W3C

Automotive Working Group Teleconference

04 Sep 2018

Attendees

Present
Ted, Guru, Ulf, PatrickB, PatrickL, Magnus, Laurent, Gunnar, Harjot
Regrets
Benjamin
Chair
PatrickL
Scribe
Ted

Contents


Signal / Resource access

Volvo assessment of Signal / Resource access

Ulf: my colleagues Peter and Joakim together with Magnus (Melco) looked at the different transports of VISS and ViWi (RSI), sockets and http respectively
... ideal if we want to support both protocols would be if the payload could be transport agnostic
... we want to analyze the feasibility
... on screen you can see to the left examples of different actions, subscribe, get etc
... payload response is in JSON
... what we found in ViWi is on the right in a chart with different levels of URI resolution
... we wanted to see if this could all be mapped. i categorized three different areas
... this is our analysis and might be flawed, please point out any issues you might see
... area 1 maps to get and set actions of VISS
... area 2 maps to getMetaData action
... area 3 concerns adding and removing nodes in tree which is something VISS is not capable of
... from this we tried to draw some conclusions
... we do not believe it is possible to have identical payloads sent over these protocols
... VISS get and set maps to HTTP GET and PUT (or POST)
... HTTP URI path itself contains information that would be better as part of the payload
... area 3 outlines things capable in ViWi that VISS cannot handle at present, it can be added but would be a rather substantial change
... possible but adds complexity
... we can decide to have part of both or limit these actions to HTTP only
... same information can be sent but in different payloads
... we came up with an alternative idea, using profiles. one geared more for signals other resource
... we thought area 3 only belongs in resource access, so HTTP
... for subscription we think both should use web sockets
... get and set should be in both
... metadata in ViWi is over HTTP and VISS, sockets
... we think sockets were more suitable
... the security part with token and OAuth2 is the same in both and should be
... this could affect other functionality like advanced query
... what is described in ViWi is needed, VISS would benefit from it as well
... signal access profile would be less complex and easier to implement

Magnus: we had some discussions about risks of having profiles, whether the specification can diverge that way

Ulf: profiles would allow for different functionality for the access methods

Gunnar: a few initial thoughts
... regarding same format for the payload, JSON is hierarchical and could be sequential - list of several things
... an addressing part and data part. the data format could be the same

Ulf: I agree
... it would still not bring us to identical

Gunnar: closer though
... I have a fair idea between POST and PUT but in your assessment you have either as being able to create a new node
... maybe there is more reason there

PatrickB: PUT would do if you knew resource location otherwise you would be POST and a uuid would be generated

Gunnar: that matches my understanding
... regarding formats and different features, when I pointed out WAMP it wasn't adopted nor advanced as a topic
... there are a number of features we would benefit from and worth another consideration
... it came up in IETF and later OASIS contexts
... they do have a HTTP bridge that isn't formally specified but implemented, it handles socket and HTTP
... we should go through some scenarios in more detail to see if they even make sense for signals

<Zakim> ted, you wanted to ask about VSS pull request

Ted: earlier you cited how in HTTP the response body itself does not contain path, it is handled in headers. your pending VSS pull request had similar ambition, to not rely on VSS tree path used to access the information but have it in the payload. we should do the same here

Ulf: in sockets it is done with path key/value and could use dot notation
... it can have same semantic meaning to server
... HTTP manager could extract path part of URI and include in resource body in class notation

PatrickL: to clarify the profiles would map the transport protocol behavior onto the transport used

Ulf: correct

PatrickL: the payload should match the idea of the methods as well. the payload with the headers should be part of the profile mapping as well
... the mapping of the methods and return values are descriptions in the profile. this gets complicated on POST, sending JSON
... every suitable transport protocol must match their return values. it doesn't make a difference to describe how the verbs and return has to be understood
... thinking about MQTT about another protocol complicates things, what is important is that the same information is returned

Laurent: we should not mix headers and content, replication in headers is a particular of the protocol. my design should not be limited by the protocol itself
... think of the developer and avoid have them mix and match accessing information from a HTTP request
... in BT world you have different profiles about functionality
... in mp4 you also have profiles which define what operations you can use to decode the format but that is very different
... is the profile for the content or the operations?
... it makes sense to have a signal profile and another which might provide more content
... I would use profiling to help the developer to select the appropriate access method
... what are the technical challenges that this profile solves?
... if we forget about the two access methods and take a step back and look at profiles, they are to help with different use cases
... we should have as consistent a payload as possible regardless

Ulf: I see our idea here as profiles at handling methods and content the same
... content and format should be the same

<Zakim> ted, you wanted to mention JSON-LD

Ted: when PatrickL was discussing POST not being able to send JSON like VISS set, I am reminded of JSON-LD which is meant to send data back with any modifications back to the server as JSON. something to consider especially since that is how Web Of Things group is going

PatrickL: I need to reflect further but see this as going in the right direction
... any more questions?
... next week we will return to this topic as a recap and get into covergence todos lists

[adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.152 (CVS log)
$Date: 2018/09/04 14:01:46 $