20:57:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
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20:57:52 <alejandra> rrsagent: make logs public
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20:58:17 <alejandra> chair: alejandra
20:59:10 <alejandra> regrets+ Andrea Perego, Makx
20:59:11 <riccardoAlbertoni> riccardoAlbertoni has joined #dxwgdcat
20:59:25 <alejandra>  rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:59:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/19-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
20:59:32 <alejandra> rrsagent, create minutes v2
20:59:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/19-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
21:00:30 <alejandra> Meeting: DCAT-Telecon2018.12.19
21:01:25 <alejandra> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.12.19
21:02:37 <alejandra> rrsagent, create minutes v2
21:02:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/19-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
21:03:35 <DaveBrowning> present+
21:03:38 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #dxwgdcat
21:03:59 <riccardoAlbertoni> present+
21:04:12 <SimonCox> present+
21:04:18 <SimonCox> scribe: SimonCox
21:04:20 <alejandra> topic: Confirm agenda
21:04:26 <SimonCox> scribenick: SimonCox
21:04:28 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.12.19
21:04:47 <DaveBrowning> meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup teleconference 19 December 2018 21:00 UTC
21:05:27 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, create minutes v2
21:05:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/19-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
21:05:28 <SimonCox> resolved: agenda confirmed (noting that dataset relations and versioning on milestone
21:05:35 <alejandra> topic: Approve minutes from last meeting
21:05:36 <SimonCox> topic: confirm minutes
21:05:42 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/2018/12/12-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:05:52 <alejandra> +1
21:05:59 <SimonCox> 0 not present
21:06:00 <DaveBrowning> +1
21:06:00 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:06:13 <SimonCox> resolved: minutes confirmed
21:06:26 <SimonCox> topic: open actions
21:06:46 <DaveBrowning> q+
21:06:53 <alejandra> ack DaveBrowning
21:06:53 <riccardoAlbertoni> https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/track/actions/open
21:06:57 <SimonCox> present+
21:07:32 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: some overlap with GH issues
21:07:44 <SimonCox> ... some tidying up possible
21:08:08 <SimonCox> Action: DaveBrowning to mark actions closed where possible
21:08:08 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:09:06 <alejandra> q?
21:09:09 <SimonCox> actions outstanding - responses to Clemens and Luca
21:09:23 <SimonCox> q+
21:09:35 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:10:47 <alejandra> SimonCox: I was planning to reply along the lines that catalogues of services was a requirement
21:11:02 <alejandra> ... and that there are existing catalogues of services that need to be formalised
21:11:10 <alejandra> ... yes, this requires an extension of scope for DCAT
21:11:33 <DaveBrowning> q+
21:11:49 <alejandra> ... but we aren't being original, we are formalising and standardising what is being used
21:11:51 <alejandra> ack DaveBrowning
21:12:00 <SimonCox> SimonCox: to work on draft today ... share with editors
21:12:02 <alejandra> alejandra: in agreement
21:12:58 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: is concerned about interactions between services, distributions and services
21:13:16 <SimonCox> ... we have not solved all the problems - some challenges ahead
21:13:18 <SimonCox> q+
21:13:20 <alejandra> q?
21:13:55 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: partly motivated by conersations in Refinitiv
21:14:09 <SimonCox> ... versions of services, extracts of distributions
21:14:31 <SimonCox> alejandra: please describe issues and add to GH asap
21:14:57 <alejandra> I think the issues already exist
21:15:02 <alejandra> q?
21:15:05 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:15:36 <alejandra> SimonCox: I hear what you're saying, I suspect that the problem is more with the notion of versioning rather than the infrastructure to describe services
21:15:55 <alejandra> ... yes, there will be interactions, there is a need to formalise versioning
21:16:06 <alejandra> ... my concern is not to let the tail wag the dog
21:16:16 <alejandra> ... for many applications, versioning would be a minor concern
21:16:20 <DaveBrowning> +1 to Simon's perspective
21:16:28 <alejandra> ... we shouldn't get suck down to that vortex
21:16:39 <alejandra> ... with the services we have described what has already been done
21:17:04 <alejandra> q?
21:17:11 <SimonCox> s/services/treatment of services/
21:17:28 <alejandra> Luca's comment: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-comments/2018Dec/0000.html
21:17:32 <SimonCox> moving on to Luca's latest comment
21:17:50 <SimonCox> alejandra: ANdrea has proposed part of reply
21:18:19 <riccardoAlbertoni> q+
21:18:19 <alejandra> q?
21:18:28 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:18:29 <SimonCox> ... EPOS-DCAT-AP many more types are catlaogued. Is this OK for DCAT scope - what subclasses of dcat:Resource should be considered?
21:18:54 <SimonCox> s/catlaogued/catalogued/
21:18:58 <alejandra> +q
21:19:00 <PWinstanley> s/catlaogued/catalogued/
21:19:09 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: in Open World anyone can sub-class dcat:Resource!
21:19:28 <SimonCox> ... but am concerned about overextending scope of DCAT
21:19:37 <PWinstanley> s/ANdrea/Andrea/
21:19:39 <SimonCox> ... we should provide some examples and guidance
21:19:43 <alejandra> q?
21:19:49 <SimonCox> ... noting that it is not a closed-world
21:19:51 <alejandra> ack alejandra
21:20:23 <SimonCox> alejandra: DCAT scope is fixed by requirements. We have nothing to say about extension of scope beyind that
21:20:28 <alejandra> q?
21:20:39 <SimonCox> s/beyind/beyond/
21:21:02 <SimonCox> alejandra: luca's 2nd point - composition of resources
21:21:12 <SimonCox> ... related to hasPart issues already on our list
21:21:26 <SimonCox> ... hasPart also relates to equipment
21:21:43 <alejandra> q?
21:21:50 <SimonCox> ... so does hasPart apply to dcat:Resource? (and not just dcat:Dataset)
21:21:52 <SimonCox> q+
21:21:57 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:22:13 <alejandra> SimonCox: when we refactored the model to create the 'abstract' superclass dcat:Resource
21:22:29 <alejandra> ... the choice of promoting properties to dcat:Resource
21:22:42 <alejandra> ... was done according to the properties existing at the time
21:23:20 <SimonCox> we should promote other properties to dcat:Resource if now requirements come to light
21:23:35 <alejandra> q?
21:24:04 <alejandra> from Andrea's email: "About the "project context", Luca confirmed they have requirements here (but he just provided an example), and it may be worth asking him to verify whether they are or not covered by our use cases and, if not, to complement them."
21:24:20 <alejandra> alejandra: we still have issues related to this, e.g. related to Simon's project ontology
21:24:50 <SimonCox> alejandra: prioritize outstanding issues based on external feedback?
21:25:12 <alejandra> q?
21:25:20 <SimonCox> ... luca's final comment on Hydra - we should add an example based on this?
21:25:54 <alejandra> references to Hydra services: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/530
21:26:06 <SimonCox> ... is already mentioned in #530
21:26:06 <PWinstanley> https://www.hydra-cg.com/spec/latest/core/
21:26:32 <SimonCox> Action: create GH issue to create Hydra example
21:26:32 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:26:56 <PWinstanley> isn't this dealt with by OWA?
21:26:57 <alejandra> q?
21:27:06 <SimonCox> alejandra: Andrea had open action to respond
21:27:10 <SimonCox> ... to Luca
21:27:12 <PWinstanley> do we need to have examples from every API spec?
21:27:33 <alejandra> q?
21:27:36 <SimonCox> q+
21:27:42 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:27:45 <PWinstanley> so why add Hydra, specifically?
21:28:07 <alejandra> SimonCox: since we've moved all but the skeleton examples to an annex, I don't see a risk in adding as many examples as people are willing to do
21:28:08 <PWinstanley> ok, good point SimonCox
21:28:15 <alejandra> ... just a matter of obtaining them
21:28:20 <alejandra> +q
21:28:23 <PWinstanley> it is the latter
21:28:27 <PWinstanley> OK !
21:28:30 <PWinstanley> +1
21:28:45 <alejandra> ack alejandra
21:29:08 <alejandra> alejandra: potentially to be included in the primer
21:29:15 <alejandra> SimonCox: also in the repository
21:29:17 <SimonCox> also in GH repository
21:29:37 <alejandra> q?
21:29:54 <SimonCox> Action: Andrea to respond to Luca
21:29:54 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:30:08 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestone/14
21:30:12 <SimonCox> topic: milestone 3
21:30:34 <SimonCox> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestone/14
21:31:08 <SimonCox> 1. Riccardo's PR - on identifiers https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/614
21:31:15 <SimonCox> can be closed
21:31:18 <alejandra> Riccardo's PR can close two issues: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/53
21:31:32 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/68
21:31:50 <SimonCox> alejandra: still has some ideas on alternative identifiers -
21:32:09 <SimonCox> ... has not added them to issue :-(
21:32:36 <SimonCox> ... yes, identifier patterns could/should be documented in Application Profiles
21:32:37 <alejandra> suggest keep this issue open: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/67
21:32:42 <PWinstanley> present+
21:32:48 <alejandra> q?
21:32:48 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
21:32:53 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:33:01 <SimonCox> ... and then discuss alejandra's proposals later
21:33:17 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: thinks issues can be closed
21:33:50 <alejandra> q?
21:34:18 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: thinks Makx concerns about 'primary' 'secondary' etc belongs in an AP
21:34:44 <SimonCox> alejandra: but there is no guidance currently on how to express this
21:34:52 <alejandra> q?
21:35:15 <SimonCox> alejandra: merge PR 614, close #53, #68
21:35:23 <alejandra> q?
21:35:23 <SimonCox> +1
21:35:24 <DaveBrowning> ok
21:35:26 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
21:35:29 <PWinstanley> +1
21:35:44 <SimonCox> resolved: merge PR 614, close #53, #68
21:36:05 <alejandra> q?
21:36:41 <SimonCox> q+
21:36:49 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:37:32 <alejandra> SimonCox: I worked on issue 79 because it was related to the qualified relations
21:37:51 <alejandra> ... very discrete things with potentially lots of power
21:38:10 <alejandra> q?
21:39:38 <alejandra> Versioning text in the wiki: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/wiki/Dataset-(and-other-DCAT)-versioning
21:39:43 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: versioning is stuck. Not sure how to progress - needs help
21:39:46 <SimonCox> q+
21:40:00 <SimonCox> ... probably will not be ready to the next PWD
21:40:36 <SimonCox> ... need to solve the problem, but currently blocked
21:40:47 <alejandra> q?
21:40:54 <SimonCox> ... alejandra early contributions were good, now needs to be synthesized
21:41:16 <SimonCox> ... how much can we really say about versioning normatively
21:41:19 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:42:28 <alejandra> SimonCox: are we making this more complicated than it needs be? there is PAV
21:42:35 <alejandra> +q
21:42:40 <alejandra> ack alejandra
21:42:42 <DaveBrowning> q+
21:42:59 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 pav  as starting point, it is coherent with the DWBP https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#dataVersioning
21:43:14 <alejandra> https://www.w3.org/TR/hcls-dataset/
21:43:24 <SimonCox> alejandra: HCLS dataset description discussed versioning a lot, draws on PAV
21:43:40 <alejandra> q?
21:43:43 <SimonCox> ... split version level and distribution level
21:43:45 <alejandra> ack DaveBrowning
21:44:15 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: agrees that PAV meets at least some of the requirements
21:44:36 <SimonCox> ... might unblock the matter
21:44:48 <alejandra> q?
21:44:52 <SimonCox> ... needs some discursive material on versioning choices
21:45:06 <SimonCox> ... but perhaps this belongs in Primer not Rec
21:45:35 <alejandra> q+
21:46:25 <alejandra> ack alejandra
21:46:28 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: has some interesting examples that could be described in January - maybe don't belong in rec
21:46:29 <SimonCox> ack alejandra
21:46:50 <alejandra> q?
21:46:52 <SimonCox> alejandra: PAV is not a Rec. ... does this matter?
21:46:53 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
21:47:20 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:47:45 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: recalls discussion on re-use of 3rd party vocabs in relation to DQV
21:48:01 <alejandra> q?
21:48:04 <SimonCox> ... maintainable, persistently accessible is the main criterion, not formal status
21:48:18 <SimonCox> ... will it be viable long term?
21:48:26 <SimonCox> q+
21:48:31 <alejandra> ack SimonCox
21:48:33 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
21:48:55 <riccardoAlbertoni> q-
21:49:00 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
21:49:07 <alejandra> alejandra: we might deal with sustainability of the resource by integrating the solution
21:49:20 <SimonCox> persistence issue might be managed by publishing as a W3C Note ...
21:49:29 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:49:31 <alejandra> ?q
21:49:33 <alejandra> q/
21:49:35 <alejandra> q?
21:49:45 <alejandra> s/?q/
21:49:54 <alejandra> s/q//
21:49:56 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: did not use vocabularies where the definitions were not clear of mods were needed
21:49:58 <alejandra> q?
21:50:02 <SimonCox> s/of/or/
21:50:15 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/248
21:50:25 <SimonCox> Topic: assigning owners to issues in milestone
21:50:48 <DaveBrowning> q+
21:50:59 <alejandra> ack DaveBrowning
21:51:10 <SimonCox> alejandra: License and Rights - need to add some properties into text description of DCAT classes
21:51:19 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: agrees
21:51:23 <alejandra> q?
21:51:23 <PWinstanley> How well maintained is PAV?
21:51:49 <alejandra> q?
21:51:59 <PWinstanley> according to LOV the last version was c.4 y ago
21:52:32 <PWinstanley> ok, that's helpful.
21:53:05 <riccardoAlbertoni> s/riccardoAlbertoni: did not use vocabularies where the definitions were not clear of mods were /riccardoAlbertoni: In DQV we have ingested daQ, as we needed to make it more compliant with the DWBP group expectation
21:53:07 <SimonCox> PAV is a profile of PROV ... !
21:53:24 <SimonCox> could be documented using the Profiles ontology
21:54:06 <alejandra> q?
21:56:35 <SimonCox> Work needed on document:
21:56:46 <SimonCox> alejandra: to copy properties into classes
21:57:08 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: concerned about contributor list - header or annex?
21:57:14 <SimonCox> alejandra: depends on length
21:57:36 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: contributors to meetings and PRs
21:57:46 <SimonCox> ... should be included
21:57:53 <alejandra> q?
21:59:00 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestone/14
21:59:19 <SimonCox> alejandra: we can close most of the milestone issues
21:59:24 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
21:59:32 <alejandra> ack riccardoAlbertoni
21:59:39 <SimonCox> ... can riccardoAlbertoni comment on FAIR?
21:59:47 <SimonCox> riccardoAlbertoni: move to next milestone
21:59:58 <DaveBrowning> q+
22:00:00 <SimonCox> ... maybe Andrea has specific suggestion
22:00:08 <alejandra> ack DaveBrowning
22:00:47 <SimonCox> DaveBrowning: Andrea made 'strong recommendation' to address this in the currnet milestone
22:01:07 <alejandra> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestone/15
22:01:19 <SimonCox> ... next MS!
22:01:23 <SimonCox> Xmas homework
22:02:10 <SimonCox> Next meeting in week of 7th Jan
22:02:12 <riccardoAlbertoni> happy end of the year
22:02:18 <DaveBrowning> rrsagent, create minutes v2
22:02:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/19-dxwgdcat-minutes.html DaveBrowning
22:02:22 <PWinstanley> bye!!  Have a great holiday.  Happy Christmas
22:02:25 <alejandra> happy holidays!
22:02:40 <SimonCox> rrsagent, draft minutes v2
22:02:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/12/19-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox