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08:12:39 <SimonCox> Meeting: DCAT sub-group 2018-05-31
08:22:13 <SimonCox> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.05.31
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08:23:12 <SimonCox> regrets: Lars
08:25:00 <SimonCox> present+
08:25:07 <SimonCox> chair: SimonCox
08:26:50 <PWinstanley> present+
08:26:57 <SimonCox> Webex https://csiro.webex.com/csiro/j.php?MTID=m90c9cd8d1e6b406fe4b68e5cf0c09d78
08:28:14 <roba> roba has joined #dxwgdcat
08:29:26 <roba> present+
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08:37:20 <arminhaller> present+
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08:39:51 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
08:41:09 <SimonCox> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.05.31
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08:41:43 <SimonCox> scribenick: arminhaller
08:41:59 <SimonCox> topic: confirm agenda
08:42:10 <PWinstanley> regrets+ Makx, Alejandra, DaveB
08:42:42 <SimonCox> insert briefing from from roba and nick
08:42:46 <AndreaPerego> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.05.31
08:42:57 <SimonCox> topic: Approve minutes from last meeting – https://www.w3.org/2018/05/24-dxwgdcat-minutes
08:43:00 <AndreaPerego> +1
08:43:06 <SimonCox> +1
08:43:10 <PWinstanley> 0 - not there
08:43:14 <riccardoAlbertoni> present+
08:43:15 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1
08:43:22 <roba> +1
08:43:24 <arminhaller> 0 (missed it, conflicting meeting)
08:43:29 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, make logs world
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08:43:35 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
08:43:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
08:44:06 <SimonCox> resolved: minutes of last meeting approved
08:44:08 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> present+
08:44:22 <SimonCox> topic: Need a volunteer to do analysis of national DCAT-AP profiles to verify that all added classes are on our agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dxwg-wg/2018May/0401.html
08:44:55 <AndreaPerego> q+
08:45:00 <roba> q+
08:45:01 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
08:45:37 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: Max was in charge of the work of an analysis of the adoption of DCAT-AP
08:45:52 <arminhaller> ... i can help as well, but it depends on how much work that would entail
08:46:16 <SimonCox> action: AndreaPerego to check if Makx is available
08:46:57 <SimonCox> ack roba
08:47:12 <arminhaller> roba: At yesterday's plenary meeting I prepared a use case around DCAT-AP
08:47:51 <AndreaPerego> About the report on the use of DCAT-AP (that may be used as a starting point for a comparative analysis of national implementations): https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/document/report-dcat-ap-use
08:47:56 <arminhaller> ... glaring obvious omission in the use cases and requirements IMHO
08:48:13 <arminhaller> ... Phil Archer pointed to Stijn as a potential contributor
08:48:43 <SimonCox> q?
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08:49:02 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present+
08:49:15 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> I am sorry for being late!
08:49:20 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> happy to contribute to the analysis
08:49:42 <SimonCox> topic: roba & nick to brief on profiledesc work
08:50:16 <arminhaller> roba: Developed a new alignment file
08:50:40 <arminhaller> ... matches the example of best practice of cataloging that Max gave in the F2F
08:50:55 <SimonCox> See https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/profiledesc_dcat_alignment.ttl
08:51:24 <AndreaPerego> Again about DCAT-AP national extensions, this study could be even more relevant: https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/document/national-extensions-analysis-dcat-ap
08:51:34 <arminhaller> ... also made some small changes the profiledesc vocabulary
08:51:34 <SimonCox> required some tweaks to https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/profiledesc.ttl
08:51:53 <AndreaPerego> ... and maybe this one as well: https://datos.gob.es/sites/default/files/doc/file/report_dcat-ap_and_its_extensions.pdf
08:52:03 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
08:52:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
08:52:23 <arminhaller> ... Nick did some work on updating the examples and put in some normative resource pointers
08:52:44 <arminhaller> ... request the DCAT-AP experts to validate the examples
08:52:53 <SimonCox> Examples https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/tree/gh-pages/profiledesc/examples
08:53:22 <SimonCox> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/examples/profiledesc_examples.ttl
08:53:32 <SimonCox> and https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/examples/eg_dcat-ap2.png
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08:54:01 <PWinstanley> https://ec.europa.eu/isa2/solutions/dcat-application-profile-data-portals-europe_en
08:54:19 <roba> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/blob/gh-pages/profiledesc/examples/profiledesc_examples.ttl
08:54:25 <SimonCox> in particular check these URIs <https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/rdf_entity/http_e_f_fdata_ceuropa_ceu_fw21_f6f27f059_bf785_b4d7d_bb602_b6448aab73bd5>
08:54:51 <AndreaPerego> I can send you the "official" URIs for DCAT-AP etc.
08:55:02 <arminhaller> SimonCox: You used a subclass from the new DCAT:resource
08:55:17 <arminhaller> s/DCAT/dcat
08:55:26 <SimonCox> q?
08:55:29 <AndreaPerego> q+
08:55:57 <SimonCox> q?
08:56:04 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
08:56:14 <arminhaller> Nick: you will be able to get distributions through content negotiations in this proposal
08:56:27 <AndreaPerego> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat-2/#bib-DCAT-AP
08:56:30 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: The URIs are included in the reference
08:56:47 <SimonCox> look at https://www.specref.org/
08:56:48 <AndreaPerego> https://www.specref.org/?q=dcat-ap
08:57:04 <PWinstanley> https://www.difi.no/fagomrader-og-tjenester/digitalisering-og-samordning/standarder/standarder/dcatdata-catalog-vocabulary
08:57:39 <PWinstanley> https://doc.difi.no/dcat-ap-no/
08:57:39 <AndreaPerego> Namespaces for DCAT-AP etc.: http://data.europa.eu/URI.html
08:57:49 <AndreaPerego> GeoDCAT-AP - data.europa.eu/930/
08:58:01 <AndreaPerego> DCAT-AP - data.europa.eu/r5r/
08:58:14 <SimonCox> Action: AndreaPerego to assist verification of the URIs in the DCAT-AP profiledesc examples
08:58:51 <NicholasCar> Here're the examples in HTML
08:58:53 <NicholasCar> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/profiledesc/examples/
08:59:04 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: Is there are relationships between different versions of DCAT-AP's?
08:59:24 <PWinstanley> https://github.com/difi/dcat-ap-no/issues
09:00:13 <arminhaller> roba: Versioning in general would be a different type of relationship. dcat:revision to be a backward compatible, i.e. original DCAT would become a profile of the new DCAT
09:00:34 <arminhaller> s/to be a/to be
09:01:10 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: I am not sure if these two relations can be modelled with the same relationship type.
09:01:30 <arminhaller> roba: Suggest to remove the versioning example.
09:02:38 <SimonCox> q?
09:03:44 <arminhaller> SimonCox: All of the conversation was about the relationships between versioning and resources.
09:04:09 <arminhaller> ... most of that will be covered in the profile work item.
09:04:18 <SimonCox> topic: Discussion of priorities and actions
09:04:26 <roba> * Nick - we should split the version example into a separate file, with a more exploratory status...
09:05:09 <arminhaller> SimonCox: Most of the discussion on the mailing list recently has been on the profile discussion, rather than on DCAT itself
09:05:15 <SimonCox> maybe look here https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/milestones
09:06:10 <SimonCox> q?
09:06:13 <riccardoAlbertoni> +q
09:06:19 <arminhaller> SimonCox: This should give us some view on what areas need some work.
09:06:24 <SimonCox> ack riccardoAlbertoni
09:06:59 <arminhaller> riccardoAlbertoni: I have added an issue on Quality in DCAT.
09:08:09 <SimonCox> suggestion: relationships between resources (including datasets, profiles)
09:08:28 <SimonCox> related to versioning
09:08:35 <arminhaller> SimonCox: I know that you nick were interested in qualified relationships in general.
09:08:36 <SimonCox> related to partonomy
09:08:57 <SimonCox> q?
09:09:05 <NicholasCar> q+
09:09:10 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
09:09:26 <arminhaller> NicholasCar: I am keen to do some work with qualified relations.
09:09:43 <arminhaller> ... introduce some modelling patterns from some other W3C working groups/
09:09:46 <AndreaPerego> q+
09:10:53 <SimonCox> qualified forms works for agent relations, dataset relationships, versioning relationships, using code-list for role of relationship
09:10:58 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:11:18 <AndreaPerego> I included some examples here: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/wiki/Provenance-patterns
09:11:26 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: I added some examples on qualified and non-qualified forms on the wiki page
09:11:38 <riccardoAlbertoni> s/I have added an issue on Quality in DCAT./I have added an milestone on Quality in DCAT collecting two issues.
09:11:39 <arminhaller> ... they are taken from the use cases
09:12:46 <arminhaller> ... we ended up using the PROV ontology, and we validated the use of PROV with the working group members
09:13:23 <SimonCox> q?
09:13:24 <arminhaller> ... they did not use a specific relation that is in PROV, i.e. hadRole themselves
09:13:26 <SimonCox> q+
09:13:27 <NicholasCar> q+
09:13:40 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
09:13:49 <arminhaller> ... so it would be worth checking with the PROV people on the examples
09:14:28 <arminhaller> SimonCox: Are these qualified relations changing the DCAT vocabulary, or are they just best practices how to use the vocabulary in combination with other vocabularies
09:14:59 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: Yes, we don't need to add anything. We just recommend how properties can be used in qualified relations using the PROV ontology
09:15:43 <SimonCox> ... look at PROV mappings to DC as exemplars?
09:15:52 <arminhaller> ... we have already a good starting point from the PROV working group where they proposed examples on how to use Dublin Core with PROV
09:16:38 <roba> q+
09:16:42 <arminhaller> ... just guidance on how to use the PROV ontology to qualify resources
09:16:45 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
09:17:05 <arminhaller> NicholasCar: The examples with agent role is just an easy one, but the real one would be around Datasets and Distributions
09:17:08 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:17:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:17:18 <SimonCox> NicholasCar: real target of qualified form is dataset-dataset relations, ...
09:17:47 <AndreaPerego> q+
09:17:56 <arminhaller> ... we have done some thinking in the RDA working group how to do that, i.e. model the Dataset as a prov:entity
09:17:59 <SimonCox> ... dataset a prov:Entity !
09:18:24 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:18:26 <NicholasCar> q-
09:19:28 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: Another example besides roles, are use cases around the funding source, i.e. context of the dataset creation
09:19:52 <arminhaller> ... especially with scientific datasets
09:19:57 <SimonCox> 1. agent roles
09:20:03 <SimonCox> 2. dataset-relations
09:20:07 <SimonCox> 3. dataset context
09:20:28 <AndreaPerego> +1
09:20:32 <NicholasCar> yes
09:20:33 <SimonCox> q?
09:20:45 <SimonCox> ack roba
09:21:08 <arminhaller> roba: what is the method to hand this over to the guidance group?
09:21:23 <riccardoAlbertoni> +1 to have more  guidance in dcat document
09:21:36 <arminhaller> SimonCox: My assumption is that the DCAT document needs to include more documentation, guidance and examples.
09:21:48 <arminhaller> ... expectation is that we have more example in the document.
09:22:05 <AndreaPerego> Indeed, the lack of examples in DCAT 1.0 has always been an issue.
09:22:10 <arminhaller> ... preference is that the document becomes more guiding rather than just a spec
09:22:57 <arminhaller> ... however, guidance around application profiles will be in other documents rather than in the DCAT spec
09:23:55 <roba> +1
09:25:10 <NicholasCar> +1
09:25:17 <NicholasCar> no
09:25:19 <NicholasCar> q+
09:25:25 <arminhaller> SimonCox: All PROV relations are dealing with change. They do not include static relations.
09:25:28 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
09:25:57 <arminhaller> NicholasCar: I have not looked into non-PROV qualified relations that we can include
09:26:34 <SimonCox> qualifiedAttribution can support static relations!
09:26:37 <arminhaller> ... qualified attribution pattern is something that we need to include
09:26:57 <arminhaller> ... and can include static relations
09:27:41 <AndreaPerego> I can help for sure, but don't have time for being in charge of it.
09:27:44 <NicholasCar> seriously injured child, must go
09:28:13 <AndreaPerego> Sorry to hear that, Nick.
09:28:28 <SimonCox> action: SimonCox to coordinate qualified relations topics
09:28:51 <SimonCox> q?
09:29:33 <riccardoAlbertoni> q+
09:29:40 <riccardoAlbertoni> q-
09:29:42 <AndreaPerego> q+
09:29:43 <SimonCox> ack riccardoAlbertoni
09:29:59 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
09:30:32 <arminhaller> AndreaPerego: Qualified relations will also help with the quality modelling
09:30:43 <riccardoAlbertoni> yes
09:30:58 <riccardoAlbertoni> it is probably related to issue 58
09:31:46 <roba> bye
09:31:48 <riccardoAlbertoni> byee
09:31:50 <Stijn_Goedertier_AIV> thanks all
09:31:56 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> bye!
09:32:03 <SimonCox> rrsagent draft minutes v2
09:32:04 <Jaroslav_Pullmann> present-
09:32:14 <AndreaPerego> [meeting adjourned]
09:32:19 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:32:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
09:34:34 <AndreaPerego> s/rrsagent draft minutes v2//
09:34:36 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
09:34:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/05/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
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