IRC log of sdw on 2018-06-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:13 [josephabhayaratna]

jtandy: this issue is still open

00:01:10 [josephabhayaratna]

SimonCox: 1022 has been responded to by Maxime. Still awaiting a response from the issue creator as to whether the workaround is acceptable

00:02:07 [josephabhayaratna]

jtandy: will take the Time update via email

00:02:59 [tidoust]

RRSAgent, draft minutes v2

00:02:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/06-sdw-minutes.html tidoust

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14:00:36 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/06/06-sdw-irc

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14:00:51 [tidoust]

RRSAgent, make logs public

14:01:02 [tidoust]

Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web IG F2F - Day 2/2

14:01:03 [josephabhayaratna]

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14:01:07 [tidoust]

Chair: Linda, Jeremy

14:01:16 [tidoust]

Present+ ClemensPortele

14:02:09 [tidoust]

Present+ Francois

14:03:07 [brinkwoman]

present+ Linda

14:03:11 [tidoust]

scribenick: tidoust

14:03:15 [eparsons]

present+ eparsons

14:03:26 [tidoust]

Topic: Strategy funnel update - CityJSON

14:03:36 [PeterR]

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14:04:07 [tidoust]

jtandy: Since Amersfoort, do you have a status update?

14:04:29 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: Yes.

14:04:35 [tidoust]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2jux2e7lfdda27/2018-06-06.pdf?dl=0 CityJSON Presentation slides

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14:05:21 [jtandy]

Present+ jtandy

14:05:27 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: To speak of CityJSON, we need to speak about CityGML first.

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14:05:39 [marqh]

present+

14:05:41 [tidoust]

... CityGML is both a data model and a GML encoding, and both are called CityGML

14:06:10 [josephab_]

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14:06:18 [josephab_]

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14:06:18 [tidoust]

... Two implementations of the data model: CityGML, and 3DCityDB in a relational database (never been standardized)

14:06:34 [tidoust]

... CityJSON could be seen as a third implementation of the CityGML data model

14:07:05 [tidoust]

... In the last few months, we continued developing the specification and worked on tools

14:07:29 [tidoust]

... 0.6 version released. All modules have been mapped, some modules don't support everything, but that's mostly a choice!

14:07:46 [tidoust]

... We can fully read/write CityJSON and convert to/from CityGML.

14:07:57 [tidoust]

... We've been able to test most of the assertions

14:08:08 [tidoust]

... That is the first (and important!) milestone

14:08:34 [tidoust]

... Is it CityGML compliant? Yes, mostly, but there are a few "if".

14:08:52 [tidoust]

... citygml4j is the conversion tool

14:09:03 [MichaelGordon]

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14:09:19 [tidoust]

... We also released azul on Mac to read CityJSON natively.

14:09:27 [MichaelGordon]

present+ MichaelGordon

14:09:38 [tidoust]

... We also developed cjio (Python command-line interface)

14:09:49 [tidoust]

... Still beta but we can do a lot of operations on files.

14:10:07 [tidoust]

... Everything merged into one coherent package to process CityJSON files.

14:10:23 [tidoust]

... "pip install cjio" to install the tool.

14:10:44 [tidoust]

... The validation with the schema is included

14:11:21 [tidoust]

... I started to analyze file sizes between CityGML and CityJSON.

14:12:08 [tidoust]

... E.g. One part of Montreal is 56MB is CityGML, 7.8MB in CityJSON. So almost a factor 10.

14:12:30 [tidoust]

... Now removing spaces and tabs in CityGML removes 25% of the space

14:13:33 [tidoust]

... [going through things left to tackle, see slides]

14:14:15 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: Jeremy and I had a talk with CityGML folks to explain what the IG is doing and mention CityJSON

14:14:56 [tidoust]

... There were worried about the governance of CityJSON. They are developing CityGML 3.0 right now and have always had plans to develop a JSON serialization.

14:15:34 [tidoust]

... They haven't started yet.

14:16:19 [tidoust]

jtandy: The persons agreed with the points that you've made, Hugo.

14:16:37 [jtandy]

s/The persons/Steve Smith/

14:16:42 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: They were not saying that CityJSON should be an exact implementation of the CityGML data model.

14:16:59 [tidoust]

... They want to make sure that the design is correct though.

14:17:54 [tidoust]

jtandy: They want to make sure that all of the different encoding of the CityGML data model have a formalized mapping

14:18:25 [tidoust]

... In the JSON encoding that we've seen, there's a certain amount or artistry to make things easy for developers.

14:19:19 [tidoust]

... You talked about picking up all the models. CityJSON is compliant with CityGML...

14:19:26 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: Mostly.

14:19:49 [tidoust]

jtandy: I'm hearing that you're trying to have CityJSON compatible with the CityGML information model.

14:21:08 [ClemensPortele]

q+

14:21:20 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: In 2.0, there was no difference between the data model and the GML. Right now, I have a mapping for all geometry, semantics, etc. Raster files in GML, I've never seen a file that use that in CityGML.

14:21:43 [tidoust]

... We can convert a CityJSON to CityGML and back to CityJSON without losing information.

14:22:15 [tidoust]

... v3 is a distinct beast. They are adding so much more complexity in the model that I don't think I can keep a mapping.

14:22:19 [eparsons]

q+

14:22:53 [tidoust]

... I don't think it's possible to map the abstract classes, the new hierachy. It's also difficult for me to assess because they release the model every few months.

14:23:01 [tidoust]

... The process hasn't been very transparent.

14:23:19 [tidoust]

... Difficult to assess whether it will be possible to assess mapping to CityJSON.

14:23:21 [tidoust]

ack ClemensPortele

14:23:23 [jtandy]

Ack ClemensPortele

14:24:02 [tidoust]

ClemensPortele: In terms of communication, we need to be careful about "compliance". Two aspects:

14:24:46 [tidoust]

... Not everything in CityGML is implemented in CityJSON. It's a profile, but what is there is compliant.

14:25:34 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: Something I proposed yesterday for a way forward for v3 is indeed to create a profile of most used features of v3.0. Happy to be fully compliant for that profile.

14:25:40 [jtandy]

Q?

14:25:48 [jtandy]

Ack eparsons

14:26:11 [tidoust]

eparsons: With that work on v3, do they recognize that there's only going to be an XML encoding in the future?

14:26:25 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: No, they also want a JSON encoding.

14:26:36 [tidoust]

eparsons: But adding more complexity is going to make that much harder, surely.

14:26:52 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: We didn't get to that yesterday.

14:27:32 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: It's been a difficult discussion so far. The plan right now seems to be to work on the data model, and from there to work on the encodings.

14:27:43 [tidoust]

... For me, these two things need to go hand in hand.

14:27:45 [jtandy]

Q?

14:27:45 [josephab_]

q+

14:28:46 [tidoust]

jtandy: Yesterday with Carston and Steve, they said that where the encoding happens, they're not precious about where it happens, CityGML SWIG or elsewhere in OGC or W3C.

14:29:02 [tidoust]

... We didn't talk about profiles because I hadn't realized it was an important point to make.

14:29:08 [ClemensPortele]

s/SWIG/SWG/

14:29:21 [tidoust]

... Let's assume that there are profiles of CityGML.

14:29:54 [ClemensPortele]

q+

14:30:15 [tidoust]

... They talked about the v3 model being reasonable stable for the past 5 months. I felt a desire to be more open.

14:31:26 [tidoust]

... In terms of sequencing of the work, we talked about using a testbed approach, where we can take the CityJSON approach and the work that Steve has been doing, compare them, and challenge the model based on what makes things easy/hard.

14:31:42 [tidoust]

ack josephab_

14:31:42 [brinkwoman]

q+

14:31:55 [tidoust]

josephab_: That's the point that I wanted to make.

14:32:20 [PeterR]

q+

14:32:34 [tidoust]

... Hugo is essentially validating the serialization through tools. It would be a shame if that feedback was not taken into account for the information model.

14:33:34 [jtandy]

Q?

14:33:37 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: Certainly for the reasons that you mention. The point of view of the developer has always been difficult in SWG. CityJSON can help them for sure, and we're happy to provide feedback.

14:34:23 [tidoust]

... For the process, the problem is more a cultural thing: the GitHub repo does not allow to raise issues for instance.

14:34:26 [jtandy]

Ack ClemensPortele

14:35:07 [tidoust]

ClemensPortele: Going back to the profile point. Haven't looked to the v3.0 spec, but it probably defines conformance classes. Depending on how monolithic the conformance classes are, it may be difficult to define profiles.

14:35:42 [tidoust]

... Something Hugo should look into, otherwise the statement may be that CityJSON is not compliant.

14:36:18 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: Right, there's e.g. the notion of Space which is now part of the core.

14:36:29 [tidoust]

... Creating a profile would mean that we keep the core.

14:36:34 [jtandy]

Q?

14:36:39 [jtandy]

Ack brinkwoman

14:37:09 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: Hugo, do you know when the conceptual model will be done?

14:37:49 [tidoust]

ClemensPortele: September, they want to present the spec for review for spec published end of the year.

14:38:10 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: OK, then the Testbed approach may not work since it won't start until next year.

14:38:48 [jtandy]

Q?

14:39:06 [tidoust]

... On the cultural aspect, that resonates with similar experiences of people creating models on their side, and finding it difficult to get feedback once they publish what they believe is a perfect model.

14:40:05 [tidoust]

PeterR: Rendering-wise, CityJSON may be easier to process than CityGML. But deeply nested objects are sometimes a problem.

14:40:45 [tidoust]

jtandy: Summary: implementation is a good feedback loop to inform the underlying model.

14:41:04 [tidoust]

... The issues around the space stuff that is part of the core is a good example.

14:41:27 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: Right, they appeared 3 months ago.

14:42:03 [josephab_]

q

14:42:05 [tidoust]

jtandy: Is your view that they add unwarranted complexity? Or is it that they're new and it's not clear yet?

14:42:07 [josephab_]

q+

14:42:11 [ClemensPortele]

q+

14:42:22 [jtandy]

Ack PeterR

14:42:38 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: Both. My colleagues and I don't understand them the same way. Feedback I got from others is that they don't need it.

14:43:00 [tidoust]

... The concept of spaces is not meaningful for developers and difficult to assess.

14:43:09 [jtandy]

Q?

14:43:14 [hugoledoux]

https://github.com/opengeospatial/CityGML-3.0/tree/master/Conceptual%20Model

14:43:21 [tidoust]

... In my opinion, they make things more complex than necessary

14:43:23 [jtandy]

Ack josephab_

14:43:57 [hugoledoux]

the latest CityGML v3 are there (zipped... and 3mo old)

14:44:07 [tidoust]

josephab_: I would say, get on to the "hackathon", "testbed" thing ASAP, to show what works in implementations.

14:44:29 [tidoust]

... You'll be able to quickly validate whether that's useful or not.

14:44:44 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: I'm afraid that the vote would be based only on UML models.

14:45:12 [tidoust]

... I haven't seen the timeline yet. For me, it should happen when people have had the chance to study the implications of the new model.

14:45:19 [jtandy]

Q?

14:45:48 [jtandy]

Ack ClemensPortele

14:45:50 [tidoust]

... I'm not sure that there is time to move to v3. They also said that it's not their job to create a converter from v2 to v3

14:46:50 [tidoust]

ClemensPortele: Debatting whether the concept of CityJSON based on v2 makes sense and whether it should be promoted for standardization. And then there is alignment with v3, which is still not mature enough.

14:47:17 [tidoust]

... We cannot do much to move CityJSON to v3. That v3 is never going to be a standard before one year.

14:47:44 [tidoust]

... I think we can say that we're concerned and that profiles should be allowed.

14:48:03 [tidoust]

... We shouldn't wait for v3 to come along. We should work with what we already have, meaning v2.

14:48:16 [tidoust]

... Let the SWG do its job otherwise.

14:48:24 [jtandy]

Q?

14:48:24 [brinkwoman]

+1

14:48:29 [hugoledoux]

I like that a lot

14:48:59 [tidoust]

jtandy: We'll have another conversation with Carston and Steve here based on this discussion.

14:49:30 [tidoust]

... Having CityJSON standardized based on v2 seems a good recommendation.

14:50:00 [tidoust]

ClemensPortele: v2 has one conformance class and allows profiling, I think. If that's correct, CityJSON would be a compliant implementation.

14:50:45 [tidoust]

hugoledoux: Thank you all, that was very useful to get your feedback and help. It gives me back hope in the standardization process!

14:51:27 [tidoust]

Topic: Strategy funnel update - WebVMT

14:54:11 [tidoust]

Rob_Smith: From Away Team Software.

14:54:35 [tidoust]

... Use case update: I added a crisis response one. The details are in the explanatory spec.

14:55:26 [tidoust]

... Getting reliable geolocation information from the population in a crisis context. For instance, the volcano in Guatemala right now.

14:55:48 [tidoust]

... Second update is for the area survey: drone surveying an area. This was rather unexpected for me.

14:56:19 [tidoust]

... WebVMT is quite an efficient way to store geolocation info for video. Allows for rapid geoindexing.

14:56:54 [tidoust]

... Searching VMT files (20Kb/min) is faster than processing HD vidoes (30Mb/min)

14:58:03 [tidoust]

... Technical update: The Web player has now been integrated with YouTube. You can synchronize a video with a map. Uses the iframe API provided by Google.

14:58:22 [tidoust]

... I've also created a page that allows you to record and play a file

14:59:00 [tidoust]

s/record/load

14:59:15 [tidoust]

... I've also created a mobile app to record video with WebVMT. Planning to create a short film with it.

14:59:40 [tidoust]

... The app is in Android, compatible with Gingerbread and later.

15:00:26 [tidoust]

... Finally, engagement update: the draft has been updated. Parameters moved out of WebVMT file and into a track attribute.

15:00:55 [tidoust]

... On the community outreach, I have a growing list of contacts. Business, governments and other areas.

15:01:44 [tidoust]

... Business: Dashcams, drones. Government: rescue services, aviation, police (which uses body-worn cameras).

15:02:20 [tidoust]

... Research. Leaflet already supports some video functionality but simply as an overlay.

15:02:22 [brinkwoman]

q+

15:02:50 [jtandy]

Q?

15:03:19 [tidoust]

... I'm planning a web site for public engagement. Not a replacement for GitHub activity. Part of the outreach process.

15:03:36 [tidoust]

... Sending people to technical spec details might not be the best way to attract new people.

15:03:57 [tidoust]

... There isn't anywhere to display these at W3C.

15:04:29 [tidoust]

... I'm also mindful of Jeremy's point that this should not be part of the company's web site, so I'm proposing to use a dedicated domain.

15:04:34 [jtandy]

Q?

15:05:15 [jtandy]

Ack brinkwoman

15:05:40 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: I was wondering about police use cases. Maybe defense organizations could be interested as well. Lots of them represented at OGC, typically.

15:06:05 [tidoust]

Rob_Smith: Possibly. I've had no luck in that area so far, perhaps because I was looking for funding.

15:06:31 [tidoust]

MichaelGordon: I can introduce you to folks from DSTO, involved in standards. I suspect they might be interested in that topic.

15:06:45 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: [mentions Belgium]

15:06:56 [tidoust]

s/DSTO/DSTL

15:07:19 [tidoust]

MichaelGordon: I'll chat with these folks and will put you in touch if there's interest.

15:07:29 [MichaelGordon]

+21

15:07:47 [tidoust]

jtandy: Rob is proposing setting a Web site to gather feedback. I think that's a good idea.

15:08:01 [tidoust]

... I think it's separate from standard development.

15:08:08 [brinkwoman]

We could ask for a slot to demonstrate webVTM to the defence & intelligence DWG at the next OGC meeting

15:08:21 [tidoust]

... It sounds that you've worked on identifying your end users.

15:08:49 [tidoust]

... Another area is that we need to identify people that would actually help the development of the standard itself.

15:09:04 [tidoust]

Rob_Smith: That leads nicely in the topic I wanted to discuss next.

15:09:26 [tidoust]

... What is the best strategy to get other people involved?

15:09:44 [PeterR]

q+

15:09:51 [tidoust]

... Ultimately, the answer is money. There's a lot of collaboration in the space industry, where I come from, because it costs too much to do things on your own.

15:10:19 [tidoust]

... But having been turned down there, question is: who sponsors standards at OGC/W3C?

15:10:27 [MichaelGordon]

q+

15:10:52 [jtandy]

Q?

15:10:53 [tidoust]

... There has to be some incentives there that it will provide some useful benefits.

15:11:24 [tidoust]

... I was wondering about setting up a consortium or alliance.

15:11:39 [tidoust]

... Members could pay a subscription.

15:11:54 [tidoust]

... I'm wondering whether there is an acceptable approach.

15:12:04 [jtandy]

Q?

15:12:05 [tidoust]

... Are there better suggestions?

15:12:10 [jtandy]

Ack PeterR

15:13:00 [tidoust]

PeterR: It's a long road, Community Groups give you some visibility. Video and geo go naturally together. In theory, that's a good way to progress to a standard if you get enough people to contribute there.

15:13:48 [tidoust]

... Idea is that you propose a Community Group at W3C. 5 supports are enough to get it created.

15:13:58 [tidoust]

... That's a good way to socialize your ideas.

15:14:27 [tidoust]

... It doesn't bring any funding though.

15:14:39 [jtandy]

Q?

15:14:41 [tidoust]

... It's a lightweight way to start standardization process.

15:14:48 [jtandy]

Ack MichaelGordon

15:14:58 [tidoust]

-> https://www.w3.org/Community Community Groups at W3C

15:15:46 [tidoust]

MichaelGordon: I believe that there's enough of standardisation bodies out there. I wouldn't say that people sponsor standards, they get involved in standards they are interested in.

15:16:28 [tidoust]

... For an OGC direction, it's probably worth trying to approach the main principal members that could support the work.

15:17:01 [tidoust]

... Goal is to have enough initial support to be able to create the next logical thing.

15:17:19 [tidoust]

... Look at large OGC members who are interested enough to invest time in it.

15:17:48 [tidoust]

... I would suggest that you look at the OGC membership list and have a look at the strategy members for instance.

15:17:58 [brinkwoman]

http://www.opengeospatial.org/ogc/members

15:18:08 [tidoust]

... From there, see if they are interested in having a discussion at the next TC meeting, in Stuttgart.

15:19:25 [eparsons]

q+

15:19:38 [tidoust]

jtandy: Another piece you might be interested in is Testbed activities. A large company can sponsor research mediated by OGC, and SMEs can bid to participate.

15:19:48 [PeterR]

q+

15:20:35 [tidoust]

Rob_Smith: I've looked at testbeds previously, it seems it requires you to become an OGC member and to have sponsors first.

15:21:09 [MichaelGordon]

OGC membership list: http://www.opengeospatial.org/ogc/members

15:21:13 [jtandy]

Q?

15:21:13 [ClemensPortele]

https://github.com/opengeospatial/ideas

15:21:16 [tidoust]

[discussion about OGC testbed rules]

15:21:28 [PeterR]

Web Incubator Communty Group provides a forum for discussing ideas with browser vendors and other interested parties https://discourse.wicg.io/c/mediartc

15:21:45 [tidoust]

ClemensPortele: There is a GitHub repository for ideas. Sponsors look at it.

15:21:46 [PeterR]

You might have to join the community group before posting

15:22:30 [jtandy]

Q?

15:22:45 [tidoust]

MichaelGordon: I cannot, on top of my head, think of anything closely related to WebVMT in the current ideas, but putting that in the repository seems a very good way to make progress.

15:22:47 [jtandy]

Q?

15:22:55 [jtandy]

Ack eparsons

15:23:02 [tidoust]

q+

15:23:29 [tidoust]

eparsons: I was engaged by the idea of building a Web site. It demonstrates to people what you're solving.

15:23:48 [tidoust]

... Good use cases on a web site that is accessible to marketing people (as opposed to technical people).

15:23:55 [tidoust]

... That's really useful.

15:24:32 [tidoust]

... Second comment is that you need to think what are the best SDOs for this work. My gut feeling is that W3C is better suited, because of its history with video.

15:24:55 [tidoust]

... No mobile people involved in capturing video for instance.

15:25:07 [MichaelGordon]

q+

15:25:17 [tidoust]

... You'll catch these more through W3C than through OGC.

15:25:38 [jtandy]

Q?

15:25:55 [tidoust]

Rob_Smith: Capturing, and indexing seem like good use cases for the Web

15:26:22 [jtandy]

Q?

15:26:46 [tidoust]

eparsons: Right, machine learning is being used to determine location of videos. Improving that would help.

15:26:49 [jtandy]

Ack PeterR

15:27:07 [tidoust]

PeterR: I put my comment into the chat window. A link to the Web Platform Incubator Community Group.

15:27:14 [tidoust]

... It's a good forum to get.

15:27:26 [jtandy]

Ack tidoust

15:31:13 [jtandy]

Q?

15:31:17 [MichaelGordon]

q-

15:31:49 [tidoust]

tidoust: [mentions CG, IG, +1 to specific domain, need to identify implementors and what it means to implement WebVMT, and prototype using Web technologies to "look more web-friendly"]

15:32:19 [tidoust]

Rob_Smith: Back to strategy funnel, can I request moving to Incubation?

15:32:33 [tidoust]

PROPOSAL: Move WebVMT to Incubation in Strategy funnel

15:32:37 [brinkwoman]

+1

15:32:38 [eparsons]

+1

15:32:38 [tidoust]

+1

15:32:38 [ClemensPortele]

+1

15:32:38 [MichaelGordon]

+1

15:32:45 [Rob_Smith]

+1

15:32:45 [PeterR]

+1

15:32:47 [jtandy]

+1

15:32:49 [josephab_]

+1

15:33:04 [tidoust]

RESOLUTION: Move WebVMT to Incubation in Strategy funnel

15:33:47 [tidoust]

ACTION: tidoust to enact the resolution on WebVMT in the Strategy funnel

15:33:48 [trackbot]

Error finding 'tidoust'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.

15:34:54 [tidoust]

Topic: New funnel candidates

15:35:27 [tidoust]

jtandy: From discussions with Linda yesterday, our feeling is that it would be useful to put SSN Extensions into the funnel

15:36:25 [tidoust]

tidoust: It would be in Incubation, I believe

15:37:03 [tidoust]

MichaelGordon: I think it should be on that, to capture all things that we're dealing with.

15:40:37 [billroberts]

billroberts has joined #sdw

15:40:45 [jtandy]

Q?

15:40:52 [tidoust]

[Discussion on what incubation means and on what should appear in the funnel: SSN extensions. SSN v2]

15:41:40 [billroberts]

hello, just joined. Sorry for the confusion

15:42:01 [marqh]

q+

15:43:26 [tidoust]

tidoust: I believe it makes sense to put "SSN v2". That's the standardization question we need to answer. Not doing "real" standardization work is a perfectly valid answer.

15:43:35 [jtandy]

Q?

15:43:47 [tidoust]

jtandy: I propose to add SSN v2 and explain the work on the SSN extensions.

15:43:50 [jtandy]

Ack marqh

15:44:11 [marqh]

q+

15:44:38 [tidoust]

PROPOSAL: add SSN v2 to strategy funnel at Incubation phase

15:44:41 [MichaelGordon]

+1

15:44:42 [jtandy]

+1

15:44:42 [brinkwoman]

+1

15:44:43 [ClemensPortele]

+1

15:44:44 [Rob_Smith]

+1

15:44:44 [tidoust]

+1

15:44:45 [PeterR]

+1

15:44:56 [tidoust]

RESOLUTION: add SSN v2 to strategy funnel at Incubation phase

15:44:58 [josephab_]

+1

15:45:55 [tidoust]

jtandy: We should let Armin and Simon know as well.

15:46:17 [tidoust]

ack marqh

15:46:36 [tidoust]

marqh: I've had a couple of conversations about CoverageJSON.

15:46:38 [marqh]

https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/proposals/CovJSON.md

15:46:51 [marqh]

https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1029

15:46:52 [tidoust]

... There are a couple of pieces in the Spatial Data on the Web IG repo

15:47:05 [tidoust]

... [see resources I just pasted onto IRC]

15:48:06 [tidoust]

... Question on ongoing maintenance. Some parts that are not fully aligned with ISO standard (ISO 19123?)

15:48:17 [billroberts]

q+

15:48:22 [tidoust]

... Should we track that in the strategy funnel?

15:48:42 [tidoust]

brinkwoman: If there is work that anyone is willing to do on it, then it should be added to the funnel, yes

15:49:00 [Rob_Smith]

WebEx audio is very faint

15:49:48 [billroberts]

probably simply the distance from people to the microphone

15:50:19 [Rob_Smith]

Yes thanks

15:50:21 [billroberts]

yes thanks - better now

15:50:47 [tidoust]

jtandy: There appears to be a will to move it from something that has a more prominent status.

15:50:56 [marqh]

q+

15:51:18 [jtandy]

Q?

15:51:23 [jtandy]

Ack billroberts

15:51:54 [tidoust]

billroberts: I was one of the editors of the note that we did in the SDW WG, but the brains were Jon Blower.

15:52:27 [tidoust]

... We've been busy on other stuff. From a technical point, it has a lot of promises but I don't know who could take the lead.

15:52:48 [tidoust]

... That's not a priority for me so I'm not raising my hand.

15:53:02 [jtandy]

Q?

15:53:08 [tidoust]

... Chris Little wanted to use it in some context.

15:53:12 [jtandy]

Ack marqh

15:54:27 [tidoust]

marqh: I would like to put my hand up. There are some strong reasons from a company perspective. Right now, there's a chicken and egg issue for me to get involved.

15:54:33 [tidoust]

... But I'm happy to stand up in principle.

15:54:54 [tidoust]

... [Talking about implementations for OGC and ISO]

15:55:15 [tidoust]

... With the caveat that I may pull the plug at any moment, I'm happy to stand up.

15:55:30 [tidoust]

jtandy: I'm content with that. We're talking about investigating here.

15:56:55 [tidoust]

... In order to get the ball rolling on that. Can you draft a bit of text and create an issue in the Strategy funnel?

15:57:09 [tidoust]

marqh: Yes, I'll draft something and we can take it for there.

15:57:10 [PeterR]

+1

15:57:13 [MichaelGordon]

+1

15:57:17 [brinkwoman]

strategy funnel is here: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/projects/2

15:57:31 [tidoust]

PROPOSAL: Put CoverageJSON at Investigation phase in the Strategy funnel

15:57:33 [tidoust]

+1

15:57:34 [jtandy]

+1

15:57:35 [ClemensPortele]

+1

15:57:36 [PeterR]

+1

15:57:37 [Rob_Smith]

+1

15:57:38 [brinkwoman]

+1

15:57:38 [eparsons]

+1

15:57:39 [josephab_]

+1

15:57:41 [MichaelGordon]

+1

15:57:45 [tidoust]

RESOLUTION: Put CoverageJSON at Investigation phase in the Strategy funnel

15:58:05 [tidoust]

jtandy: Anything that people want to put in the funnel?

15:58:14 [tidoust]

[none heard]

15:59:10 [PeterR]

scribe: Peter Rushforth

15:59:12 [tidoust]

Topic: Statistical Data on the Web

15:59:17 [PeterR]

scribe: PeterR

15:59:29 [ClemensPortele]

scribenick: PeterR

16:00:27 [PeterR]

billroberts: not much happening but will start soon

16:01:41 [PeterR]

billroberts lost momentum because of clashes of schedules, now using online method, needs someone to push it along

16:02:00 [PeterR]

billroberts idea of having concentrated date for sdwig focus is good plan

16:02:39 [PeterR]

billroberts: had a chat with encoding

16:03:12 [PeterR]

billroberts: UN stuff. will stay in touch with ... to ensure other initiatives stay coordinated

16:03:29 [jtandy]

s/encoding/Ian Coady/

16:03:38 [brinkwoman]

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16:03:45 [PeterR]

billroberts: reg contributors will start to contribute over next month or two

16:03:46 [jtandy]

Q?

16:04:11 [brinkwoman]

s/encoding/Ian Coady/

16:04:39 [PeterR]

billroberts: UNGGIM update on Monday. thanks)

16:05:02 [PeterR]

jtandy: ONS uk wants to get involved in this activity

16:05:55 [PeterR]

michaelgordon: last year we sponsored; ONS was asked to get involved;

16:06:13 [PeterR]

jtandy: is there any help needed to get ONS more engaged?

16:06:50 [jtandy]

Q?

16:06:51 [PeterR]

billroberts: Michael and me to keep contacts warm. all sound enthusiastic, but need to keep prodding to get more activity

16:07:21 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: i'll give denise a nudge. she's on/off unggim stuff;

16:07:48 [PeterR]

jtandy: is there a stats SWG? yes in OGC, by Ian

16:07:59 [jtandy]

s/SWG/DWG/

16:08:01 [PeterR]

billroberts: i've been talking to ian about that.

16:08:08 [marqh]

q+

16:09:04 [PeterR]

jtandy: sdwig to ensure linkages between OGC and W3C.

16:09:28 [PeterR]

jtandy: need to find body of workers to help move stuff on

16:09:33 [jtandy]

Q?

16:09:42 [jtandy]

Ack marqh

16:09:52 [marqh]

https://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=79320

16:10:30 [PeterR]

marqh: comment: draft charter for stats domain wg was explicitly discussed at last ogc tc,although no project in portal yet; doc in pending

16:10:53 [PeterR]

marqh: underneath tech committee in pending documents

16:11:09 [PeterR]

jtandy: any comments? bill: any more coments or requests?

16:11:19 [PeterR]

billroberts: not for now, will follow up online

16:12:11 [PeterR]

jtandy: ogc interest group project page on github; focus days first week of each month, communicate intensively

16:12:42 [PeterR]

jtandy: bill did you see the sdwig projects on github? no... not yet.

16:13:58 [PeterR]

jtandy: what we talked about yesterday. you'll find your project down at the bottom, it is actually #2 in list. please edit the description and link to any work

16:14:16 [PeterR]

jtandy: identify hot topics for focus days.

16:15:03 [PeterR]

jtandy: in the project you can see cards / kanban style. as we come up to focus days we can see what you want help on.

16:15:10 [PeterR]

jtandy: thank you bill.

16:15:21 [PeterR]

billroberts: i will fill this in

16:15:40 [PeterR]

jtandy: take the moving objects item will take a small amount of time

16:15:47 [tidoust]

Topic: Describing moving objects

16:15:57 [PeterR]

jtandy: next topic # describing moving objects

16:16:16 [PeterR]

Topic: describing moving objects

16:16:35 [PeterR]

jtandy: no input from jano

16:17:02 [PeterR]

jtandy: is this important enough to do something right now?

16:17:17 [Rob_Smith]

q+

16:17:24 [PeterR]

jtandy: ok to leave it at pending, but need to get jano to indicate

16:17:27 [jtandy]

Ack Rob_Smith

16:18:01 [PeterR]

rob_smith: moving objects is of interest to me, sad to see; it could be relevant to webvmt. understand the need to put it off.

16:18:40 [PeterR]

jtandY: rob would you take an action to poke jano via the mailing list?

16:18:48 [PeterR]

rob_smith: yes

16:19:07 [PeterR]

jtandy: anymore about moving objects/.? no

16:19:26 [PeterR]

10 minute break

16:19:59 [jtandy]

s/10/15/

16:20:02 [PeterR]

yes, we will and send to you

16:22:19 [Rob_Smith]

I'm interested in a copy too for social media. Thanks

16:36:40 [PeterR]

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16:36:58 [PeterR]

scribe: Peter Rushforth

16:37:06 [PeterR]

scribenick: PeterR

16:37:28 [eparsons]

eparsons has joined #sdw

16:38:32 [tidoust]

RRSAgent, draft minutes v2

16:38:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/06-sdw-minutes.html tidoust

16:39:22 [PeterR]

Topic: Time Ontology amendments

16:39:52 [PeterR]

topic: spatial data on the web best practices

16:40:06 [PeterR]

will take time ontology after

16:40:33 [jtandy]

jtandy has joined #sdw

16:41:20 [PeterR]

jtandy: notify Michael if you know of work that is implementing best prctcs

16:41:35 [PeterR]

MichealGordon: review of what has happened

16:41:43 [jtandy]

s/prctcs/practices

16:42:31 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: maintenance activity. Best Practices in Practice first draft complete

16:42:36 [Rob_Smith]

Thanks

16:42:56 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: used in evolution of OWS in OGC

16:43:56 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: first draft of best practices in practice provides quick links across examples in best practices

16:44:31 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: have found unnumbered examples in the bp document.

16:44:43 [josephab_]

q+

16:45:02 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: added details from...

16:45:21 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: API for GNAP

16:45:56 [PeterR]

josephab_: final URI to be available in July; will have 13/14 best practices implemented.

16:46:16 [PeterR]

josephab_: don't have a paid use case for the final example

16:46:30 [ClemensPortele]

q+

16:46:36 [josephab_]

s/paid/commercial

16:46:52 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: looking for more examples; have a place to put this stuff eventually pull into best practices, examples of implementation

16:47:15 [josephab_]

s/GNAP/GNAF

16:47:43 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: some best practices don't have examples

16:48:35 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: no actual maintenance has been done

16:49:16 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: examples not in HTML. Can't link to best practices without ids.

16:49:45 [tidoust]

[Right, ReSpec does not support numbering of examples out of the box, IIRC]

16:50:06 [PeterR]

jtandy: as ex-editor recommend pull request, then merging those in. Change history should be updated.

16:51:32 [PeterR]

josephab_: pull request, on overall thing for the group. for individual work items, Michael is in charge of that resource, we prefer a pull request rather than a direct commit.

16:52:18 [PeterR]

Yes we did!

16:52:39 [jtandy]

s/Yes we did!//

16:53:10 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: other topic is in next 6 mo, what is intended outcome?

16:53:27 [josephab_]

@tidoust: will have it your way shortly

16:53:31 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: adoption activities

16:54:03 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: if there are gaps please advise

16:54:31 [PeterR]

edparsons: write a report based on examples that we found, these are the impacts that the bp paper has had.

16:54:54 [PeterR]

edparsons: to get to a quantitative measurment of what impact has had

16:55:12 [PeterR]

jtandy: who would write?

16:55:29 [PeterR]

edparsons: perhaps reach out to one of the trade magazines

16:56:10 [PeterR]

jtandy: MichaelGordon, can you take this under advisement?

16:56:18 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: yes

16:57:04 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: have 14 best practices, then tiny examples in there. what would be more helpful,might be to take wfs3 implementation report

16:57:45 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: describe what best practices are implemented, what aren't. one markdown page per implementation. easier than tiny examples

16:59:01 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: similar to doc I wrote for INSPIRE. That's one other thing for discussion, we may be extending data on the web best practices.

16:59:37 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: 50 best practices is very hard to read. stick to our project for now.

16:59:54 [PeterR]

edparsons: hot topic influence by best practices

17:00:16 [brinkwoman]

q+

17:00:25 [PeterR]

jtandy: tricky to tell whether would have happened anyway.

17:00:43 [brinkwoman]

This is sort of an 'implementation report' from the Dutch geoportal PDOK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_itsV7vgotV61eYycDYrcAi5hD0q9mSB4U58gDrMrqU/edit?usp=sharing

17:00:44 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: I waited until bp was available to submit change request.

17:01:10 [jtandy]

Q?

17:01:11 [ClemensPortele]

q-

17:01:58 [PeterR]

joshephab_: i chaired research program that had its work reviewed against sdwbp. Looked at gaps, we thought the user community needed this

17:02:29 [PeterR]

josephab_: conformance / non-conformance criteria, and impact for each project

17:02:44 [jtandy]

Q?

17:02:53 [jtandy]

Ack brinkwoman

17:03:02 [jtandy]

Ack josephab_

17:03:46 [PeterR]

brinkwoman: put link in irc above to geoportal in NL report quickly gives overview.

17:04:16 [jtandy]

Q?

17:05:35 [PeterR]

jtandy: trying to encourage more people to be web-friendly content (slightly subjective) but often see publishing playbook these days

17:06:24 [PeterR]

jtandy: if you start here, and follow this tutorial, you will come out with web-friendly result. don't suggest to randomly pick a scenario, could use what you did to make that into a playbook

17:06:56 [jtandy]

Q?

17:07:53 [PeterR]

jtandy: it might be challenging to write, but if we want to encourage people to follow the best practices we could give examples of how to do that

17:08:12 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: ER are not playbook style

17:08:43 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: target audience

17:08:57 [PeterR]

edparsons: SDI cookbook was quite influential

17:09:26 [PeterR]

edparsons: that content is obsolete but the method is what you are talking about

17:09:41 [eparsons]

http://gsdiassociation.org/images/publications/cookbooks/SDI_Cookbook_GSDI_2004_ver2.pdf

17:10:09 [PeterR]

PeterR: here is the spreadsheet of how MapML responds to sdwbp https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/1024

17:10:46 [PeterR]

joshephab_: could provide retrospective look

17:11:18 [PeterR]

jtandy: Clemens talked about engineering report, is kind of like the case study idea.

17:11:29 [jtandy]

Q?

17:11:57 [brinkwoman]

q+

17:12:03 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: need a template, not too many; implementation reports have tick boxes

17:12:31 [brinkwoman]

https://guides.github.com/activities/hello-world/

17:12:42 [PeterR]

brinkwoman: as example of cookbook, like the github guide see above link

17:13:38 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: the github example is easier than sdwbp cookbook, because of the tool nature

17:13:54 [PeterR]

brinkwoman: helps newcomers with getting started

17:14:23 [PeterR]

jtandy: more comments for Michael?

17:14:42 [brinkwoman]

ack brinkwoman

17:15:23 [PeterR]

jtandy: bp project needs to be updated

17:15:53 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: have a good chunk of work there

17:15:55 [jtandy]

Q?

17:16:15 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: gaps is a separate project; more important to focus on outreach and communication

17:16:17 [jtandy]

Q+ to ask about DXWG

17:16:29 [brinkwoman]

+1 to clemes

17:16:36 [brinkwoman]

s/clemes/clemens/

17:16:56 [brinkwoman]

ack jtandy

17:16:56 [Zakim]

jtandy, you wanted to ask about DXWG

17:17:23 [PeterR]

jtandy: dxwg might use content profile negotiation

17:17:48 [PeterR]

jtandy: no issue associated, useful to create a ticket linkage to dxwg

17:18:27 [PeterR]

jtandy: where are we going to publish and how to drive people to read

17:18:32 [brinkwoman]

q+

17:18:52 [ClemensPortele]

q+

17:19:14 [PeterR]

MichaelGordon: if we end up with different artifacts that will help people implement, might need an overarching resource to direct people

17:19:45 [PeterR]

jtandy: 3 things of poss. interest: use of press releases when we have useful stuff from w3c and ogc

17:20:37 [PeterR]

jtandy: occurs that fit / no-fit e.g. unggim is a place where we try to get people to publish geo data, is there an inroad to unggim to understand

17:20:55 [PeterR]

group: yes

17:21:16 [jtandy]

Q?

17:21:25 [PeterR]

jtandy: visible part is the document thats published, the conversations that need to be had are the real workj

17:21:41 [jtandy]

Ack brinkwoman

17:22:40 [PeterR]

brinkwoman: geonovum is planning event to maximize SDI, in Amherstfoort (sp?). Invite help to contribute.

17:23:09 [jtandy]

Ack ClemensPortele

17:23:28 [ClemensPortele]

https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/

17:23:38 [brinkwoman]

SDI.Next, oct 31 in the Netherlands, probably Amersfoort

17:23:57 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: how w3c does implementation reports is links in document. they have link to github repo with implementations listed.

17:24:20 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: eventually could create something more shiny, turn over to a journalist eventually.

17:24:37 [PeterR]

ClemensPortele: update note to add implementation reports

17:24:44 [jtandy]

Q?

17:25:16 [eparsons]

scribe: eparsons

17:25:30 [eparsons]

scribenick: eparsons

17:26:10 [eparsons]

RRSAgent, draft minutes v2

17:26:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/06-sdw-minutes.html eparsons

17:29:23 [eparsons]

jtandy: Unable to locate Chris

17:29:24 [jtandy]

Q?

17:29:53 [eparsons]

Topic : Time Ontology Amendment

17:30:13 [eparsons]

jtandy: From Chris one issue identified and fixed

17:30:26 [eparsons]

tidoust: confirmed

17:30:54 [eparsons]

jtandy: Another issue re unix time not really an issue

17:32:47 [eparsons]

brinkwoman: issue 987 covered by dr-shorthair in Git, already in owl time widely used - however issue raised has merit

17:33:14 [eparsons]

brinkwoman: Replace schema data type with new data type in owl

17:33:48 [eparsons]

jtandy: Is feedback expected ?

17:34:20 [billroberts]

billroberts has joined #sdw

17:34:25 [eparsons]

ClemensPortele: No proposal is on the table to resolve the issue

17:35:24 [eparsons]

jtandy: Is something broken or is this a purist problem ?

17:36:23 [eparsons]

jtandy: Need dr-shorthair feedback as to the impact of changing the spec ?

17:37:16 [eparsons]

ClemensPortele: Would a bugfix be compatible with current version

17:37:56 [eparsons]

jtandy: Can we add this discussion to the issue

17:38:04 [eparsons]

tidoust: Yes will do

17:39:02 [eparsons]

Topic : Pending items/ANOB

17:39:16 [ClemensPortele]

s/ANOB/AOB/

17:39:20 [Rob_Smith]

q+

17:39:22 [eparsons]

jtandy: Anything we have not talked about ?

17:39:32 [jtandy]

Ack Rob_Smith

17:40:00 [eparsons]

Rob_Smith: GPX forum chat on new version of GPX - GPXv2

17:40:21 [eparsons]

Rob_Smith: Suggested to get in touch with tidoust

17:40:56 [Rob_Smith]

Dan Foster

17:41:29 [eparsons]

jtandy: GPX id'd as a de facto standard

17:41:50 [eparsons]

tidoust: No contact yet ... what did he want to achieve ?

17:42:25 [eparsons]

Rob_Smith: GPX predates wearable tech etc - needs update

17:43:20 [eparsons]

Rob_Smith: Suggested w3c would be good forum to talk about it

17:43:42 [eparsons]

Rob_Smith: GPX has mistakes never corrected

17:44:04 [jtandy]

Q?

17:44:20 [eparsons]

brinkwoman: TPAC ?

17:44:31 [eparsons]

brinkwoman: Logistics - days etc

17:45:53 [eparsons]

tidoust: Thurs/Fri scheduled but same as data exchange so may move to Monday/Tuesday

17:46:05 [eparsons]

jtandy: Last week of October

17:46:11 [eparsons]

jtandy: Lyon

17:46:45 [eparsons]

https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/

17:47:11 [eparsons]

tidoust: Promises Good Food !!

17:47:40 [eparsons]

brinkwoman: May want to organise Wednesday meetings

17:48:05 [eparsons]

PeterR: Too Late to Organise CG Meeting ?

17:48:10 [eparsons]

tidoust: Maybe...

17:48:34 [eparsons]

PeterR: Want to talk to browser devs

17:48:45 [jtandy]

Q?

17:48:45 [eparsons]

jtandy: Wednesday best day for that...

17:48:55 [tidoust]

[FYI, there seems to be a couple of slots left for CG meetings on Friday]

17:49:20 [eparsons]

jtandy: Thanks Everyone !!!!

17:49:48 [eparsons]

jtandy: Always room to improve meeting - let jtandy and brinkwoman know

17:50:25 [eparsons]

jtandy: Meeting Closed

17:50:42 [eparsons]

RRSAgent, draft minutes v2

17:50:42 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/06/06-sdw-minutes.html eparsons

17:52:13 [eparsons]

Bye all

18:14:15 [jtandy]

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