IRC log of dxwgdcat on 2018-05-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

08:12:19 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-irc
08:12:39 [SimonCox]
Meeting: DCAT sub-group 2018-05-31
08:22:13 [SimonCox]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.05.31
08:22:40 [PWinstanley]
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08:23:12 [SimonCox]
regrets: Lars
08:25:00 [SimonCox]
present+
08:25:07 [SimonCox]
chair: SimonCox
08:26:50 [PWinstanley]
present+
08:26:57 [SimonCox]
Webex https://csiro.webex.com/csiro/j.php?MTID=m90c9cd8d1e6b406fe4b68e5cf0c09d78
08:28:14 [roba]
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08:29:26 [roba]
present+
08:35:59 [arminhaller]
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08:37:20 [arminhaller]
present+
08:39:44 [AndreaPerego]
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08:39:51 [AndreaPerego]
present+ AndreaPerego
08:41:09 [SimonCox]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.05.31
08:41:11 [riccardoAlbertoni]
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08:41:43 [SimonCox]
scribenick: arminhaller
08:41:59 [SimonCox]
topic: confirm agenda
08:42:10 [PWinstanley]
regrets+ Makx, Alejandra, DaveB
08:42:42 [SimonCox]
insert briefing from from roba and nick
08:42:46 [AndreaPerego]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.05.31
08:42:57 [SimonCox]
topic: Approve minutes from last meeting – https://www.w3.org/2018/05/24-dxwgdcat-minutes
08:43:00 [AndreaPerego]
+1
08:43:06 [SimonCox]
+1
08:43:10 [PWinstanley]
0 - not there
08:43:14 [riccardoAlbertoni]
present+
08:43:15 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1
08:43:22 [roba]
+1
08:43:24 [arminhaller]
0 (missed it, conflicting meeting)
08:43:29 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, make logs world
08:43:31 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
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08:43:35 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
08:43:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
08:44:06 [SimonCox]
resolved: minutes of last meeting approved
08:44:08 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
present+
08:44:22 [SimonCox]
topic: Need a volunteer to do analysis of national DCAT-AP profiles to verify that all added classes are on our agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2018May/0401.html
08:44:55 [AndreaPerego]
q+
08:45:00 [roba]
q+
08:45:01 [SimonCox]
ack AndreaPerego
08:45:37 [arminhaller]
AndreaPerego: Max was in charge of the work of an analysis of the adoption of DCAT-AP
08:45:52 [arminhaller]
... i can help as well, but it depends on how much work that would entail
08:46:16 [SimonCox]
action: AndreaPerego to check if Makx is available
08:46:57 [SimonCox]
ack roba
08:47:12 [arminhaller]
roba: At yesterday's plenary meeting I prepared a use case around DCAT-AP
08:47:51 [AndreaPerego]
About the report on the use of DCAT-AP (that may be used as a starting point for a comparative analysis of national implementations): https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/document/report-dcat-ap-use
08:47:56 [arminhaller]
... glaring obvious omission in the use cases and requirements IMHO
08:48:13 [arminhaller]
... Phil Archer pointed to Stijn as a potential contributor
08:48:43 [SimonCox]
q?
08:48:58 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
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08:49:02 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
present+
08:49:15 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
I am sorry for being late!
08:49:20 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
happy to contribute to the analysis
08:49:42 [SimonCox]
topic: roba & nick to brief on profiledesc work
08:50:16 [arminhaller]
roba: Developed a new alignment file
08:50:40 [arminhaller]
... matches the example of best practice of cataloging that Max gave in the F2F
08:50:55 [SimonCox]
See https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/profiledesc_dcat_alignment.ttl
08:51:24 [AndreaPerego]
Again about DCAT-AP national extensions, this study could be even more relevant: https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/document/national-extensions-analysis-dcat-ap
08:51:34 [arminhaller]
... also made some small changes the profiledesc vocabulary
08:51:34 [SimonCox]
required some tweaks to https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/profiledesc.ttl
08:51:53 [AndreaPerego]
... and maybe this one as well: https://datos.gob.es/sites/default/files/doc/file/report_dcat-ap_and_its_extensions.pdf
08:52:03 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
08:52:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
08:52:23 [arminhaller]
... Nick did some work on updating the examples and put in some normative resource pointers
08:52:44 [arminhaller]
... request the DCAT-AP experts to validate the examples
08:52:53 [SimonCox]
Examples https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/tree/gh-pages/profiledesc/examples
08:53:22 [SimonCox]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/examples/profiledesc_examples.ttl
08:53:32 [SimonCox]
and https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/examples/eg_dcat-ap2.png
08:53:53 [NicholasCar]
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08:54:01 [PWinstanley]
https://ec.europa.eu/isa2/solutions/dcat-application-profile-data-portals-europe_en
08:54:19 [roba]
https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/examples/profiledesc_examples.ttl
08:54:25 [SimonCox]
in particular check these URIs <https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/rdf_entity/http_e_f_fdata_ceuropa_ceu_fw21_f6f27f059_bf785_b4d7d_bb602_b6448aab73bd5>
08:54:51 [AndreaPerego]
I can send you the "official" URIs for DCAT-AP etc.
08:55:02 [arminhaller]
SimonCox: You used a subclass from the new DCAT:resource
08:55:17 [arminhaller]
s/DCAT/dcat
08:55:26 [SimonCox]
q?
08:55:29 [AndreaPerego]
q+
08:55:57 [SimonCox]
q?
08:56:04 [SimonCox]
ack AndreaPerego
08:56:14 [arminhaller]
Nick: you will be able to get distributions through content negotiations in this proposal
08:56:27 [AndreaPerego]
https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat-2/#bib-DCAT-AP
08:56:30 [arminhaller]
AndreaPerego: The URIs are included in the reference
08:56:47 [SimonCox]
look at https://www.specref.org/
08:56:48 [AndreaPerego]
https://www.specref.org/?q=dcat-ap
08:57:04 [PWinstanley]
https://www.difi.no/fagomrader-og-tjenester/digitalisering-og-samordning/standarder/standarder/dcatdata-catalog-vocabulary
08:57:39 [PWinstanley]
https://doc.difi.no/dcat-ap-no/
08:57:39 [AndreaPerego]
Namespaces for DCAT-AP etc.: http://data.europa.eu/URI.html
08:57:49 [AndreaPerego]
GeoDCAT-AP - data.europa.eu/930/
08:58:01 [AndreaPerego]
DCAT-AP - data.europa.eu/r5r/
08:58:14 [SimonCox]
Action: AndreaPerego to assist verification of the URIs in the DCAT-AP profiledesc examples
08:58:51 [NicholasCar]
Here're the examples in HTML
08:58:53 [NicholasCar]
https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/profiledesc/examples/
08:59:04 [arminhaller]
AndreaPerego: Is there are relationships between different versions of DCAT-AP's?
08:59:24 [PWinstanley]
https://github.com/difi/dcat-ap-no/issues
09:00:13 [arminhaller]
roba: Versioning in general would be a different type of relationship. dcat:revision to be a backward compatible, i.e. original DCAT would become a profile of the new DCAT
09:00:34 [arminhaller]
s/to be a/to be
09:01:10 [arminhaller]
AndreaPerego: I am not sure if these two relations can be modelled with the same relationship type.
09:01:30 [arminhaller]
roba: Suggest to remove the versioning example.
09:02:38 [SimonCox]
q?
09:03:44 [arminhaller]
SimonCox: All of the conversation was about the relationships between versioning and resources.
09:04:09 [arminhaller]
... most of that will be covered in the profile work item.
09:04:18 [SimonCox]
topic: Discussion of priorities and actions
09:04:26 [roba]
* Nick - we should split the version example into a separate file, with a more exploratory status...
09:05:09 [arminhaller]
SimonCox: Most of the discussion on the mailing list recently has been on the profile discussion, rather than on DCAT itself
09:05:15 [SimonCox]
maybe look here https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestones
09:06:10 [SimonCox]
q?
09:06:13 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+q
09:06:19 [arminhaller]
SimonCox: This should give us some view on what areas need some work.
09:06:24 [SimonCox]
ack riccardoAlbertoni
09:06:59 [arminhaller]
riccardoAlbertoni: I have added an issue on Quality in DCAT.
09:08:09 [SimonCox]
suggestion: relationships between resources (including datasets, profiles)
09:08:28 [SimonCox]
related to versioning
09:08:35 [arminhaller]
SimonCox: I know that you nick were interested in qualified relationships in general.
09:08:36 [SimonCox]
related to partonomy
09:08:57 [SimonCox]
q?
09:09:05 [NicholasCar]
q+
09:09:10 [SimonCox]
ack NicholasCar
09:09:26 [arminhaller]
NicholasCar: I am keen to do some work with qualified relations.
09:09:43 [arminhaller]
... introduce some modelling patterns from some other W3C working groups/
09:09:46 [AndreaPerego]
q+
09:10:53 [SimonCox]
qualified forms works for agent relations, dataset relationships, versioning relationships, using code-list for role of relationship
09:10:58 [SimonCox]
ack AndreaPerego
09:11:18 [AndreaPerego]
I included some examples here: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/wiki/Provenance-patterns
09:11:26 [arminhaller]
AndreaPerego: I added some examples on qualified and non-qualified forms on the wiki page
09:11:38 [riccardoAlbertoni]
s/I have added an issue on Quality in DCAT./I have added an milestone on Quality in DCAT collecting two issues.
09:11:39 [arminhaller]
... they are taken from the use cases
09:12:46 [arminhaller]
... we ended up using the PROV ontology, and we validated the use of PROV with the working group members
09:13:23 [SimonCox]
q?
09:13:24 [arminhaller]
... they did not use a specific relation that is in PROV, i.e. hadRole themselves
09:13:26 [SimonCox]
q+
09:13:27 [NicholasCar]
q+
09:13:40 [SimonCox]
ack SimonCox
09:13:49 [arminhaller]
... so it would be worth checking with the PROV people on the examples
09:14:28 [arminhaller]
SimonCox: Are these qualified relations changing the DCAT vocabulary, or are they just best practices how to use the vocabulary in combination with other vocabularies
09:14:59 [arminhaller]
AndreaPerego: Yes, we don't need to add anything. We just recommend how properties can be used in qualified relations using the PROV ontology
09:15:43 [SimonCox]
... look at PROV mappings to DC as exemplars?
09:15:52 [arminhaller]
... we have already a good starting point from the PROV working group where they proposed examples on how to use Dublin Core with PROV
09:16:38 [roba]
q+
09:16:42 [arminhaller]
... just guidance on how to use the PROV ontology to qualify resources
09:16:45 [SimonCox]
ack NicholasCar
09:17:05 [arminhaller]
NicholasCar: The examples with agent role is just an easy one, but the real one would be around Datasets and Distributions
09:17:08 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:17:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:17:18 [SimonCox]
NicholasCar: real target of qualified form is dataset-dataset relations, ...
09:17:47 [AndreaPerego]
q+
09:17:56 [arminhaller]
... we have done some thinking in the RDA working group how to do that, i.e. model the Dataset as a prov:entity
09:17:59 [SimonCox]
... dataset a prov:Entity !
09:18:24 [SimonCox]
ack AndreaPerego
09:18:26 [NicholasCar]
q-
09:19:28 [arminhaller]
AndreaPerego: Another example besides roles, are use cases around the funding source, i.e. context of the dataset creation
09:19:52 [arminhaller]
... especially with scientific datasets
09:19:57 [SimonCox]
1. agent roles
09:20:03 [SimonCox]
2. dataset-relations
09:20:07 [SimonCox]
3. dataset context
09:20:28 [AndreaPerego]
+1
09:20:32 [NicholasCar]
yes
09:20:33 [SimonCox]
q?
09:20:45 [SimonCox]
ack roba
09:21:08 [arminhaller]
roba: what is the method to hand this over to the guidance group?
09:21:23 [riccardoAlbertoni]
+1 to have more guidance in dcat document
09:21:36 [arminhaller]
SimonCox: My assumption is that the DCAT document needs to include more documentation, guidance and examples.
09:21:48 [arminhaller]
... expectation is that we have more example in the document.
09:22:05 [AndreaPerego]
Indeed, the lack of examples in DCAT 1.0 has always been an issue.
09:22:10 [arminhaller]
... preference is that the document becomes more guiding rather than just a spec
09:22:57 [arminhaller]
... however, guidance around application profiles will be in other documents rather than in the DCAT spec
09:23:55 [roba]
+1
09:25:10 [NicholasCar]
+1
09:25:17 [NicholasCar]
no
09:25:19 [NicholasCar]
q+
09:25:25 [arminhaller]
SimonCox: All PROV relations are dealing with change. They do not include static relations.
09:25:28 [SimonCox]
ack NicholasCar
09:25:57 [arminhaller]
NicholasCar: I have not looked into non-PROV qualified relations that we can include
09:26:34 [SimonCox]
qualifiedAttribution can support static relations!
09:26:37 [arminhaller]
... qualified attribution pattern is something that we need to include
09:26:57 [arminhaller]
... and can include static relations
09:27:41 [AndreaPerego]
I can help for sure, but don't have time for being in charge of it.
09:27:44 [NicholasCar]
seriously injured child, must go
09:28:13 [AndreaPerego]
Sorry to hear that, Nick.
09:28:28 [SimonCox]
action: SimonCox to coordinate qualified relations topics
09:28:51 [SimonCox]
q?
09:29:33 [riccardoAlbertoni]
q+
09:29:40 [riccardoAlbertoni]
q-
09:29:42 [AndreaPerego]
q+
09:29:43 [SimonCox]
ack riccardoAlbertoni
09:29:59 [SimonCox]
ack AndreaPerego
09:30:32 [arminhaller]
AndreaPerego: Qualified relations will also help with the quality modelling
09:30:43 [riccardoAlbertoni]
yes
09:30:58 [riccardoAlbertoni]
it is probably related to issue 58
09:31:46 [roba]
bye
09:31:48 [riccardoAlbertoni]
byee
09:31:50 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
thanks all
09:31:56 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
bye!
09:32:03 [SimonCox]
rrsagent draft minutes v2
09:32:04 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
present-
09:32:14 [AndreaPerego]
[meeting adjourned]
09:32:19 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:32:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:34:34 [AndreaPerego]
s/rrsagent draft minutes v2//
09:34:36 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:34:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
11:59:40 [Zakim]
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