20:53:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dxwgdcat
20:53:42 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-irc
20:58:31 <SimonCox> chair: SimonCox
20:58:49 <SimonCox> regrets: JaroslavPullman
21:01:05 <SimonCox> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.02.07
21:03:51 <Simon> Simon has joined #dxwgdcat
21:04:33 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> StijnGoedertier_AIV has joined #dxwgdcat
21:04:41 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> present+
21:06:17 <SimonCox> Hi Stijm
21:06:43 <SimonCox> Doesn't seem to be anyone else here - not sure what the confusion is, I guess I made a mistake somewhere
21:07:04 <SimonCox> s/Stijm/Stijn/
21:07:11 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> 3 gave their regrets https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.02.07
21:07:29 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> Hi Simon
21:07:35 <SimonCox> Regrets:  Dave Browning, Makx Dekkers, Peter
21:08:12 <SimonCox> I'll wait 3 more minutes then we'll give up - sorry
21:09:21 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> ok, I see Andrea Perego connecting
21:09:51 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #dxwgdcat
21:12:01 <NicholasCar> NicholasCar has joined #dxwgdcat
21:14:17 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
21:14:22 <NicholasCar> present+
21:14:33 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> regrets: Jaroslav Pullmann
21:14:50 <AndreaPerego> scribe: AndreaPerego
21:14:55 <AndreaPerego> scribenick: AndreaPerego
21:14:59 <AndreaPerego> chair: SimonCox
21:15:26 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:15:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:15:56 <AndreaPerego> Topic: Approve last  week minutes
21:16:09 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes
21:16:15 <SimonCox> +1
21:16:17 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:16:29 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> +1
21:17:11 <NicholasCar> +1
21:17:25 <AndreaPerego> resolved: Last meeting minutes approved
21:17:49 <SimonCox> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/dcat/
21:18:02 <AndreaPerego> topic: Actions from last meeting
21:18:18 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: [explaining work done in GH]
21:18:30 <SimonCox> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/tree/simon-dcat-doc-issues
21:20:01 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: Relevant PR: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/102
21:20:36 <SimonCox> Use this syntax to link a document issue to GitHub issue <p class="issue" data-number="98">
21:20:49 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:20:57 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:20:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:21:19 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: This makes GH embed a link into a GH issue.
21:21:56 <AndreaPerego> regrets+ Dave Browning, Makx Dekkers, Peter
21:22:04 <AndreaPerego> topic: Review requirements
21:22:10 <SimonCox> https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Adcat+label%3Arequirement+
21:23:08 <SimonCox> Encourage people to continue reviewing tags on github issues
21:23:09 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: A few people went through the GH issues. Labelling improved a bit (good!). We are making some progress. I encourage people to work this out.
21:23:51 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: I was hoping to discuss some of these issues. Alejandra and I identified some of them.
21:23:58 <AndreaPerego> ... One is #33
21:24:04 <SimonCox>  https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/53
21:24:16 <AndreaPerego> s/#33/#53/
21:24:56 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: There's some discussion on this issue.
21:25:25 <NicholasCar> q
21:25:25 <AndreaPerego> ... My understanding is that in RDF world this means HTTP URIs.
21:25:36 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
21:26:11 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:26:21 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
21:26:59 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: main issue is that a number of other identifier systems are used for dat acitation, publishers, etc
21:27:16 <SimonCox> ... e.g. DataCite supports quite a few identifier systems
21:27:27 <SimonCox> ... DCAT-AP also discussed this at length
21:27:44 <SimonCox> ... agencies want to use their internal identifiers, not necessarily URIs
21:28:06 <SimonCox> ... may connect datasets using SPARQL queries, etc not just URIs
21:28:30 <SimonCox> ... what is needed by different communities is ability to specify different kinds of identifiers, and their *type*
21:28:45 <SimonCox> ... need to indicate that a string _is_ and identifier
21:28:51 <SimonCox> s/and/an/
21:29:26 <SimonCox> ... whenenver possible make identifiers resolvable by _encoding_ them as URIs, but this does not apply to all identifier systems
21:29:45 <SimonCox> ... situation is quite complicated
21:29:46 <SimonCox> q+
21:30:08 <SimonCox> there are some other URI systems, but not necessarily resolvable
21:30:19 <SimonCox> ... case sensitivity is also an issue
21:30:21 <NicholasCar> q+
21:30:41 <SimonCox> ... proposal made in UC is to try to address both issue
21:30:50 <SimonCox> ... 1. encode as http URIs where possible
21:31:22 <SimonCox> ... 2. encode as a string using dct:identifier property, and note the type of the identifier using ^^type indicator
21:31:51 <SimonCox> ... Makx also suggests adms:identifier
21:32:37 <SimonCox> ... UC is about _providing guidance_ where standard RDF http URI does not apply
21:32:38 <SimonCox> q-
21:32:58 <SimonCox> ... also for how to use SPARQL queries, for example
21:33:33 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
21:33:49 <AndreaPerego> NicholasCar: We had the same issue with physical samples.
21:34:08 <SimonCox> NicholasCar: similar issues with identifier off-web resources which have local/scoped identifiers
21:34:18 <AndreaPerego> ... The critical ID was the URI, since we have already other IDs as DOIs.
21:34:26 <SimonCox> ... recommendation there is to supplement identifier field with identifier-type
21:34:44 <SimonCox> ... need a comprehensive schema for alternative identifiers
21:35:08 <SimonCox> q+
21:35:18 <AndreaPerego> ... [missed]
21:35:30 <SimonCox> ack sim
21:35:34 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
21:35:51 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: Makx suggested looking at ADMS.
21:35:54 <SimonCox> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-adms/#identifier
21:36:07 <NicholasCar> It would be beneficial to have a comprehensive handling of identifiers, inc. type and other properties, as we need to use them in many situations, not just DCAT
21:36:12 <AndreaPerego> ... There's an adms:Identifier class there.
21:36:51 <NicholasCar> Yes, ADMS seems to mostly do it!
21:37:03 <AndreaPerego> ... It is based on UN/CEFACT. So, this appear that fullfills the proposal you made, AndreaPerego.
21:37:11 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:37:17 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
21:37:29 <SimonCox> Adopt or clone adms:Identifier
21:38:08 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: alternative proposals: PRISM, BIBO,
21:38:27 <SimonCox> ... specific fields for well-known identifier schemes, e.g. bibo:DOI
21:39:00 <SimonCox> ... these are already used by some important services, e.g. crossRef
21:39:23 <SimonCox> ... need to explain how these different approaches map to each other
21:39:56 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: We should drop some of this discussion in GH.
21:40:04 <SimonCox> ACTIO: SimonCox to drop identifeir discussion into GitHub issue
21:40:17 <SimonCox> ACTION: SimonCox to drop identifeir discussion into GitHub issue
21:40:17 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:40:38 <AndreaPerego> trackbot, associate this channel with #dxwg
21:40:51 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> q+ on additional guidance on the type of HTTP IRIs for a dcat:Dataset vs dcat:CatalogRecord
21:40:55 <AndreaPerego> ACTION: SimonCox to drop identifeir discussion into GitHub issue
21:40:55 <trackbot> Sorry, but no Tracker is associated with this channel.
21:41:12 <AndreaPerego> s/ACTION: SimonCox to drop identifeir discussion into GitHub issue//
21:41:15 <SimonCox> ack StijnGoedertier_AIV
21:41:15 <Zakim> StijnGoedertier_AIV, you wanted to comment on additional guidance on the type of HTTP IRIs for a dcat:Dataset vs dcat:CatalogRecord
21:41:16 <AndreaPerego> s/ACTIO: SimonCox to drop identifeir discussion into GitHub issue//
21:41:39 <NicholasCar> +q
21:41:49 <SimonCox> StijnGoedertier_AIV: use CatalogRecord as proxy for off-web resources
21:42:01 <SimonCox> ?
21:42:47 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: Could you provide a scenario?
21:42:56 <SimonCox> ack NicholasCar
21:43:58 <AndreaPerego> NicholasCar: I think the issue StijnGoedertier_AIV mentioned was about what you get from an HTTP URI - the thing, or its description thereof.
21:44:24 <AndreaPerego> StijnGoedertier_AIV: I have this doubt because of the definition of a catalogue record.
21:44:40 <AndreaPerego> q+
21:44:52 <SimonCox> ack AndreaPerego
21:45:25 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: relationship between CatalogRecord and Dataset needs clarification
21:46:18 <SimonCox> ... in the CatalogRecord can attach metadata about the metadata - e.g. who created the record, in contrast to metadata about the dataset, e.g. topic, publisher, etc
21:47:18 <SimonCox> ... is standard registry model (e.g. ISO 19135, Linked Data Registry, ISO 11179)
21:47:36 <SimonCox> ... where registration information is separate from the dataset description
21:47:50 <NicholasCar> clear to me
21:48:56 <NicholasCar> yes, I meant that two URIs for Cat. Rec. & Dataset are not used in practice, despite the DCAT option for it
21:49:13 <SimonCox> ... not sure any system actually assigns separate URIs for catalogue record and metadata entry
21:49:22 <SimonCox> q+
21:50:12 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
21:50:20 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: The Linked Data Registry actually can do that.
21:50:30 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> http://registry.it.csiro.au/
21:50:52 <SimonCox> Topic: dataset type  https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/64
21:51:31 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: There was some discussion on this.
21:51:41 <AndreaPerego> ... A number of vocabularies have been mentioned.
21:53:01 <AndreaPerego> ... Issue #95 notes that dcat:Dataset is made a subclass of dctype:Dataset, and the latter is just one of the DCType classes that could be considered as dcat:Dataset's.
21:53:27 <SimonCox>  https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/98
21:53:33 <AndreaPerego> ... So, we should probably relax this. Moreover, dctype:Dataset has a quite weak definition.
21:53:51 <NicholasCar> agreed
21:53:53 <AndreaPerego> ... The proposal is to remove the subclass axioms.
21:53:57 <AndreaPerego> +1 from me.
21:54:05 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> +1 for me as well
21:54:11 <SimonCox> +1
21:54:24 <NicholasCar> +1
21:54:55 <AndreaPerego> resolved: Drop subclass axiom from dcat:Dataset
21:55:40 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: Related issue was how to associate dct:type for soft typing.
21:56:27 <AndreaPerego> ... There's a meta-issue on whether we should use more OWL axiomatisation to specify which properties should be used for which classes.
21:56:46 <SimonCox> Should we use OWL to bind predicates to classes? https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/105
21:57:18 <SimonCox> DCAT 1.0 just says "The following properties are recommended for use on this class"
21:57:18 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: Makx and Andrea tend to support the idea of not using it.
21:57:50 <SimonCox> so just add dct:type to that list
21:58:32 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: So, this way we have more or less resolved issue #64
21:58:34 <SimonCox> with some indications of available type vocabularies
21:58:43 <SimonCox> q?
21:58:53 <AndreaPerego> +1
21:59:11 <NicholasCar> +1
21:59:11 <SimonCox> +1
21:59:12 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> +1 Makes DCAT most broadly usable
21:59:18 <NicholasCar> (no other comments)
22:00:00 <AndreaPerego> resolved: Include dct:type in the list of properties recommended for dataset
22:00:50 <AndreaPerego> resolved: Include dct:type in the list of properties recommended for dataset, list some of the type vocabularies contributed in the GH issues. This resolves issue #64
22:01:20 <NicholasCar> I have 5
22:01:31 <SimonCox> Topic: - https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/95
22:02:00 <SimonCox> AndreaPerego: domain of contactPoint is limited to Dataset
22:02:21 <SimonCox> ... so can't be re-used in other context without entailment that they are a Dataset!
22:02:49 <SimonCox> q+
22:03:18 <SimonCox> ... contactPoint is one of the most imporant roles encoded in metadata!
22:03:31 <SimonCox> ... needs to be available in many places
22:04:22 <SimonCox> ... what was it set this way???
22:04:42 <SimonCox> ack SimonCox
22:06:22 <SimonCox> +1
22:06:29 <StijnGoedertier_AIV> +1 to remove the domain restriction
22:06:32 <AndreaPerego> SimonCox: I am not very much in favour of setting domain restrictions on properties, since this reduces reusability.
22:06:33 <NicholasCar> +1
22:07:17 <AndreaPerego> StijnGoedertier_AIV: I think it is still important to have a range for interoperability purposes.
22:07:39 <AndreaPerego> relsolved: Drop domain restriction from dcat:contactPoint
22:07:41 <SimonCox> Agreed - I will generate separate issue.
22:08:07 <SimonCox> s/relsolved/resolved/
22:08:15 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minues v2
22:08:15 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minues v2', AndreaPerego.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
22:08:22 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:08:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:09:55 <AndreaPerego> meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup teleconference
22:09:57 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:09:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:10:26 <AndreaPerego> present+ SimonCox
22:10:27 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:10:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:12:24 <AndreaPerego> meeting adjourned
22:12:24 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
22:12:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:23:05 <AndreaPerego> BTW, will you be at the RDA Plenary in Berlin? I'm still not sure I can make it.
22:23:40 <AndreaPerego> s/BTW, will you be at the RDA Plenary in Berlin? I'm still not sure I can make it.//
22:24:31 <AndreaPerego> trackbot, bye
22:24:32 <trackbot> trackbot has left #dxwgdcat
22:24:42 <AndreaPerego> zakim, bye
22:24:42 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been StijnGoedertier_AIV, AndreaPerego, NicholasCar, SimonCox
22:24:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dxwgdcat
22:24:46 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, bye
22:24:46 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-actions.rdf :
22:24:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SimonCox to drop identifeir discussion into GitHub issue [1]
22:24:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-irc#T21-40-17
22:24:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: SimonCox to drop identifeir discussion into GitHub issue [2]
22:24:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2018/02/07-dxwgdcat-irc#T21-40-55