with a cross reference, agreed text or an open issue"
- 20:51:35 [roba]
- "Have all requirements in UCR represented and addressed with a cross reference, agreed text or an open issue"
- 20:51:54 [roba]
- q+
- 20:52:33 [roba]
- proposed: rewrite FWPD milestone as "Have all requirements in UCR represented and addressed with a cross reference, agreed text or an open issue"
- 20:52:43 [ncar]
- summarising suggested agenda for workshop: 1. Review outcome from an Issue discussiong doc referal text, 2. Triage Issues - handoff to other docs, 3. Issues in Sections 2.1 - 2.6
- 20:52:47 [ncar]
- ack roba
- 20:53:25 [alejandra]
- proposed: rewrite FWPD milestone as "Have all requirements in UCR represented and addressed with a cross reference, agreed text or an open issue"
- 20:53:25 [kcoyle]
- q+
- 20:53:36 [ncar]
- topic: reform Milestone for Guidance doc
- 20:53:39 [alejandra]
- proposed: rewrite FWPD milestone as "Have all requirements in UCR represented and addressed with a cross reference, agreed text or an open issue"
- 20:53:50 [ncar]
- ack kcoyle
- 20:54:08 [alejandra]
- action ncar to create the google doc
- 20:54:08 [trackbot]
- Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
- 20:54:51 [roba]
- +1
- 20:54:52 [ncar]
- +1
- 20:54:52 [kcoyle]
- +1 to milestone
- 20:54:59 [alejandra]
- +1
- 20:55:12 [PWinstanley]
- +1
- 20:55:23 [alejandra]
- resolved: rewrite FWPD milestone as "Have all requirements in UCR represented and addressed with a cross reference, agreed text or an open issue"
- 20:55:44 [kcoyle]
- rrsagent, create minutes v2
- 20:55:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/01/23-profgui-minutes.html kcoyle
- 20:58:02 [PWinstanley]
- PWinstanley has left #profgui