<kirkwood> scribe: kirkwood

CSUN

we do official have a place in conference hotel

Andrew: we do have a place in conference hotel meetings will be from 9-5. wustions about remote access we will some type of phone
... skype or google hangouts and couple of call in numbers possbly or alistars speaker, mic. audio quality will be better

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask if we are meeting on both days (Mon & Tues)?

Andrew: meeting both Monday and Tuesdat

Tuesdat/Tuesday

Andrew: resolving comments and doing testing will be covered
... we can have call in and testing times incorporated
... thoughts around times?
... no one on que
... thoughts concerns relating to CSUN?
... don’t know where in hotel we will be

Update on 1.3.4 implementations

zakim take up next item

andrew: implementations on autofill, John do you want to share

JF: I created a wiki page

<JF> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Implementations/JF/research

JF: tracking the results, bottom line original number last week exclusive of credit card fileds, can test for credit card fields now with ssl. 30 to 40 valuse are being supported

JF 33 of 53 Chorme is about 333. interentet explorter and edge not supporting like others

JF: the support is kind of weird
... tested third party helper application lastpass premium has a form filling function
... not getting language right there are couple of inconsitancy with last pass premium
... provided screen captures in wiki
... maybe not screen reader ready
... supporting 49 of 53 values
... not sure about all token values such as IMPP
... two fields looking for transation amount and transaction currancy quite frankly couldnt be pre populated
... have one tool that supports lions share of values
... looking for second and third

LS: some of the values
... are from old methodolgy where you’ve got extension and explain in tooltip not necessarily poplate field
... make sense for purpose of controls but not auto complete
... we do have Athena extension doesn’t do autocomplete
... ATOS adds symbol and tooltip
... we have those implementation through greese monkey and another i’ve forgotten

<alastairc> Links to those items here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YiknHDDDdKBdwVTEpxwUpyCaQL_tnpp9CfDlFjCq16E/edit#

LS: the website is A11

not correct on website?

<alastairc> Do need to check we have sites that support it, and user-agents that work with those sites, I'm not sure it all ties up yet.

Andrew: this would strengthen the case if support in browser and extension and perosnlization tools

personalization/personlization

JF: i have been testing autocomplete support
... we can repurpose the attribute, I’m testing autocomplete

David: sounds very optomistic 60 to 80 percent for tokens, if we look at old list we had about 30 inputs, here we have doulbed amounts by referencing 5.2
... we are talking 30 to 60 percent support
... worth having conversation what take to go back to internal list, can we hold for a week or two to get approval. get an internal and shorter list
... we have less than ideal support want to look into going back to internal

Andrew: the question what if we have to change 1.3.4 to include an internal list. if html 5

Micael: only wat we can do is issue a new candidate recommendation

wat/way

Michael: if we do it less than 60 days befor candiedate rcommendation it impacts timeline
... questions bring issuing a CR so close to next director need to consider this
... can we get consensus to proceed, but highly risky

JF: want to push back about less than idieal support

idieal/ideal

JF: we have applications and tools that are taking that string and doing something with it
... when we define support we need to be clear about that definition as well
... looking at larger pupose to put in fixed straing in code than i think we have met that bar
... using helper applicaitons need to be sympathitic to support implementatin

Katie: first of all what options for 1.3.4 , put the tokens or terms inside the standard or do something else, my question does autocomplete get in right direction we want to go, in my mind it doesnt

LS: it doesn’t i agree
... not that it doesn’t do something though
... it does something useful but not move world towards personlization

katie: how much do we want to jump through hoops considering automcomlete is out there

automcomlete/autocomplete

katie: not sure if second bullet makes that clear
... need to go back to working groups to see how we got here
... in end we want to get to personalization piece, not sure if we should hold things up though

misstake/mistake

katie: not what we are going for. other point if we do decide we want to go back and do CR shouldn’t waste opportunity on fixing one thing
... we need to make sure other things meet consensus if we do another CR

JF: going back and looking at history, we wanted to do peronalization, we had goal to figure out how to attach metadata to these elements
... token values having a definition across all browsers and a rich tazonomy.
... break cycle having metadata so tools can support it
... you can inject personlized style sheet so its start of building out reach meta data schema. exatly same thing in COGA task force

<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask what the team feels confident about being stable over the coming months

JF: author list isn’t that hard, really like additionial meta data to be repurposed

Josh: i hear the argument of chicken and egg and hear a lot of potential

<Ryladog> there are other researched ways to associate metadata, and other accessibility metadat taxonomies that have been out there for years in the education space

Josh: like to try and make this happen, we are starting to get requests on how to make this fly. i’m understanding more and more how this would work

difficult to understand

<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to talk about "moving the world toward personalization"

Andrew: that is what we are trying to figure out
... is 1.3.4 helping, lisa your response was no but are we making progress
... if ATOS tool is using this demonstrating if helpful to move toward perosonlization
... concern is if this is doing something

LS: where it is helping, it helps people fill out forms
... it makes it much easier to fillout forms through working autocomplete. it helps. makes filling out forms easier
... in terms of moving world toward personlization the ATOS things does not support it, relatively trivial, its just more
... for us just putting in a new user profile for testing
... thats really not so much, don’t think it moves things toward personlization
... if you really need this kind of personlization you wont find the form pabe

pabe/page

LS: not convinced this will help moving forward, doesn’t mean it won’t help people filling in forms

Jason: process question it seems 1.3.4 will be difficult to support some of those token values
... the challenge raised by 1.3.5 has not been addressed
... if we find can’t be accessibility supported going to have problem with CR period if not achievable through implementation

Andrew: we are focusing on 11.3.4 but take your point

11.3.4/1.3.4

katie: just using autocomplete its two different things, finding a resource. we need to find what the user need is that we are trying to fix?
... i’m concerned about spending more itime on this
... if you want to identify purpose of controls, it will go down road of not using ARIA correctly

<jon_avila> It seems like this would help promote autocomplete. That's not a bad thing for people who have difficulty entering input. I think it provides some value and may help people different types of disabilities beyond cognitive disabilities even though it doesn't solve all of the issues.

Josh: there is a potential win there are other uses for ARIA

JF: one of things being missed is the chicken and egg problem
... through education no doubt that autocomplete is starting to help those with cognitive disabilities

<marcjohlic> +1 to JF

JF: we train our clients to help understand big picture boals. there is a lot of education that needs to happen around a small supported list of metadata tokens

<alastairc> +1, this starts a new chapter in our training materials, we haven't got non-screenreader metadata (for accessibility) yet.

<gowerm> +1

JF: why peronalization is at a point to benefit users to show how and why that is the big win

David: sounds like we are just going to move forward with this, not going to pull a sublist into standard is that right?

Andrew: I’m worried about going back to a new CR potentially taking a large amount of time

<JF> +1 to MichaelC

Andrew: if there is implementation support i’d like to see if implementation support is there for this

<Joshue108> +1 to Michael

<LisaSeemanKestenbaum> +1

Brooks: like to support david lets do it sooner rather than later if we are going to do this, there is a premium on timing
... need to take action immediately, david i support what you expressed

<alastairc> Overall, I would prefer not to refer to an external list from HTML, but I'd rather get this in for 2.1, and expand later (using the full semantics spec).

Brooks: I support what john has done

MC: need to speak from strategic not possible to do a new CR without bolowing timeline to pieces
... we know other standards body are depending on our work
... w3c is wanting faster spec development and adherence to promises
... understand frustration with tight timeline, continue to bilie to proceed with 2.1 and adress others in 2.2. draft to have iteration in devlopment
... better to go ahead and keep to timeline

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to say that *TODAY* I can show 50% support for the *native* functionality of @autocomplet, before looking at other tools that use the code-pattern that is

JF: today 50 percent of atocomplet is supported, i’m half way there

<JF> https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407168,00.asp

JF: still testing helper application to see if we can get 100 percent support
... fixed string looking at, i’m scrambling , not as dire and gloomy as others seem to think it is

Andew: if people know about other tools such as ATOS Lisa

Andrew: may be additional possiblities of one of CSS implementation on a site
... any further thoughts we should discuss on list
... John is working on this

I have been helping alittle and will help John

<laura> Scribe: Laura

Testing implementations (https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Implementations)

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Implementations

AWK: this is the wiki page
... We have a shortage of 2.1 sites
... we need 8 AA
... anyone have suggestions or leads?

Lisa: Athena may be a backup

<alastairc> We could add http://www.accessibilityassociation.org/ and hope it meets it?

MC: preferred for sites in the wild. But go ahead and do it.

awk: member sites considered in the wild.

Bruce: I may be able to sway some folks.

awk: CR blog post has some info.

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/blog/2018/01/wcag21-cr/

awk: we need more at AAA. may have one. need another.

<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2017/11/WCAG21/CR/

MC: testing tool is tempory here. making progress.
... should be ready at the end of this week.
... we have 5 weeks to do all of this testing.
... everyone should do a practice implementation in the tool.
... need a w3c account. aimed at ag wg.
... play with it. report bugs to me.

awk: were can I see what I have put in?

MC: may be a bug. will look into it.

awk: questions?

none.

awk: 2.4.11 Character Key Shortcuts have examples there.

2.4.12 Label in Name: have examples.

2.61 only one.

scribe: goes though the list.
... having trouble on some.
... would like to hear if we need more help.

chuck: working on 254 .
... challenging. don’t think I need help right now.
... anyone who want to help fine.

awk: taget size?
... any ideas for examples?

kathy: challenge media queries and screen width.
... maybe have examples that have screen size.

awk: will need to look at different sizes.

kathy: difficult to get 44x44 at all media queries
... some are close but not quite there.
... examples are welcome.

awk: if we have AAA sites that may be an implementation.
... would be nice to have more than 2.
... 226 timeouts

MG: foucsing on a different SC

awk: ok
... hover

steve: help would be welcome for finding implementations.
... should be easy to find.

<alastairc> maybe try bootstrap, or a site based on that?

awk: anyone want to help.

brooks: what about sites behind authentication?

awk: that is a barrier.
... we need a way to surface it some way.
... we could host it on a w3c site if it had dummy data etc.

brooks: may be able to figure something out if needed.

lisa: for timeouts check coga google docs.

awk: utimately what we need to do is add sites into MC’s tool.
... then test SC or the site.
... since the tool isn’t quite ready yet. can add data to the Wiki page
... such as browsers, OS, etc.

Assigning issues

katie: am I missing anything in the testing tool?

MC: play with it. but don’t waste time in it. Report bugs.

awk: we have 23 open issues right now.
... We have CFCs on several Issues.
... we have 14 issues without anyone assiggned to them.

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/769

awk: anyone to take 769?

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/768

awk: anyone to take 768?

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues

David: I will

awk: Should SC 2.3.6's "role" be "Name, states, roles, and values" from SC 4.1.2? Or is the name of the SC wrong? #765

MG: should I add propoasl in GitHub? what is the process?

awk: add a proposed response in the issue.
... Does SC 2.5.4 need a note on completing input using a given modality? Or text in Understanding? #764
... quicker if people go in aand grab an issue or two.
... anyone want to do 765 or 764?
... John kirkwood 764
... adam are you willing to do 762?
... will assign him.
... please take a look at the list even if it is to ask a question.

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/761

chuck: looks like we should craft a proposed response in Github.

awk: yes.

<AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/758

awk: some have comments like 758.
... on the call we discuss. then issue CFC if we agree.
... no real unrecoverable errors you can make.
... anything else?
... I will be takeing the next 3 days off.
... does anyone want to meet on thursday?

josh: we can have a call or use the time for work.

<Zakim> gowerm, you wanted to say can I talk about shortcuts for a moment?

MG: responding to keyboard shortcuts issue.
... https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/769

has anyone encountered a multiple character keyboard shortcut?

awk: suggest talk to Kim Patch.

david: 1.3.4 and 3.2.6 are better under 3.3. and 4.1 respectively #768
... seems logical
... anyone have thoughts?

awk: if core intent is personalization probably fits under adaptability
... maybe develop pro's and cons. then we can decide.

<Zakim> gowerm, you wanted to say I agree that there should have been revisions to placement. Sent an email, but got no traction

MG: agree that there should have been revisions to placement. Sent an email, but got no traction.

awk: do people want to meet or not?
... will probably be the last thusrday where we don’t have a call.
... propose on the list if you want to meet.

trackbot, end meeting

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.152  of Date: 2017/02/06 11:04:15  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

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Default Present: AWK, alastairc, Laura, JF, kirkwood, Brooks, MichaelC, Kathy, Makoto, Glenda, david-macdonald, jasonjgw, Joshue108, Katie_Haritos-Shea, SteveRepsher, adam_solomon, MikeGower, LisaSeemanKestenbaum, marcjohlic
Present: AWK alastairc Laura JF kirkwood Brooks MichaelC Kathy Makoto Glenda david-macdonald jasonjgw Joshue108 Katie_Haritos-Shea SteveRepsher adam_solomon MikeGower LisaSeemanKestenbaum marcjohlic
Found Scribe: kirkwood
Inferring ScribeNick: kirkwood
Found Scribe: Laura
Inferring ScribeNick: laura
Scribes: kirkwood, Laura
ScribeNicks: kirkwood, laura
Found Date: 20 Feb 2018
People with action items: 

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