IRC log of dxwgdcat on 2018-01-31
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 20:47:19 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-irc
- 20:47:36 [SimonCox]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 20:47:53 [SimonCox]
- present+
- 20:51:30 [trackbot]
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- trackbot, associate this channel with #dxwg
- 20:56:10 [PWinstanley]
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- 21:01:40 [PWinstanley]
- present+
- 21:02:53 [NicholasCar]
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- 21:03:14 [DaveBrowning]
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- 21:04:05 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
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- 21:04:37 [alejandra]
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- 21:04:48 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
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- 21:05:01 [SimonCox]
- scribe?
- 21:05:43 [DaveBrowning]
- present+
- 21:06:01 [NicholasCar]
- present+
- 21:06:12 [SimonCox]
- https://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html
- 21:06:23 [Makx]
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- 21:06:27 [alejandra]
- present+
- 21:06:28 [SimonCox]
- scribe: Stijn_Goedertier_AIV
- 21:07:09 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- TOPIC: meeting agenda
- 21:07:26 [Makx]
- present+ Makx
- 21:07:33 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- present+
- 21:07:51 [SimonCox]
- https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.01.31
- 21:08:23 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: wants to check if everyone is OK with the items on the agenda proposed by him
- 21:08:29 [alejandra]
- there was an addition from Andrea
- 21:08:48 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: silent approval on the agenda
- 21:08:54 [SimonCox]
- https://www.w3.org/2018/01/24-dxwgdcat-minutes
- 21:09:08 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- TOPIC: 2. Approve minutes from last meeting
- 21:09:16 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- +1
- 21:09:19 [SimonCox]
- 0
- 21:09:21 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- 0
- 21:09:24 [alejandra]
- +q
- 21:09:34 [SimonCox]
- ack alejandra
- 21:09:40 [DaveBrowning]
- +1
- 21:09:58 [alejandra]
- +1 (after adding Simon regret's)
- 21:09:59 [SimonCox]
- ad regrets from SImon to last week's minutes ...
- 21:10:05 [Makx]
- 0 (wasn't there)
- 21:10:11 [PWinstanley]
- s/ad/add/
- 21:10:11 [PWinstanley]
- +1
- 21:11:01 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: there was an implicit action on everyone regarding the revision of tags on the issues on GitHub
- 21:11:16 [PWinstanley]
- q+
- 21:11:30 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: I have revised the tags on a couple of issues
- 21:11:54 [NicholasCar]
- q+
- 21:12:02 [AndreaPerego]
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- 21:12:12 [AndreaPerego]
- present+ AndreaPerego
- 21:12:32 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:12:36 [alejandra]
- q+
- 21:12:38 [SimonCox]
- ack PWinstanley
- 21:13:33 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: the tags on the issues were inherited from the use cases in the UCR document, not from the requirements. Hence, the need for revising them.
- 21:13:49 [SimonCox]
- ack NicholasCar
- 21:14:36 [SimonCox]
- ack alejandra
- 21:14:41 [arminhaller]
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- 21:14:49 [arminhaller]
- present+
- 21:15:07 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- PWinstanley: the other sub-groups are looking at their own tags only
- 21:15:56 [PWinstanley]
- s/their own tags only/their tags too, and so we should harmonise at some point/
- 21:16:36 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- NickolasCar and alejandra: have changed some tags and made corresponding comments on the issues
- 21:16:40 [AndreaPerego]
- trackbot, associate this channel with #dxwg
- 21:17:09 [alejandra]
- +q to make a proposal about the labels
- 21:17:42 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: There is a risk of loosing traceability. At the same time, I am concerned about the processing getting too heavy.
- 21:17:50 [SimonCox]
- ack alejandra
- 21:17:50 [Zakim]
- alejandra, you wanted to make a proposal about the labels
- 21:19:04 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- Alejandra: I propose to never remove tags that correspond to the classifiation of the requirements, but tags inherited from the use cases could be removed.
- 21:19:18 [SimonCox]
- Proposed: ok to remove labels that were only inherited from UCs
- 21:19:28 [alejandra]
- and if someone has an objection, they can discuss on the issue
- 21:19:36 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:19:53 [SimonCox]
- +1
- 21:19:56 [DaveBrowning]
- +1
- 21:20:05 [alejandra]
- +1
- 21:20:06 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- +1
- 21:20:06 [AndreaPerego]
- +1
- 21:20:07 [PWinstanley]
- +1
- 21:20:12 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- +1
- 21:20:12 [Makx]
- +1
- 21:20:26 [arminhaller]
- +1
- 21:21:07 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- RESOLVED: ok to remove labels that were only inherited from UCs
- 21:21:55 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- yes
- 21:22:23 [PWinstanley]
- no progress yet
- 21:22:41 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- q+
- 21:22:42 [PWinstanley]
- ... for me
- 21:22:50 [DaveBrowning]
- Will get it done this week
- 21:22:50 [alejandra]
- +q
- 21:23:00 [SimonCox]
- ack RiccardoAlbertoni_
- 21:23:19 [arminhaller]
- had some issues around the process, there weren't any to remove, but maybe some to add, but now the process is clear
- 21:23:32 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rd5bR3lem6gsurR70e6oduuQb8VoQY2-AoBeqHKn9Ls/edit#gid=0
- 21:23:41 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: In the previous meeting Arminhaller, AndreaPerego, PWinstanley, and RiccardoAlbertoni_ agreed to each look at a number of issues and review them.
- 21:24:06 [AndreaPerego]
- s/AndreaPerego, //
- 21:24:38 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- TOPIC: 4.2 Review DCAT requirements
- 21:25:38 [SimonCox]
- ack alejandra
- 21:25:39 [DaveBrowning]
- a/PWinstanley/PWinstanley, DaveBrowning, /
- 21:26:45 [alejandra]
- Idenfication: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/labels/identification
- 21:28:03 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- RiccardoAlbertoni_: will submit his proposals for relabelling via the GitHub issues
- 21:29:41 [DaveBrowning]
- q+
- 21:29:41 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: brings up the agenda point: Associate requirements with existing DCAT classes or properties, where possible
- 21:30:28 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- present+ JaroslavPullmann
- 21:30:43 [alejandra]
- s/Idenfication/Identification
- 21:30:52 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
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- 21:31:17 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- JaroslavPullmann: proposes that the relevant dcat properties become tags in the GitHub issue tracker
- 21:31:20 [arminhaller]
- +1
- 21:31:22 [alejandra]
- +1
- 21:31:24 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- +1
- 21:31:24 [SimonCox]
- +1
- 21:31:26 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
- present+
- 21:31:32 [PWinstanley]
- +1
- 21:31:33 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- +1
- 21:31:34 [DaveBrowning]
- +1
- 21:31:35 [AndreaPerego]
- q+
- 21:31:36 [arminhaller]
- s/properties/terms
- 21:31:38 [Makx]
- +1
- 21:31:59 [SimonCox]
- https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/labels
- 21:32:14 [alejandra]
- I can do that
- 21:32:42 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- RESOLUTION: the relevant dcat terms will be used as tags in the GitHub issue tracker
- 21:32:42 [DaveBrowning]
- q?
- 21:32:53 [SimonCox]
- ack DaveBrowning
- 21:34:10 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:34:16 [SimonCox]
- ack AndreaPerego
- 21:35:37 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- DaveBrowning: Agrees that a tag for issues for which the related dcat term is unclear or inexistent can be invented later
- 21:36:01 [alejandra]
- +q
- 21:36:42 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- AndreaPerego: points out that it some cases, the resolution of an issue can be not to change the current DCAT vocabulary
- 21:38:30 [alejandra]
- q?
- 21:38:45 [SimonCox]
- ack alejandra
- 21:40:37 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: Refers to the use of requests related to issues on github
- 21:41:11 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- TOPIC: 4.1 Methodology for DCAT revision: principles
- 21:41:56 [alejandra]
- I created the labels for all the classes referenced in the DCAT vocabulary (https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/): https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/labels
- 21:42:52 [alejandra]
- foaf:Person and foaf:Organization
- 21:43:46 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: The original design principles about how to construct the DCAT vocabulary, included strong dependencies with DC-TERMS and less strong on SKOS, and weaker on FOAF. No other vocubularies.
- 21:44:46 [alejandra]
- just adding to the minutes what I said before: last week I shared my screen and we went through Github looking at the issues, labels, Pull Request and review process
- 21:45:01 [alejandra]
- we agreed that the Pull Request needs further discussion
- 21:45:16 [NicholasCar]
- q+
- 21:45:18 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: There is no relationship with PROV in the current DCAT, now there is an opportunity (or risk) to satisfy some of the requirements with a more formal alignment with PROV.
- 21:45:40 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:45:42 [AndreaPerego]
- q+
- 21:45:44 [SimonCox]
- ack NicholasCar
- 21:47:09 [PWinstanley]
- +1 to Nic's endurant/perdurant comment
- 21:47:14 [SimonCox]
- ack AndreaPerego
- 21:47:33 [arminhaller]
- +1 that we need the explicit distinction of entities and activities in dcat
- 21:47:34 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- NicholasCar: From his experience this would not cause problems. It may be needed to state explicitly that a dcat:Dataset is not a temporal thing.
- 21:47:35 [alejandra]
- +1 to the comment and there are requirements related to the temporal aspects
- 21:48:08 [SimonCox]
- also see discussion here: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/pull/94
- 21:48:33 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:48:51 [SimonCox]
- AndreaPerego: what does QB do relating to DCAT/PROV ?
- 21:49:14 [NicholasCar]
- q+
- 21:49:25 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:49:35 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- AndreaPerego: He is unsure to explicitly include subclassing in DCAT. We could followg the approach taken in RDF-DataCube, where no sub-classing of prov:Entity is needed.
- 21:50:41 [SimonCox]
- ack NicholasCar
- 21:50:41 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- AndreaPerego: One of the successes of DCAT is that its semantics were loose. Not binding dcat with strong axioms makes it more broadly usable.
- 21:51:14 [SimonCox]
- q+
- 21:52:31 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- q+
- 21:52:32 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:52:36 [alejandra]
- +1
- 21:52:42 [SimonCox]
- ack SimonCox
- 21:52:59 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- NicholasCar: Reasoning is not being used much (e.g. domain/range inference). Nonetheless it is still useful behind the scene. Also the way PROV works can be beneficial to DCAT.
- 21:54:11 [arminhaller]
- q+
- 21:54:23 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: I hear both sides: not tying things down on the other hand sub-classing from prov:Entity might even not be noticed by people not caring about inference.
- 21:54:24 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- q-
- 21:54:42 [AndreaPerego]
- q+
- 21:54:46 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:54:52 [SimonCox]
- ack arm
- 21:54:55 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: Nonetheless, there already are domain and range restrictions in DCAT (e.g. via DC-TERMS); so the current DCAT is not entirely innocent in this regard.
- 21:54:55 [SimonCox]
- ack arminhaller
- 21:55:47 [SimonCox]
- ack AndreaPerego
- 21:55:57 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- ArminHaller: sub-classing is actually easier to handle than domain/range or inverse properties
- 21:56:22 [arminhaller]
- s/or inverse properties/
- 21:56:44 [arminhaller]
- s/sub-classing/sub-classing and inverse properties
- 21:57:01 [SimonCox]
- q?
- 21:57:34 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- AndreaPerego: I agree there already are domain/range restrictions. And we already have problems with it. For example, dcat:contactPoint is linked to vCard:Kind, which cannot be linked directly to an organisation.
- 21:57:59 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- AndreaPerego: rather than using OWL, we could use other means such as SHACL
- 21:58:46 [AndreaPerego]
- q+ to ask if we can briefly discuss this comment of mine: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/76#issuecomment-359124922
- 21:58:46 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: happy to have had some time to open this discussion
- 21:59:06 [NicholasCar]
- Use of SHACL would introduce further commitment, not just to an ontology but to an ontology+system
- 22:00:02 [AndreaPerego]
- Agreed. But this might be required to ensure a consistent use of PROV and facilitate interoperability.
- 22:00:29 [SimonCox]
- ack AndreaPerego
- 22:00:29 [Zakim]
- AndreaPerego, you wanted to ask if we can briefly discuss this comment of mine: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/76#issuecomment-359124922
- 22:00:45 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: invites everyone to go through the issues on GitHub in the coming week
- 22:01:47 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- AndreaPerego: brings up the point on relaxing the range restriction on dcat:contactPoint
- 22:02:09 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- SimonCox: suggests AndreaPerego to create a pull request for this
- 22:03:03 [RiccardoAlbertoni_]
- thanks, bye
- 22:03:06 [AndreaPerego]
- Bye!
- 22:03:11 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
- bye
- 22:03:13 [alejandra]
- I suggested to split the issue into more granular issues
- 22:03:16 [Jaroslav_Pullmann]
- present-
- 22:03:32 [alejandra]
- I'm referring to the issue: https://github.com/w3c/dxwg/issues/76
- 22:03:36 [Stijn_Goedertier_AIV]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 22:03:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html Stijn_Goedertier_AIV
- 22:03:36 [SimonCox]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 22:03:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox
- 22:03:47 [alejandra]
- there could be a more specific issue for the agent roles
- 22:03:53 [AndreaPerego]
- Agreed, alejandra.
- 22:04:07 [alejandra]
- thanks - wanted to make sure it is in the minutes
- 22:04:20 [alejandra]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 22:04:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html alejandra
- 22:05:02 [AndreaPerego]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/2017/dxwg/wiki/Meetings:DCAT-Telecon2018.01.31
- 22:05:17 [AndreaPerego]
- meeting: DXWG DCAT subgroup teleconference
- 22:05:31 [AndreaPerego]
- chair: SimonCox
- 22:06:04 [SimonCox]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 22:06:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html SimonCox
- 22:07:35 [AndreaPerego]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
- 22:07:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2018/01/31-dxwgdcat-minutes.html AndreaPerego