<mck> agenda https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/August-13%2C-2018-Meeting

<AnnAbbott> test

<scribe> scribe: jongund

Empty spinbutton question

Issue 704 : https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/704

MK: What about emtpy spinner, you require a value, but you don't have a default

JN: I think that is totally valid
... It doesn't default to 0

MK: So we are going to have to change the ARIA spec, Issue 797

JN: I don't see the aria-valuemax, and aria-valuemax should be required or supported, visually you don't get that information
... The min max inoformation is only available as help, or erro rmessage

AA: I don't like guessing games

JN: Its a guessing game for everyone else, unless there is some help information
... When they are not known, then the values...

MK: The spec is conflicting with itself, required attributes need valid values

JN: You would have to change the spec for an undefined values

MK: The spec says that you must have a valid value for a required values
... I am going to submit a PR to fix these conflicting requirements of the spec
... It should be an optio to support delete and backspace, if the author wants too

JN: In Firefox it sets the valuetext poperty and doesn't sue the other values
... aria-value is typically read as a percentage, rahter than an number, if you use valuetext then it reads the value

MK: You can's set a percentage unless you define min and max
... The percentage is not a useful thing to be doing for a spin button
... I agree the number is probably more important
... Does anyone else have more comments on this issue?

aria-controls and aria-expanded on tabs

MK: I would like to talk about the aria-controls issue first
... This is an old issue, we need to clean these out
... There are multiple issues related to this
... The issue is that you cannot move focus to the referenced element, because it is off screen
... Options on what the user expereince should be
... Is this a author, user or screen reader issue

AA: only if it is offscree?

MK: Stuff that is not visible, ...

AA: What if it is in an expanded or collapsed section?

JN: The screen reader should give the user options. It is not the authors

MK: JAWS announces no matter what, unless there is a more recent version

MB: I am not sure who's responsibility it is

Bryan: I don't have a strong opinion

MK: You are saying either screen reader or browser, not an authoring requirement
... The values of aria-controls is related to testing and validation, you know which element is suppose to be visible
... You could not tell what anything controls, and so if there is a control that is not controlling anything, it would be hard to figure that out
... On menus I am thinking aria-controls should be users, rather than parent child, sibling relationships
... From a practical matter the author controls

AA: Is there anything for the author to only point to visible stuff

MK: I m trying to say that it shouldn't be the authors problem
... If I was designing a screen reader I would never say "Controls", I would say something like "Press X key to move to panel XYZ", I would not add the words "controls"
... If you are poviidng a move to function just say that

JN: I see pointing to updated data or values

MK: I am going to submit a Issue, they might comment if we..
... I propose we move to aria-expanded to next week, and move to the carousel review

Carousel review

https://rawgit.com/jongund/aria-practices/carousel/examples/carousel/carousel-1/carousel.html

<AnnAbbott> mck: should say something about auto-rotation

<AnnAbbott> jg: looked at Bootstrap 3 example

<AnnAbbott> jg: pause button only pops up in review mode

<AnnAbbott> jg: as soon as kbd focus or hover, it stops

<AnnAbbott> jg: what should happen if kbd focus or hover is removed?

<AnnAbbott> jg: image title has h3 for reference

<AnnAbbott> jg: Prev & Next buttons could have extra text to indicate title of appropriate slide

<AnnAbbott> jg: tab order is bottom, left, right

<AnnAbbott> jg: can use either Prev/Next or the dots

<AnnAbbott> bg: listbox instead of dots?

<AnnAbbott> mk: stops rotating when gets focus

<AnnAbbott> mk: no notification that there are more slides

<AnnAbbott> jg: tablist and tabs

<AnnAbbott> mk: when Next is activated, no JAWS notification

<AnnAbbott> bg: region of carousel

<AnnAbbott> aa: region with unique names

<AnnAbbott> bg: dots are aria-buttons

<AnnAbbott> mck: group or toolbar

<AnnAbbott> bg: uses group

<AnnAbbott> mck: aria-controls could move to slide content

<AnnAbbott> mck: Prev/Next should have aria-controls of slide title/panel

<AnnAbbott> jg: clicking on dot moves to that slide

<AnnAbbott> mck: only sr user would know if dots are grouped

<AnnAbbott> or tabs

<AnnAbbott> mck: group is better

<AnnAbbott> jg: will update and review in two weeks

<AnnAbbott> No meeting Sept 3

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Present: jamesn MarkMcCarthy matt_king evan jemma curtbellew jongund AnnAbbott
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