See also: IRC log
<Allanj> Age d
<scribe> scribe: JohnRochford
Jim: Lots of hours spent
discussing the word "essential".
... Alistar says defining "visual indicators" is a good
start.
<Glenda> This is the note defining visual identifier - Examples of essential visual identifiers of user interface components may include (a border, edge, or icon), current value (such as non-text visual indication of aria-valuenow on a slider) and current state (such as selection indicator, focus indicator) or other essential visual indication (which do not rely on color alone).
<Glenda> essential non-text visual identifiers of user interface components
Glenda: If the non-text visual identifier is removed, nobody would know what the component is.
<alastairc> Perhaps start with: Visual identifiers of user interface components are indicators that it is interactive, examples include...
<Glenda> just drop the word “essential” becuase to be a visual identifier…is saying it is essential.
<Glenda> non-text visual identifiers of user interface components
Alastair: A user interface component could have a border around a pen symbol, for example.
to indicate it's a button
Glenda: contrast is in the complete control of the visual-identifier creator
<Allanj_> Drop in a link please
Alistair: Icons do not have to be interactive.
<laura> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/graphics-contrast/understanding/21/graphics-contrast.html
<alastairc> My latest understanding doc can be previewed here: https://alastairc.ac/tmp/graphics-contrast.html
<alastairc> I've got some graphics in that version.
Jim: Do we have to lay out such as on hover rather than just have a border?
Glenda: Yes, it's not just a border.
<laura> All Understanding docs linked from: Accepted WCAG 2.1 SC: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Accepted_WCAG_2.1_SC
<alastairc> suggest adding a background? or is that what creates the edge?
Glenda: Examples of visual indicators include a border, and an edge, and current state, such as a selection or a focus indicator.
Alistair and Glenda: A background indicates an edge.
Glenda: When we say "the edge", I
think we should explain it in the understanding doc.
... By default, the natives are controlled by HTML, CSS, and
the browser.
... Is the term "visual identifiers" strong enough?
Alistair: Do we worry about an image with strong attributes on only one side?
attributes, such as contrast
Glenda: We handled that with a 3-pixel border on the bottom.
<laura> http://www.glendathegood.com/a11y/lvtf/textinputborder.html
<Allanj> If i create a custom radio buttio
Glenda: I will add an example of good contrast only on one side, and poor contrast on the other 3 sides.
Laura: What if the thick border was on the top?
Glenda: Developers can do that,
and it would technically pass, but it would have to go through
usability with all humans .
... The SC does not require that the visual affordance
exists.
<laura> http://www.glendathegood.com/a11y/lvtf/submitbuttonborder.html
<Allanj> if i create a custom radio button... it is two graphics ckecked and unchecked... falls to alastair. The indicator that it has focus and was changed is glenda?
Alistair: The contrast of the graphics would fall to me, yes.
Glenda: Should we separate graphics that are image files from those created by HTML and CSS?
Alistair: It's the concept, not the technology, which is good.
<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/181
<shawn> AlastairC will reply that these are addressed in the Understanding Doc
<Allanj> We need to present the expert statements again from emails.
Alistairc: Jared Smith says the research is old about the displays that we use.
Alaistairc: Perhaps we put them in a Wiki?
Alaistair: I think the graphics and explanations in the understanding will "go a long way".
<Allanj> Will put on wiki . From gordon legge and agustus at smith kettlewell
I apologize, Alastairc, for my misspellings of your name.
<shawn> ACTION: Jim put expert statements related to contrast on wiki page for reference -- From gordon legge and agustus at smith kettlewell [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/10/12-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Put expert statements related to contrast on wiki page for reference -- from gordon legge and agustus at smith kettlewell [on Jim Allan - due 2017-10-19].
<shawn> Alastair will comment on issue and point to wiki page
<Allanj> Icon font from steve
<Allanj> What can lvtf do to help
<Allanj> Def of icon font as non text
<alastairc> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Providing_a_Semantically_Identified_Icon_Font_with_role%3Dimg
Alastairc: As long as you have something to put role=image on, we should be good.
<shawn> work item is to get Laura's examples into Techniques
Laura & Alastairc: Speculating about techniques - after TPAC?
<shawn> and create links from Understanding to Techniques
<Allanj> /me end meeting?
<Allanj> Is issue 250 ready to close
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Accepted_WCAG_2.1_SC
Alastairc: I encourage everyone to read the understanding doc, which is recently updated.
the graphics-contrast understanding doc
<Allanj> Jim will ping steve about hover understanding. Zoom still needs work
<Allanj> Me
<Allanj> Need help. Will talk with ac
<Allanj> Apologies for poor cont
<Allanj> Bye
<laura> Bye
<shawn> Congrats for handling the massive amount of exchanges on these issues!
<shawn> trackbot, end meeting
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