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14:58:21 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/11/06-dpvcg-irc
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15:01:17 <AxelPollleres> Hi Bert, it seems the webex doesn't work for our regular slot but is set to next week...
15:01:30 <AxelPollleres> ... any chance this can be fixed.
15:01:46 <AxelPollleres> Alternatively, is there any other service we can switch to?
15:01:51 <harsh> harsh has joined #dpvcg
15:01:55 <Bert> WebEx works now
15:02:07 <AxelPollleres> Otherwise, I see no better alternative than doing the meeting "chat only".
15:02:16 <AxelPollleres> great!
15:02:51 <Javier> Javier has joined #DPVCG
15:04:35 <AxelPollleres> Hello everybody!
15:04:53 <Eva> Eva has joined #dpvcg
15:04:58 <Bert> present+
15:05:09 <Eva> present+ and hearing Axel :)
15:05:15 <stefano> present+
15:05:20 <harsh> present+
15:05:32 <Niklas> present+
15:05:38 <Javier> present+
15:05:59 <AxelPollleres> Attendees: elmar, bert, stefano, harsh, eva, niklas, javier, axel
15:06:06 <Ramisa> present+
15:06:24 <Urosh> Urosh has joined #dpvcg
15:06:37 <AxelPollleres> Attendees: elmar, bert, stefano, harsh, eva, niklas, javier, axel, martin, ramisa
15:06:40 <Urosh> Hi all
15:06:52 <Urosh> Where can we find the link for the call?
15:07:17 <AxelPollleres> scribe: bert
15:07:20 <Eva> https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m58820d34eca4f9e04cd99547751d1c12
15:07:21 <Urosh> the one provided in the email asks for login credentials
15:07:29 <Urosh> thanks!
15:07:49 <AxelPollleres> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Nov/0000.html
15:07:55 <Eva> Meeting numbe ris 317 247 878
15:08:15 <AxelPollleres> present+
15:08:38 <Sabrina> Sabrina has joined #dpvcg
15:08:59 <AxelPollleres> PROPOSED: approve last call's minutes https://www.w3.org/2018/10/16-dpvcg-minutes
15:09:11 <harsh> +1
15:09:12 <AxelPollleres> +1
15:09:19 <stefano> +1
15:09:31 <Sabrina> present+ Sabrina
15:09:35 <AxelPollleres> RESOLVED: approve last call's minutes https://www.w3.org/2018/10/16-dpvcg-minutes
15:09:48 <MarkLizar> MarkLizar has joined #dpvcg
15:09:59 <AxelPollleres> topic: action items
15:10:00 <AxelPollleres> https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/track/actions/open
15:11:44 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: axel to contact michael markevich on ACTION-6
15:11:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Contact michael markevich on action-6 [on Axel Polleres - due 2018-11-13].
15:12:20 <stefano> who is the scribe?
15:12:43 <harsh> scribe: harsh
15:12:46 <AxelPollleres> close ACTION-7
15:12:46 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-7.
15:12:57 <MarkLizar> Hello
15:13:22 <AxelPollleres> ACTION-11 continued
15:13:38 <AxelPollleres> ACTION-14 continued
15:14:37 <elmar> elmar has joined #dpvcg
15:14:38 <AxelPollleres> close ACTION-17 with the conclusion that we do at the moment not focus on rediscussing requirements
15:14:49 <AxelPollleres> close ACTION-17
15:14:49 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-17.
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15:15:04 <AxelPollleres> ACTION-19 continued
15:15:39 <AxelPollleres> close ACTION-23
15:15:39 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-23.
15:16:29 <AxelPollleres> close ACTION-24
15:16:29 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-24.
15:16:47 <AxelPollleres> close ACTION-26
15:16:47 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-26.
15:17:16 <AxelPollleres> ACTION-27 continued
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15:17:46 <AxelPollleres> close ACTION-28
15:17:46 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-28.
15:18:15 <AxelPollleres> close ACTION-30
15:18:15 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-30.
15:18:23 <AxelPollleres> ACTRION-29 continued
15:18:40 <AxelPollleres> s/ACTRION/ACTION/
15:18:51 <simonstey_> present+
15:19:01 <elmar> present+
15:19:05 <MarkLizar> present+
15:19:32 <Urosh> present+
15:19:37 <harsh> AxelPolleres: Next points on the agenda, to discuss progress since last time. There has been some discussion on lawfulness for processing.
15:19:47 <AxelPollleres> topic: lawfulness of processing https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Oct/0027.html
15:19:53 <harsh> AxelPolleres: Started in the mail thread (link shared
15:20:09 <harsh> Eva: It would be good to inform the community about Rigo's email.
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15:20:40 <harsh> link to Rigo's email https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Nov/0002.html
15:20:55 <Bert> -> https://www.w3.org/mid/2273843.xauRQj15pD@hegel Rigo's mail on GDPR taxonomy
15:21:19 <AxelPollleres> ... rigo's image: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Nov/att-0002/GDPR-taxonomy.pdf
15:21:38 <Sabrina> The meeting / discussion happened at the SPECIAL consortium meeting in London
15:21:47 <harsh> Eva: The email (has an attachment). Axel, Rigo and I met last week, and we were discussing lawfulness of processing, and Rigo said we should try to convey what a lawyer would look at first when auditing the legality of processing. Perhaps we can display the steps of what the auditor would map/show (?). That was Rigo's first attempt, but I will probably do one as well.
15:22:15 <harsh> Eva: To see which kind of elements a lawyer would look at in the context of the GDPR
15:22:25 <Sabrina> clarification: The whole consortium were involved in the discussion not just Eva, Rigo and Axel
15:22:37 <simonstey> present- simonstey_
15:22:39 <simonstey> present+
15:23:31 <harsh> AxelPolleres: The discussion was around the second layer of the tree (see attachment in Rigo's email). On the other hand, there was discussion where several people have replied via email. Can Eva and Rigo summarise these discussions?
15:24:08 <harsh> Eva: We can do that. However, I can get around to it only in the next week.
15:24:19 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: Eva (and Rigo) to summarize the discussion for legitmation of data processing and come up with a first proposal of categories
15:24:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-32 - (and rigo) to summarize the discussion for legitmation of data processing and come up with a first proposal of categories [on Eva Schlehahn - due 2018-11-13].
15:25:05 <AxelPollleres>  q?
15:26:51 <harsh> AxelPolleres: Next on the agenda, consent and comptency consent
15:27:14 <AxelPollleres> Elements of consent/competency questions for consent https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Oct/0025.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Oct/0025.html>, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Oct/0038.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Oct/0038.html> -> I would like to task someone to summarize these and make a proposal to the group we can discuss, e.g. based on what [CUT]
15:27:14 <AxelPollleres> in the minutes last time:
15:27:15 <AxelPollleres> consent = agreement through an [affirmative action] at a specific [time] with a [data controller] to specific [processing] and [storage] of specific [data categories] for specific [purpose] and [duration]
15:27:16 <AxelPollleres> which of these aspects are similarly relevant for other forms of legitmation than consent?
15:28:50 <harsh> AxelPolleres: There was discussion on elements on consent, there were some mails. In our last call, we got some attributes for what consent, which is an affirmative action (...) from email. The things in the square attributes would be the attributes, are we missing some attributes? There was some discussion on the mailing list. Someone needs to summarise these to see if we need more refined definitions.
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15:29:06 <harsh> AxelPolleres: As someone said, storage is also a kind of processing, but has advantages in having a special status.
15:29:13 <jonathan> present+
15:29:26 <harsh> Javier: It is missing the Data Subject
15:29:26 <AxelPollleres> Niklas: [data subject] is missing
15:30:45 <harsh> AxelPolleres: This is related to the action to Eva and Rigo. These attributes would hold for other forms of legal basis / lawfulness?
15:30:49 <Javier> hash: Time and duration might be relevant
15:30:58 <AxelPollleres> Harsh: had a go on attributes relevant for attributes on other legitimation
15:31:05 <Javier> s/hash/harsh
15:31:05 <harsh> MarkLizar: I've been working on parameters of consent, I can provide some input regarding that
15:31:46 <harsh> AxelPolleres: Harsh and Mark, can you summarise this? To give us a summary of the discussion? To review these by the group. The current definition could be "agreement by .. a data subject".
15:31:54 <AxelPollleres> Mark: can provide input on that.
15:32:26 <AxelPollleres> consent = agreement by a [data subject[ through an [affirmative action] at a specific [time] with a [data controller] to specific [processing] and [storage] of specific [data categories] for specific [purpose] and [duration]
15:32:30 <harsh> harsh: I can add these to the wiki
15:33:13 <harsh> MarkLizar: We have just written the GDPR version and added the elements, what is not clear, is regarding delegation of consent, sub-processing, the scope of consent. These things are missing in the definitions.
15:33:30 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: Harsh to summarize elements of consent from the mails and align with Mark Lizar on "concent receipt" definition (e.g. on delegation)
15:33:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-33 - Summarize elements of consent from the mails and align with mark lizar on "concent receipt" definition (e.g. on delegation) [on Harshvardhan Pandit - due 2018-11-13].
15:33:36 <harsh> MarkLizar: In a consent transaction, there is someone acting on the behalf of the consent, controller, etc. which is a delegation which is important to catch.
15:33:43 <harsh> AxelPolleres: For e.g. consent for minors
15:34:12 <harsh> MarkLizar: yes, consent for minor. A processor acting on the behalf of the controllor, or a trust provider acting on behalf of the regulator.
15:34:27 <AxelPollleres> MarkLizar: often third party involved, also on behalf of Data Controller.
15:34:42 <Javier> Axel: Please keep the discussion in the mailing list
15:34:49 <AxelPollleres> Axel: please keep the discussion on the mailinglist.
15:34:57 <Eva> I support this request, these are very important aspects Mark raised
15:35:27 <AxelPollleres> topic: Harsh's mail on collecting terms from vocabularies: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Oct/0041.html, https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/Taxonomy
15:38:02 <harsh> AxelPolleres: How do we structure or order these (collected) categories?
15:38:03 <AxelPollleres> Axel: just lables there so far, definitions would be useful, anyway a great start.
15:39:16 <Eva> having trouble with the network connection, I apologize
15:40:31 <harsh> AxelPolleres: the terms listed in the taxonomy are structured along different dimensions (such as scientific data). So we should ask what are these categories (to identify)?
15:41:36 <harsh> MarkLizar: It has been difficult to find a consistent taxonomy or structure for categorisation (based on experience)
15:42:42 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: Niklas to start structuring categories of personal data and involved dimensions together with Elmar and Harsh, Mark
15:42:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-34 - Start structuring categories of personal data and involved dimensions together with elmar and harsh, mark [on Niklas Kirchner - due 2018-11-13].
15:42:48 <harsh> MarkLizar: I can share some previous attempts that did not work
15:43:15 <harsh> MarkLizar: GDPR has categories of controller, which are referenced lightly. We called them GDPR purpose categories, but they are different lists.
15:44:33 <harsh> AxelPolleres: We are interested in different taxonomies for categories of data, processing, data subjects, etc. We have a starting point already. We should try to structure there, but we don't have these for the use-cases.
15:45:04 <harsh> AxelPolleres: We should go through the use-cases, and task the owners (of use-case) to enter the applicable taxonomies (from email) to the use-case page.
15:45:32 <harsh> AxelPolleres: This will allow us to cover the use-cases and to see if we are missing something. (suggested approach to go forward).
15:46:47 <harsh> https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/Taxonomy
15:46:48 <AxelPollleres> https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/Taxonomy
15:47:02 <harsh> AxelPolleres: For the approved categories, we should start focusing on these.
15:48:03 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: Mark to add previous classifications to subpages of https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/Taxonomy
15:48:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-35 - Add previous classifications to subpages of https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/taxonomy [on Mark Lizar - due 2018-11-13].
15:48:18 <harsh> MarkLizar: I have a few reasons why these categories/lists don't work (to be adde to Taxnomy wiki)
15:48:49 <harsh> AxelPolleres: Next on the agenda, use-cases. Do we have some use-case owner's on call.
15:48:53 <AxelPollleres> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Nov/0000.html points 1.-6. in the email
15:49:08 <Eva> Harald can try to do that proposed action on the public entities obligations use case he added to the wiki
15:49:09 <AxelPollleres> current use cases:
15:49:10 <AxelPollleres> https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/Use-Cases,_Requirements,_Vocabularies#Use-Cases
15:49:37 <harsh> AxelPolleres: What we need (w.r.t use-cases) is more description based on the points in the email.
15:50:30 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: Rudy to add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/SPECIAL/Proximus_use_case
15:50:31 <MarkLizar> Apologies - I have to drop - as I am at a security conference in Brussels and have to participate..   - very nice pace Axel !!
15:50:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - Add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-dpvcg/2018nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/special/proximus_use_case [on Rudy Jacob - due 2018-11-13].
15:51:45 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: MArtin to add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/SPECIAL/DT_use_case
15:51:45 <trackbot> Error finding 'MArtin'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/track/users>.
15:51:53 <Martin_K> I'm here and will tak the actions
15:52:06 <Martin_K> for some reasins audio did not work:(
15:52:19 <Martin_K> sorry for spelling errors
15:52:23 <Eva> Yes I have sometimes trouble with the audio as well
15:53:17 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: Ben to add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpvcg/2018Nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/SPECIAL/TR_use_case
15:53:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-37 - Add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-dpvcg/2018nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/special/tr_use_case [on Benedict Whittam Smith - due 2018-11-13].
15:54:21 <Eva> Axel, I think you've skipped the public entities use case - this would be an action point for Harald
15:54:40 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: Stefano to Add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-dpvcg/2018nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/DECODE/DEC01_use_case - https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/DECODE/DEC03_use_case
15:54:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - Add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-dpvcg/2018nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/decode/dec01_use_case - https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/decode/dec03_use_case [on Stefano Bocconi - due 2018-11-13].
15:56:39 <AxelPollleres> ACTION: Elmar to add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-dpvcg/2018nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/OwnYourData/Data_Donation
15:56:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-39 - Add points 1.-6. from https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-dpvcg/2018nov/0000.html  to https://www.w3.org/community/dpvcg/wiki/ownyourdata/data_donation [on Elmar Kiesling - due 2018-11-13].
15:57:13 <harsh> AxelPolleres: About F2F in December. Two days in December (3 or 5)
15:57:31 <harsh> AxelPolleres: Would strongly prefer 3rd over 5th.
15:57:52 <AxelPollleres> Stefano, Ramisa would be able to dial in  on the 3rd.
15:58:19 <Eva> At which time would we start on the 3rd?
15:58:29 <harsh> AxelPolleres: Goal would be to progress on the things discussed today for coming up with a basis for the vocabulary.
15:58:46 <harsh> Have to leave, apologies.
15:58:46 <Sabrina> I have a lecture in the morning therefore I could not join until after lunch
15:58:58 <harsh> Someone else please take on the scribing duties.
15:59:20 <AxelPollleres> PROPOSED: F2F meeting at December third in Vienna at WU.
15:59:26 <AxelPollleres> +1
15:59:34 <Bert> scribe: Bert
15:59:41 <simonstey> +1
15:59:51 <stefano> so it would be all day long meeting?
15:59:52 <AxelPollleres> niklas: +1
15:59:56 <Martin_K> +1
16:00:10 <Bert> AxelPollleres: any objections to 3 dec?
16:00:14 <stefano> +1
16:00:16 <Javier> +1
16:00:27 <Eva> +1
16:00:40 <Martin_K> sorry, need to leave now. cu in Vienna dec 3rd
16:00:42 <Bert> RESOLVED: ftf on 3 dec
16:00:42 <AxelPollleres> RESOLVED: F2F meeting at December third in Vienna at WU.
16:00:49 <Eva> Starting time?
16:01:01 <AxelPollleres> starting time 9am latest, I'd say.
16:01:08 <AxelPollleres> let's discuss details next time.
16:01:14 <stefano> bye
16:01:15 <AxelPollleres> adjourned.
16:01:23 <AxelPollleres> AOB please on mailinglist!
16:01:27 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes v2
16:01:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/06-dpvcg-minutes.html Bert
16:06:12 <AxelPollleres> AxelPollleres has joined #dpvcg
16:07:40 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes public
16:07:40 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', Bert.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:13:05 <Bert> RRSAgent, make logs public
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16:59:53 <Bert> s/comptency/competency/
17:03:07 <Bert> s/present+ and hearing Axel :)/present+/
17:03:22 <Bert> chair: Axel
17:03:35 <Bert> meeting: dpvcg
17:04:02 <Bert> s/Hi Bert, it seems the webex doesn't work for our regular slot but is set to next week...//
17:04:13 <Bert> s/... any chance this can be fixed.//
17:04:28 <Bert> s/Alternatively, is there any other service we can switch to?//
17:04:45 <Bert> s/WebEx works now//
17:05:00 <Bert> s/Otherwise, I see no better alternative than doing the meeting "chat only".//
17:05:13 <Bert> s/great!//
17:05:27 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes v2
17:05:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/06-dpvcg-minutes.html Bert
17:08:46 <Bert> i/Next on the agenda, consent and competency consent/Topic: Consent and competency consent
17:10:53 <Bert> s/RESOLVED: ftf on 3 dec//
17:10:55 <Bert> RRSAgent, make minutes v2
17:10:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/11/06-dpvcg-minutes.html Bert
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