13:57:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
13:57:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/10/26-lvtf-irc
13:57:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:58:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:58:00 <trackbot> Date: 26 October 2017
13:58:16 <allanj> regrets: Glenda, Alastair
14:33:58 <allanj> Agenda+ Review Hover Understanding
14:34:11 <allanj> zakim, clear agenda
14:34:11 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:34:17 <allanj> agenda?
14:34:25 <allanj> Agenda+ Review Hover Understanding
14:34:51 <allanj> Agenda+ techniques for 1.4.10, 1.4.13, 1.4.14
14:35:06 <allanj> Agenda+ Conformance testing - exit criteria for WCAG2.1
14:35:36 <allanj> Agenda+ Review Understanding Zoom Content
14:56:13 <scott> scott has joined #lvtf
14:57:43 <shawn> present: Shawn, Jim, JohnRochford, ScottM
14:58:47 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #lvtf
14:59:14 <allanj> http://blog.freedomscientific.com/2017/10/25/important-information-for-users-of-mozilla-firefox/
15:00:56 <laura> laura has joined #lvtf
15:03:20 <shawn> :-)
15:03:28 <shawn> present+ Erich, Laura
15:03:32 <laura> present+ Laura
15:05:37 <erich> erich has joined #lvtf
15:07:10 <erich> test
15:07:22 <erich> Scribe: erich
15:07:48 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
15:07:48 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:07:49 <Zakim> 1. Review Hover Understanding [from allanj]
15:07:49 <Zakim> 2. techniques for 1.4.10, 1.4.13, 1.4.14 [from allanj]
15:07:49 <Zakim> 3. Conformance testing - exit criteria for WCAG2.1 [from allanj]
15:07:49 <Zakim> 4. Review Understanding Zoom Content [from allanj]
15:07:59 <erich> zakim, who is on?
15:08:00 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, erich.
15:08:26 <allanj> zakim, open item 2
15:08:26 <Zakim> agendum 2. "techniques for 1.4.10, 1.4.13, 1.4.14" taken up [from allanj]
15:08:31 <erich> zakim, who is present?
15:08:31 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, erich.
15:08:33 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:33 <Zakim> Present: Shawn, Jim, JohnRochford, ScottM, Erich, Laura
15:09:11 <laura> Proposed WCAG 2.1 SC Techniques: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Proposed_WCAG_2.1_SC_Techniques
15:10:37 <laura> Allowing for Spacing Override: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Allowing_for_Spacing_Override
15:11:09 <allanj> Jim will add review techniques to next week agenda
15:11:24 <allanj> zakim, next item
15:11:24 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, allanj
15:11:35 <shawn> q?
15:11:41 <shawn> q- Glenda
15:12:05 <shawn> present+ SteveRep
15:12:14 <erich> present+ steve
15:13:15 <steverep> steverep has joined #lvtf
15:13:23 <allanj> zakim, open item 1
15:13:23 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Review Hover Understanding" taken up [from allanj]
15:13:24 <steverep> present+steverep
15:13:33 <laura> Understanding Content on Hover or Focus: https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/content-on-hover-or-focus/understanding/21/content-on-hover-or-focus.html
15:14:44 <laura> All of the understanding docs are linked from: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Accepted_WCAG_2.1_SC
15:15:28 <erich> SR: I broke up the 3 different conditions. SC has morphed from original.
15:16:15 <erich> SR: Components portion was removed, seemingly for overlap with 2.1.1
15:16:53 <erich> SR: Would like to propose a change to make things clearer
15:17:32 <erich> SR: Second bullet about Hover can stay the same, but would propose changing to make the new content Hoverable
15:18:30 <erich> SR: Also on last bullet, propose removing bit about focus and make it about persistence to reduce overlap with 2.1.1
15:21:23 <erich> JA: Suggests adding pictures
15:22:42 <erich> SR: Plans to use tool-tip example and another example with larger target and other with content over the top of it
15:23:13 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_On_Hover
15:23:45 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_On_Hover#Div_on_Hover_Obscuring_Content_Example
15:26:49 <erich> JA: any specific websites as bad examples?
15:28:04 <erich> SR: Suggests gmail as possible example of tooltips that are not hoverable
15:29:04 <erich> JA: Suggests taking offline following the AG call
15:29:23 <allanj> jim - review Understanding Hover next week
15:30:03 <allanj> zakim, next item
15:30:03 <Zakim> agendum 2. "techniques for 1.4.10, 1.4.13, 1.4.14" taken up [from allanj]
15:30:12 <allanj> close item 1
15:30:17 <allanj> close item 2
15:31:04 <allanj> At least 5 conforming Web sites 1 are available, of which
15:31:17 <allanj> At least four conform at level AA,
15:31:28 <allanj> At least one conforms at level AAA
15:31:35 <erich> JA: For conformance testing, AG would like at least 5 conforming websites, of which 4 are AA and at least 1 AAA
15:31:54 <erich> JA: Anyone know of any AAA conformant websites?
15:32:08 <erich> LC: Lainey Feingold's website
15:32:09 <shawn> AAA http://www.lflegal.com/
15:32:14 <allanj> At least two implementations 2 exist for each success criterion added in WCAG 2.1 (Success Criteria from WCAG 2.0 do not need new implementations);
15:34:54 <allanj> Accessibility support documentation for SC with platform/user agent/assistive technology dependencies is available for at least two technologies with at least four platforms (operating system/user agent/assistive technology combinations
15:35:22 <erich> JA: Wonder if SVG counts, or considered part of HTML
15:35:35 <laura> CR Exit Criteria from Tuesday’s AG meeting: https://www.w3.org/2017/10/24-ag-minutes.html#item05
15:35:47 <allanj> All sufficient techniques listed in Understanding WCAG 2.0 at the end of the Candidate Recommendation period contain test procedures
15:36:35 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Allowing_for_Spacing_Override
15:36:46 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Allowing_for_Spacing_Override#Tests
15:36:58 <allanj> The Working Group has responded formally to all issues raised against this document related to any implementation efforts during the Candidate Recommendation period.
15:37:42 <laura> Open 2.1 GitHub Issues Labeled "LVTF”: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/labels/LVTF
15:37:50 <erich> JA: AG group has been voting on proposed responses, I will include some in next week's agenda
15:40:12 <erich> JA: Who will be at TPAC?
15:40:46 <allanj> Shawn, Scott, Glenda, Alastair
15:40:49 <erich> SM: I may go, believe it's in San Francisco
15:41:03 <erich> JA: Glenda and Alastair will go
15:41:16 <erich> SR: Will join virtually as much as I can
15:41:25 <erich> LC: Same for me
15:41:32 <allanj> there will also be phone bridge available. Jim, Laura, Steve on phone
15:42:03 <allanj> zakim, close item 3
15:42:03 <Zakim> agendum 3, Conformance testing - exit criteria for WCAG2.1, closed
15:42:04 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:42:04 <Zakim> 4. Review Understanding Zoom Content [from allanj]
15:42:20 <allanj> http://www.tsbvi.edu/understanding%20zoom.html
15:43:38 <erich> JA: Would like to emphasize the evils of horizontal scrolling in the intent
15:44:12 <allanj> make sure Wayne;s article is in the resources section
15:45:12 <erich> JA: I added another picture and may include some of Wayne's graphics in there to help illustrate
15:46:18 <erich> JA: Are there other features others can think of to help illustrate for Zoom Content?
15:48:06 <erich> JA: Unable to locate any comparison numbers on low-vision magnification vs. screen-reader users
15:52:36 <shawn> Scrolling http://www.tader.info/scrolling.html To see Comments, click the "Show" button
15:53:41 <shawn> "I am currently using Zoomtext at 4x magnification and moving the screen back and forth to read a long sentence makes me nauseous/sea-sick."
15:53:59 <shawn> "Magnification disorients me and makes it worse. I use very large print and zoom in with web browsers instead."
15:55:12 <shawn> How important is it to be able to change the following:... No horizontal scrolling  -- Very important 65%; Important 22%
15:55:44 <shawn> "People who use screen magnification I've user-tested sites with have been very much hindered by having to horizontally scroll in magnified views"
15:57:41 <allanj> caveat web aim demographics not representative to VI population ... WHO data
15:58:37 <erich> JA: Ending to go to AG meeting. Will have Steve and Understanding Zoom on agenda for next week
15:58:48 <laura> bye
15:58:53 <erich> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/26-lvtf-minutes.html erich
16:00:46 <scott> scott has left #lvtf
16:26:19 <allanj> shawn
16:26:39 <allanj> do i need to be registered to use the phone during tpac?
16:27:34 <allanj> Also, since we have a meeting should come up with an agenda.
16:27:40 <allanj> next week
17:39:57 <allanj> persistence - picture of labels in github with mouse pointer, the pic after escape showing mouse pointer still there.
17:41:19 <allanj> hover gmail hover button so pointer covers the tooltip, another pic of pointer on tooltip but not obscuring content. use ZT pointer